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3:00 PM
did it not happen with ya Neoares?
 
I'm just saying they're easy to find and fix
 
I wonder if a temp tower would help debug my problems.
 
I recall a problem you had. The solution was fixing a variable name
 
easy to find and fix if caught before it's trashing data on production
 
^
 
3:00 PM
@KarelG which one
 
say i want to squash the last 10 commits into a single commit. i run into a problem because in those 10 last commits there are merge commits. and those seem to encompass other peoples commits. now, not only do i get merge conflict, but presumably, i'd be squashing other peoples commits into my one rebased/squashed commit.
 
we test so we don't release those that would have been easy to find and fix
 
every env higher (dev -> test -> prod), the cost of a bug increases 10x if I remember the pseudo-study right
 
each commits gets reviewed at our work. We use gerrit for that
 
kinda annoying
 
3:06 PM
Helps with typo'd variable names
 
that pic looks like the failure I'm getting
but that reason is not adhesion :/
that image and that problem don't match up
 
you mean the ripples on top?
 
yea
 
I had a similar issue due to, I think, over-extrusion and high heat
 
I am starting to think over extrusion ^ yea
 
3:07 PM
cutting flow and speed fixed it
or I cut flow and bumped speed a touch? idk
 
retraction speed or print speed?
 
ohh, like sharp walls along the direction of print? yea, i think that's over extrusion
 
it was no more than a 5-6% change in flow
 
my extrusion multiplier is already .9
so, I was not under the assumption it was too much
 
3:08 PM
@Luggage they were never especially sharp on mine. It looked like an amateur caulk job (i.e., when I've repaired things).
weird ripples as the print head (presumably) caught existing soft plastic on the hot end
it was worst with the sticky Tianse that kept jamming, too
 
I know my glass isn't perfectly flat. just need to get some replacements (soon)
 
care to explain why you forced me to make a joke, then suspend me for it?
 
does glass get worse over time? constant heating and cooling may warp it
 
if you heat it hot enough, but I don't think 60 is anywhere near close (I know very little about glass)
 
@rlemon Like in a dishwasher?
 
3:10 PM
@OliverSalzburg 3d printer
 
DO YOU WANT A WAR
 
@CoderCat you were suspended by flags, cast by 10k+ users
flags are shown to all users, even outside of this room, and voted on by the community
however, responding to your flag ban that way is not cool
 
So does that mean you do or do not want said war?
 
nobody forced you to make a joke, certainly not one that looked bad out-of-context
 
@Wes yeah it's getting better again
 
3:12 PM
I have the chat log here in black and white..
 
@CoderCat I had to chuckle reading that though with that avatar
that cat looks serious af
 
@rlemon Yeah, I meant, if the temperatures are in the range of what you get in a dishwasher, it's probably nothing to worry about
 
my methods are a little unauthadox @loktar
 
@OliverSalzburg maybe because it's flat
 
lol
 
3:13 PM
and not formed into any shapes
 
well I'm in the dark on the flag/joke thing, just think the avatar and statement are funny 😋
 
talking about cats
 
guys, how do you call those big storage silo's that you see in harbors
I cannot find its naming.
 
the chemical tanks?
 
3:14 PM
yeah I knew I'd get some nonsense about magic robots flagging me
 
if you don't want flags, don't flag bait. it's that simple
 
tell me, if I downvote, will I always get -1 points
always?
 
@KingTut On answers, yes
 
@KingTut downvotes on answers cost you, questions are free
 
if I am moderator then also?
 
3:14 PM
The key is to get the user to delete their post entirely, then it's free
@KingTut No, mods get +1 for downvoting
 
lel
 
So elections are underway
 
thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/… <-- those white ones at the bottom of the pic
 
I think they might still get the -1, but they all have enough rep that it doesn't matter
 
s/+1/+10
 
3:15 PM
@ssube see pic
 
You have got a potential candidate in me.
 
@KarelG Granary?
 
@KarelG yeah, that's what I was thinking of. I've always called them tanks, holding tanks maybe.
 
I dont have many points, so i become moderator and do downvoting and get all +1 and then when I am not moderator ill show my points and then i become moderator again its a cycle
 
I think those short skinny ones are usually petroleum-related chemicals
 
3:17 PM
@KarelG pretty sure they're still considered silos
silos don't have to hold grain, and can hold liquids (even at pressure)
 
@KingTut People who don't even know the scoring system rarely make for good moderators
 
@Oliver I promise to learn it when i become a mod.
 
@rlemon that was my thought too. But when googling "harbor silos" I get pictures of huge cylindrical constructions. Not those white ones
ah "chemical storage tank" yielded more accurate results
 
user9107868
LOL
 
3:18 PM
"fuel silo"
 
@KingTut Excellent. You're hired
 
Oh my god refreshing a chip-array over websocket is a pain in the ass
you have to restore every state
 
there's an industrial park somewhat nearby that has a bunch of those tanks full of lube
 
I'm never telling any jokes ever again
 
@Oliver You dont hire your king, you vote for him. This is democratic kingdom of SO.
 
user9107868
3:20 PM
Can I be a mod?
 
lol
 
its clearly against the imaginary rules :)
 
@KingTut tell that to china
 
@KingTut I love me some democratic monarchies
 
user9107868
@SterlingArcher you mean north korea?
 
3:20 PM
@rlemon look at this bullshit
 
@TheOneWhoMade Sure. You prefer mod 2 or mod 10?
 
I have to reload all that
 
@TheOneWhoMade No he meant china
 
user9107868
@Neil Mod as in Moderator.
 
shouldComponentUpdate will re-run on receiving props and state, right? Mine doesn't seem to be re-running :\
 
3:21 PM
@TheOneWhoMade china's president just declared himself dictator for life
 
  shouldComponentUpdate(props: Props, state: State) {
    if (!state.visible || props.scrolling) {
      return false;
    }
    return shallowCompare(this.props, props, this.state, state);
  }
 
user9107868
@KingTut ok.
 
@TheOneWhoMade Sheesh, you should be clearer then.
 
user9107868
@SterlingArcher oh. I don't read the news.
 
user9107868
@Neil I will try harder.
 
3:21 PM
"Im a mod, cause I have 10k and downvote stuff I don't like and 1% of the time, posts that are actually bad categorically!"
 
user9107868
@CoderCat you are not a true mod.
 
@ssube do you think under extrusion could also cause that? once the print is done I'll get some more detailed pics. but the edges look under extruded, the middle looks over.
 
I was speaking in like third person tho
 
user9107868
@CoderCat how do I know? Your name is not in blue.
 
ohhi
 
3:22 PM
ihho
 
you said "I". I thought that was first person.
 
because regardless of what you post somebody always downvotes it
 
Luggage thinks that was first person
 
@rlemon maybe? I don't know much about under-extrusion. It seemed like the hot-end smearing the plastic to me, but it might have been sticking to the end and not being laid correctly.
 
3:23 PM
1 min ago, by CoderCat
"Im a mod, cause I have 10k and downvote stuff I don't like and 1% of the time, posts that are actually bad categorically!"
haha
 
@CoderCat I wish I could downvote this comment
 
@CoderCat I don't understand what you're complaining about
 
and cause I've seen terrible posts get like 500+ upvotes
 
@CoderCat no
 
oh I had to do my hw for school
 
3:23 PM
im not complaining, just an observation
 
You're definitely complaining
 
@CoderCat you've been whining and trolling all morning, knock it off
 
Surprisingly i haven't downvoted any of your posts (yet)
 
user9107868
Nah prbably just the ones who trol.
 
@TheOneWhoMade protip: When an RO is in serious mode, don't do that
 
3:24 PM
:41697597 hopefully not, but you two have been making it a problem recently
 
user9107868
@SterlingArcher ask him later?
 
It's called stirring the pot and can quickly get you booted
 
lmao why is there mod special olympics in the chat at this hour lol
 
if you'd like to continue completely ignoring your myriad warnings, go ahead
 
I was not prepared
 
3:25 PM
A bit of a philosophical question.

What APIs do you think are better? Ones that change behavior by working on functions and decorating them or ones that work on the values ad-hoc?

Some examples from promises: `Promise.method` vs `Promise.try`, `Promise.coroutine` vs `Promise.spawn`, `new Promise` (or promisify and immediately calling) vs `promisify`. The principle applies to any API really though.

I feel like there is a _fundamentally true_ answer to "which is better" but I'm not sure what it is, and I feel that the question has a more correct representation.
 
> I have seen very similar issues on my Kossel before and I found that it was mainly due to the z height calibration at home position. One of the tests you can do to confirm this is to increase your first layer height thickness to the size of you nozzle. This should eliminate the bubbling but you DONT want to print with this setting...its just a test for confirmation.
 
user9107868
@ssube OK. Kicking myself.
 
@KamilSolecki Special mod olympics are objectively better than mod olympics
 
cc @ssube @Loktar
gonna try this
 
well now Im not sure what to talk about
 
3:25 PM
@CoderCat 3d printing
 
I prefer CNC'ing
 
@Benjamin You are such a noble person, Doesn't look like you belong here
7
 
i.... only use like one of those apis
 
@CoderCat Deviled eggs.
 
as long as they are multi purpose, like a drill, miller, etc in one
 
3:26 PM
Pizza
2
 
Boneless pizza
 
that's my new nickname
 
cheeseless
 
I had a sauceless pizza this weekend
 
man, I'm going to include a ficticious website in my portfolio, whatever
 
3:27 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum function-factories (promsifiy, esp) have always felt like a workaround to make up for flaws in the original API. Creating new functions seems like a hack, but has some useful performance implications.
 
I gave the guy a lot of time to come up with his texts for the website, now I'm just feeling I wasted my time with him, and I'll wait until it completes a month since he told me he'd get back to me with the texts
than wish him luck, and use the layout for demonstrational purposes
 
@IanC just finish it with lipsum
send the invoice
 
Don't forget the civil suit when he doesn't pay
 
@rlemon I think you mean, lopsum, sir. Don't give him that gibberish
 
@ssube in general?
@KingTut what? I've been here for 5 years
!!slidepoop
 
3:29 PM
Mar 13 '13 at 1:40, by rlemon
(Random Fact, when rlemon was 13 he pooped on a slide. he isn't proud of it, but he felt it was time to confess. I'm sorry slide.)
 
@KingTut ^ better?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Such nobility.
Such grace.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum there's no way you've only been here 5 years
 
@Neil I'm sad there isn't a lopsum lib that does something funny
 
@ssube like a hack?
 
3:29 PM
ive been here longer than 5 years
 
@SterlingArcher 2012-2013 I think, don't remember tbh
 
@Luggage just for the protocol
 
@SterlingArcher that's also not what he said
 
optimization:	{
		splitChunks:	{
			minSize:	4000
		}
	}
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum depends. Doing it at runtime seems especially hacky, decorators do not (despite being function factories).
 
3:30 PM
@jAndy where is this from?
@ssube I mean more generally, whether or not the "laziness" of actually executing the code should be in the function or not.
 
!!doge noble,majestic,grace
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum webpack 4.x
 
  wow
            very noble
                             such majestic
many grace
 
Do I tell it how to execute, or do I actually alter it executing
 
@rlemon @Cereal that would work, if I wasn't dumb.. it was my first job, I didn't ask 50% in advance (I had just been paid for another job, so I didn't think I'd need to ask for an advance, BIG MISTAKE), also no contract besides messages
 
3:30 PM
default minSize for chunking is 30kb, which is way too high IMO
 
My first starred message in here was Aug 29 '13
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum not totally sure what you mean
 
So it's safe to assume I've been here for almost 5 years
jesus christ what am i doing with my life
 
@IanC that's a shame. live and learn
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Generally speaking, when you pass a function, it's unexpected if it's called instantly.
 
3:31 PM
On the plus side, you have no obligation to continue working on it
 
So if he comes back in 2 months with the text you can tell him to jump off a cliff
 
@SterlingArcher ^
in your profile dude
 
@MadaraUchiha WDYM? Never used .filter?
 
@rlemon oh nice!
wow 2012
 
3:32 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Those are somewhat of an exception
 
So I joined here when I was 20?
 
@ssube It's hard to phrase (the problem is I'm pretty sure I don't know how to phrase it)
 
> 2014-12-29
 
@MadaraUchiha .sort .map?
 
Aside from a few selected "patterns", it's expected that when you pass a function, it's a callback that would be called by the function you passed, later.
 
3:32 PM
2011 for me.
 
A good example is actually LINQ vs JS array methods
 
so I've been in chat for 4 years already?
 
LINQ is lazy and JS array methods are strict
 
!!afk Ha! You have activated the Gypsy King Trap Card! youtube.com/watch?v=ql_OD7tU68c
 
o.O
 
3:32 PM
Comparator, Visitor, etc.
 
@Ikari didn't you just join like last week?
 
I used to think it's because JS is stupid, but it's not, strict execution is very important on its own
 
@SterlingArcher he's been like 4 other anime names
 
bye
 
user9107868
bye
 
3:33 PM
2011-08-25
 
Also, I used to think filter is just smarter than a for, but it's push and not pull based if not bound to an iterator like on JS
 
.signature.user-4332216 .username:after {
    content: ' (Saitama)';
}
ez
 
in PHP, Nov 9 '17 at 15:24, by SaitamaSama
@Naruto Umm.. if I had to remember, @Saitama => @Okabe => @Saitama => @Kaori => @SheiKYerBouti => @Saitama => @ToukaXKaneki => @SaitamaSama
 
maybe dark theme should allow you to add custom nicknames
... hrmmm
 
@rlemon @Cereal yeah, to be honest I think he is losing more than I'm, I still have the layout that I can use to show my work, but he is going to have to ask another person/company to do his website, and they'll charge A LOT more than I was asking. I'm trying to look on the bright side haha
 
user9107868
3:33 PM
@MadaraUchiha simulating a user?
 
well, next time, written contract and 50% advance
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I wish we had parameter annotations (not the precise word, but close) like C++'s const, but for const (or final) and to indicate if a function will be invoked immediately or deferred.
 
doesn't matter if I'm starting to work in the area now
 
@ssube and then again, LINQ being "lazy" like promisify lets it do really cool stuff
 
I only know 1 of those names lol
but lol @ SheiKYerBouti
 
3:35 PM
@ssube you mean when passing it in? I think if it's not obvious from an API then it's pretty problematic
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I generally think that laziness is good for a whole slew of things
 
;)
 
But strict execution is easier to grasp
 
@SterlingArcher just realized in your t-shirt it says "GOT DICK"
 
@MadaraUchiha I'm not sure, I pretty much lean towards hating laziness as magic now.
 
3:35 PM
@Neoares dude you got some watching to do
 
@MadaraUchiha laziness translates to non-obvious performance, it makes a ton of sense though in a lot of cases - the most obvious one being GC
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'm a big fan of waiting until the very last moment possible with most of the things I do in code
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum agreed, but those hints allow some nice compiler checks
 
laziness of execution, sanitation, validation, etc.
 
@Neoares I seem to remember that he had that avatar while showing off his github to an employer too
 
3:36 PM
Don't do it until you have to
 
most of which can be checked safely using only the return type
 
@MadaraUchiha why?
 
but having some semantic knowledge of const/async-ness could be useful
 
@Cereal wait isnt archers' gh his face
 
I'm a fan of doing that when writing code, but not sure about executing it
 
3:37 PM
Pretty sure it used to be that avatar
@SterlingArcher Confirm!
 
@Neoares yeah and it came up in an interview too
highly awkward
 
Ah that was it
 
@ssube I used to hate SynchronizationContexts in C#, but if there was a way for me to prohibit a function from doing any I/O I'd really like it.
 
@SterlingArcher lmao please backstory
 
@MadaraUchiha how do you load the CSS?
 
3:37 PM
 
weeb
 
weeb weeb
 
did you just fucking make me open anime
 
user1596138
pleeb
 
@SterlingArcher weeb
 
3:38 PM
!!afk vape
 
@SterlingArcher even better, he made you think it was some archer stuff, but sent anime
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Because you'll often find that you need the data before it underwent processing
 
@Neoares it actually has archer though ;)
 
If you've prematurely escaped for HTML, for example, you'll get &nbsp;s in your JSON
 
madara, do you use greasemonkey to load the CSS rule?
 
3:40 PM
If you prematurely validate for SQL, you get people like me who can't enter their actual name in any governmental system.
 
I thought it was only for JS
 
@Neoares Stylish
 
thanks
 
You want your higher levels to talk in high level language for as long as possible
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum yeah, that sort of annotation is very relevant for test/lint/static analysis tools.
 
3:41 PM
@MadaraUchiha then process it when you need it, not lazily - that's not the same thing
 
are you familiar with how C++'s const applies to methods?
 
Me? Yeah, I teach C++
 
that keyword might be my favorite part of the language
 
@MadaraUchiha well that's annoying. user-popup widget doesn't contain a href for the user profile when it opens.
 
being able to mark a method as const, meaning it won't mutate the object it's called against
 
3:41 PM
C++ is deterministic though as a design goal
 
it gets populated later
 
Also, C++ has the whole value/reference semantics fun thing
 
yeah, that part is less good
 
@ssube yeah, although it totally can - it's just a marking
I actually think values are a really powerful concept, but I think C++ is really complicated in its handling
 
it can, but it has to jump through some hoops (C++ can't outright prevent much of anything)
 
3:42 PM
Swift is nicer in that regard
 
point is, it allows the compiler to do some common-sense checks and potentially optimize
it sets expectations and I'm all about annotating code to make those explicit
 
I took a class on swift after I got laid off from RAINN
it was fun, but i didn't finish it because I had too many interviews
 
@ssube yeah, it helps with warnings for sure
 
guys omg, I'm just 4 orders from my milestone I set myself almost 2 years ago
 
@ssube You can write a decorator that verifies it in JS in runtime, or in compile type with an ESLint plugin for obvious cases, and have it not run in prod - that could be nice
 
3:45 PM
I should chug a bottle of champagne today
 
4 orders of what
 
why
 
@SterlingArcher of lamps, duh
 
I can buy you a lamp
send link
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum you can verify at runtime, but that's not always necessary. I'd like to annotate the function so V8 can optimize for my expected use. If that happens to be wrong, I'd rather have it de-opt the function than throw, but maybe that could be use "optimized;"
I like the way seamless-immutable enforces immutability, on that note
 
3:46 PM
@ssube V8 does this all the time
 
I expect it does, it's a shame there isn't a good way for me to signal what I expect, preferably something TS can see and check.
 
oh yeah that sounds like a cool feature
 
Speaking of immutability, has anyone checked out Immer? It looks like a really nice way of handling immutability, but it seems pretty niche.
 
@Retsam niche enough to produce code obscurity
 
3:51 PM
@Retsam Immer is pretty cool
I played with it, it's nice, it's by Michel who wrote MobX
 
user9107868
So I would like to pull a bit on the seemingly infinite knowledge of the JS room. The issue is that my AI can't save its state. I have to re-teach it that "A" is different from "B" every time I boot it up. It has access to both the learning prompt and target. I would prefer something that requires the user to take action.
Enviroment: Two arrays representing two phrases. These could be made into CSV.
 
It's a pretty simple lib, I'd use it in favor of ImmutableJS
 
I was gonna say, it looks like the base of mobx
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Oh neat, I didn't realize that.
 
@TheOneWhoMade do you not store your weights........?
 
3:52 PM
that's definitely the way to do immutability (make it explicit but straight forward), the way Immutable tried was awful
 
user9107868
@KamilSolecki no, I am using synaptic.js, which enables you to make a network on a nueron by neuron scale.
 
@SterlingArcher is this the ducks one?
 
it's the ducks one
 
@TheOneWhoMade where do you want to save it?
 
the ducks one it is.
 
user9107868
3:53 PM
@ssube locally.
 
@ssube I think the problem isn't really the way Immutable does it - I think the problem is that there is bad tooling
 
@TheOneWhoMade sure, but that is irrelevant to storing your weights.
 
user9107868
@KamilSolecki IDK the weights. Those are done automatically.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum eh, I think tooling makes it worse, but immutable takes existing APIs and changes the behavior people expect.
 
train network -> read weights (network state) -> store them.
On initialization, read them in.

@TheOneWhoMade
 
3:54 PM
Making a set of new operators (or operator-like functions) makes it easier to think about
 
user9107868
@KamilSolecki the point is, If I know all data that has been used to train to a certain point, can I save it to a CSV?
 
@ssube if there was a way to communicate it (like C++ const) then it'd be nice
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum There definitely is a problem with the way Immutable does it.
 
@ssube that goes back to my earlier API question, composing changes
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum exactly :D
 
3:55 PM
@MadaraUchiha why?
 
You interweave your, what is essentially, new syntax all over the code
 
I get that you dislike ImmutableJS, but are you sure you don't really just dislike laziness (non-strictness), redux and bad tools?
 
Making sure that you can never get rid of it in the future, should you want to.
 
That's true for any data structure library you use, Facebook didn't build ImmutableJS for React
 
You suddenly have it on all of your abstraction levels
 
3:56 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum yeah. I'm not a big fan of how Go and Python use functions for things like len, but it sure is easy to reason about.
 
user9107868
@KamilSolecki How do I get the weights? Can't I just save what data has been used to train from this point and just retrain?
 
If you need an immutable SortedSet then Immutable can be nice for that
 
From the topmost, to the lowest leaves.
 
@MadaraUchiha and then it starts leaking :(
 
@ssube len is magic though in Python, I don't think it solves anything
 
3:56 PM
@TheOneWhoMade 1. Why 2. Not every training on the same dataset will yield same results
 
my biggest complaint with immutable was that every consumer needs to know about it
 
@MadaraUchiha that's a problem with immutable state for driving frontend react apps, it's not a problem with ImmutableJS
 
why would you retrain your network every time, that is just stupid
 
user9107868
@KamilSolecki hm. I will get the code to you this evening.
 
I dont need your code
 
3:57 PM
If you want an immutable data structure and utilize structural sharing, ImmutableJS can be fine for that - except the tooling isn't great
 
Your approach is wrong
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum It's a problem with ImmutableJS because now you are forced into this DSL you have to use everywhere
 
user9107868
@KamilSolecki could I stringify the network?
 
It's not just react apps, everywhere you use it, you pass those objects around, then your lower levels have to use it as well.
 
@MadaraUchiha I don't know if I would call immutable a DSL, it's mostly just ugly callbacks
 
3:58 PM
Of course, you could .toJS()
But that's less efficient than DOM manipulation
 
it is a nasty layer of (undocumented) abstraction
 
@MadaraUchiha no, you only have to use it where you want immutable data, your PoV is very React and FE centered.
 
and the behavior for .toJS alone has cost me days of head-desking
 
@MadaraUchiha think an isolated module that holds immutable state and works with it - and it's not global state - that doesn't have that problem.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum eh, I would argue that it leaks so heavily, you end up having to use it everywhere.
otherwise you're constantly re-mutable-izing your data to prevent everything else from breaking
 
3:59 PM
@ssube modules and subsystems can keep immutable state without it being global app state
 
@TheOneWhoMade dunno what your library has, but use whatever it provides to store the network state (weights and their corresponding neurons, so you know where to assign them) and initialize your network with that
 

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