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user406009
9:00 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Have you tried Rust? It's a very good functional C++ alternative.
 
@ElimGarak My ideas are more in line with social democracy, although I'm starting to gravitate towards social liberalism.
 
@Griwes There are not many pros to being smart. Stupid people sleep better at night.
 
@ElimGarak He's like one of the only ones here to have a sane view about people and the world.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I know, I know. I am just messing with you. You're awesome.
 
@Lalaland not yet. I know that it exists, of course.
 
9:01 PM
Etienne is our very own pony. All happy and positive and stuff. I'd like to be more like him, but I don't like people.
 
@Lalaland I wouldn't go that far
 
@Lalaland "C++ alternative" - ha!
 
user406009
@melak47 ? Which part of my statement "went too far"?
 
Also, if it isn't apparent, I am just messing with you @BartekBanachewicz. Haskell is cool. Although, it's got a long way to go.
 
22 secs ago, by unordered_meow
@Lalaland "C++ alternative" - ha!
 
9:02 PM
Maybe alternative to C, or Go, but not C++
 
user406009
@unordered_meow What features is it missing?
 
Now I feel like Erlanging something.
 
@ElimGarak I happen to know that.
 
You're smart about stupid, then!
 
user406009
(Other than binding to C++ libraries, that applies to all non-c++ languages)
 
9:04 PM
@EtiennedeMartel But hey, I could be one! Though I guess the Catch-22 situation of me quite often considering the possibility that I indeed am one somewhat eliminates that possibility.
Somewhat.
 
Here's the thing. You don't know most people. So you can't say most people are stupid, unless you consider yourself to be so smart that most people will have to fall below you by definition. So saying "most people are stupid" is either a broad generalization or a sign that you're a narcissistic prick.
 
Preach it!
 
Why not both?
 
Be nice, guys! <3
 
@Griwes Because we only allow one such pricks and it's Bartek.
 
9:07 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Of course it's a generalization; I haven't met all the people in the world so I can't really tell.
 
shit, wrong.
@EtiennedeMartel ahahah
 
But I have these things called eyes and ears that make me see morons all around me.
 
(He's not a prick. He's a bit selfish, but not a prick)
 
And actually smart people are few and rare.
 
I have the opposite experience, so maybe it's a Polish thing.
 
9:08 PM
I try not to think about people at all, and if I do, it's only positive. I accept what they say as the truth if it doesn't impact me, until proven otherwise.
 
No; it also includes some Fins and some Chinese and some guys from India.
 
user1804599
MGS V is nice.
 
Plus a bit of the C++ community.
 
user406009
@melak47 I guess I'll ask you the same question. What features is Rust missing relative to C++?
 
If I don't know someone, then I can't judge well enough if they're stupid or not.
 
9:09 PM
Granted it's not a terribly diversified test group, but still.
@EtiennedeMartel It's usually visible the second they speak.
 
I could jump to conclusion and slam that person as an idiot based on a very short and highly prejudiced overview, and while that would make feel better as a person, it would also make me an asshole.
 
Sometimes that needs to be adjusted over time, but usually it works.
 
@Lalaland what I didn't like was no compile time anything. No non-type generic parameters. Want a vector of fixed size 4? write a stupid macro. yes macros aren't as bad as C preprocessor, but still bleh.
 
And I don't want to be an asshole.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Great; I'm an asshole then.
A smart asshole.
Whatever.
 
Ell
9:11 PM
It's not being an asshole
 
I don't really care; I've grown insensitive to such opinions.
 
Ell
It's a matter of economy
If the first thing someone says is stupid then its probably not worth investing time in them
The return Will not justify the investment
 
What if you don't have the full context?
 
I probably said something stupid as the first thing here :D
 
Maybe that person said something that would have made sense if you had more background.
 
9:12 PM
It's also a matter of experience; in most cases it worked better to assume that someone is a moron than to assume he's a smart guy.
 
It's best to assume nothing. Human asserts are bad.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Err. That's rare.
 
@Ell The first thing literally everybody ever says is stupid. It's something along the lines of "gaga".
 
@ElimGarak Then what Ell said follows.
@Puppy ...
Please don't nitpick when people are trying to have a serious discussion.
Thanks from the mountain.
 
user406009
@melak47 I admit that is a pretty large missing feature.
 
9:14 PM
it's not nitpicking, it's fundamentally true and a perfectly valid point.
 
@Griwes That's great as a defense mechanism, but it also means you potentially cut yourself off from several good and interesting relationships.
 
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel then it is unfortunate (for both of you, sure). Unless you decide to dive deeper
 
even if somebody starts with a limited perspective doesn't mean that they'll keep it.
 
Anyone Polish also reading this? I wonder whether anyone gets my terrible joke :/
 
@Griwes :D
I tower you
 
Ell
9:14 PM
Diving deeper is mostly good, I agree, but you can still pick up a pattern with the type if things that people say and you can learn who is worth investing your time in
 
@Puppy Sometimes folks assume a hostile disposition on the basis of the presumption.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I've always been a lone wolf. The experiences of trying to change that were almost always greatly unpleasant.
@unordered_meow <3
 
@Griwes From experience, it seems that people who are loners always have a terrible time with other people, while people who aren't have a better opinion of interpersonal relationships.
I think it has something to do with loners setting themselves for failure without really realizing it.
 
I do have trust issues which make me a loner. But I don't blame other people. It's totally my issue.
 
9:17 PM
But then again that's my own biased view of things.
 
Ell
I am a loner because I am boring, really
 
@EtiennedeMartel I tend to agree with that view.
 
Ell
Well I'm not a loner. But I find it difficult to converse with most people because I can't talk about basic things like music or sports
 
If you're a good talker, the subject doesn't really matter.
Also, being a good listener is probably more important.
But not every conversation needs to be small talk.
 
Ell
I think my problem is that I try to make every conversation meaningful. IRL at least
 
9:19 PM
@Lalaland Not to me, personally. But given that C++ is such a huge clusterfuck, any lack of features of it (like MI, templates being turing complete, access control, OOP subset) may become a blocker to someone else.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Some people enjoy spending time with people they are not connected to in any way outside of actually... spending time. No common passions, no common plans, no common world views. I prefer spending time with someone with whom I know in advance I'll have a topic for a discussion. Discussions about random stuff when there's no actual connection at all make no sense for me.
 
@Griwes So how do you build new connections?
I mean, you have to start somewhere.
 
Ell
@etienne yeah, once I get past small talk usually its okay
Once I can talk about real things
 
Sure. Could learn something about them. But it's not guaranteed, and the whole thing can be a huge waste of time for no reason at all.
 
@Ell Pro-tip: they're all real things.
@Griwes That's the thrill of it. You never know if it'll be worth it.
 
9:21 PM
I want to have a beer with Etienne.
 
@EtiennedeMartel ...with people with whom I have something common.
 
I want to have a beer.
 
I'll settle for a bear.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I prefer slight lack of experiences than to have a potentially unpleasant one. vOv
 
@ElimGarak I'm a bear.
 
9:22 PM
@EtiennedeMartel It's mostly causal- people are loners because they have a terrible time with other people.
 
Why will cd // put me in //, but any other number of slashes will put me in /?
> sports
 
Lots of random people you'll talk with will in one way or another say something about your world view, or - even accidentally - about you. I don't want to do that.
 
Ell
Meh I don't watch sports, they aren't real for me really
 
@набиячлевэлиь Ha! We've hit that at work some time ago.
Apparently in old versions of some Unixy thing // preceded networked hostname or something.
I don't remember the details ATM.
 
@набиячлевэлиь interesting
 
9:23 PM
@Griwes Ooh, interesting
 
But the point being, // has had a special meaning at some point in the past.
So... welcome to the world of backwards compatibility.
I will not be your guide.
 
user406009
Darn, I'm sad. StackOverflow has now officially killed StarGazer :(
 
murdererssssss!!!
 
@Lalaland Just noticed.
 
9:24 PM
@Griwes and windows has \\ :D
 
Actually, it works.
 
@Lalaland They modified the code of the chat, or banned the user? :D
 
But not for new stuff.
 
user406009
They modified the chat code.
 
wow
first time in 234234324 years
 
9:25 PM
@Lalaland muhaha finally I can star crap with impunity again!
 
35
A: unix, difference between path starting with '/' and '//'

GillesFor the most part, repeated slahes in a path are equivalent to a single slash. This behavior is mandated by POSIX and most applications follow suit. The exception is that “a pathname that begins with two successive slashes may be interpreted in an implementation-defined manner” (but ///foo is equ...

 
user406009
They only fixed one of the api's though. There is still one API left with the "feature", but it's much more of a pain to use.
 
3v0
­
 
you sure chat hasn't simply become sentient and is fighting back against your incursions?
 
user406009
It'll take some time to rework StarGazer to work with the stupid API.
 
9:26 PM
We've actually run into that because there was a bug in CMake.
 
user406009
But then they will probably patch that one as well.
 
And because some developer for some reason did cd //var/fpwork, where /var/fpwork on these machines is the local drive.
(Instead of the typical cd /var/fpwork.)
 
idunno how to feel about the new google logo
 
user406009
Anyways, expect StarGazer downtime until whenever I switch to the stupid API. Sorry guys.
 
it feels strange
 
9:28 PM
looks like a power button begging you to turn it off :v
 
3v0
­
 
you broke the chat.
 
@3v0 What the fuck.
 
user406009
@unordered_meow Pretty quick "fix" as well. Only 14 days.
 
@Griwes how'd you manage to reply to that :S
 
3v0
9:30 PM
just type @
 
@Griwes it's snipe
 
3v0
then 3v0
no Im not
 
@melak47 There's like a pixel thick line that highlights when you mouseover it on my screen.
Also message ID 25447616.
I need that userscript that shows ids, ugh.
 
@Griwes yeah, but the reply arrow is above it, so it disappears when I try to go there :p
 
@melak47 Works for me :P
 
user406009
9:31 PM
@Griwes You can just right click, inspect the message. The id is right in the HTML.
 
@3v0 That'll ping you, but won't make an arrow pointing at that specific message.
@Lalaland shush
 
@Griwes Quite interesting indeed!
 
@Griwes Does that mean that was the most British thing you heard today?
 
@набиячлевэлиь That's from a show called QI (...so, Quite Interesting).
 
9:34 PM
@Griwes The URL doesn't explain that
hides in shame
 
@набиячлевэлиь Google image search does, though. :P
 
@Griwes runs away even more
 
I made an obj diagnostic tool.
 
9:35 PM
Now to see what the hell is wrong with tinyobj.
 
@набиячлевэлиь Also I believe it should be набиячлэвэлиь, not набиячлевэлиь - it's "leweli", not "lieweli", after all.
 
@Nooble VS has an OBJ viewer :D
 
@melak47 Really?
 
butt blacklisted
 
@melak47 obj as in model format
 
3v0
9:36 PM
I bet
 
@набиячлевэлиь I know :)
 
3v0
its a can of piss
 
@Griwes I was thinking about that, too
but decided, that the first one is more of an е, than an э
@Nooble No
It's just propaganda
to make you download (and install(!)) VS
 
there's always someone out there using comic sans for power point
 
@nooble do you have an .obj file handy? can't find any on my disk right now :S
 
9:39 PM
 
could you imagine working at apple when steve jerbs was still alive and giving a presentation in comic sans that he attended?
 
@Griwes not enough suspense before punchline
 
@Nooble nevermind, found one
 
@sehe There was some suspense?
 
@Prismatic Oh god. Comic sans that steve jerbs attended is the worst
@ElimGarak Not that I've discovered
 
9:40 PM
Gotta love how Google suggests me to download GChrome even though I'm loading it on w3m
 
@Prismatic could you imagine writing a sentence that you've actually thought of before writing, or at least fixed the setup once you were halfway?
 
> Stable release 0.5.3 (15 January 2011; 4 years ago)
meh
 
too late now
 
@unordered_meow It's alright
Although @Ell seems to prefer links
 
9:42 PM
Pis si ô moins, y'en avait moins
Y'en avait moins de pauvre crétins
Prêts à mourir pour la patrie
Kalashnikov et compagnie
Pour faire rouler l'économie
 
Ell
I prefer links to lynx and w3m
 
@ElimGarak reporting
 
@sehe Most excellent!
 
@ElimGarak You have issues though
 
Indeed, I do!
 
9:46 PM
@набиячлевэлиь you mean "alright" like "WinXP alright"?
 
/cc @ThePhD
Only vertices (positions) are indexed 0_0.
 
3v0
oh btw I still use XP whoever asked
because im sane
 
texcoords and normals are just, well, stored in their respective containers.
 
When a function with pass by value parameters is called, are the objects always copy constructed in reverse order? That's what happened when I ran a quick test
 
@unordered_meow As in alright-alright
I'm using it from a shell-only linux
 
9:50 PM
@texasflood implementation-defined
 
OK thanks
 
@Nooble ahahahaha next time, specify what OBJ file format means to you
 
@sehe Hmm?
 
@Nooble your user is called Admin?
 
9:53 PM
The loader I'm using is a bit weird.
 
@Nooble .obj is a retarded extension for .o in MSVC
 
@melak47 Yes :P
 
@Nooble mine's called User :p
 
@набиячлевэлиь ...
@melak47 C:\Users\User. Nice.
 
@Nooble yup :D
@sehe ?? I was fully aware he was taking about 3d model files :)
 
9:54 PM
Reposted!
 
And I noticed when I run the following:
object mainObj1(5);
object mainObj2(6);
sum(mainObj1, mainObj2);

Then 4 objects are created. But when I run the following:
sum(object(5), object(6));
Only two objects are created, obviously for efficiency because the temporary objects only have rvalues. But does this always happen, or is it only sometimes the case?
 
3v0
how do you remove messages
 
@3v0 You don't.
 
@melak47 congratulations. Why the ??
 
@sehe signalling confusion
 
9:54 PM
@texasflood see as-if rule and copy elision
 
3v0
does that mean I can swear then remove it
:D
 
also move semantics
 
@3v0 No one fucking cares if you swear though.
 
@texasflood only if the constructor/desctructor are trivial
@melak47 you were? I thought I was already doing that
 
3v0
youre wong
wrong*
 
9:56 PM
You can edit messages, don't you know?.
 
3v0
k
 
@sehe Looks to me like the second case is a simple case of elision, which if I recall applies regardless of the triviality of the constructors.
 
@Puppy mmm. legalese I guess
 
@sehe If I recall correctly, which I always do without fail, then the exact circumstances under which elision applies are rather complex, and the compiler can't always apply it even if it's trivially obvious that it should do so.
 
@sehe Interesting, thank you
 
Ell
9:59 PM
Is there a way of finding salaries for particular positions at particular companies? Or is this generally not for pubic eyes? I'm guessing the latter
 
there's no guarantee that everybody in a particular position has the same salary.
 
@Ell I don't think that is public information. Unless its the CEO of some publicly traded company.
 
@Ell plz dont edit plz dont edit plz dont edit...
 
@Puppy Which has a lot to do with "the latter" /cc ell
 
@unordered_meow There are semantics behind not wanting to cast the null pointer but that's a long story
@unordered_meow The long version would be typedef T *tp; func(tp());
 
10:01 PM
interesting, why wouldn't you want to cast the null pointer, that's the most obvious one
 
@Mr.kbok can't you just T*{}?
 
you can do that?
 
even if, then not in C++03
 
definitely not in C++03
 
10:02 PM
@unordered_meow I want to select the overload that takes a pointer, so I want "an object of type T*" not "a null pointer to T"
 
and I would be somewhat surprised if it was legal 11 as well
 
but then it's maybe just my OCD talking
 
@Mr.kbok A null pointer to T is an object of type T*, whose value happens to be null.
 
@Mysticial Ahahaha, again.
 
anyway, off to bed. see you on the morrow
 
Ell
10:04 PM
Night
 
java 8 has a '::' operator
 
we know
 
@Prismatic yeah, so?
 
@Mr.kbok ok, apparently not.
 
2 mins ago, by Puppy
and I would be somewhat surprised if it was legal 11 as well
 
10:05 PM
@unordered_meow nothing, just felt like mentioning
 
(int*){} produces a warning about compound literals...o.O
 
@melak47 C99 feature
 
you can do it with an alias easily, but inline runs into all sorts of parsing problems.
 
35.65 woot
Yo bitches
 
void f(int*){}

template<typename T>
constexpr T* null = nullptr;

int main() {
    f(null<int>);
}
 
10:08 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is that the length of your penis in nanometers?
4
 
:D
 
fuck template variables.
 
nooo
 
No, it's my new personal record for a Rubik's cube solve in seconds.
 
We want unique digits. 35.64 or gtfo! But seriously, impressive.
 
10:23 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes dat ad :)
@R.MartinhoFernandes good work
 
Jan 12 at 14:39, by sehe
WAAAAIT. Vlad got banned on cplusplus.com: http://www.cplusplus.com/user/vlad_from_moscow/
déja vu
@ElimGarak I don't think so. He might actually be a mod/involved there
 
Also, what's wrong with that guy?
 
I'm not sure.
Reading the transcript, there's a lot wrong with our perception of the guy too I suppose
 
user406009
This chat can easily get into circlejerks about hating specific people.
 
10:31 PM
30am. I'mma call quits early today. Too tired.
Night all
 
@ElimGarak He's very vindictive and has been suspended multiple times for voting shenanigans (i.e. revenge downvoting, I was one of his targets)
 
@sehe Night!
 
He's also annoyingly easy to piss off (when you point out a fault in one of his answers for example)
 
@Borgleader Well, that's not nice.
 
@sehe nn
 
10:35 PM
@Borgleader Some have a weird reaction to rep, they think it makes them better than everyone else. Untouchable. Some are normal, like the most of the Lounge.
 
For example, one time I commented on one of his answers about something wrong in it. I hadn't downvoted it myself but it had been downvoted by ppl. A few minutes later I get downvotes on some of mine so I called him out. He left a comment saying something like "I wanted to remind you that you're not the only one who can downvote" (which is a long way of saying i revenge downvoted you)
 
I don't think he understands the purpose of downvotes. I'd personally permanently ban him. And leave him with 1 rep.
 
user406009
Complaining about revenge downvoting here is a little odd since some people here just organized a revenge downvoting spree against Sino. (cough, Elim, cough)
 
sounds like the guy who hacked the ubuntu forums
 
user406009
Seems like a bit of a double standard.
 
10:37 PM
cough Nobody called "Let's downvote this fucker!"
 
@Lalaland Actually, Sino's question was shit and already had shit downvotes. And he was actively disrupting us here.
I just invited the Lounge to take a look at his contributions to SO, which were bad. And in the spirit of the SnackOverflow Network, folks acted. I can't even downvote yet. (And probably never will, not particularly interested beyond the Lounge).
 
user406009
@ElimGarak The counterargument is that everyone has shit questions.
 
Playing the devil's advocate, are we? :P
 
no one would ever learn without asking shit questions
 
You can learn from good questions. Beginner != shit. Shit is produced when you want instant gratification or someone to solve your (home)work for you.
 
10:40 PM
every beginner question gets 100 downvotes
 
user406009
@ElimGarak Always. You don't know truly know your own arguments until you know every good counterargument.
 
Because it's been asked a million times. And SO literally begs you to search before you post.
 
Ell
Ugh I need to lose weight
 
@Ell I need to lose 9 kg until optimal. Bigger problem is getting fit.
 
@ElimGarak the problem is that most beginners don't know what to search for. a beginner usually has little knowledge of common terms and idioms necessary to find the question that answers their own question.
 
Ell
10:41 PM
I wonder how much I've gained on this trip
Getting on the scales when I get hone will be depressing :(
 
i have little knowledge of C, if i were to ask a question it would probably be like "how do i blah blah blah" and the first comment would be "this question has been asked 1000 times you fucking idiot, kill yourself"
 
Only the first part and a dupe then a close vote (with a reference to the last time it got answered)
 
user406009
I also need to lose weight. Perhaps we can all join @Nooble in his soccer practice.
 
@Lalaland i dropped 15 lbs by eating more vegetables and daily exercise
 
@r3wt Sure. That's a problem I also faced at some point. Most of them were resolved by looking around at FAQs and actually reading (and re-reading) the book further.
 
10:43 PM
specifically, i eat 2 cans of spinach daily
 
But most of users don't bother because a.) code dump/"debug my code plz" b.) "I have to hand in the project tomorrow"
 
@unordered_meow which book are you referring too? does it teach you how to understand compiling and writing makefiles and stuff like that?
 
> Floating in magically colourful pieces of sky.
 
i find it difficult to understand the relation between whatever code i would potentially write and that code becoming an executable program.
 
@r3wt If I'm learning about C++, I'm reading a book about C++. If I have a problem with a command I'm running (related to the task I'm doing), I put it into a google search
 
10:46 PM
i've read through quite a bit of the bitcoin source code, so i kind of understand that you have a set of files that get compiled to objects and those objects then get packaged as an executable, but the makefile seems pretty cryptic
 
You already gathered a lot of keywords there
You'll be fine
 
@r3wt woah there popeye
 
offtopic: does your brain ever hurt from thinking?
 
You mean like a headache?
 
@r3wt walk outside, look far and drink some water
 
@r3wt nope, I avoid thinking as much as possible
 
@Borgleader In an alternate universe, flash was open source and well designed and was the successor to HTML4
 
@r3wt I do what @unordered_meow said. I go outside and walk, look at things.
 
@Prismatic There is plenty of these random trinkets around my office.
 
@r3wt What programming taught me is that there is no text that's TL;DR (but on the other hand, I still have an aversion to programming videos)
 
10:55 PM
so i'm getting the feeling that i should not just jump in head first, but instead read a book of some sort
 
yes read a book
 
user406009
@r3wt it's a mix of both.
 
user406009
Read first, and then do little stuff once you complete the first few chapters.
 
user406009
Then read more, and make more complicated things.
 
depends on the subject, but I would at least look around first
 
10:57 PM
@sehe Oh, that was a while ago.
 
so i will read an introduction to compiling and then introduction to makefiles
thanks for the help
 

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