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7:00 AM
Thanks for the OneBox SO
 
@MaiLongdong 0/10 inconsistent alignment
 
@LucDanton I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. You might be overestimating the ambition of the proposal.
 
@Potatoswatter I haven’t been talking about any proposal for over 5 minutes.
Forget about it.
 
12 mins ago, by Luc Danton
@Potatoswatter I wouldn’t know how to proceed without knowing the consensus on whether we already know what the current function should be, what we want it to be, and if we want another vocabulary type.
 
Yeah. That’s relevant no matter which proposals, if any, exist.
 
7:02 AM
Whatever. I'm trying to squeeze as much review as possible, because nobody's gonna look at this until it's published.
 
The consensus-making also happens via DRs and discussions.
 
@LucDanton The two sides of this debate seem to avoid confronting each other. Someone files a DR requesting noexcept, someone files a proposal making it illegal, it's gone back and forth with no actual discussion.
So, there will probably be a lot of tension when I try to present.
 
I place very little currency on submitted proposals. They’re just that.
 
@LucDanton Fundamentals v1 is a published ISO document.
 
That’s not a proposal, anymore.
 
7:07 AM
Not any more. And that's what happens when too many people put too little currency on some technically shaky thing that's "just" a proposal.
 
How emotionally invested are you in this?
 
user1804599
Oh so cute!!! Nope, elyse!! I would not worry about making that astroturf live turf. That owl loves the bristly texture and they don't need live turf for any health reasons I could see! This is a wild owl??? Are you trying to attract owls? Why do you think real grass would be better? Ummmm, do you have cats? Dogs? Birds in a birdterrium? Grins. Owls are predators, yes? I love owls. What do you expect to do, sweetie? — stormy 10 hours ago
 
user1804599
what the fuck
 
Emotion follows time and mental effort… I've definitely taken responsibility for it.
 
It’s not worth it. It’s dumb C++.
 
7:08 AM
pleonasm
 
The time is a sunk cost. It's an interesting problem, and I solved it. Hit it out of the park, even.
 
We're all very proud of you
You made C++ slightly less worse
Go team
 
@Potatoswatter I disagree. Proposals are not 'backdoors' into the standard. They might be stopped without much intervention from the community at large; and conversely too many things have made it in (or haven’t) despite all the good arguments against (or in favour).
 
@MaiLongdong Well, mainly I'm just trying to prevent it from becoming worse in the future.
 
How naive
 
7:11 AM
@Potatoswatter So did you disband the committee or what
 
@elyse Grins.
 
When good arguments do make it into the Committee/national bodies/community at large, it’s not necessarily via a proposal. Hence the wider 'consensus-making' term.
So, if you are really invested in the issue, I sympathise and I see why you’d press on. But I suggest you don’t focus too much on the 'proposal' aspect, whether your own or those of others.
 
@LucDanton The committee can decide whatever it likes at the meetings, regardless of proposals. They choose to be open. But that's not the point here.
 
If the SC/bodies/community at large will be deaf to your good arguments, they’ll be so regardless of the shape it takes.
 
@elyse hahahahaha
 
user1804599
That's almost as awful as forcing somebody to write C++ code.
 
@LucDanton I need to have arguments in the first place. I'll refresh myself from my own writings before doing the presentation.
 
8 mins ago, by Potatoswatter
Not any more. And that's what happens when too many people put too little currency on some technically shaky thing that's "just" a proposal.
I was commenting on that.
 
Good arguments can't just be improvised from awareness of the issues.
 
Okay?
 
7:16 AM
@LucDanton Oh. Well, presumably all the polymorphic allocation stuff came from an official committee wish to have better allocator interoperability.
 
@elyse China
 
He presented a solution, and the committee essentially accepted that it is a solution, and from there it had momentum.
 
@Potatoswatter Yes, I think the SC is more aware than ever of the tradeoffs between the "stable API/ABI with erasure at the borders" vs "everything parametrised for maximum compiler goodness" extremes of the spectrum. Which is nice.
 
@LucDanton But the best means to erasure is string_view and polymorphic ranges, not polymorphic allocators.
 
Hello guys
 
7:19 AM
hi
 
@Potatoswatter I’m not of the opinion that those two things overlap exactly.
 
I am learning about recursion, can someone please confirm whether my non recursive version here is correct: codepad.org/mcJvXskL
 
Other solutions are in progress, and are likely to pick up steam because they're not as disruptive.
 
@We'reAllMadHere That's quite a sexist greeting don't you think
 
hahah, sorry 'bout that
 
7:20 AM
@LucDanton Not 100%, but close enough.
 
@We'reAllMadHere Maybe you think it's fun but in this male-dominated industry this kind of attitude is exactly what drives female away
Please consider changing
Thanks
 
@Potatoswatter Precisely why the C++ people (and not just those involved in the standardisation process) will spend a lot of time on it.
 
reinterpret_cast usually means you fucked up hth
 
@LucDanton On what?
 
Also dunno what you tried to achieve with either of those
 
7:22 AM
I tried to convert the recursive class to a non recursive
 
Copy ctors taking non-const references and also not copying
 
@Potatoswatter On devising an over-elaborate solution that will hopefully solve some use cases, but at least you won’t pay something something use.
 
@MaiLongdong Well, you have a point to be honest... But I think it's more than that
 
Also both are about as recursive
The longer one is just more broken
 
@We'reAllMadHere What do you mean?
 
7:24 AM
@MaiLongdong Women usually don't "like" programming... Not sure why, but that's the impression I get
Of courses there are exceptions
 
Well of course with greetings like that they won't
It's a chicken and egg problem
 
It's like it's anecdotal or something
 
@CatPlusPlus Can you explain how to do the non recursive version "correctly" please?
 
@LucDanton string_view and Ranges are over-elaborate?
 
@We'reAllMadHere I have no idea what you're trying to do
Also no
 
7:25 AM
@We'reAllMadHere They just say they don't in order to end the conversation with you.
 
@CatPlusPlus Just create a copy constructor for that class
@Potatoswatter lol you are mean
 
@Potatoswatter Maybe (moreso the latter). But I was referring to the simultaneous development of those and pmr: an attempt to cover all bases.
 
Keepin it real
@LucDanton Problem with pmr is that you pay for it even when you don't use it.
 
That's capitalism my friend
 
@Potatoswatter That was sarcasm.
 
7:28 AM
@LucDanton Did not pick that up. Hey, if you think C++ is complicated enough now, you can decide to stop using future editions of the standard.
 
user1804599
Hmm.
 
user1804599
When the client sends a bad request, should I terminate the connection or should I silently drop the request?
 
Major template libraries tend to keep good backward compatibility, and you probably can convince managers that the new editions are shit. :)
 
The hint was the 'something something'.
@Potatoswatter I just go with the flow.
 
@elyse Send error or close connection. Silence is horrible. (Developed a client for a server that did that. It's awful.)
 
7:30 AM
Depends on badness of the request
 
user1804599
Ok. I'll send a message back.
 
so anyway besides sexism and everything I just came to ask if the first class is the same as the second, hre is the link codepad.org/mcJvXskL
 
Repeat it 10 more times maybe then we'll care more
 
I do not understand why you are so hostile
 
@Potatoswatter Really, I wasn’t voicing an opinion. It was a joke at the expense of the C++ community.
 
7:31 AM
I'm sober
 
What do you mean "besides sexism"? Wtf? As if it were irrelevant?
You're the one who's hostile here
god
 
user1804599
Also I should document this protocol.
 
Also trying to figure out why Celery is broken piece of shit
 
You are right I am sorry but i didn't mean it that way
 
@We'reAllMadHere Most people here don't like checking over other people's code for mistakes
You could try Code Review on SE, or try verifying if they are the same on your own
 
7:32 AM
Actually I don't think I have made a mistake but I can't run the code therefore I came here
 
Why can't you run the code?
 
That makes a lot of sense yes
You literally posted it on a service that runs code
 
I am death
 
Out of rum eh
 
Because my code contains a lot more classes which are unfinished
 
7:34 AM
@We'reAllMadHere So create what you want to test in a way that you can test it in isolation
 
@LucDanton Fair nuff. Thanks for reading the proposal, I guess now I know what to write for the conclusion: "Maybe don't take the parts of this that add complexity, but heed the warnings."
 
@CatPlusPlus almost, but that's not what's killing me
I have man flu
 
What is that
 
@thecoshman either that or bird flu!
 
Drippy peen
 
7:35 AM
nose was so blocked up last night, I woke up with my mouth nearly gummed up solid
 
classy
 
Yeah I guess that's a solution but I gotta have finished the code by today so I am in a knida hurry :p
*kinda
 
lol you're scoring all the right points
 
@MaiLongdong oh yeah
 
@Potatoswatter Just in case, there have been proposals just for the sake of outlining things precisely (when we were mixing concerns as we may be doing here). It’s not all about submitting new wording or features.
 
7:38 AM
@Prismatic Anyways the bottom line is, using reinterpret_cast with null produces the same result as the other class?\
 
I'm not going to go over your code for you. There's only a couple of functions there. Write tests to make sure they are doing what you expect.
 
does C++ regex let me do something like (\d+) (\d+) (\d+)(?: (\d+))? ie, capture three digit groups, with an optional fourth digit group, each group space seperated
 
@thecoshman yes
 
@Potatoswatter If you remember we had a '"Static If Considered" proposal, which point was to be a rebuttal against static if proposals. Obviously it didn’t introduce solutions or new wording, since this was against introducing a new feature. The sake of the 'proposal' was to present good arguments.
 
7:43 AM
@MaiLongdong well I'll be. Now to work out how to read out that...
 
Oh you had the regex already
 
:25430449 I could do, but I think the spec is bit more precise in that it should be ' ' not just any old white space
that said, I could always do like (\d+)(\s+)... and give out if that second capture is not ' '...
 
Xeo
@thecoshman That seems to overcomplicate things for the sake of overcomplicating it
 
user1804599
Regular expressions are great.
 
user1804599
@thecoshman lol not-PCRE.
 
7:47 AM
@Xeo that's my thinking too. Easy enough to just fail for not use ' '
@elyse huh?
 
user1804599
Use PCRE.
 
@elyse ... go on...
 
user1804599
No.
 
have any of you come across a namespace conflict?
 
7:50 AM
PCRE sucks
 
I'm writing some C++ glue code between some "language X" and a C library. I need to pass a value from language X (only int, const char *, double supported) that will be translated to an enum handled by the library. What is the best way?
 
user1804599
@thecoshman Yes. That's not PCRE, so it sucks.
 
1. I could directly convert an `int` to the enum value. But this is not directly allowed by C++ and what if the library author changes the underlying ints?
2. I could use a big `switch` to convert the `int` to `enum`. It's ugly though.
3. I could pass a string (`const char *`) and set up an `std::map<const char *, SomeEnum>`. Is there a way to make this more concise than the `switch`?
 
@Prismatic hehe. Is that a question
 
oooh
 
7:50 AM
@Szabolcs Congratulations. You've also just walked into a lounge.
 
user1804599
 
It's customary to greet people
@elyse snakes sometimes bite and try to eat their own tails
 
user1804599
They are stupid.
 
@Szabolcs Hm, you could use BOOST_ENUM
 
Is today some international question day
 
7:52 AM
Boost enum is very useful and does lots of things
You should use it
 
@Szabolcs I think you need to use the documented facilities exposes by "the library". If the enum values are documented, they cannot change overnight. Period.
Otherwise, no way without the switch.
RuleOfThumb: minimize the dependency on APIs and document all dependency
 
@sehe The underlying integers are not documented.
@sehe Well, there's the map option.
 
@Szabolcs So you cannot use them. Period
@Szabolcs There is no difference whatsoever. Unless you're prepared to read the mappings from some source that can be updated when the "underlying integers change"
 
user1804599
> Nullable ... weird
 
7:54 AM
In that case, the values are documented, implicitly
 
user1804599
you wouldn't say
 
Who's Eri Clippert
 
lel
@elyse that blog post not mentioning lift... weird
 
user1804599
Nullable is terrible.
 
template<typename T> using Terrible = Nullable<T>;
 
7:55 AM
@sehe gym is overrated
 
user1804599
C# has no templates.
 
yawn
 
rightfold has no humor.
 
user1804599
Java also got Optional wrong, but much less wrong than C# got Nullable wrong.
 
he also has no wrinkles and no flaws
 
7:57 AM
Good mawning, pawns.
 
user1804599
Because you can't have an Optional<T> of null.
 
@ElimGarak hello weakling
 
@MaiLongdong I'm having some trouble googling that up, can you give me a pointer?
 
Yes of which type?
 
Boring one
 
7:58 AM
@elyse That makes sense because you can only have Nullable of valuetypes. Remember, on of the two generic constraints available. No problem
 
@MaiLongdong Or is it this one? github.com/flaub/boost-enum
 
Yes that's exactly it
 
user1804599
@sehe Yes, in C# Nullable that's fine.
 
user1804599
However, it has other problems.
 
@MaiLongdong So it's not on boost.org?
 
7:59 AM
Not yet it's proposed
 
user1804599
E.g. you can't have Nullable<Nullable<T>>, and there's implicit conversions.
 
@elyse Huh. What Nullable were you talking about
2 mins ago, by elyse
Java also got Optional wrong, but much less wrong than C# got Nullable wrong.
 
How is Ubuntu with multidisplay support these days?
 
nonexistent
 
user1804599
@sehe Nullable<T> aka T?.
 
user1804599
7:59 AM
System.Nullable
 

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