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10:00 PM
@Morwenn I was going to look up the relevant scene from French in Action that illustrates this, but google has other intentions.
 
We're going to have to ask @ʞɔᴉN for money.
 
In the second one he says "Touch it, see? Nothing happens!"
 
@Jeremy It's probably about this manga with a trap. Totally relevant.
 
Ell
I need some water
 
And in the third one he says "It's a chopping board, dumbass"
 
10:01 PM
@AndyProwl :(
 
Lol that blasphemy fits quite well in there
 
Ell
I have started feeling that plum spirit :L
 
@nabijaczleweli You should go to uncon then.
 
I don't know, I started giggling like an idiot
 
Ell
Brb nübs
 
10:01 PM
Totally unexpected ending
 
2deep4me
 
top discussion on livecoding.tv/sehe chat
 
(...or am I too short)
 
I can use some help
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ IDGI.
 
10:02 PM
Or I'll not code anything anymore
 
@Nooble The girl took a chipping board
And thought it was a tablet
 
Aaaaaaah
 
I don't feel comfortable explaining this joke honestly
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Ohhh.
IRTA Chopping bird.
 
10:03 PM
I see you fixed it
It said chopping bird b4
 
Oh.
Damn it Jefffff.
 
@Morwenn I had something different in mind
 
@Jeremy I guessed so ^_^
But I never fail to mention traps when I can.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Almost looks like a real language.
 
@Morwenn French in Action is a popular program to learn french in universities in the U.S. There are videos, and they are popular. This is the main female character:
 
10:05 PM
Seriously, livecoding.tv has one of the worst UI of all times
 
As you can see, she is frequently cold and bra-less, which fascinates us prudish Americans
 
How do you change username?
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Agreed, so confusing
 
@Jeremy This fascination always fascinated me.
 
Breasts are such alien constructs.
 
10:09 PM
@EtiennedeMartel If females are an alien race from outer-gender.
 
check out this smooth talker
 
The theories about why is human the only mammal with such huge breasts outside of the lactation period are strange too.
 
user406009
@Morwenn Probably has a lot to do with how we stand upright.
 
user406009
In other animals, breasts would be less visible from distance.
 
> Your account has no password set up.
TELL ME HOW I CAN FUCKING SET UP A PASSWORD YOU DUMB WEBSITE
 
10:11 PM
@Lalaland One theory was that because "we're not doing doggy style by default anymore", huge breasts remind males of buttocks when they fuck and so they're more likelt to be exicted.
 
Ell
I do doggystyle by default
7
 
@Ell Which is why the theory seems so wrong among other things.
 
This conversation is making my work seem increasingly less appealing.
 
I'm gonna get insane
 
user406009
That would require you to be sane first.
 
10:16 PM
Meh, the new Infected Mushroom track featuring Sasha Grey kind of sucks.
 
> It takes a fool to remain sane.
 
user406009
But @Jeremy is correct. We should try to stay PG-13.
 
Ok, I'm done
fuck livecoding.tv forever
Can't even remove my account
 
@Nooble I can cover up to 2000 rupees
 
did you stream?
 
10:18 PM
no
 
free company compensation for travel
 
@Morwenn Pretty sure that it's conclusively just to attract males.
 
fuuuuuuu
can't change email either
 
@Puppy I'd like to dismiss sexist theories for the sake of it, but they make no less sense than the other ones :p
 
user406009
Attracting males is not a sexist theory.
 
10:21 PM
stuck forever with "Jeffffrey"
 
@Morwenn Other animals have way more questionable features for that purpose
 
good job livecoding.tv
 
@Puppy I have to agree.
@Lalaland Attracting males only is sexist :p
 
user406009
? We are talking about evolutionary biology. Genes exist to further increase chances or reproduction.
 
user406009
Attracting males is one way to increase reproductive chances.
 
10:23 PM
@Lalaland Reproduction is sexist.
 
user406009
Well, it sorta is.
 
user406009
It doesn't really work without a guy and a gal.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ rekt
 
rekkkkt
I hate even numbers too
If it was 5 fs I wouldn't mind
They had to be 4
 
@Lalaland There's parthenogenesis, but that's a tad bit narcissistic.
 
user406009
10:26 PM
I don't think humans can do that.
 
we wouldn't know
 
Some have claimed they could but it's never been proven.
 
there's a bunch of animals like sharks that can do parthenogenesis but only actually do it when they can't find any mates
 
user406009
Should be pretty easy to check. Simple DNA analysis should answer that question.
 
so even if we could do parthenogenesis, it would be pretty unlikely in our current circumstances.
 
10:27 PM
Some lizards too. When they're alone, they start reproducing that way.
And phasms too. Some species of phasms only have female individuals left.
 
Parthenogenesis is interesting. It's like the body gave up on itself finding a mate.
Poor lizards just need some self-confidence
 
Then there's hermaphroditism. It's neither sexist nor narcissistic.
 
@Lalaland When did I say that?
 
@AlexM. So lounge.
 
10:35 PM
@Jefff you killed the chat :)
@Jeremy o gosh, I'd literally have never noticed (You can check my feed that I've seen the image at least 4-5 times before reading your comment. Even zoomed in to find anything noteworthy)
 
user406009
@Jeremy < This conversation is making my work seem increasingly less appealing.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ ...
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ delayed lol
 
@Lalaland My work, not the chat! :)
@sehe Jennifer Aniston's character in Friends has a similar reputation, if you're familiar with the series.
 
@sehe Sorry :8
@sehe Don't show that picture in the stream
 
@sehe Translation?
 
10:47 PM
48 mins ago, by ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ
So in the first one the girl says "My dear, I can't turn on the tablet"
 
punchline: it's a cutting board.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ it's been there several times
 
:c it contains italian blasphemy
 
nobody cares
 
except italians
 
10:53 PM
god dog?
 
> You can reduce this by adding more sides to your square not nonsense
Made me do a double take
 
of all the horrible things people can say to each other...
 
Yes, it's a very bad thing to say in italy
Much much worse than the equivalent of "fuck", "piece of shit", etc...
 
Worse than "yo mama" jokes?
 
much worse
> In Italian language profanities belonging to this category are called bestemmie (singular: bestemmia), in which God, the Virgin Mary, Jesus, the Saints or the Roman Catholic Church are insulted. This category is so strong it is usually frowned upon even by people who would make casual or even regular use of the profanities above.
 
10:57 PM
> Until 1999, uttering this class of profanities in public was considered a misdemeanor in Italy (although the offenders were very rarely if ever pursued).
 
> Bestemmiare (swearing) is a misdemeanor in Italian law, but the law is seldom enforced. However, it is still considered a strong social taboo at least on television. For example, anyone caught uttering bestemmie in the Italian Big Brother (Grande Fratello) "must be immediately expelled", because they offend "millions of believers".[18] Uttering bestemmie is widely seen as a vice, and is often listed together with smoking, drinking and substance abuse.
 
Dat burn
 
Hahaha, blasphemy :D
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ does that video make your skin crawl?
 
user406009
11:00 PM
I don't understand people who use PHP to start new projects or who learn it as their first language.
 
@Jeremy Yes, I don't find it funny in the slightest
I know many people do
 
user406009
It's like they wade through a pile of warning signs and decide to jump off the cliff anyways.
 
@Lalaland Easy to use
 
user406009
So is python.
 
user406009
Python and PHP are direct competitors and Python beats PHP in almost every way.
 
11:03 PM
@Lalaland Not in the "let's see the first html page rendered on the browser" thingy
Which is the only compelling reason to use PHP
 
user406009
Python's pretty good at that as well.
 
user406009
With microframeworks like Flask.
 
No, you need libraries for that
Python is general purpose, PHP is directly aimed at web programming
 
user406009
Installing flask is easy.
 
And there exist many easy-to-setup MySQL + PHP environments
 
user406009
11:04 PM
Just use SQLite in Python.
 
user406009
No fancy setup needed.
 
@Lalaland For you maybe, but it requires the user to know how to use the command line
In PHP you never need to use the command line or install packages
You have everything you need right off the bat
 
user406009
You can install flask from a GUI. Just open up your linux package manager.
 
user406009
Search for flask.
 
user406009
Install.
 
user406009
11:06 PM
Done.
 
lol
You still have to start the server via command line
And also there are many competing frameworks. The user has to learn what a framework is, why does he need it and what's the best one to begin.
 
user406009
That's true.
 
Those are not exactly trivial
 
user406009
Well, you just tell them to use Python+Flask.
 
user406009
They don't need to know or care about the other ones.
 
11:07 PM
In PHP you have pretty much all the choices made for you and you have a variety of utilities that come preinstalled.
 
user406009
Installing stuff is easy.
 
There's pretty much no easier environment to setup
Ok lalaland
It's easy, then go figure why so many people start with PHP
 
user406009
My guess? The large number of existing PHP developers and large presence of legacy PHP code out there.
 
user406009
Just look at that livecoding site.
 
user406009
Most of the web people are coding in PHP.
 
user406009
11:10 PM
So in one word: Momentum.
 
user406009
The counterargument is that I should "be the change I want to see in the world"
 
user406009
I probably should create a livecoding account to show people that there is an alternative
 
@elyse I like it. But since I can't move my mouse and press keys at the same time I use it mostly as a 2d building maker like minecraft, with occasional panicked flailing when I advance far enough that a boss spawns on me.
 
user406009
I will admit that installing Python and packages on Windows can be a bit of a problem compared to PHP.
 
user406009
That's something that also needs work.
 
11:13 PM
Why do you care
 
user406009
PHP needs to die
 
Whatever
Someone else's problem
 
@Lalaland Just use the Anaconda distribution on Windows.
 
I like games that let me dick around
 
Not to mention that in most PHP environment it also comes with MySQL databases installed, which can be handled via phpMyAdmin via browser.
 
11:14 PM
Then pip does the job for everything else.
 
People use total garbage oh no, who cares, their problem
 
I'm eager to hear how you can beat that with Python+Flask as far as "easy to setup and use" is concerned.
 
user406009
@CatPlusPlus If it's always "Someone else's problem" it will never get done.
 
And?
It never will anyway, no matter how much you whine about it
 
Not recognize those few strengths PHP has is dumb imho.
 
11:16 PM
Haha strengths no it's total utter barely deployable garbage
That it takes 5 minutes less to setup means absolutely nothing
(It's also not true)
 
@Lalaland If it's an SEP you might not notice it, especially if someone's painted it pink.
 
lol 5 minutes
gg cat, go read the transcript if you care
 
You can learn how to make terrible webapps in PHP faster than to make terrible webapps in Python yes
You ~~~~need libraries~~~~ no matter what language you're using, because your stack is shit and <?php echo gets you nowhere near production
 
Nobody is talking about production, hth
 
It's a dumb argument for dumb people
If you're not aiming for production you're wasting time there are better and easier ways to learn general programming than web
 
11:18 PM
No, it's not. The question was why so many newbies get into PHP
 
Because they do
 
And the answer is that PHP's strength is the easy to setup part of its environment.
 
It has nothing to do with strengths of PHP because it has none
It's a liability
 
And we are talking about newbies with no knowledge of libraries, frameworks or command line.
 
If your environment is prepackaged Apache and PHP and MySQL then you're learning worthless shit
 
11:19 PM
And those are not things you learn in ~~~~5 minutes~~~~
 
No, and those are things you still need to learn for PHP
 
user406009
I admit @ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ has a point. Especially on Windows.
 
@CatPlusPlus They don't care
 
Not really, no
 
user406009
But also in Linux.
 
11:20 PM
They are newbies
Yeah ok cat
 
It still doesn't matter
 
I'm not even gonne enter this shitty argument of yours
 
As much as I love seeing @CatPlusPlus trashing stuff, I'm getting sleepy.
See you later ^_^
 
user406009
I think @CatPlusPlus has spent too much time in his ivory tower.
 
11:21 PM
It's not my problem that people are learning garbage they're going to have unlearn for any real job
Yes the ivory tower where you pay people for making actual webapps
 
user406009
@CatPlusPlus The problem is that those people bring PHP into the work environment.
 
user406009
Leading to more PHP in the world.
 
user406009
Which is a sadness.
 
Those people bring problems and worthless opinions nobody cares about into the work environment
 
> Okay ladies and gents. With that deep dive into boost geo (again), I wish you all good night. See you next time
crosspost
 
11:22 PM
You're not going to convert anyone to using PHP because you managed to install prepackaged semibroken WAMP instance faster than learning what any of that even means
 
Don't fall asleep now
that would be a waste of time
@thecoshman I can remind you of this periodically
 
And if you're applying for company that already uses PHP then you're going to learn hard about all those evil command line tools
 
@CatPlusPlus erm. I've seen counterexamples
 
user406009
For instance: Facebook
 
So really who careeeeeees get a life nerd
 
user406009
11:23 PM
Still using PHP due to legacy code.
 
Yeah if you think you can do PHP at Facebook the same way you do PHP in your precious bubble of Apache+MySQL then you're going to be very disappointed
And also fired
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ and pay for the rest of your life. It's like STDs
 
@sehe Still someone else's problem
 
Missing the point as usual of course
 
Haha, Facebook even did a PHP-to-C++ converter to keep their legacy code, or somthing along these lines.
 
11:25 PM
No, I'm not missing any points, I'm saying from the start that it doesn't fucking matter if people are learning PHP or not
 
They also wrote a C++ lint tool in D.
 
They wrote Hack which is a "better PHP" with backward compatibility with the language itself
 
They write a lot of things
Stock PHP VM doesn't scale for shit
 
@CatPlusPlus It matters for the discussion me and laland were having.
That was the whole point of the discussion, which you have missed by a mile.
 
13 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Why do you care
12 mins ago, by Lalaland
PHP needs to die
I.e. you're all nerds and I didn't even fucking enter your stupid discussion
 
11:27 PM
sure
 
I just mocked you trying to sell PHP as having any strengths
 
It has strengths
Just like anything out there
 
Yeah, you can laugh it up all you want
Just like you always do, lol
 
You're the guy who'll defend a fucked up system because it doesn't break on Fridays
 
11:28 PM
lol PHP is terrible
I'm not defending it
 
You keep talking about *AMP stacks ignoring the fact that you can prepackage anything that way
 
In fact I hate it more than you can possibly imagine in this period when I actually have to work with that shit.
 
> Why do we need thirteen different functions to sort an array?
 
Python works about as well as PHP in CGI setup, and you can start outputting to browser with even less code
 
But it has the strength of a good ecosystem that is easy to start with if you want to see shit on the screen fast.
 
11:30 PM
From the creator of PHP himself:
> There is code, it sort of works, that’s what we go with, that’s always been the default. It doesn’t always lead to consistency but it does lead to getting the features and actually being able to do something. […] at least it gets you there. […] We’d rather have an ugly feature than not having a feature at all.
 
Will these programmer-wannabes have to learn command line tools? Of course.
 
Nobody prepackages anything like PHP (which is not even an official PHP thing, it's just idiots doing broken shit for other idiots) because developing in that bubble is actively harmful to you
 
Do they have to do it to make a silly website and be happy about themselves? No.
And that's a strength.
It's easy in the eyes of the newbies.
Period.
@CatPlusPlus No, it doesn't work "as well as PHP".
 
Yes it does
 
@thecoshman I can remind you of this periodically
 
11:33 PM
The trivial CGI hello world is literally print('hello world')
You don't even have to learn about mode switches
 
I want to see you setup a chat server (using the database) without 1) command line 2) knowing SQL
 
Because you can do that very easily with PHP
 
However the fuck are you going to do that with PHP
You literally said that libraries are bad, how will you avoid writing SQL
:psyduck:
 
And yes, command line is scary to newbies.
Not something they get comfortable with very easily.
Definitely not in ~~~5 minutes~~~
 
11:35 PM
Keep ignoring the prepackaging
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Really? I always saw it as a simpler thing.
 
You can preconfigure Apache to serve all files of whatever language through that language's VM
And then you just tell people what to do to output which is literally the same thing as with PHP
No command line involved
Again that's more harmful than just teaching them what to do to start doing shit properly
The only reason it's PHP is because it's more popular
 
I wanna see how you are going to start or install Apache without command line.
 
That's it, that's the whole mystery
 
:allears:
 
11:38 PM
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ I wanna see how you configure PHP in Apache without any knowledge
 
:whatthefuckisthis:
 
Oh wait you're again ignoring the fucking prepackaging
 
I don't have to
 
PHP without a prepackaged stack is probably one of the hardest fucking things to setup
 
I download XAMMP or whatever its name is, click "start server", write a file in PHP and go to localhost in my browser.
@CatPlusPlus Yes
 
11:39 PM
There we go
And now substitute XAMPP with whatever's prepackaging Python or Ruby or whatever else
See how your argument falls apart?
It's not a strength of PHP that it's being included in those fucking packages, it's popularity
You can trivially make a package that includes anything
 
No, no I don't because there don't exist equivalent prepackages
 
Because nobody cares about people who need them
 
The fact that you can ~~~trivially~~~ prepackage anything doesn't mean that it exists
 
It's wrong way to start, it's wrong way to continue
 
And we are discussing about things that exist
 
11:41 PM
It still doesn't make it a strength of PHP
 
It's not the wrong way to start
It's a way to start and experiment with things
 
It's a strength of those packages if anything
 
And PHP is there only because of popularity
No, it's wrong on every level
lol
 
11:43 PM
@thecoshman I can remind you of this periodically
 
Please don't
 
Yeah, please stop
 
I like his reminders.
 
Oh sorry. Only happens if I "take a wrong turn"
It's easy to forget. I'll fix the script for now
 
Have you guys come across explicitly default initializing something within aggregate initialization? It looks so weird
struct Test {
    double k;
    weak_ptr<int> wptr_int_0;
    weak_ptr<int> wptr_int_1;
    weak_ptr<int> wptr_int_2;
    weak_ptr<int> wptr_int_3;
    int x;
    int y;
};
// init
Test{ 1,{},{},{},{},3,5 };
 
11:47 PM
Do that "all" the time
 
@Nooble it is simpler. Objectively
> Hey sehe,
Because you are so awesome on Livecoding.tv, we want to send you a T-shirt. Please fill your address details here. https://goo.gl/xxxxxx
Hahahaha. To Click Or Not To Click, That Is The Bait
 
@sehe Check the user.
Could be legit.
= free shirt.
 
I'm not that poor
Yet
 
@sehe Give me link I want a free shirt.
 

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