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7:00 AM
morning
 
Yeah, damn it. It's a really nice car, I like it because it doesn't draw too much attention to itself, yet it's nice and unique.
This one. But I can't find it anywhere in the EU within reasonable distance.
 
Good mornings again
It was a funny question
 
No need to delete stuff, Mai. Plugin restores it almost immediately. :Đ
 
nooooooo
 
I need to stop using :Đ.
 
7:02 AM
 
@ElimGarak That's some extreme lighting
@ElimGarak which one?
 
Lalaland's, wait.
 
drumroll
 
Damn it, did he delete it?
It also shows who starred what.
 
@ElimGarak wow. I'll be using firefox today
 
7:06 AM
For example, @sehe starred Mirza Jhanzaib's line.
 
That has been some time
@ElimGarak Good nose for controverse
 
And the GitHub permissions thing.
 
@ElimGarak Hrrm? Oh
 
You starred it. Yeah. Shit. Stop using that, Elim.
Now we can all see who is starring cock related lines.
 
It's just not showing
(Have already cleared all cookies, no diff)
 
7:11 AM
Also, it says no restart, but it needs a restart.
Reload of the page at least.
 
Several times
 
Also Firefox version check.
40.0.2 is current
 
 
Works here, if you delete an image, we can still see it, for example. Even though in escaped HTML code for now.
 
Sooo. It works until you touch the zoom, in which case all starboard disappears
 
7:13 AM
@Lalaland Fix your shit! :P
 
Bad news for me is: I always touch zoom, because I can only work with chat on zoom, but that leaves no room for starboard. So, to view stars, I zoom out
It does work to zoom out, reload, check starboard, zoom in again
Wait. It just disappeared on mouse-over - no zooming
I have to be really really curious for that :) Let's see about deletions
 
And it's back. But it is always escaped, so ' will go away. Injected as text.
 
Oh interesting, you can't even see it was deleted
 
Yeah. Would be an addition, just insert a padded text surrounded by red saying TRIED TO DELETE @Lalaland. When you fix to inject HTML instead of plain text.
 
Maybe abuse another font color or mouseover etc.
Okay, back in Opera
 
7:17 AM
Yeah, Opera is pretty good.
 
Nice adding @Lalaland - impressive integration none-the-less
@ElimGarak You don't know what version <whistle/>
 
Hi
 
@sehe I'm at 31.0.1889.174 right now. You? :P
 
> Opera/9.80 (X11; Linux x86_64) Presto/2.12.388 Version/12.16
 
Ahahah. I had to manually introduce X11 to OS X yesterday. To play Fallout 1/2.
 
7:19 AM
How does that even
 
Apple removed it some time ago, with El Capitan it was a bit annoying.
 
user1804599
Are derivatives of Vim required to retain the Uganda notice in the splash screen?
 
@MaiLongdong Too much code, 2/10.
 
@elyse Let me ask a friend of mine
 
user1804599
7:21 AM
XD
 
@MaiLongdong personally I would prefer compose over inherit
 
@MaiLongdong the non-inheritance. I'd model it as a unique_ptr<mutex> or an optional<mutex> member though
 
right
 
@sehe (It's basically XQuartz now).
 
thanks~
 
7:23 AM
@TonyTheLion Sounds like a rich-heir emotional-musician story.
 
@MaiLongdong Inheriting publicly seems very, very wrong.
 
@LucDanton Yeah, you can get shot if your relatives were rich.
 
@LucDanton Asking for a friend who doesn't know C++.
 
user1804599
@MaiLongdong concurrent blocking queues
 
Why is inheritance bad in that case?
 
7:24 AM
I prefer "compose", because it cuts dependencies.
 
user1804599
fuck locks
 
I mean, I can compose myself, but I cannot inherit myself
 
@elyse It's code I'm slowly refucktoring
 
user1804599
Stop.
 
user1804599
Don't refucktor.
 
7:25 AM
@Prismatic I have no strong feeling one way or the other regarding protected/private inheritance vs composition.
 
    class Mutex // implements BasicLockable requirements
    {
    public:
        Mutex() { }
        virtual ~Mutex() { }

        virtual void lock()=0;
        virtual void unlock()=0;
    };
 
@MaiLongdong Before I forget to mention, dynamically choosing to lock is of course a pretty bad idea to begin with.
@Prismatic That is a better idea, but without the virtual interface; Meaning: statically chosen policy
 
I use that and static assert (is base of or whatever) to make sure I can call lock and unlock on whatever the user gives me
 
I tend to stick with composition (unless I can’t, but that’s rare/exotic situations) because I find it somewhat easier to track members than bases in my head when reviewing.
 
WTH does an optional mutex do anyway?
 
7:26 AM
The point of the virtual interface is to let the user use whatever kidn of mutex they want.
 
@sehe The current codebase is configured to lock or not based on settings loaded at runtiem /cc @Mark
 
@LucDanton My thought exactly.
 
@MaiLongdong ... wow!
 
@Prismatic Right. What is the use case for that. In what kind of application is locking not an implementation detail?
 
@MarkGarcia yeah.
 
@MaiLongdong So, why don't you use a different datastructure? So, e.g. my_data_structure<null_mutex> vs. my_data_structure<std::mutex>?
 
@Prismatic That cannot possibly be an alternative to composition.
 
@MarkGarcia Oh, I know that very well, but hey, not my code :D
 
@sehe I don't get your question
 
@sehe Almost that except it's configured as an injected dependency, not a template policy
 
7:30 AM
my_data_structure<configured_mutex>
you can’t win
 
@Prismatic in what application do you ask the user "would you like to lock access to this datastructure now? [Y]es/[N]o/[H]elp"?
 
user1804599
@Prismatic don't do that.
 
but then I need to erase things and bleh
 
yeah
 
user1804599
7:30 AM
Instead, make separate unrelated types conforming to BasicLockable, and make a single class any_mutex which uses polymorphic classes internally.
 
wait what
no
 
@MaiLongdong To me, that's almost certainly the wrong level of abstraction.
@MaiLongdong You already do. But on the lower level of abstraction
 
@MaiLongdong If you want to reuse the other mutex classes, then yeah. But you don’t have to.
 
@sehe I pass the Mutex class as an argument in to another class that uses it. Depending on what the user is doing, they can create that class with a lock that's just a dummy, or with a lock that creates a critical section however they want. Maybe for performance reasons they have a specific kind of mutex they want to use. Maybe they are doing some black magic voodoo and they want to use recursive mutexes
 
7:33 AM
@LucDanton hm?
 
user1804599
also lol concurrency in C++
 
> for performance reasons
> uses virtual interface for basic lockable
 
If your class wants to store a callback and you do that via std::function<Sig>, then you always pay the erasure. If you turn it into a class template the user can still elect to use std::function<Sig> as the particular callback type. As the class/class template writer you write the same thing either way, but you grant additional flexibility to the user for free in the second case.
Same deal if you have your runtime-conf’d mutex class already.
 
@Prismatic also, the plain answer appears to be "It's not an application". In which case static policies are the way to go, IMO
 
7:34 AM
Maybe the cost of locking a mutex is far greater than the overhead of using a virtual function. Maybe they want to use spinlocking only or whatever. Why is it so unreasonable to think that someone might want to use a special mutex?
 
@Prismatic But the overhead of using a virtual function is almost certainly not negligable when spinlocking "or whatever"
 
user1804599
it's unreasonable to have public APIs with virtual in them.
 
Whenever I have the choice between an erased thing (à la std::function<Sig>) or turning the class into a class template the only question I ask myself is: can I afford yet another class template in my headers?
Turns out I don’t write classes very often anyway.
 
@Prismatic Nobody said this. I was asking for the application where "a user" decides it (the answer was: it's a library). To which I say what I said. And what Luc said:
2 mins ago, by Luc Danton
If your class wants to store a callback and you do that via std::function<Sig>, then you always pay the erasure. If you turn it into a class template the user can still elect to use std::function<Sig> as the particular callback type. As the class/class template writer you write the same thing either way, but you grant additional flexibility to the user for free in the second case.
The part that is unreasonable is the virtual interface there, IMO
 
@LucDanton 夜色,right
 
7:38 AM
I can't use a template here unfortunately
I need to pass in the actual object in the constructor... poor design I guess
 
也算是Itok阿此次扽他联络员 I accidentally enabled the chinese IME how do I turn it off
 
order new keyboard
 
@Prismatic This is a recurring theme I see.
People are intent on having DI "like in C#", so they copy all the downsides of the DI frameworks in such languages.
 
@Prismatic The only difference between choosing a class or a class template in such a situation is whether you can afford not to have the definitions in the header.
Number of constructors and/or whatever they do is not a factor.
Then again I’m very hungry and might be overlooking something.
 
I've actually meddled with this myself in my last project. I found myself writing all the dependency container plumbing, to placate our (C#) architect.
I ended up tossing the lot and going with static parameterization. (I didn't need to defend my choice ultimately)
 
7:41 AM
@sehe I've never used C# so I can't relate, but the class in question is already templated on a variadic... its pretty ugly.
 
Case closed :)
 
user1804599
@sehe you can do that in C# as well!
 
user1804599
Iff you can live with zero-parameter ctors. :v
 
Actually!
 
user1804599
C# generic constraints are really stupidly limited.
 
7:41 AM
You guis are right
Surprisingly
 
Yes, I’m very hungry.
 
@elyse So you mean, you can do it in CLR?
 
user1804599
I don't think the CLR offers more constraints than C# does.
 
@elyse So, then I don't get the relevance of default ctors
 
user1804599
The only features I know the CLR supports but C# doesn't are guaranteed TCO and methods outside of classes.
 
7:43 AM
Also, loungecpp.net seems pretty... Sparse. Nobody working on it? Could have some cool Lounge shit there.
 
I'll just configure it completely at compile time
That's much better
 
@MaiLongdong you sure you don't need different objects to have different locking policies? :]
 
@ElimGarak afaik Cat is the admin of that site
 
> What is the meaning of "flex" in flex_barrier? It's unclear how the name of the class relates to its functionality.
Funny national body comments.
 
@Prismatic I think I prefer to determine that statically
 
7:46 AM
@Morwenn It's a good remark, I'd say (without knowing the context)
 
Ah, might do some experimenting this weekend to see if you guys like it, I guess the thing is open to PRs on GitHub.
Particularly in the style & functionality department. Without making Cat mad.
 
user1804599
@sehe unless you want to pass objects to ctors.
 
@sehe The funny thing is that there's no proposed resolution.
It's true that the name is not descriptive.
 
Hi guyz
 
user1804599
I thought you wanted class A<T> where T : B, T : new() { private readonly B b; public A() { b = new T(); }
 
7:47 AM
> Microsoft and Oracle embraced an AWS-like vision of the cloud, and VMware has gradually added more and more cloudy features
@Morwenn how is that funny? Naming is hard.
Review is not co-authorship
 
It just says "we do more stuff than barrier".
 
Or maybe not. I can't tell
 
Ell
It sounds like you've paid a little extra for your barrier
 
@sehe Yes, but it's almost the first time I see a national body comment without a proposed change.
 
@elyse Ah. Now I get your drift
 
Ell
7:48 AM
barrier, flex_barrier, pro_barrier
 
Is there a cleaner way to do std::bind(&Foo::bar,foo,_1,_2,_3...) without specifying the placeholders when you want to make a std::function with a signature that matches Foo::bar?
 
@Morwenn Naming is hard
 
@Rerito woah avatar change
what happened to the frog thing
 
Ell
@Prismatic generic lambda
 
7:49 AM
@Prismatic You're a bit late, it's been a few months
 
user1804599
C# static class is silly considering CLR supports namespace-level methods.
 
@TonyTheLion Indeed!
 
@Prismatic I have a mem_fn that has a ptm+receiver overload, unlike std::mem_fn.
 
user1804599
Maybe it's for VB.NET compat? Was VB.NET older than C#?
 
Ell
I think it was
 
7:49 AM
std::call_function_on_completion_barrier
 
@elyse in a way. But it's unlikely, because even in COM "shared" modules were effectively namespace less
 
user1804599
Nah, VB.NET is a year younger.
 
@LucDanton 'ptm'?
 
@Prismatic pointer-to-member
 
@elyse but the legacy of VB is older
 
user1804599
7:50 AM
I see.
 
user1804599
Perhaps it was just to please Java programmers.
 
Does someone still have a copy of the docs regarding Kyrostat? I want to go down memory lane.
7
 
I didn't know about std::mem_fn... neat
 
@Prismatic Pointer to member
@Prismatic Yeah, but not applicable. There really is no out-of-the-box solution. lemme look up Boost though
 
@elyse I think so. OOP!
 
7:51 AM
> Function template std::mem_fn generates wrapper objects for pointers to members, which can store, copy, and invoke a pointer to member
 
@LucDanton AFAIR boost allows mem_fn(&X::datamember)
 
why is it not applicable?
 
Good day every body.
 
welp, it’s a boring pre-Standard one
 
user1804599
@sehe The HotSpot's source repo has a directory which contains source files that implement the object model. It's called "oops".
 
7:52 AM
Filed under "Trivia"
 
@Prismatic You want to store the receiver alongside the (adapted) ptm.
 
user1804599
They also use "OOP" as a non-mass noun all over the place.
 
user1804599
Referring to "an OOP".
 
Xeo
@sehe so does the stdlib
 
Probably thecoshman has them on Google drive somewhere.
 
7:53 AM
@Xeo oh ok :) I didn't check
 
I don't know that there was docs for Kyrostat
 
oh, I see. std::mem_fn needs the object when you invoke and doesnt copy a reference to it during construction
 
> He was able to fix that by removing the synchronization methods, but sadly that appeared to uncover a host of other existing bugs he was working to fix. He was flabbergasted when we suggested removing the synchronization methods might be the bugs.
lol
@Prismatic indeed, that would be "bind"; but I thought this was exactly what you asked (implicit placeholder)?
 
@TonyTheLion Quite a bit, but especially the primary design doc. I remember 5-6 people working on it in realtime.
 
@ElimGarak oh I don't remember that part
 
7:55 AM
I never work on docs in realtime. Much prefer virtual time
 
I only remember writing 1 line of code for it, ever
 
@Prismatic Yeah, boring::mem_fn(ptm)(r, a, b, c) == bind(ptm, _1, …, _N)(r, a, b, c) whereas cool::mem_fn(ptm, r)(a, b, c) == bind(ptm, r, _1, …_N)(a, b, c).
 
Ell
I prefer CPU time
 
@TonyTheLion What was the line? Into CREDITS.txt?
 
hello folks
 
7:57 AM
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb so much rep :O
 
@ElimGarak fairly sure I have a copy of all of the doc stuff yeah
 
@thecoshman Plx publish. :Đ
 
you should still have access
 
why does GCC print "-nan" and other compilers yield nan?
 
7:58 AM
give me some time to sort my shit out, just into work, then I'll get on it
 
intel and clang at least yield nan unlike gcc
 
No prob!
 
it must be some weird reason right?
@Prismatic i collected them all when SO was still in the baby times :p
 
@sehe No, it was like #include<boost/asio.h> or something of that sort
 
Xeo
@LucDanton I always called that easy_bind.
 
7:59 AM
now I call it redundant bind
just lambda-ize it
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb In the IEEE754 article on wiki, it says NaN can have the sign bit set to 0 or 1
so maybe gcc has it set to 1 and when it prints it out, you see the negative?
 
i know, but why have they chosen -nan.. make no sense huh
yes
 
@ElimGarak and ffs learn to use chat properly
 
@thecoshman It's been a long time! :P
 
@Xeo It’s really partial application if you consider INVOKE to be the expected behaviour.
 
8:02 AM
@ElimGarak it's not that hard :P
 
@thecoshman thats what she...
 
:\ installing software that might take down the network connection when I am remoted in... this could go bad
I don't think this was too smart
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb hey, just noticed:
> In one of my previous posts I showed some code that accesses a private member, that now has been posted on the boost mailing list as a possible utility for boost serialization to access private attributes (OH MY, I had no idea such a thing actually could have uses!).
Where is that suggestion? I can probably add my own approach (here stackoverflow.com/a/30595430/85371, option 3). I presume the "hack" is what Tanner used here:
As always, a complete great answer. Also, while not breaking encapsulation, and likely a complete violation of trust, this approach demonstrates serializing private member variables. As best as I can tell, it is spec compliant. I have sadly had to use this when dealing with third-party libraries. ): — Tanner Sansbury Jun 3 at 5:33
(so much edit fail. It hurts)
 
yeah looks like it's that "hack" :D
 
Awful awful.
 
8:09 AM
The whole inherit and mangle ptms in a static member function dance?
 
:)
@LucDanton I don't seen inheritance being used in that sample, though
 
@sehe you mean where the mailing list post is?
 
don’t remember what that one was for then
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Yesh
 
Gosh I'm having an horrible day trying to set up a good environment with vim
 
8:14 AM
Setting up vim takes me ~3 minutes
And no, I don't store my dotfiles somewhere centrally
That's cheating
 
Curious way to spell 'sensible'.
 
@sehe What's your secret?
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb LOL. The obvious keyword there
 
Basically I'm trying to set autocompletion for Java and C++ through tag files generated by ctags. So far, its working. But the java autocompletion is taking ages and I suspect its because I use a single huge tag files that gathers C++/Java/Python tags of the project
 
Brilliant idea: build several tag files, one for each language. Now the struggle: let vim automatically find the appropriate tag files
 
@Rerito Stay close to vanilla. See livecoding.tv/video/sehe/playlists/…
 
@sehe I suspect my company's network policies won't allow me to watch this :|
Gonna have to do it @ home
 
I may have linked the wrong vod there - around 42'30" at least you can see my vimrc. I should have a vod where I install vim and plugins from scratch though
 
Clone and direct to repo :v
 
8:33 AM
I'm starring this for later, since I cannot get the vid to play
 
18 mins ago, by sehe
That's cheating
 
lol
 
@Rerito maybe star just one, so it's not so noisy
 
Fair enough. Thanks :)
 
@sehe Not at all! This is all using a D VCS.
 
8:35 AM
I know right. But configuring from scratch is from scratch
 
I should clean up my .vimrc one of these days...
 
Oh my live envs have accumulated cruft too.
It's just I need only very little
 
So in short you only use the built in omnicomplete functions?
 
No. The vid shows downloading, compiling, configuring YouCompleteMe (which does C++ and C# afaik)
No fucking with ctags (I still use it, but not for completion. Too weak)
 
Problem is my project is a huge mess. YouCompleteMe would be so lost!
 
8:41 AM
It'd probably just need lots of RAM for ycmd. :P
 
@Rerito try it, first
I have not found many occassions where YCM is lost. Just slower, maybe.
 
Ell
My ycm gets confused some times
 
The most notable "issue" is when typing struct X { X() : memer(... at this point autocompletion doesn't work. You have to struct X { X() : member {} }; and then go back to complete the initializer list if you need completion there
 
Ell
Not sure why
 
Hello peeps
 
8:51 AM
@ElimGarak oh dear
 
There it is!
 
oh wait, no just log in :P
forgot it was kept private
there's a google doc file, but I think everything it has was moved out
 
version history is native in google docs
 
you still using that double buffer email? if so, you should still have access
@sehe sure, but the content is in BitBucket now any way... apparently
so... is is Zombostat being resurrected yet again?
 
1/10 would not laugh again
 
8:57 AM
Sharing my defeat on time management.
 
@thecoshman I think I'll make something work first and then share it with you guys in the next month or two. If it's not shit, the old crew will probably jump in.
 
@MarkGarcia lol. Is there a way to do rankings?
 
There are results.
I would want sharing though.
 
@ElimGarak it's the way to do it :P
 

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