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4:00 PM
@sbi depends, are they hot?
 
sbi
@SamDeHaan That's just because you're and indecisive lad!
 
@jalf Well, we will never know if that is true, are we? Beside that, even if we knew that still does not remove future mating potential for the future.
 
sbi
@thecoshman I'm sure they aren't cold after running >40km.
 
@sbi deciding not to decide is still a decision!
 
4:01 PM
@wilx In every meaningful sense of the word, a person is not your prospective mate if that person does not want to be. Suggesting otherwise leads to some fairly unpleasant places and I suggest we do not go there
 
sbi
@SamDeHaan Yeah, just like not doing anything is still doing something: nothing.
 
@sbi one of my favorite things.
 
@jalf So, basically what you are saying is never comment on anybody's looks or attire?
 
sbi
4 mins ago, by jalf
Here's a crazy idea: if you're on a date with someone, flirt away. If you're listening to a talk by someone, comment on the talk, not the appearance of the speaker. It's kind of that simple.
 
@wilx No, basically I am saying don't comment on someone's looks or attire unless it is relevant.
 
sbi
4:02 PM
Is that really that hard?
 
Xeo
Imagine the talker is a flat screen with a robotic voice
 
@sbi She didn't say that.
 
Context is a notion used in the language sciences (linguistics, sociolinguistics, systemic functional linguistics, discourse analysis, pragmatics, semiotics, etc.) in two different ways, namely as verbal context social context == Verbal context == Verbal context refers to the text or speech surrounding an expression (word, sentence, or speech act). Verbal context influences the way an expression is understood; hence the norm of not citing people out of context. Since much contemporary linguistics takes texts, discourses, or conversations as the object of analysis, the modern study of verbal context...
 
@Xeo Don't flirt with me!
 
Xeo
Robot, go home
3
 
4:02 PM
Just talk about what is relevant. When someone is being professional, talk about what is professionally relevant. When someone is being sexy, talk about how sexy they are. :p
 
@sbi Mmm. This I think conflicts a bit with your earlier "How would that make you feel" point. I think it's fair to assume that at some point, Scott must/might have gotten a little tired of this.
The redeeming circumstance, of course, is that Scott likely doesn't encounter this kind of comment everywhere he appears (from supermarket to the dentist's). I feel he's accepted it and perhaps even invited it as a sort of involuntary brand
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nope. She just said she'd be the one to get everybody laid.
 
This room is full of fat ugly nerds. Surely people here of all places can understand that sometimes you might not want people to comment on your appearance?
 
@Xeo he'll get lost :(
 
sbi
4:03 PM
@sehe I can assure you he isn't. In fact, he just made jokes about his hair in December.
 
@jalf It is relevant to me, apparently. I simply dislike her dress in that particular video.
 
Fuck me. The sexist/wardrobe/hairstyle thing is still on:(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I didn't say everyone in this room ;)
 
> This room is full of fat ugly nerds.
I'm not fat
 
You've met me. I might be a nerd, and possibly ugly. But fat?
 
4:03 PM
but thanks for asking
 
@MartinJames Gotta burn the witch
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes If you're fat, I should already be dead
 
I wear my thin privilege proudly.
 
@jalf Or comment that maybe if they dressed a little more appropriately for the job, they could have pulled a better punch (some clothes can really prevent the upper body from moving freely!)
 
Even if people see your appearance as something positive, they still might not want you to judge them on it, even if it's only one out of a number of things you judge them by. They might just want their appearance to be irrelevant and none of your business
 
4:04 PM
If that ever makes sense.
 
Someone shoot me now..
 
"this room is full of X" != "everyone in this room is X"
sheesh people :p
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'll cover you on that front.
 
@MartinJames pew pew pew
 
Aarrghhh! ....................
 
4:05 PM
@sbi I know this. I'm just open to the idea that Scott, too, might at some time have been less than happy about one or two of those Proverbial Youtube Comments
 
@jalf Similarly like theatre play critiques criticize theatre plays even thought they could not act to save their lives, I think I can say something about somebody's attire even though I am not able to sew or look good to save my life.
 
sbi
@sehe I dunno. As I said, he keeps inviting those comments. (In fact, he wanted to have dinner not only with me, but also with my kids, so he would meet them. I asked the two oldest ones, and they agreed, so they met him. Commenting on his weird hair was almost the first thing he said to them.)
 
@wilx Sure, you can. But it is disrespectful of you to judge people on something that is none of your business. Critiquing a theatre play is relevant because... that's largely what theatre plays are for. When you get on a stage, it is to be seen and to make people form an impression of you and your role
 
@sbi He's made that choice. I happen to think that choice is easier to make if it's about your hairdo than when you're being spotted as a MILF
@sbi Yup these things can be nice ice breakers (I use my beard for that. And totally lame unexpected jokes, because kids will laugh when caught off guard)
 
When someone is a speaker at some talk, they are there to speak. Not to be judged on their dress sense.. It is not about whether you have the skills and knowledge to judge them fairly. It is a question of why the fuck do you feel the need to judge this aspect of them right here and right now?
 
sbi
4:09 PM
@wilx You got this wrong. A better analogy would be when theater critics would comment on the apartments of some actor, which is equally irrelevant for their performance as their state of a potential mate for you.
 
@jalf I do not know but you will not doubt tell me why.
 
OK, maybe something is happening in the PHP room..
 
@wilx No. Instead, I will say "if you do not even know why you do it, and if it can come across as disrespectful and demeaning, why not refrain from doing it?"
 
sbi
@sehe I flaunt my weight. :)
 
I'm not in the business of telling people what they think. :p
 
4:10 PM
5 mins ago, by sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'll cover you on that front.
 
(only what they should think... ;))
 
@sbi Yes, you do :P
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, that's what made me write this.
 
@Xeo Why? :(
 
Xeo
8 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@sbi She didn't say that.
 
4:11 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's weird to think I haven't a clue what you look like.
Though I kind of imagine this...
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes I found it very helpful if you flaunt your errors. That makes everyone demeaning you for it a lame joker.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit inb4 bender
 
1 hour ago, by sehe
Let me count you the weighs
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I look like this: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/…
At least part of me.
And at least when I'm wearing my Forbidden Planet T-shirt.
 
4:12 PM
nice dress
wait, fuck, I'm being sexist....
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes And what's that thing carrying you?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you are really bad at context.
 
lol
oh god I'm agreeing with LRIO, it's your fault, you did this
13
 
@jalf actually, I'm fine with that. But I expect the commenter to be fine when I ask whether that is in any way a funny first observation
 
4:14 PM
@sbi I don't look that hot.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes You wish.
 
Drop her like she's hot!
 
I wish I don't?
Are you coming on to me?
 
:D That was on purpose, no doubt
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes aren't we all?
how can anyone resist you?
 
sbi
4:15 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Like a 400lb gorilla...
 
@jalf I could ask that to several girls, I guess.
 
sbi
Ugh. I am tired again. I think I need to have another nap.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :p
 
sbi
What's there to laugh about me being sick?
 
@sbi This makes me grin so widely. I just think that's so genuinely nice. Funny how small things like that can make people feel at home.
 
4:16 PM
@sbi hope you feel better soon!
 
sbi
@sehe ???
 
@jalf with the properly oriented magnet
 
Actually, not that many, but still.
 
I don't have to ask
 
sbi
@jalf Thanks (and to everybody else, too). I hope so, too. I will have to take care of the kids tonight, after all. Sigh.
 
4:17 PM
Does this quote from here clarify it at all for you: Requiring shared_ptr and weak_ptr to always synchronize the use count makes it potentially slow and is inconsistent with the general approach to leave the synchronization to the user of a facility. Shafik Yaghmour 8 mins ago
 
@sbi I dunno. I can just see the picture. I can't help but love that ability to be lovable. The times I feel so free are nice times. Nothing weird intended here (except that it's normally not said?)
 
rip me I still don't get it
 
@AndyProwl that is seriously obscure
 
sbi
@sehe You think I'm lovable? You should talk to the robot about this. Or your therapist.
 
@sbi I can't know. I just imagined the scene you conjured up (with a smiley) and I imagined it to be very lovable, yes.
This should tell you essential things about the way I imagine things :)
 
sbi
4:20 PM
@sehe Oh. What scene are you talking about? You were linking to a comment about my weight.
 
@sbi You're a lovable ass.
4
Wait, that came out wrong.
 
@sbi Actually. I thought that message was more about you flaunting it.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes And I bet you polished it long, so it would.
 
Well whatever. Just imagine me smiling broadly there, and let's hope it comes out right.
 
you guys are getting soft
 
4:22 PM
That's what you get after polishing a lovable ass
 
sbi
@JohanLarsson Fat people are soft.
 
and cold
 
Really. This makes me think about this for the first time.
 
sbi
@JohanLarsson No, I'm actually the one who always feels warm.
Except now I'm shivering again. :(
No, really. I feel worse every minute. I need to sleep now. Fades out...
 
but have you touched a fat woman?
 
4:24 PM
@jalf Because I refuse to agree that it is inherently disrespectful. I have not said it in any crude or vulgar manner. It was only a part of my observation (or judgement, if you want) and the other part was about the talk being interesting. I simply do not think I have said anything that required the kind of response it got. The worst that I would expect is disagreement about the attire being pretty or not, not this feminist crusade.
I reserve the right to speak as I wish in certain bounds of acceptable behaviour which I think I have not crossed.
I have to drive home now. BBL.
 
I do believe it's time for plonking.
 
feminists are rarely hot right?
@SamDeHaan who for what?
 
Sure about that? __uint128_t user_id = __uint128_t(str.c_str()); works perfectly on Apple LLVM version 6.0 (clang-600.0.56). — Daniel W 40 mins ago
...
I don't even
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes This is sexist and harassment. Crucify him!1
 
@wilx Quite right too. I suggest just ignoring the over-the-top PC zealots. It appears that they have something to prove, but don't let them take you down with them.
 
4:31 PM
@JohanLarsson Howdy.
You in Sweden, right?
Mind if I ask whereabouts?
 
200 km north of Stockholm
Why?
 
Do you think that area is pretty, Johan?
 
I'll be in Stockholm for the most part of February 22.
 
@wilx Who gives a fuck what you would "expect"? A lot of women do find this behavior demeaning, whether you like it or not. I would find this behavior demeaning if it was aimed at me. But it isn't, because I'm not a woman, so I don't have to deal with people thinking they have the right to comment on what I look like at all times as i that was relevant.
2
 
4:33 PM
If you lived there we could meet, perhaps.
 
hmm, too far away for dinner. Otherwise gf would cook something nice.
 
@wilx However, I find it telling that you define "acceptable behavior" by what you want to subject others to, and not by what others want to be subjected to.
3
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Who would know, this time of year? Maybe through night-vision goggles?
 
@JohanLarsson I'll probably pass nearby, but will be on the train, non-stop to Kiruna.
 
Business or pleasure in Kiruna?
The ice hotel is close and pretty nice. If they still have it.
 
4:35 PM
Pleasure (or torture depending on your POV), further north.
Abisko.
 
@JohanLarsson Y'know, you really shouldn't say things like that. Beauty is not relevant to anything. Instead, prefer to discuss the intellectual and cultural features of the area. You placeist!
 
Ooh, cool. Sweden is nice
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wow, you really do plan ahead huh
 
5 hours ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@jalf I'm planning out stuff that happens 5 years from now!
5 hours ago, hehe.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I thought strawmanning was beneath you.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Short days there this time of the year. Going skiing or snowmobiling?
 
4:36 PM
Just chasing the aurora.
 
how many days?
 
Not sure it is visible every night.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's a joke
 
4:38 PM
int a = 2;
const int& b = a;
static_assert(std::is_const<decltype(b)>{}, "FAILS");
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes This time you're planning seven years ahead
 
FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
 
@JohanLarsson I know. I've researched it and picked what seemed to hold the highest probabilities.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit yep, is_const doesn't work with references, you have to remove_reference_t before..
 
4:39 PM
Abisko/Björkliden is probably a nice spot. Much less snow and cloudy nights there. Regnsskugga (rain shadow)
 
It's about the same latitude as Murmansk. Please never suggest an unconference there.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes going alone?
 
"const int& const x =... doesn't make sense because all reference are const"
- std::is_const disagrees
 
> There has been a significant increase in the amount of water "pouring" out of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko, the comet on which the Rosetta mission's Philae lander touched down in November 2014.
See, now you have it. That Philae lander breached the hull and now it's gonna burst like a balloon. Many space kids very sad
 
4:41 PM
@JohanLarsson 'Twas the initial plan but surprisingly two friends decided to join, so no.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Group madness:(
 
@gnzlbg "doesn't make sense" isn't equal to "is the same type"
@gnzlbg Like const&& makes no sense, but you can - very much - overload on it
 
@sehe I mean† that writing it makes no sense, it is already that way (so yes, it is the same type)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Two things you can do in daytime. 1) Rent snowmobiles, I can check for places if you are interested. 2)Take a drive to the ice hotel. ~150 km drive from Abisko. I think it is worth it.
 
@sehe What do you think of "Operations that influence the result of use_count() do not introduce data races" ? Is it how I should interpret it?
 
4:42 PM
@gnzlbg I'm surprised decltype(b) results in a reference type
 
The downhill skiing in Riksgränsen is ok
<- afk
 
@JohanLarsson I should have thought of the ice hotel before, I guess. I could have designed the trip differently: fly to Kiruna, spend the night there, train to Abisko the next day.
 
I have actually seen the Nothern lights. You haven't lived until you've heard 'Aurora Borealis' spoken with a Glaswegian accent.
 
@gnzlbg References are never const
 
@AndyProwl I dunno. It's how I made sense of it in the end (other interpretations didn't add value, could just be deleted, AFAICT)
 
4:43 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit why? given a name, decltype gives you the declaration type for that name
 
Sounds better than going to Abisko and backtracking to see the ice hotel.
 
@gnzlbg Even if they were, that would still not be a good argument. It would be like saying that mutable int x (in a local decl) makes no sense just because the mutable is redundant
 
But we'll see.
 
@AndyProwl That's decltype(()), I think.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Cv-qualified references are ill-formed except when the cv-qualifiers are introduced through the use of a typedef-name (7.1.3, 14.1) or decltype-specifier (7.1.6.2), in which case the cv-qualifiers are ignored.
 
4:44 PM
@AndyProwl And b names an int. That's how references work.
@gnzlbg Yes, I am aware.
 
It is ignored because you cannot change to which value the reference references to
 
@Puppy b is an id-expression for a name declared to be int const&, so decltype returns int const&
 
@gnzlbg I am also aware of that.
 
so practically it means they are const in that they cannot be changed
 
The fact that you cannot reseat references does not mean they are const.
 
4:45 PM
and if you make them const, the const is ignored
 
You cannot "make them const", because the const is ignored
 
@gnzlbg const int& const x =... doesn't make sense because references are not objects.
 
@Puppy decltype(id) always returns the declaration type of id
 
const int* const x analogy
 
@gnzlbg still doesn't make the const. Like char is not signed just because it is not unsigned
Not zero sum. Or dual
 
4:45 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes you can drive to see it in one day np.
 
Yeah, just feels wrong.
 
Not sure staying there is that great.
 
But I'll bring it up.
 
so references are never const, but the value pointed to by the reference (or aliased, or whatever you name it) cannot be changed (so they are not const but are constier than pointers)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's the clearest way you can put it. So, a reference is immutable anyway, so it's non-const by definitioin
 
4:47 PM
@gnzlbg References are not reseatable, period.
 
@gnzlbg that's very confusingly worded. The value "pointed to"? Na, you meant the value it points to
 
Next you'll be telling me that macros are const
 
References are not objects. They can't be const objects.
 
inb4 "no because you can undef and re def them"
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Are literals const?
 
4:47 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's even further distilled. I like it
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but the type can be const?
 
@FredOverflow String literals are!
 
@sehe Ok, so I'm glad I caught up after X hours. However, I do not see how the fact that refcount updates are atomic (because that's all it means under that interpretation) should prevent the expired() loop from being optimized away
 
@gnzlbg You want a type that can't possibly describe anything?
 
@FredOverflow Or, rather, the elements of a string literal are const
 
4:48 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit The array object is top-level const. You want the DR?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes i just expected is_const<const int&> to return true, it feels extremely weird that it isn't.
 
ah wait new answer
 
@Columbo Is it?
 
@AndyProwl of course you do, because atomics end up inserting barriers that cannot be optimized. If they don't, that's a bug
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit yes. :) there was a DR or EWG issue.
To do with partial ordering.
IIRC.
 
4:49 PM
Well see this is interesting too
because arrays themselves are not const but cannot be resized
 
@AndyProwl No, atomic is the wrong word.
 
it is the elements contained therein that may have constiness
 
@Columbo oooh
 
I'm hungry
 
@sehe Well, the type, rather.
 
4:49 PM
@sehe only when using sequential consistency. With relaxed semantics, only atomicity is guaranteed
 
@CatPlusPlus me too
oh god I'm agreeing with cat; it's your fault; you did this
 
@AndyProwl They can't cause races. Race occurs when reads and writes to the same memory location happen without being sequenced. So races being forbidden effectively forces sequencing.
 
@gnzlbg it works the same as with const int*.
 
@AndyProwl Data races are about sequencing, not atomicity, though. Forget atomicity.
 
@gnzlbg I can see how it might be a bit annoying to have to remove the reference type yourself, but I think this makes perfect sense and is, largely, intuitive.
 
4:51 PM
@AndyProwl but not with const int * const, a reference T& will be implemented with a T *const internally, so to me it just made sense that they are always const, the fact that you cannot make them const is because they are const by default, but TIL
 
@AndyProwl Relaxed loads don't establish sequence relations, so they can cause data races.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Perhaps this is the root of my troubles. I thought relaxed loads on atomics would not cause data races. After all, they are atomics.
 
Anyhow, every day a new WTF with type_traits, yesterday with common_type...
common_type<int&, int&> -> int
 
@AndyProwl Atomicity only guarantees that the values are indivisible.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes How does that differ from "there are no data races"?
 
4:52 PM
holy shit, this whole idea of "arguments to functions are in some global array" of perl is so goddamn stupid
 
@gnzlbg because pointers are objects
 
@AndyProwl Races are about loads and stores having an order. Such an order will lead to atomicity implicitly, but it is stronger.
 
@sehe and references are non-reseteable (immutable/const) aliases to objects?
 
yes
@Jefffrey wut. Global? You mean that the name is globally available? It just doesn't refers different arrays in different lexical scopes obviously
 
@AndyProwl Sequence relations guarantee that changes are visible, and under which conditions they are.
 
4:54 PM
so the fact that they both are and are not implicitly const at the same time is _really_weird, schroedinger didnt have a cat, he had a damn C++ reference
 
Xeo
Hooome
 
@sehe it refers to the same array
@_
 
Xeo
Vacatioooon
wheee
 
i'll just need to burn "references are not objects" in my brain
 
My savings account is terribl
 
4:55 PM
never had the need to do that before
 
Dropped to 1.37%
 
@gnzlbg It's mildly interesting. It's more interesting that you learned the default response of is_const there (which is: non-const)
 
@AndyProwl Without a sequence relation, atomic writes are not guaranteed to ever be seen elsewhere. Being atomic, however, guarantees that if they are observed elsewhere, they are observed as indivisible changes, never partial.
 
@Jefffrey That's an identifier
@CatPlusPlus Wait till it reaches $1.37
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes But it is admissible for them to not be observed at all, so why is it illegal to change the loop into a while(true)?
 
4:56 PM
@sehe which is populated with the last arguments of the last call
 
@AndyProwl Because the standard doesn't require atomics. It requires no data races.
 
185
Stack Overflow (in German)

Proposed Q&A site for q&A site for German-speaking programming community (Fragen&Antworten Seite für deutschsprachige Programmierergesellschaft).

Currently in commitment.

great, more stack overflows
 
so if I'm in a nested function I can't get to the outer function first argument, unless I explicitly bind it somewhere.
 
i already knew that is_const<T> -> false, is_const<const T> ->true, what was surprising is that T (ignored: const)& -> false, because T& isn't an object and isn't const (although being immutable)

I just always thought that T & const was illegal because T& was already const (and this was the reason behind it being ignored)
 
"No data races" is more or less the same as "all loads and stores are sequenced".
 
4:57 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes but how does it imply that a different thread will eventually see the results of those operations?
 
@Jefffrey that's quite the abuse of lexical scope. You mean, the inner @_ /hides/ the outer @_. Doesn't make it global (that would be unusable and silly)
 
@sehe yes, I meant that
 
@Jefffrey Nope. Identifiers cannot be filled. Arrays are filled. Identifiers are looked up in a scope and resolve to one of those arrays
@Jefffrey Ah. I forgot about lexical scoping in perl and how it would be annoying. You're quite right. Still, it's not as bad as "ermagad the arguments are some kind of global array".
 
@Jefffrey Welcome to dumb implicit magic variables
 
4:59 PM
@CatPlusPlus Some of them are nice. _1 and _2 are not completely dissimilar IMO
 
even C gets it right
 
Plus it's dynamic scoping (sorta) not 'global'
 
is perl older than C?
 

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