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3:00 PM
@sehe oh I see...
no
 
meh I'm totally clueless
2
fuck you Standard
 
@sbi Geezus fucking Krist...
 
@AndyProwl If they don't cause data races, they will be ordered with respect to all other writes and reads to it.
 
lol damn starrers
 
@wilx That escalated quickly!
 
sbi
3:03 PM
@wilx Look, have you ever talked in front of an audience? 20 people? 200 people? With cameras? Prepared yourself well to impress them with your knowledge and arguments? And then, in the comments, someone says "yeah, his talk was pretty interesting, but these shoes he wears I don't like." And then, comment after comment, just about what you look like and what you wear. And people don't talk about your technical arguments, just about your look. How would you feel?
 
@sbi I do not judge her by her dress alone. I think she is quite pretty, actually. I have watched the whole video. She is clearly a smart and funny person. I do realise her value is not determined by her dress at that point in time alone. I have never for a second thought that. I simply dislike her dress and I said it here, in relatively closed community. Deal with it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes But "don't cause data race" to me just means "atomic", which per se does not (?) imply sequential consistency or constraints on ordering
 
@sbi What if it's a talk about foot fashion?
:P
 
@AndyProwl It took me ~12s to see the intended meaning too. (I hate when that happens). But really, if it was meant in the way that you initially read it (like me), it would be a completely cavalier observation. The way I ended up "getting" it, was that the particular comment was saying "you keep your fingers off the pointee, because you don't want to cause a data race" - implying that "not causing a race" with the use_count itself is responsibility of the implementation
 
@AndyProwl Without ordering there are races.
 
sbi
3:05 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Then you, being a robot who repairs his shows with USB cables, should do yourself a favor and keep the fuck out of the conversation? :)
 
Good point.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You mean without "sequencing"?
 
I'm not sure that I've ever seen an ugly mathematician of either sex. I didn't know they even had sexes. They were just blobs of stuff at the front of the lecture theatre, pointing at projections and saying stuff, interfering with my drinking time.
 
@AndyProwl Ah, whatever it is the standard calls it.
 
@sehe 12 seconds? Well done, it's two minutes and counting for me
 
3:06 PM
@wilx This. "I do not judge her by her dress alone. I think she is quite pretty, actually". That sequence is so jarring. It's painful. Anything you say beyond that cannot repair the damage. And you've done it twice now, consciously. That's... interesting
 
@sehe What? Why?
 
@AndyProwl It feels a bit like those perspective drawings where - if you look closely/long enough at a certain point, it will flip around.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes But I think that's the point: guaranteeing that there is sequencing (i.e. no data race, atomic access) is not the same as guaranteeing no reordering by the compiler or CPU or store buffer (unless sequential consistency is specified)
 
Jan 8 at 12:57, by Lightness Races in Orbit
@BartekBanachewicz if I need to explain it to you then you will not understand
 
sbi
@wilx I understand that. And I do not think you are a bad person because of it. However, it is bad. I happen to follow a few tech women on Twitter and have heard how sick they are about this kind of stuff. And all it takes in order to fix this, is a bit awareness and thought.
 
3:07 PM
Who'd have known. Me, quoting LRIO
 
@sehe You could at least try.
 
@wilx I did.
 
@AndyProwl That's guaranteed by the spec of use_count. It isn't defined in terms of operations that can be reordered. It's defined based on program state.
 
@sehe Second time today!
 
sbi
@wilx FFS, haven't you read anything we wrote in the last ten minutes?!
 
3:08 PM
@wilx I'm happy with it taking more time. Doesn't mean I have to somehow convince you to see my point (of view)
 
sbi
@AndyProwl Are you the accountant around here nowadays?
 
@sbi Give it time. He's honestly not seeing it. Yet.
 
@sbi I am. Shall I count anything for you?
 
@AndyProwl Really. That's even more surprising. Making me think
Let me count you the weighs
 
sbi
@sehe Oh no! We can't have that!
 
3:09 PM
I have been ignoring the whole race/atomic/reordering shit. I'm still coming to grips with mathematicians having sexes.
3
 
sbi
@AndyProwl How many sheep would it take to let me go back to sleep now?
 
@AndyProwl Number of times he hurts my feelings.
 
I placed pizza in one of my answers
0
A: What are real world uses of secondary key bindings?

Alex M.These help in situations where a certain control scheme is easier to use than another. It's especially useful if you can map some action to a key and a mouse button at the same time. You can map movement and jumping in an FPS to the extra mouse buttons and use the other hand to eat pizza! It's e...

 
OK, let's reverse this. When and where is it OK to voice my opinion about her dress? Never? I refuse to accept that.
 
3:10 PM
> You can map movement and jumping in an FPS to the extra mouse buttons and use the other hand to eat pizza!
 
sbi
@MartinJames Can you pass a tissue, please. I need to wipe this monitor.
 
@sbi exactly n
 
@MartinJames racism and reordering are equally nuclear as the whole sexism thing
 
sbi
@AndyProwl Trying to weasel out of this one, are we?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Today? Twice?
 
3:11 PM
@sbi admittedly
I know the problem though
 
@wilx It's always ok. And it's also noteworthy. It's ok if others are perceptive of what you remark.
 
Once I counted to 2000 and beyond
 
@Jefffrey Perl already has map.
 
then I gave up trying to sleep
 
> A title is required.
FFS WHY WHY THE FUCK IS A TITLE REQUIRED
 
sbi
3:12 PM
@sehe Who's he? The Great Hurter of Feelings isn't here right now, is he?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes hm, I'm lost in suckage. I need a teacher.
 
And if it is, why the fuck can't it be "Robot".
 
@sehe So what is discussion about?
 
@sbi Everything is relative
 
This is the kind of situations that makes me say I'm not that bright, and then people chime in and claim it's false modesty /cc @Bartek
 
sbi
3:13 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because he seems to fail?
> My modesty isn't false. I am that dumb.
 
@wilx You could have defused it by putting things in perspective. You did so, twice, by saying "Gee it's just the dress; obviously that's not what I judge her by as a person. In fact, I think she's pretty". <think about it/>
 
There is only one reason to want me to specify a title: you want to treat me in some manner that I supposedly appreciate. Not letting me choose arbitrarily goes against that.
It's not like you give special promotions only to customers that are Mr, or Dr.
 
@wilx Even with the default one it doesn't print anything
 
Actually I'm a bit disappointed by the speech's content :/
 
Programmers are bad at forms
 
3:16 PM
@Jefffrey that's google maps
 
sbi
@Rerito You expected it to be more, uh, raunchy?
 
wat
 
@Rerito what? It doesn't model LGTBQVM?
 
@sbi I expected more maths
 
@Rerito it's a TEDx talk
 
sbi
3:16 PM
@Rerito Trying to weasel out of this one, are we?
 
@sbi That's what she said.
 
Half point awarded, points deducted for sloppy technique
 
god Perspectives servers are so unreliable
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, that's what i said. Twice in the last five minutes.
 
@sehe I don't know TEDx. The feeling I got in the end is that it's a speech to sensitise people about maths (which is a perfectly noble pursuit as well)
 
sbi
3:17 PM
@sehe Oh, now that you say this, I see it, too! </sarcasm>
 
:D
 
@sbi That would be a TEDxxx talk.
 
@sbi Ohhhh are you implying I expected her to have a more sexualized speech? That's sexist and I'm offended
 
@Rerito That's very TEDx-y. They're always inspirational, motivational, life experience sharing, often (but certainly not always) themed around tech/schience
@R.MartinhoFernandes Zing!
 
It's a talk not a lecture
 
sbi
3:20 PM
@Rerito Good!
 
It's an instructional video http://i.imgur.com/uCgSYCm.png
(just happened to be my screen pause because I got a call)
 
@sehe I do not see the problem. Again, in no particular order: I dislike her dress, I think she is pretty, funny and smart. And I have expressed that here, not to her. WTF is wrong with that?
 
@wilx Yes, let's build a small closed environment where we all accept casual sexism, that's a MUCH better idea.
 
@SamDeHaan How TF is that sexism? WTF?
 
3:22 PM
@wilx She wasn't wearing a dress you boob
 
Are we now as a society not allowed to voice our opinions about inconsequential things like somebody's dress just because the person happens to be of the opposite sex?
 
@wilx If you disregard the other parties in the conversation, those would all just be neutral remarks. However, a conversation is made up from the contributions of both sides, so this implies that what you say gets a meaning in relation to that.
At first you made me raise my eye brows. And then you made me very amused by not getting it.
 
When I get an unreproducible bug
 
@thecoshman Isn't a dress everything one wear when taken as whole?
 
3:23 PM
No stupid reddit memes
 
@wilx Are we now a chat group where everything can be derailed by firing the properly mirrored rhetoric question at the right frequency?
 
@wilx the issue at hand is if the speaker were male, you would not likely say "With context of his pants, I thought this about his speech"
 
@Rerito Doesn't that mean 'fixed'?
 
@MartinJames Exactly hehe
 
/We're not all Bartek/LRIO/
 
3:24 PM
@wilx it can be both :P
 
@SamDeHaan Yes, because I am male and I do not pay attention to other males in that way.
 
@thecoshman I suppose she might already be taken
 
@wilx I'm a straight male and I do
 
but you probably wanted 'clothes' or 'out fit'
 
@wilx lol
@wilx No because you are objectifying her by identifying any positive attributes that are not a direct result of her hard work and intelligence!
 
3:25 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes No one even took the bait :(
 
@Rerito Congratulations to your perceptiveness. A word of warning, do not voice your opinions about anybody's dress because it is apparently sexist now.
 
Remote desktops, not the greatest, but I can cope with them.
Remote desktops where the keys are badly mapped so that your normal actions now result in utter shite, a sure fire way to drive some one postal
 
@sehe 30 minutes and it hasn't flipped yet. I have a problem
I can't seem to make sense of that sentence
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit The feels.
 
@sehe Good excuse.
 
3:26 PM
@AndyProwl Nope. You have a weekend. Enjoy :)
 
@thecoshman Still the fucked up arrow + carret return?
 
@Rerito yes ¬_¬
 
sbi
@wilx Well, is it really so unbelievably hard for you to turn the table and think yourself in the position I described above, and all the women making only comments about your haircut etc., and none about your talk? What would you think? Fluffs!? Well, there you have what you just presented yourself as.
 
well, it's the down arrow that's mapped to return
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes hah, in the nick of time. Well done
 
3:27 PM
and del is screen print
who know's what else
 
@sehe A weekend on a sentence is a problem! :P
 
as you might have guessed, the del key is rather important for me.
 
sbi
@wilx That's nonsense. If it is a woman presenting dresses, an actor at a show, whatever, it'd be fine.
 
@AndyProwl No a weekend, to enjoy the fact that you're not the library implementor and /don't have to/ :L)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You make no sense either. I have identified positive attributes that are result of her hard work as well. And I have identified a single attribute that is not positive and a result of her hard work (unless she has sewn the dress by herself).
 
3:28 PM
@wilx I think so, but I usually use "attire".
 
Oh god. Deeper and deeper he digs. This is not Minecraft
 
@sbi I DID NOT MAKE COMMENTS ONLY ABOUT HER attire.
 
@sehe This won't let me sleep. Only alcohol can rescue me.
 
Xeo
I get no weekend. :<
Helping my friend move tomorrow. Into the flat below mine.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes of yeah, that's another good word
 
sbi
3:29 PM
@Xeo They don't have weekends in the smalltown you live in?
 
@sbi You have nitpicked and isolated from context a single sentence and now you are crucifying me for it. FU.
 
I like to call it gift wrap :P
 
@wilx Good! You're absolved now. It's not a big deal that you missed my (ant other's) point. I don't care much. There's not even a need to cry "unfair" about it.
 
@Xeo It'll either be great or a seriues PITA
 
@wilx It's sbi; wtf did you expect?
 
Xeo
3:30 PM
@thecoshman It's can't be anything but great
 
@wilx He's good isn't he
 
@AndyProwl Mmm. I presume you are as good as immune to those stuffs. Just guessing
 
@wilx I was being sarcastic, in your defence.
 
Xeo
We've been planning this since October
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Could we have some Schweppes with that?
 
3:30 PM
@Xeo Should take only a few seconds then.
 
Xeo
He'd have already moved in if the renovation work didn't take so long
 
@Xeo you're at the point of no return... <knock knock knock> hey lets do something buddy
 
@Rerito No because that is product placement and this is a publicly funded chatroom
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Thanks. The text is not conductive to sarcasm here. Or I fail to spot it. :)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't think you understand how things work...
 
3:30 PM
@sehe immune to alcohol?
 
btw schweppes make more than just bitter lemon
 
Xeo
@thecoshman He's as much of a nerd as me, so he wouldn't knock. He'd ping me on IRC
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I feel for you. Even though you can't hear me. I think that was a splendid move, and it's sad that he missed event the point of that.
 
I WANT MY SHARE
 
3:31 PM
NASA planned that trip to the moon for a few years
 
@wilx 90% of the time you may assume it with me :P
 
Not? I can be wrong too.
Apparently :)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you mean bassetts swcheppes cadburys and who knows who fucking else :P
 
@thecoshman And it took only three days!
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you boob it's privately owned
 
Xeo
3:32 PM
2 mins ago, by Xeo
He'd have already moved in if the renovation work didn't take so long
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you'd just leave them there? you monster!
 
@sehe I simply think you do not have a valid point.
 
@sehe How could alcohol rescue me if I was immune to it? I need my brain to be effectively fuc cast away from C++
 
Where's my money?!
 
in fact I should be focusing on work
 
3:33 PM
That reminds me of a scene in which Cpt America tries to get drunk
 
but shared pointers are preventing me
 
Shoot them.
 
@wilx I think I can prove you missed it. By the fact that you never addressed/acknowledged it in the first place, yet kept adding fuel. If you want to convince someone you're listening and get what the other is saying that doesn't happen.
@AndyProwl I was pointing out that conflict
 
sbi
@wilx Actually, this isn't what happened. What happened was that you asked "Is there a problem?", and I answered to that. Since then we're discussing things. In between, @sehe and I have even said you're not a bad person, you're just unaware. So nobody is crucifying you.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's not their fault. Sometimes I wish I could shoot those who write the Standard though.
 
3:36 PM
@wilx In my perception, you're climbing on a cross and making hammering movements with remote controlled hands suggesting crucifixion.
2
 
@AndyProwl It doesn't matter whose fault it is. What matters is what fixes the problem by being shot.
 
You could have defused it, you didn't. You could have left it, apparently you won't.
 
@sehe lol
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes What money? Did you misplace some?
 
3:39 PM
8 mins ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit
@Rerito No because that is product placement and this is a publicly funded chatroom
@sbi Also, yes.
In my other pants, I think.
 
sbi
How come I guessed?
 
I'm turning into a real-life Guybrush.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm afraid the only shot capable of fixing the problem would be the one pointed to my head, although I don't feel like verifying that today
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes In your sexy pants?
 
@sbi And I have replied as well that she seems smart and that the talk was interesting. So, in whole, I judged her both as expert in her field and as a woman.
 
3:41 PM
I've learned to handle bafflement by (a) stop squirming (it tended to make it hurt more, until I'd a total panic was in order, see e.g. yesterdays escalation sequence by LRIO (chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/10?m=21083281#21083281)) (b) think. Perhaps think for years. (Some insights came years after the people made their respective well meaning corrective remarks)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Do you have the awesome blue sailor coat with infinite space pockets?
 
@wilx no, he's just a lost cause :P
 
sbi
@wilx Yeah, and nobody was trying to take that from you. That you, after being prompted, also commented positively on the quality you before dismissed with "yeah, she's got X, but look at Y!" And @sehe and I have been trying to point out that this demeans her. You don't have to agree. You don't need to discuss. But when you come up with counter arguments that do not make sense, you will have to expect counter counter arguments.
 
@sbi Well, I disagree on the "demeans her" part.
 
3:44 PM
Btw, there are no Stockholm-based loungers, are they?
@Johan?
 
sbi
@wilx Yeah, we noticed. That's where the "counter arguments that do not make sense" come in.
 
@wilx Good for you. How does that in any way imply that it's not demeaning for the recipient of the remark?
 
@wilx you said you wouldn't comment on it for a man because you "don't think about men like that". So in order to provide a sense of equality, you would not comment on it for a woman, because it would imply that your judgment on her as a potential mate is necessary before you can judge her content.
 
How do you c/p SO comments and keep the formatting (links to the commenter profile+to the comment)?
 
3:49 PM
@SamDeHaan That does not follow. I am capable and do evaluate both the contents and the speaker at the same time independently.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Only syndrome-based
 
@wilx But only if the speaker is a woman?
 
@jalf Yes because man is obviously not a perspective mate for me.
 
@wilx And a man, in that context, gets only comments on his content. A woman, in that context, then gets comments on her content AND her appearance, making it apparent that to you, her appearance is equivalently important to her content for the evaluation of her content.
 
3:50 PM
@SamDeHaan He said he pays attention to a woman's attire because he is interested in women, that's completely different
 
@wilx Neither are most women
 
sbi
@jalf Oh, no! Actually, I was only raising this topic because you said you'd be gone.
 
If you want to treat people as prospective mates, then go on a date with them. Outside of that, perhaps just treat them as people instead.
 
@SamDeHaan "her content" hihi
 
Friday evening is a good time for witchhunts
 
3:51 PM
@sbi Hmm?
 
26 mins ago, by wilx
@SamDeHaan Yes, because I am male and I do not pay attention to other males in that way.
 
@CatPlusPlus Should I post Rebecca Black again?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sigh, robots.
 
@SamDeHaan I do not doubt women do the reverse. Maybe they do not voice it, though.
 
3:51 PM
@SamDeHaan "I treat all women as prospective mates, whether they want to be or not, but I'm not in any way demeaning them"
 
@wilx That's good. I know you do. We can drop it. Shall we?
 
How about "no"?
 
What a shitstorm!
 
@jalf In some sense any woman is a potential mate. Obviously, in reality, I will be able to meet and mate with only handful. That does not remove the women's potential as a mate.
 
I'm out... Time to get loaded with real shit aka public transportation
 
sbi
3:52 PM
@jalf I was afraid this would end badly if you entered the discussion. :-/ I know your stance on this, and I know how convincing you argue. :)
 
@wilx In some sense every man is a potential mate too
 
@jalf Of course!
Aren't you m8?
 
@wilx The woman trying to come across as something other than your mate does remove her potential as a mate
@sbi heh :p
 
I remember times when saying someone looked good was a compliment
 
@CatPlusPlus It still is, in the right context.
 
3:54 PM
@sehe You are free not to participate.
 
Context really changes nothing
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus And it still is. But would it be a compliment when said to an athletic who just ran a marathon in a very good time?
 
@CatPlusPlus flagged for absolute stupidity
2
 
@jalf Not for me as far as I can tell.
 
@CatPlusPlus How hipster of you.
 
3:55 PM
@jalf True, still, the potential is non-zero.
 
sbi
@wilx See further then. :)
 
In general I'd like to go to the past, I don't like this new world that's brewin
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Is this why the grammar of the most-beloved language of all of us here is called "context-sensitive"?
 
@sbi right, Haskell.
 
@sbi Nah. The most-beloved is definitely Haskell. Bartek alone has more love for it than all us together can have for all other languages together.
 
3:57 PM
@wilx No, if she doesn't want to be your mate then it is exactly zero
 
Xeo
lol
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Pfft. I love German more. ;)
 
Here's a crazy idea: if you're on a date with someone, flirt away. If you're listening to a talk by someone, comment on the talk, not the appearance of the speaker. It's kind of that simple.
If someone fixes your car, comment on the quality and price of the work they do
If someone punches you in the face, comment on what an absolute ass they are :p
 
I reserve the right to comment on Scott's hairdo.
@jalf Punch them back first.
 
@CatPlusPlus Mondays are great for meltdowns
@R.MartinhoFernandes You Scottist! Do you have something against super heros?
 
3:59 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Always make the snarky comment first. :p
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, but he's inviting such comments. There's a difference.
 
@jalf in that case I might choose to do them simultaneously
 
@jalf That only works in movies!
 
just in case you feel like helping the slow kid:
0
Q: What is the meaning of this piece of Standardese about shared_ptr's use_count()?

Andy ProwlWhile trying to wrap my head around the problem shown in this question I found myself stuck on the following sentence from [util.smartptr.shared]/4: [...] Changes in use_count() do not reflect modifications that can introduce data races. I don't understand how I should read that, and what c...

 

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