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1:00 PM
@Xeo type is a keyword
 
Xeo
meh, give it a different name then
 
@Xeo You can't really distinguish types right now through OR, so it's not very feasible to do that, but you could do for some specific types. More likely, it would be legal if you imagine something like foo(std.vector), where a would be std.vector(int) and b would be std.vector(std.vector(int)).
 
Xeo
That sounds... messy, in generic code. Dunno.
 
but I've been considering banning local := type; because it has different behaviour to argument := type and member := type.
@Xeo Well, the current system isn't really designed for that, since I intend to introduce concepts later with a focus on more generic code. The genericity of the current system is more like an accidental byproduct. Right now I'm focusing on run-time systems like EH and compiler quality.
 
Xeo
Psst: a : type~
 
1:06 PM
@Xeo Nope. I'd ban that shit for local variables anyway.
you can't have a local variable without an initializer in Wide.
 
Xeo
Meh. Clarity of intention ftw
 
which is essentially what the other two forms have that function locals don't.
"I have a member of type int but don't worry because I'll initialize it in the constructor".
or "I have an argument of type int but don't worry because the caller has to initialize it".
but for function locals, it's like, "I have a local of type int, there's no initializer, so, er, yeah, I enjoy my programs crashing and having random effects."
 
strToUint_64("01:23:45:67:89:0A", 8, ':', true) -> if (!big_endian) std::reverse(raw_str.begin(), raw_str.end()); #lol?! #wtf
this function is horribly broken
 
Ven
Mgetz -- I only have 2 gold.
 
huh.
my code stopped ICEing and I didn't change it at all.
I feel double-plus-ungood about this.
oh no, the ICE came back.
 
1:15 PM
Pulling in phoenix and fusion when the preprocessor suffices does seem like a bit of overkill to me. — Martin Ba 7 mins ago
Oh well. Modern C++ and Macros. Who will win?
 
Macros will be around for a while.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit :lol:
 
user3010322
@LightnessRacesinOrbit byte order is, clearly, hard.
 
It's like someone heard of endianness, but not really what it's about
 
@sehe Not sure which is worse for the understand-ability and maintainability of the code. (Assuming co-workers are neither macro nor boost gurus).
 
1:22 PM
It's C++, nobody will understand this code anyway
4
So don't worry!
 
@StackedCrooked let alone the complicated shit that is Boost PP_* macros
 
Boost.PP is not that hard, assuming you understand recursion and learn some of the PP quirks
Which is not hard, but then people are dumb
 
anyone in this room use stash?
 
Ven
It's overkill anyway T_t
 
user1804599
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol
 
1:32 PM
@Crow I do
if you're about Atlassian's
 
yeah, I'm just wondering, if you had a pull request and made a few commits while it was still in pull request, can you look back at the previous commits and their diff?
 
uhm what? you have a list of commits in your PR
 
Ven
racket's cool.
I'm still looking for an online editor tho :/
 
@Abyx oh dur I see it I'm just an idiot
 
@MartinBa just updated the answer with a demonstration of actually passing parameter lists and showing some ways in which this is superior to what macros can achieve. — sehe 17 secs ago
 
1:37 PM
@ThePhD it is for these people -.-
ahem guess where he's from
 
user3010322
England? :D
 
FREAKING HELL. Bastard just completely changed his question, invalidating my super answer
1
A: how to use boost preprocessors to run a sequence of macros?

seheYou don't need to be using macros here. See it Live On Coliru: #include <boost/fusion/adapted/std_tuple.hpp> #include <boost/fusion/algorithm.hpp> #include <boost/phoenix.hpp> template <typename... F> struct sequence_application { explicit sequence_application(F... fs) : fs(fs...) { } ...

 
@ThePhD no
re edit: uh-uh. No. That's a totally different question so if you want to ask that please post it separately! — Lightness Races in Orbit 9 secs ago
& rollback
 
why is arabian music always so good
I've yet to find anything arabian that doesn't sound bad
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit cheers m8. I wouldn't roll this harshly, but certainly appreciate the support
 
1:41 PM
@sehe It's a little aggressive even for me, but I do stand by it entirely.
 
@AlexM. maybe you should try to listen to more (actual) arabian music
 
He can post a new question if he wants to post a new question. I'm sick of people treating questions as if they were their personal scratchpads or helpdesk threads; semantically if he has a new question he can post it separately.
 
@sehe isn't that one blending with other types?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit mmm. he's started the edit war
 
I'm noticing that the whole world starts to make the same kinds of music
 
1:41 PM
oh boy, rollback war
 
Flag for mod
 
I'd leave it. People will notice my notice. And otherwise, we don't gain much from warring
 
@sehe flagged for mod
er, yeah, what Cat said
 
@AlexM. s/make/listen to/
 
@sehe I want to teach the twat a lesson
 
1:43 PM
@sehe I think it works for both, or maybe your version leads to mine
 
starting with "you're a twat"?! Nah. He was just careless and as such wasted my time (and that of others)
@AlexM. nah. Different kinds of music are still being made! But... /commerce/
 
for example there's still some folk-like Romanian music that reminds of the old folk music
but now it's combined with random rock or whatever
 
All for progress!
global village, etc
okay, free time's up, fetching the kids
 
Xeo
Damn. Why the heck isn't yum offering me GCC 4.7 on CentOS 6.x
 
user1804599
lol CentOS
 
1:53 PM
It's just something like copy-on-write (COW) in Linux child process memory management, right? Perhaps we can call it copy-on-length-alteration (COLA). I see this as a positive design. — justhalf 10 hours ago
facepalm
These fanboys are so harmful.
 
bah
 
Ven
why are there so little lisp questions on SO ?
 
fucking hospital just re-scheduled my surgery for 1st July.
 
user1804599
@Ven because lisp users ask on IRC, lol.
 
user1804599
If you are referring to , then it's because people don't use such tags because they use more specific ones.
 
user3010322
1:57 PM
Sigh.
 
user3010322
Universla references...
 
user3010322
if a universal reference is picking up a derived class for itself,
 
we should have a miss fat universe beauty pageant where the contenders must have a BMI over 23
 
user3010322
rather than letting the natural to-base conversion apply so it can just invoke the regular copy constructor,
 
Uh what
 
user3010322
1:59 PM
do I apply SFINAE to the universal reference, or std::forward as the base type?
 
Xeo
Why would you want to slice :P
 
It's not fat per se, because average BMI in developed countries is about that
 
user3010322
@Xeo It's a derived type's copy ctor
 
Ven
@rightfold I'm talkimg about common-lisp/racket/etc
 
Xeo
@ThePhD Ah.
Yeah, if you have a universal ctor, you always need to disable on is_base_of
 
user3010322
2:01 PM
I'm trying to pass another const Derived& down to the base const Base& thing, but a universal reference is picking it up as const Derived& instead.
 
Xeo
... manual copy ctor?
 
user3010322
@Xeo Grumbles.
 
user1804599
@Ven probably because few people use lisps.
 
Ven
@rightfold that's sad :(
 
user3010322
@Xeo and move ctor
 
user1804599
2:02 PM
As opposed to more popular programming languages such as C#, C++, Java and PHP.
 
Xeo
y
y u manual
 
@Ven because lisp people are actually productive
AHAHAHAHAHAH
 
user3010322
@Xeo I have no =default in VC++
 
Xeo
y u VC++ :P
 
Ven
Sure, you can be productive in lisp
 
user3010322
2:03 PM
Because I can't reimplement the entire engine in less than a week on openGL, g++, OpenAL, and FreeType.
 
user3010322
That's like a whole summer's worth of work.
 
user1804599
Clojure is a nice lisp.
 
user1804599
Because fuck lists.
 
Ven
Probably the worst lisp, but eh
to each its own
 
user1804599
It has actual data types.
 
user3010322
2:04 PM
Seeing as MinGW does not, contrary to what I was told, work mostly out of the box with DirectX or XAudio or DirectWrite.
 
Ven
@rightfold "actual data types" ?
Have you seen Typo ? Lisk ?
(or even typed racket, really, if you really like the typed part)
 
Ven
ew
 
user1804599
@Ven No.
 
Ven
must be german to enjoy that :b
@rightfold and the old github.com/aculich/lisk
 
2:08 PM
Why should I care about experimental languages with no ecosystem
 
haskell is experimental
 
user1804599
Haskell is stable, not experimental.
 
Ven
why shouldn't you care about experimental languages ?
 
2:09 PM
@Ven he doesn't care by the default
 
Because languages are boring if you can't do anything with them
 
Ven
You can do stuff with them. That's not how I define experimental
 
you can wank on how beautiful they are
 
Ven
isn't that what all haskellers do ?
 
bah
download Skype and it's like, "99 of the most annoying ways ever you could make money for Microsoft, and you have to explicitly opt out of every single one of them!".
 
2:12 PM
@StackedCrooked When will coliru be getting GCC 4.9?
 
user3010322
I need to implement BufferedStream( Stream& )
 
@Ven touchè
inb4 that's not how it's written
Dec 29 '13 at 23:18, by FredOverflow
user image
LIES
 
user1804599
Ugh lowercase O.
 
user1804599
Silly Germans.
 
@Jefffrey He miss-spelled frustration and anger
 
2:14 PM
That's how it should be
 
user1804599
No. It's completely illogical and ugly.
 
user3010322
@Jefffrey @FredOverflow did Bjarne ever get back to you for this e-mail?
 
Yes, it's illogical that non-capital letter follows a comma
 
user1804599
You're beginning a story, not finishing a sentence.
 
user1804599
By that logic there shouldn't be two newlines after the comma either.
 
2:14 PM
wat
 
how does one efficiently store an image in a database?
 
Ven
one doesn't
 
Don't
 
BLOB lol
 
how should I manage user avatars? (without resorting to gravatar)
 
user1804599
2:15 PM
Gravatar.
 
user3010322
Put it on the file system, call it a day.
 
user3010322
Use Gravatar, call it a day.
 
@Crow link to uploaded images
 
Don't store files in a database
 
user1804599
2:16 PM
> MongoDB stores files of any size without complicating your stack.
 
I'm using SQLAlchemy
 
user3010322
"without complicating your stack" what does that even mean?
 
user1804599
@Crow SQLAlchemy can serialize paths to image files.
 
@Crow so?
 
user1804599
Django has image fields which handle this transparently. Maybe SQLAlchemy has it too, or maybe there is a library that does it for SQLAlchemy.
 
user3010322
2:18 PM
Ugh.
 
user3010322
having to manually write mov and copy constructors is horrible...
 
user3010322
but at least everything builds and runs...
 
SQLAlchemy shouldn't be concerned with file storage details
Django gets away with it because it's a more general framework
Separation of concerns etc
 
@rightfold What if you're doing both?
 
2:19 PM
@rightfold okay, so what would it save it as? user_id + '_avatar' or something?
 
user3010322
What happened to just treating the whole thing as a gigantic pile of bytes?
 
Yes, as API-Beast said, this is usually called "Copy-on-Half-Assed-Language-Design". — R. Martinho Fernandes 14 hours ago
 
@ThePhD Webscale.
 
user1804599
@Crow Does not matter. Whatever is easiest.
 
someday I'll be a gigantic pile of bytes...
 
user3010322
2:23 PM
Will you let me upload you?
 
@Cornstalks That isn't fact, that is still opinion. The opinion of the creators of the language. The question is if this design is bad or not, which is opinion. That isn't to say that opinions on this subject aren't valuable, but that they are not a good fit for StackOverflow. — JasonMArcher Jun 6 at 23:27
 
user3010322
... It's back...
 
:lol:
 
user3010322
IT'S BAAAAAAAAAAACK
 
user3010322
THE ICE
 
user3010322
2:24 PM
THEY'RE BACk
 
As long as there's no SQLOperationError
 
our local train company seems to introduce rolling eco saunas
 
@ThePhD Very quality.
 
user3010322
Well, this si the CTP.
 
user3010322
This is what I get for wanting auto in my life.
 
user3010322
2:27 PM
For working with DirectX and XAudio and DirectWrite.
 
user3010322
After this last piece of vomit, I will retreat to the hills with a copy of the OpenGL spec and freetype documentation and being implementing everything.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes who looks/acts different than you think in the unconference
 
@Griwes Terra types are Lua values.
 
@ThePhD You changed to 14?
 
user3010322
2:29 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, still November CTP.
 
user3010322
Of 2013.
 
That's even worse than baseline 2013.
 
user3010322
I'd have to uninstall all of my VS's to use the 14 CTP.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Can you or not? :P
Hmm. Is Clang usable-ish in Windows yet?
(With big "ish" there.)
 
Nothing C++ is usable in Windows.
 
2:32 PM
@Griwes let me compile Terra from sources just for you
 
user1804599
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Aw
 
@BartekBanachewicz I assumed you knew the answer :P
 
@ThePhD really wow that's dumb? Use the preinstalled VM?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is it relatively usable-ish yet?
 
2:33 PM
@Griwes I know it, but next thing you'll ask for running example
 
@ThePhD btw, maybe it's possible to rip the c++ toolset from it
 
user3010322
@Abyx Maybe, but there might be esoteric MSBuild dependencies on the inside of it.
 
Oh nice. My base-for-everything library compiles under G++ 4.9. -Wextra gets crazy, but without it it does compile. I'll have to check whether it actually works later. and if it does, maybe even my little testing framework will be usable outside my very specific clang environment o/
 
make[2]: ../bin/clang: Command not found
uh, really.
building.
src/llvmheaders.h:4:10: fatal error: 'clang/AST/ASTConsumer.h' file not found
for fucks sake.
 
user3010322
Hahaha
 
user3010322
2:38 PM
Are you building clang for windows?
 
I've just seen a lizard lose it's tail. The tail kept moving for more than a whole minute. It's freaky.
 
oh. jeeebies
My son is out buying bread and milk on his own now.
The store is 8 houses down the road, but still...
I'm watching the clock.
 
@rubenvb I haven't figured out how to install it yet.
 
I used to be pretty adventurous as a kid
my mom sent me to buy stuff when I was 6
 
Imma post a list of Android app permissions and you tell me what sort of an app it is
3
This app has access to:
* In-app purchases
* Identity [find accounts on the device]
* SMS [read your text messages (SMS or MMS)]
* Photos / Media / Files [test access to protected storage, modify or delete the contents of your USB storage]
* Wi-Fi connection information [view Wi-Fi connections]
* Device ID & call information [read phone status and identity]
* Other [receive data from Internet, run at startup, full network access, control vibration, prevent device from sleeping, view network connections]
 
2:45 PM
the store was half an hour away from my home, or an hour for the full trip
on the way a bunch of geese started running towards me and hissing
I hated geese ever since
 
@CatPlusPlus Flashlight.
 
Xeo
lol
 
Keyboard
 
I lived in a village when I was small
 
my son is six :)
But you can get to the store in 1 minute. Big difference.
 
Xeo
2:45 PM
wat
 
@Xeo Android permissions are a joke.
 
Also "Content Rating: Medium Maturity"
 
@sehe yeah, but there's also a difference between villages and cities
everybody knew who I was there, so it was very hard for things to happen to me without everyone knowing
 
@CatPlusPlus That's an interesting idea.
 
Xeo
2:47 PM
This app has access to:
Other
    control vibration
    read terms you added to the dictionary
    add words to user-defined dictionary
 
Hacker's Keyboard, just clicked on that too :v
 
Xeo
hehe
 
SO YOU CAN MAKE A KEYBOARD THAT DOESN'T READ SMS
3
 
Fuck you chat.,
 
@CatPlusPlus I've only run into one app that actually uses JUST the permissions it needs, the bubble level
 
2:48 PM
@AlexM. True
Actually, I don't have cash, so he counted and brought cash from his own "saving pig". And we entered it in his "register" as a loan to me, with interest rate of 2.5% per week :)
So I can pay him back in a week and he'll be 10 cents richer
 
Google Maps
 
Houzz Interior Design Ideas
 
:lol:
 
from time to time I ask my mum if she remembers sending me to the store, and making me prone to being raped by a goose
@sehe there are some striking similarities between us there
 
2:49 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, I dropped Spotify because I think they ridiculously expanded their permissions. That sucks because I'm premium member
 
whenever I need money from my parents I get a loan with an interest rate
 
Apparently there's a way to selectively revoke permissions
 
and whenever we make a deal, I definitely take into account the ways I could turn profits
 
Nope.
@sehe Everyone does :S
 
@AlexM. 2.5% per week seems like highway robbery, but ey, it's only to demonstrate how it works :)
 
2:50 PM
Dropbox needs permission to take pictures now.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Everyone sucks?
 
@sehe what
 
Oh, right, 4.3 had it, and then 4.4 removed it :v
You can do it on a rooted device though I think
 
@BartekBanachewicz And they made the update mandatory. Security!
 
I will laugh tirelessly at people removing app because "permissions"
 
2:51 PM
@sehe Everyone expands their permissions ridiculously.
 
paranoid freaks, that's what you are.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Er.
 
+1: I'm not sure where all the downvotes on this question are coming from, but this is actually a well-formed question. Sure, the answer might be obvious to some, but it doesn't deserve being down-voted. — Filip Roséen - refp 4 mins ago
 
@CatPlusPlus I heard there are ways to get it back (just not in "stock android"?). I will revisit my apps once I figure that out
 
stop using computers altogether.
 
2:51 PM
A fine-grained permission system is what PC OSes lack
 
It's mostly about not putting up with stupid bullshit.
 
use a rock
it's best because it doesn't need any special permissions
 
But if you build a system around them, and then just ignore them, it's stupid and why bother even having permissions in the first place
 
@BartekBanachewicz Also, thank you for being part of the problem.
 
@CatPlusPlus exactly
 
2:52 PM
@BartekBanachewicz use scissors
 
(Note that ignoring permissions is not the good way to go here)
 
@sehe rock beats scissors :P
@CatPlusPlus I honestly couldn't give less fucks.
 
Lack of solid app isolation and fine-grained permissions is why malware exists
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's why everyone keeps doing it.
No one knows, or no one minds.
 
2:54 PM
the apps should disable features if you disallow them to do something
 
Yes
Also if you think it's not a problem: Facebook app recently added microphone access to their permission list
3
 
but OTOH if I were to pay close attention to permissions I might as well use a phone that has a... phone, messages and a web browser.
 
@sehe Doesn't work at all if you update to Kit Kat, though: the functionality is just not there.
@BartekBanachewicz I thought you didn't care.
 
@BartekBanachewicz What
 
@CatPlusPlus that's what I would be left with
 
2:55 PM
No?
 
I took away GPS permission from Google Maps.
 
If people were paying attention to permissions, vendors wouldn't include ones they don't fucking need
And maybe Google would make selective revocation an actual documented feature
 
Yes, that would be the best choice.
 
Goddamn Facebook has better app permission system than Android
 
doesn't db.drop_all() for all intents and purposes remove all data from the database? I did it but I still see data here
 
2:57 PM
And it's not an OS :cripes:
 
If I don't need your cloud bullshit, I don't want to give you full network access.
 
THE CLOUD
 
If I use your app only for your cloud storage system, I don't want to let you take pictures.
FFS I don't even want you to waste your time adding whatever feature needs to take the pictures.
Just go the fuck away.
Bullshit upgrades.
 
go fuck already
 

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