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user1646075
3:00 AM
implies garbage collection triggers unless I have less imagination than I need
 
@chmod711telkitty Hm....rereading.
15 mins ago, by Jerry Coffin
@chmod711telkitty So which do you mean--that it's higher level, or more like Java? Given Java's nearly-complete lack of higher-level features, even C++98 was clearly capable of being a higher level language than even Java 8 attempts (and mostly fails) to be.
 
@Mgetz Good night.
 
but in Java you can generate getters and setters!
 
Still not seeing any mention of C# there. Did I unwittingly embed an stegonagraphic stream so it's there without my seeing it?
 
@JerryCoffin C% you say?
 
3:03 AM
@StackedCrooked ...and end up with code that looks like a warped assembly language. Highest level possible, there.
 
I need a better type_list
 
@StackedCrooked I dunno--apparently I said a few things I didn't realize I'd ever even considered saying.
 
@Rapptz Why are you claiming std::tuple is yours? :P
 
user1646075
in other news - why does git on accasion but certainly not with any regularity complain that a blank line at eof is a whitespace error; yet about 95% of the time it is happy to accept that? I liek blank liens at eof
 
@Rapptz I got my copy of Modern C++ Design today :P
 
user1646075
3:04 AM
@StackedCrooked is it up on Safari yet?
 
I'm building a small collection of classic programming books just because I like seeing them on my shelf.
 
user1646075
heh
 
@aclarke Maybe its actually the line ending scheme?
 
@JerryCoffin you didn't, but I did in my first remark in regards to the subject:
22 mins ago, by chmod 711 telkitty
IMHO, C++ has moved way more towards becoming a higher level language the way Java & C# are & losing it's own character - i.e. letting user optimizing the code speed by accessing lower level aspect of the language
 
@StackedCrooked That book is so old though lmao
 
3:06 AM
@Rapptz 2001
 
user1646075
@MarkGarcia but most files are all the same, the settings look normal, and ... and .... /blub
 
Ancient.
 
I started programming C++ in late 2004. At that time it was still recent.
 
Yeah but C++11 is radically different from C++98.
 
user1646075
want to buy a 2nd printing K&R C book? $500 ono.
 
3:08 AM
Not saying it's a bad book or anything
Just that I don't think it'd help me out too much.
@MarkGarcia I don't want to use std::tuple as a type list.
 
I even got this book. (2nd handed for a few cents + expensive shipping).
 
@chmod711telkitty Yes--I ignored it. I guess I should have ignored the rest of what you said too.
 
@Rapptz ... anymore. I was implying that you're currently using std::tuple. ;)
 
Also got this one.
That's from 1991 :D
 
Yeah I was actually.
 
3:09 AM
@StackedCrooked If you want a classic, try this one.
 
@StackedCrooked You should also buy the EC++ CDs. :)
 
@JerryCoffin Orderd it for $7.78 + $3.99 shipping
 
user1646075
@StackedCrooked heh - "Continued critical acclaim in October 1995 Dr. Dobb's" - does Dr Dobbs even still exist even?
 
yes
 
@JerryCoffin Thanks :)
 
user1646075
3:12 AM
@JerryCoffin Do you remember a little (literally, about A6 sized) red C book from circa 1980 that was a "good advice" and cookbook book?
 
@StackedCrooked Surely.
 
user1646075
I can't find reference to it anywhere...
 
user1646075
or remember it's name
 
classic
by that I mean ... old
 
@aclarke Red? No, can't think of one with a red cover, at least right off. Sounds like it would be fairly memorable too--there weren't very many books on C around in 1980.
 
user1646075
3:19 AM
@JerryCoffin no nothing else around, it was in the corner of my uni's library; and it offered ideas for using this new exciting language... literally the only other C book in the place at the time
 
@chmod711telkitty A friend of mine was once asked if he wanted to help write the Nth edition of the C++ Primer Plus. They changed their minds when he told them he'd be happy to, but it was going to be a completely rewrite from the ground up.
 
I have the 3rd edition ... I am old classic
 
user1646075
i am frightened that a 10 year old book is laughably obsolete.
 
@chmod711telkitty If you're going to claim to be old, you need to have a first edition of something (and preferably something that even the most recent edition is already old).
 
user1646075
I should have nicked that book, also a copy of Informal Introduction to Algol 68 which the library had 20 pristine copies of for some odd reason - and clearly untouched by human hands.
 
3:24 AM
@aclarke Sad--the informal introduction was a nicely written piece of work. Pretty sure it's available freely online nowadays, in case anybody cares to read about truly obsolete stuff...
 
user1646075
@JerryCoffin yeah, found that recently after a prior discussion here. I was carrying it around for a while, and a post-grad looked at me bemusedly and said "why would you want to be reading that?"
 
@aclarke It's the programming language equivalent of Latin: most of the concepts in an entire family of languages came from there.
 
user1646075
@JerryCoffin almost nothing new - except inheritance. can't think of anything in A68 which covered that...
 
It seems I wouldn't be able to release this android app on my birthday(which is tomorrow), I am devastated ...
 
@aclarke Yeah, in '68, inheritance was still entirely separate, used only by those weird simulation languages.
 
user1646075
3:29 AM
@JerryCoffin When did simula do it's thing? about 67?
 
user1646075
and earlier, it appears
 
@aclarke Yup. Technically, the original Simula was a bit earlier, but Simula 67 was when it was really a finished product.
 
but I am going to have buffet (with seafood) & a mini holiday on the weekend ... also could feel it - that time of the month coming ~_~
 
user1646075
amazing how nothing is really new any more. Lisp is another case in point... Wonder if APL will get much credit for blazing the functional trail
 
@aclarke It shouldn't. Don't get me wrong: it can do all the functional stuff--but so could Lisp, and Lisp did it sooner. More importantly, Lisp in normal use has always had a lot more the functional character.
I do think APL did (and does) deserve more recognition that it generally receives, but I don't think "functional" is what it should be recognized for.
Then again, getting APL recognized is hard, simply because so few people can even recognize all those...squiggles as APL at all.
 
user1646075
3:43 AM
it was hard-core maths functional. I've read that the guys were also messing with "F" and "FP" as evolitions. Not sure which guys... WIKI!
 
user1646075
@JerryCoffin yes, squiggles. Have you ever tried to read J which "avoided" that problem by using normal ASCII?
 
@aclarke I've seen a few bits of J, but never looked at it in any depth. I always figured if I was going to use APL, I might as well use the real thing. Pretty sure I can find an APL font if I need one.
 
user1646075
there's a few out there. also NARS2000 is a good decent home-use env.
 
user1646075
the kiddies should have a look at this, then they'll stop complaining about any complexity in C++ aplwiki.com/FinnAplIdiomLibrary
 
4:33 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
5:54 AM
@Rapptz No idea. But if I complete the struct backbase template I get an error indicating that it is reaching the base template which does not have type defined: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/70c49cdf4b312240
 
I know
if you replace S<Args...> with just list<....> it works
I don't know why having a template template suddenly breaks it
 
@Rapptz What about, wait for it, ... asking a question on SO? :D
 
I'll pass.
 
@Rapptz Why?
 
I don't ask questions on SO.
 
5:59 AM
@Rapptz Why?
 
Not my style.
 
@Rapptz Why?
OK...
 
We just ask here instead.
 
user1646075
cronyism
 
Ell
6:58 AM
 
7:18 AM
Silly Visual Studio, full of optimizer bugs.
I'm about to file another bug - which would be my 7th? Since I first started programing in like 2008 or so.
 
Its bugs are optimized.
That's why.
 
user1804599
if (osName.indexOf("9") != -1) {
    jvm = WINDOWS_9x;
 
user1804599
lol
 
I watched that CppCon video by Scott Meyers last night on Type Deduction, and he talks about how VS implements a proposal for C++17.
I thought that was LOL
VS is probably not even fully C++11 compliant, yet they have somehow implemented a C++17 standards proposal
the fuck
 
wtf, Microsoft Connect borked their description formatting.
screw it
 
7:21 AM
it's not even 03 compliant is it, if you take into account all the odd ball shit.
 
also the thing they implemented is a breaking change
so stupid
 
user1804599
@TonyTheLion if said proposal doesn't require the missing C++11 features then you can do that.
 
They're doing a fine job at breaking stuff.
 
user1804599
MSVclang++
 
@rightfold yea but this thing might never make it into the next standard.
 
7:24 AM
@TonyTheLion you mean they had a bug and some how managed to turn it into a feature of C++17
 
user1804599
Writing C++ compilers is hard. Have some mercy.
 
@rightfold no.
 
C++ is hard
just understanding type deduction is like a feat by itself
 
nah :P
 
7:25 AM
lel
I have lots of work to do today, and no motivation to do it
wtf
 
user1804599
That is a shame.
 
@TonyTheLion You are normal.
 
@Griwes Thanks for confirming :)
but that price tag
 
Yeah. I thought it was purely a joke.
 
VS2013's vectorizer forgets that there's an int->double cast: connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/988951/…
 
Ell
7:32 AM
I want to read about extern templates
 
I don't
 
@Ell Granted.
 
user1804599
I maybe
 
Ell
Or what was the thing only comeau implemented?
 
@Ell You mean export? I think it was EDG.
 
Ell
7:36 AM
Yeah that's the ticket
 
@TonyTheLion he's lying
 
@thecoshman hehe
 
xeo intends to break into a female prison ...
 
7:48 AM
lol
 
@TonyTheLion also it matches Linux 9 and darwin9..
 
@StackedCrooked I noticed
it doesn't make it any less funny
 
I first thought that was the joke :)
I'm slow.
 
Xeo
0
A: How to generate a massive amount of high quality Random Numbers?

tmyklebuOn my i3, the following program runs in about five seconds: #include <random> std::mt19937_64 foo; double drand() { union { double d; long long l; } x; x.d = 1.0; x.l |= foo() & (1LL<<53)-1; return x.d-1; } int main() { double d; for (int i = 0; i < 1e9; i++) d += dra...

sigh
Nice aliasing violation there
 
It's explicitly allowed in C99, and all mainstream compilers extend the behavior to C++.
 
7:55 AM
"My random numbers are of the same high quality as that of the competition for a much lower price!"
 
Oh yeah, my numbers are the most random. But they take a while to generate!
 
Hi, is there any disadvantage to declaring and initializing/defining variables inside a while loop? For some reason, when I declare these variables outside the loop(right after my includes which I assume means I'm declaring it on to the heap), these variables are getting written over.
 
Ell
Stack or free store allocation is irrelevant of the scope of the declaration
 
@Algorithmic Sounds like you have a bug somewhere in your code.
 
Ell
If you initialise them inside the loop body they're going to be set to that value every iteration
 
8:05 AM
Start by forgetting about "stack and heap".
 
Yeah...it seems so. I just can't seem to get to the bottom of it.
@Ell Yeah, I think so too. So then it's probably that somehow my variables are being meddled with somewhere else in the code...
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh?
 
Once again that distinction proves to make things no easier to understand.
And on the contrary, it appears to have actually confused you.
 
Ell
@algorith can I see the code?
 
@Ell Sure. Should I post it here or email you? The code is not that long. Its about 200 lines
 
Try to remove bits to make it smaller.
You might even find the bug that way.
 
8:10 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, Its getting a little untidy now anyway so I'm gonna go on a clean up mission just now
 
8:28 AM
so the "windows technical preview" is out...and the pages are referring to it as Windows 10. Did I miss Windows 9? o.O
 
Ell
Yeah
It doesn't exist
Also balls this time I'm an hour early for the train
I wish I was good at timing
 
@melak47 it seems too much code is 'cleverly' detecting windows 95/98 by looking if the version number starts with '9'...
 
Ell
Why would they want to support that terrible software
Man I have to wait an hour here
 
9:01 AM
Hi
 
@Ell because they are not stupid.
As painful as it can be, supporting legacy crap is a big deal.
 
I used to have this wrong notion that the closer something was to being executable, the closer it was to binary. For example after you compile text based source code it is now binary. I now know this is wrong. Everything in a computer is 0s and 1s. But I had a thought, maybe this is wrong too. 0s and 1s are abstract concepts, so computer don't technically have 0s and 1s inside them.
 
Why do we speak of them as having them? Is it just another layer of abstraction? Is it easier than saying "hi or low voltage"?
 
@Celeritas more or less, yes.
 
9:05 AM
I ain't asking a no or yes question
 
@Celeritas hi and low voltage represent 1 and 0's
and those then represent whatever we want them to
 
@TonyTheLion not necessarily.
 
and so the layers build up
 
@TonyTheLion that's my point, why not just say hi or low
 
and we end up with the turd we use every day
like C++
 
9:06 AM
@Celeritas for the same reason we say 8 and not 'midlyish high'
 
@Celeritas because models of thinking and lazy
@thecoshman kek
 
also maths
 
@thecoshman don't be a pedant
also, no one wants to think about voltages
when talking about software
leave that to hardware people
 
@TonyTheLion the point is you have two distinct states, they could be anything.
@TonyTheLion hardware > software
 
@thecoshman could your mum be one of them? :P
 
9:07 AM
o_0 did I just do a pun with punctuation?
 
@Celeritas There are two states. "0" and "1" are just representations of them.
You can use "wobbly" and "bubbly" if you want.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ... do we through in the joys of Tri-state binary?
 
Ell
Or true and false
Or hi and low
Or a and b
Or he and she
 
or fuck and duck
 
@Ell that's what I mean, call them hi or low because that's what they are lol
 
9:08 AM
In, say, an optical disc, there are no high and low voltages stored. The bits are still there, though.
@Celeritas But it's not!
 
@Celeritas they don't have to be at all.
 
High and low voltage are just another representation of the two states.
 
Ell
@celeritas because we talk about representations not physical implementations
 
computer science is all about abstractions
 
Ell
We don't care how the 0s and 1s are represented in real physical life
Also what robot said!
 
9:11 AM
@Ell and the rest of us too :P
 
anything could be anything
everything is vague
 
welcome to compsci
 
You don't call small streets "white" and highways "orange", even though that's how Google Maps displays them.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Maybe I'll start now
 
9:12 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ¬_¬ I call bull shit, but amusing thought non-the-less
 
Ell
I call true but not amusing
 
@Ell ¬_¬ when I pop up to Dublin next, you could get a delightful "went to club in America, woke up in Dublin" photo
 
why is FFXIII so cheap on Steam
like, less than 15 eur
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit airport is quite far, I am amazed that he did not take Eurostar ...
 
Ell
I wouldn't go to a club in america, I'm not old enough to drink there :P
 
9:15 AM
I preordered it but now I'm kinda worried, I hope they didn't add paid DLC for half of the story
 
@chmod711telkitty Wasn't aware that you're so familiar with Manchester.
 
then again all FF titles are priced similarly so there must be some pattern SE is following
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes When I'm abroad I do!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but you do call parks & places with a lot of vegetaions "green" ... even though they are green on google maps ...
 
I call them "parks".
 
9:23 AM
I live in a green environment, I don't live in a park, I am not homeless ...
 
Ell
I call them parks too
I call cricket greens greens
 
Guys
I love you
So fucking much
 
can't blame you
I'd love me too
 
Ell
Thank you. I wish for your sake the feelings were mutual. But alas, they are not
 
thunderbird started crawling lately
I wonder if the large amount of emails in trash/archive is the issue
 
9:42 AM
@Ell Nice. Pretty well done!
 
@TonyTheLion oh gawd
Also yay I get 4G now... battery drains even faster :c
 
@melak47 It quite the power drain.
I need to recharge daily if I make any significant use of 4G.
 
Xeo
Hmmm... hungry
 
@Xeo pasta!
 
+1 Though instead of OP having created a poor pinhole camera, I'd say rather that his house has created a pretty good one, as far as pinhole cameras accidentally created by houses go. — iamnotmaynard yesterday
 
9:53 AM
> Under a new Russian law, the three US firms (Google, Facebook, and Twitter) must register as "organizers of information distribution," and store all data on Russian users in data centers on Russian soil. The Vladimir Putin-led nation also reserves the right to remove any material posted by Russians that is deemed offensive, or that breaches Russian election regulations.
yeah, I'm sure Google and the others will do that
 
They agreed to similar bullshit about China before.
 
lol really?
 
@AlexM. they did it in China.
 
wtf
 
it's money.
 
9:56 AM
anyone got an article about that? googling for "google china servers" doesn't help much
 
You never heard of Google censorship in China?
 
nope
 
...
Instead of 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko, they should have sent Rosetta to where you live.
 
@AlexM. Doesn't sound unreasonable.
 

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