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@CatPlusPlus yeah, I found that :p
@CatPlusPlus I have the newest DirectX redistributables installed, and it doesn't contain D3DCOMPILER_XY.dll
and I don't think I want to ship the entire windows sdk with my app? :/
 
Latest d3d compilter doesn't ship with any redist, IIRC>
 
:lol: Microsoft
 
hi
 
7:09 PM
It's also because WinRT / Windows 8 Store Apps don't support on-the-fly d3d compilation.
That dll is blocked, specifically.
 
> The D3DCompiler_46.DLL and D3DCSX_46.DLL can be deployed with the application without using a redist package. -- MSDN blog
 
Works for me.
 
yup.
what the hell is d3dcsx?
compute shader x?
 
Something like that, I guess.
 
7:10 PM
d3d Creative Suite X.
LOL
WHAT THE SHIT YOU ACTUALLY POSTED THAT UP THERE.
Would you wear a cowboy hat while you did it and whisper naughty things in my ear about void pointers?~
2
Dear lord, why. ;~;
 
lol
fuckin' played, Tony
 
lol
 
>_>
wanna guess where the dll is located?
 
Where? :D
 
7:13 PM
bla\Windows Kits\8.1\Redist\D3D\
 
lololl.
 
self service redistributable
 
@ThePhD Who's behind that, by the way?
 
oh, I forgot: who cares about windows store apps
 
7:16 PM
4 mins ago, by DeadMG
fuckin' played, Tony
 
@EtiennedeMartel Tony, apparently.
 
@DeadMG I see.
 
apparently a couple others have access but I forgot their names
 
What?
 
@kbok yay! :3 (you have mixed tabs and spaces though)
 
7:17 PM
You could make a bot that tweets all starred messages >=4
@BartekBanachewicz oh fuuu
 
@kbok I'm too stupid for that
 
has been suggested
but then, my crack about Tony fucking ponies wasn't tweeted, and it's at +9
 
@kbok also wtf is D2D1?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Direct2D 1.1.
 
@DeadMG Now it is
 
7:19 PM
@DeadMG nooo YYYYY @kbok :/
y u do this to me
 
what?
 
I just wanted to learn a bit about how all this DirectXYZ and COM works
 
@DeadMG he just added Lundi to it
@kbok Well DirectDraw is useless in general
 
and TBH it's the best 2D graphics API I've worked with yet
 
@kbok let's see D2D1CreateFactory(D2D1_FACTORY_TYPE_SINGLE_THREADED, &d2d_factory);
That one line is enough for me.
pseudo-name-namespaces, pointers, (oh wait that's an enum actually) and factory
 
7:21 PM
There's COM-y quirks but that's a detail. Also if you know better I'm open to suggestions :)
 
I'm back! :D
 
@kbok Raw OpenGL is pretty nice for 2D
 
@kbok OpenGL obviously.
aw, too late.
 
@melak47 to beat me at suggesting OGL you gotta train more, son.
 
vampire -> bin
 
7:22 PM
@BartekBanachewicz That was expected :D
 
@DeadMG haha, seriously though, on a deadline :S. Do you know the answer?
 
haha, seriously though, I do know the answer and I have no intention of telling you
 
Nooooooo
 
@Daniel what about nobody cares?
 
pretty much this.
I don't care about your deadline
 
7:23 PM
@BartekBanachewicz now now Mrs Bartek
 
what I care about is that you only came here to ask a question.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Don't you have to load into textures and shit?
Also you don't get advantage of WIC
 
@kbok of what?
 
@kbok WIC?
 
@kbok A sprite abstraction is like 30 lines? Prolly less.
 
7:23 PM
@DeadMG well... my tab closed :S
 
WinSDK's native image format loader
 
what.
why would I want to ever use that ever.
 
WIC is plugin-able.
 
It's like loadTheBitmap(), displayTheBitmap()
 
E.g. it can understand new formats as time evolves.
 
7:24 PM
@ThePhD still holds
seriously
 
Can't get simpler than that really
 
@kbok being able to tell it where to display the image would be nice :p
 
@kbok and what is "displayTheBitmap" supposed to do?
copy the pixels to screen buffer like 20 years ago?
 
> d2d_render_target->DrawBitmap(bitmap.get(), rect);
 
if it's nice for loading sure, use it for loading.
then put in OGL texture :V
 
7:25 PM
It's loaded into a Direct2D texture
 
Well you know my opinion on DirectX and DirectDraw
 
Direct2D has its own texture format?
Does it play nice with Direct3D's shit?
If it doesn't I'll cry. =[
 
TLDR don't use ever if not forced to.
 
Yeah. Anyway that was to learn about things and I've been extra careful about being able to swap out the graphics layer later
 
7:26 PM
Wasn't D2D as dead as XNA?
 
@BartekBanachewicz No.
@ThePhD Yes.
also, D2D frankly is a pretty nice API really.
 
@kbok okey, so honestly wrapping OGL texture for 2D usage is trivial. And shall you want anything more complicated than bitbliting it, you're covered
 
@ThePhD it does, if your device supports BGRA formats. which it should
 
7 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@kbok let's see D2D1CreateFactory(D2D1_FACTORY_TYPE_SINGLE_THREADED, &d2d_factory);
 
better than OGL alread
y
 
7:28 PM
Fuck me if it's better than OGL.
 
Lol.
Prepare your anus.
 
@BartekBanachewicz no thanks D:
 
bend over then
 
By what means it's better.
 
oh gawd
 
7:28 PM
It's C/C++/COM/shit
Also, fuckers.
 
COM is terrible
 
@BartekBanachewicz CCCOM++bobreaker
 
frankly, the DirectX part of COM is not that bad.
 
something like that.
 
Guys, COM is from the past. It was pretty good at the time
 
7:29 PM
it's pretty much limited to "Add custom deleter, quick struct for pointer-to-pointer, replace dynamic_cast with QueryInterface".
 
@kbok just as DirectX
 
For not knowing shit, I like openGL
it seems pretty friendly to work with
 
Anyway, saving all the fuckshits for later.
 
@CatPlusPlus can I like, add a platform condition to my Target thing?
 
@Chemistpp then you don't know OGL
I think using Dx is morally wrong.
 
7:30 PM
@BartekBanachewicz my first line ;)
 
Anyway, you are obviously biased and so is @DeadMG and the only thing that matters now is that I get shit done
 
I know that GNU mentality is bullshit
@kbok then use SFML. You get windowing, input, basic graphics, shader support, sound, network, whatnot. You can use singular components, it's open and cross platform, and small.
 
@DeadMG com_cast<Interface>? :D
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, it wasn't to hard to pick up.. but after working with interfaces, I think I should have just learned native api
 
some of the newer ones do ship with QueryInterface<T>.
 
7:31 PM
@Chemistpp which version did you use?
 
@DeadMG some of the newer what
 
> view.setCenter(1056, 640);
 
@BartekBanachewicz 4.3 sdk
 
COM headers.
 
@Chemistpp ooo.
that's unheard of (that a beginner uses new version)
 
7:32 PM
@DeadMG which ones? where?
 
usually people dig 15-year old tutorials.
 
dunno, I don't quite recall
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm new, not an idiot. haha.
 
@kbok Also SFML 2.0 is already the mainline IIRC, and that version is really quite stable, also thanks to community actively developed.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Haha, well I'd like to say it was all easy, but if you looked at my stacked profile questions, you could probably get some good laughs at me.
 
7:34 PM
@BartekBanachewicz TBH using a low-level graphics library is part of the fun too
 
@Chemistpp too much pointers
@kbok that's not "getting shit done". You're changing the requirements.
 
@BartekBanachewicz The graphics part is done, I'm not changing now
Why do I keep inserting words that have nothing to do here
 
@kbok whatever floats your goat. I will continue my crusade on Dx. Anyway it's great you're using Lundi
 
@kbok tourette
 
hopefully we'll move it forward soon.
 
7:36 PM
 
@BartekBanachewicz people dig 15-year olds
 
^ Tourte
 
@BartekBanachewicz If it's any consolation, when I start up on my project I was reading about different APIs to use and not one person advocated dx but several said stay the f away
 
@kbok Moi, je ne parle pas français :) lalalala
 
7:37 PM
@sehe People know the word "burger" but don't necessarily speak german
 
Huh. That's Bratwurst, hein?
 
> fran©ais
 
@Chemistpp if anything, as I said, that kind of stuff (GPU API) should be free and the same for everyone. OGL is connecting mobile, web, embedded, desktops, hell, even mainframes.
 
@sehe Pouette.
 
@kbok du kommt aus deutschland?
 
7:38 PM
@Chemistpp kommst*, Deutschland*
 
@BartekBanachewicz That would be ideal. I went with it because it was cross platform for sure
 
jawohl
 
@Chemistpp You usually find the FOSS folks orgasm over it being Microsoft.
 
Er ist ein Berliner!
 
@sehe yeah, I spell german like I program. Very sloppily
 
7:38 PM
"Berliner" always sound like some sort of boat.
 
@Chemistpp that being said, don't dive in "multiplatform" without thinking
 
Ich liebe Kartoffelsalat
 
the fact OGL works everywhere doesn't mean your code will
 
supporting multiple platforms is a lot tougher than just using the game graphics API.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I only want it to work on mac and windows, so multiplatform may be misleading
 
Xeo
7:39 PM
@kbok s/die//
 
however, if you put time into learning OGL, you will be able to utilize that knowledge on every platform.
 
not to mention that whether or not it's really worth it is questionable for a PC game when 90% of the market or more is Windows.
 
@DeadMG OpenGL on windows runs just fine.
 
@Chemistpp sloppily, sloppily, sloppily, life is but a dream!
 
@Xeo Thanks. It makes much more sense now.
 
and DX saves you from a lot of hassle like no windowing integration in OGL, no extension hell, better supported drivers, etc.
 
@kbok Kartoffen?
 
@DeadMG that's also not a real problem considering number of utils for both
 
Extensions are really not a hassle.
 
7:40 PM
@DeadMG " better supported drivers," I call bullshit
 
@sehe Potato
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel "Berliner" is also a kind of doughnut
 
@BartekBanachewicz When I investigated this, I found the overwhelming majority of utils for both to be utter shit.
 
It's mostly integrated Intel GPUs with OpenGL 1.5 that are a problem.
 
Xeo
Atleast outside of Berlin
 
7:41 PM
 
Xeo
It's called something different in Berlin
 
@Xeo Is it from Berlin?
 
@sehe My whole life is a lie
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel The full name is "Berliner Pfannkuchen", so yeah, I guess?
 
@DeadMG Nicol Bolas wrote GLload; go figure if it's good. And window creation isn't really much different than with Dx, and there's shitload of libraries
 
7:41 PM
@Xeo Ich hab so Heimweh nach dem Kurfürstendamm
 
hell, even writing it yourself is damn easy.
 
the fact that Nicol Bolas wrote a thing is irrelevant.
 
Am I part dislexic if I read EtiennedeMartel and see the word endianness everyytime?
 
Anyway, OpenGL sucks just because Bartek likes it.
 
@Chemistpp dyslexic*
 
7:42 PM
@DeadMG indeed. The relevant thing is that GLload is good.
 
Lol.
 
I don't need microsoft spell check with sehe.
 
@Chemistpp No. That's just a narrow worldview :)
 
I think I'll just use SDL.
 
@kbok Oh god nonononno
 
7:42 PM
@sehe touche
 
@kbok stop right there
 
Listen to me, I built an engine out of that thing for a while for a raytracer.
 
@Chemistpp There are spaces in my name, you know.
 
@Chemistpp s/microsoft// or s/with sehe//
 
Both GL an DX suck. I want BGL back.
 
7:43 PM
ILL USE DIRECTFB ITS GOOD
 
Anybody know a visual studio static code analyzer?
 
@CatPlusPlus BGL?
 
@Mikhail yes, it costs $7500 for a year
 
@EtiennedeMartel not when people click to respond ;) hehe
 
@Mikhail yeah. VS code analysis? Dunno if it's any good
 
7:43 PM
@Mikhail /analyze ships with VS2012 Ultimate. Otherwise, there's a bunch around.
 
@BartekBanachewicz What if I'm a poor student?
 
@sehe Well as long as you don't try to toss in extra 'u's in my words
 
The Borland Graphics Interface, also known as BGI, is a graphics library bundled with several Borland compilers for the DOS operating systems since 1987. BGI was also used to provide graphics for many other Borland products including the Quattro spreadsheet. The library loaded graphic drivers (*.BGI) and vector fonts (*.CHR) from disk in order to provide device independent graphics support. It was possible for the programmer to embed the graphic driver into the executable file by linking the graphic driver as object code with the aid of a utility provided by the compiler (bgiobj.exe). The...
 
@Chemistpp Or type @Eti<Tab>
 
7:44 PM
@Mikhail analyze your code yourself
 
@sehe Ha, I got pinged for that.
 
@CatPlusPlus Sexy.
 
@Chemistpp Chemistpup?
 
@CatPlusPlus I've reimplemented that using OGL
 
@Mikhail Pirate Bay.
 
7:44 PM
> This is a pie chart
 
@EtiennedeMartel Whats the name of the program?
 
I'm working on my own font renderer right now.
 
@sehe I was thinkng words like favor, color, savor, flavor...
 
@ThePhD on FreeType2?
 
It's tough. =/ Still trying to figure out if Freetype is the right way to go to get curves out of OTF files...
 
7:45 PM
there's no other way
 
There's writing it by hand.
 
either you go freetype or use something built on top of it.
 
@CatPlusPlus Oooh. Those were nice times. I remember having to use bgi.tpu in an overlay, because there was only ~350 Kb of RAM for my program, and disk was cheaper than RAM anyways. (*Disk: 3.25" floppy)
 
@CatPlusPlus I used to do all my graphics with a _pipe to gnuplot . I could sustain about 10 fps. Worked pretty damn well..
 
Albeit I might mess up the bezier curve math.
 
7:45 PM
@ThePhD practically impossible.
 
Curves are not a problem.
 
@Chemistpp How am I suppoused to heaur wourds you're thinkuing?
 
@ThePhD it's not that.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Not entirely. The OTF spec is very well documented, unlike TTF.
 
Hinting programs are.
 
7:46 PM
TTF is not only ancient but horrible documented.
 
@ThePhD GL spec is also well documented.
 
@CatPlusPlus Curves are the solution. Also, they're so soft and warm
 
@sehe Well, the words are dynamically allocated
 
Also don't remind me about OTF. :<
 
anyway why am I even in this discussion
seriously
 
7:46 PM
@sehe I didn't think of all of them yet
 
@CatPlusPlus I don't really want hinting, I don't think -- I'm going to be passing triangles down to be drawn ( curves -> triangles -> regular drawing ).
I can customize the "regular drawing" part to get very-tiny-fonts right, if I need to.
 
@Chemistpp I'm sure it's a lazy generator of an infinite sequence
 
Also rendering glyphs is only a part of text rending process.
You still need layouting, which is a whole another project.
 
@sehe oh yeah. spot on.
 
Just use Pango and forget about this reinventing shit nonsense.
 
7:48 PM
@CatPlusPlus I've built a layout system based on kernings and such before, so I'm not terribly inexperienced.
 
Well, or Uniscribe if you don't care about cross-platform.
 
Also, with tesselation, I could just pass giant sheet-surface descriptions and parameterize / rasterize that on the fly.
@CatPlusPlus Pango scares me. ;~;
 
@ThePhD RTL, bidi, vertical scripts, font substitution
Composition.
 
Oh, right. :c
 
Ligatures.
 
7:50 PM
Fiiine I get it.
 
Kerning is pretty trivial.
 
I'll grab me from Freetype and stuff. ;~;
or Pango or w/e
 
Note that FT explicitly doesn't do any layouting.
 
I jsut stated working on font rendering nad openGL
i'm using SDL to handle the surface to texture
but the kerning and crap
no idea
probably too much control for what I'm going for
 
Lol.
SDL.
 
7:51 PM
er
 
haha
 
That library. All the pain it put me through. =[
 
don't write your own font renderer
or you will be fucked six ways from Sunday
 
I'm noob, whats wrong with sdl
 
@kbok So, settled up on a choice of engine, then? :D
 
7:52 PM
@ThePhD It's already done, it's D2D1. The code works so I'm not changing it now
 
I mean other than the surface it creates for me having the R and B channels reversed (for the ttf font rendering)
 
SDL is written in C and it thus has a C API
That's what's wrong with it.
 
I'll probably give OpenGL a chance though, since I'd like my game to run on Android
 
@Magtheridon96 Well so far I think it has been better than glut
but I don't know any other windows managers, so I suck ;)
window* managers
 
You might like SFML 2.0
Window management, event listening, graphics, audio and networking
 
7:55 PM
damn you guys are like Zoidberg
 
Zoidbergs everywhere
 
Zoidberg is inside of me -- and everyone
 
ew
 
user142019
Why not rightfold?
 
I'll look into that. Thanks for the mention mag
 
7:56 PM
cause you were Zoidberg
 
rightfold is a dumb name
 
user142019
DumbMG
 
Pony The Lion
 
user142019
Tony The Pony
 
7:57 PM
@CatPlusPlus thanks!
 
TTL
Tony The Lion
Time To Live
 
@kbok Ah, so 2D game? :D
 
@ThePhD Yeah.
 
I'm going 2D as well and I need text to work out.
 
Fuck Android.
2
 
7:58 PM
I don't have the resources to make a 3d game
 
Also I'm extremely disappointed that lounge.txt is not called lounge.txt.
 
@TonyTheLion Time To Lion
 
@ThePhD D2D can do text :D
 
I have a rasterization-based system in place that can do texture-based fonts, but...
 
@kbok T minus Time To Lion
 
7:59 PM
I do recommend the Win7 platform update that has d2d 1.1 though.
 
@melak47 Yes, so I've realized. But everything I've built so far is built on D3D11 -- I'm hesitant to do D2D1.1
 
user142019
Tony In Lion.
 
@CatPlusPlus I bought an OUYA. Fuck me right
 
@ThePhD d2d 1.1 and d3d11 interact pretty well
 
Xeo
Oooh, Kamisama no Inai Nichiyoubi is looking goood. /cc @Mysticial @StackedCrooked
 

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