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8:00 PM
Unless P is NP or something ;)
 
If the, for lack of a better word, formula, for SHA-256 is known, couldn't it be reverse engineered in some way, or would it just take to much processing?
 
@FredOverflow In this case, even that (probably) wouldn't help.
 
The best crypto systems are open and well-known
 
@Pawnguy7 Not every function is easily reversible.
 
I.e. it isn't so much reverse-engineering as reverse-mathing.
 
8:01 PM
@Pawnguy7 It's designed with the idea that any attacker will know the algorithm. At least so far, nobody's found much in the way of an effective attack on it.
 
@Pawnguy7 You want to read one of this guy's books.
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin I wonder how far @DeadMG has got to cracking sha2
 
I guess that is good, then, rather than ever infamous "security through obscurity"
 
Good things for such people. I still don't get how SSH works :(
 
8:04 PM
This book will explain it to you! Join Alice and Bob on their journey to security.
 
Probably true.
Have you read Effective C++? It seems to be quite popular.
 
Of course I have. Everybody here has.
 
@Ell Not very, the last I heard. IIRC, he's trying to attack it what I'd consider the wrong way. Effective attacks nearly always start by looking at a reduced number of rounds, find a weakness in that, then figure out a way to extend that attack to more rounds. He's starting out trying to attack the full system, which is next to impossible as a starting point.
 
Hehe. I really wonder who started those illustrations.
 
user142019
I just made a beautiful website.
 
user142019
8:05 PM
It works great in Chrome, Safari and Firefox.
 
IP?
 
@Zoidberg link or didn't happen
 
user142019
I open it up in Internet Explorer and it's fucked up as fucking fuckerty fuck.
 
user142019
T_________T
 
@FredOverflow If it mentions inline (I don't remember, the books get blurred in my mind), then @MooingDuck hasn't!
 
8:06 PM
I don't read C++ books
 
Reading a book doesn't mean learning every sentence by heart :)
 
It doesn't?
 
I hear IE 10 is better. Who knows.
 
Doing it wrong.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Except for robots.
 
8:07 PM
I haven't read effective C++.
 
Me neither.
 
Surprising.
 
Which probably explains the state of my brain right now.
 
@FredOverflow I (effectively) haven't (I have the first edition, but it's too dated to count). I do have (a signed copy of) the Effective C++ CD-ROM though.
 
@JerryCoffin I have a signed Effective C++14 USB stick!
 
8:09 PM
@FredOverflow Cool!
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow What?! How?
 
Either time travel or an overactive imagination.
 
I once had an idea. Imagine you had unlimited time, resources, and whatever else you need. IF you were to make an OS purely for running a single game, how much faster do you think it would go? (either rewriting the game or a new game altogether)
 
0.5%
 
Three oranges.
 
8:10 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes o u
 
@Pawnguy7 Too little to measure meaningfully.
 
Three oranges?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I ate one of them, sorry :(
 
@Pawnguy7 wat? an OS that runs a single game? wtf?
 
user142019
@FredOverflow it looks like this (I can't give link since it's not yet online).
 
8:11 PM
@melak47 yes
 
user142019
In IE, the header's background is gone and things are not centered.
 
@Pawnguy7 would not buy.
 
user142019
And that's weird since I'm using Bootstrap.
 
@Zoidberg What a piece o crap.
 
@Zoidberg Did you make that code image yourself? Looks nice.
 
user142019
8:11 PM
@FredOverflow with Instacode. :P
 
@Pawnguy7 Not at all
 
@Zoidberg So which is it going to be? Beautiful, or Dutch?
 
At least use bacon ipsum.
 
I doubt it. This is theoretical. I was just thinking, if you were to scrap the OS in a way that all you are left with is a piece of hardware that solely runs the game, how much faster you could make it.
 
@Zoidberg mhh jquery
 
user142019
8:12 PM
@JerryCoffin Dutch!
 
user142019
@melak47 jQuery <3
 
@Zoidberg nice!
 
user142019
I only made the HTML, CSS and JavaScript.
 
user142019
IMO it doesn't look too bad.
 
What was the link to the website?
 
user142019
8:13 PM
I dislike the giant header though.
 
user142019
@Pawnguy7 instacod.es?
 
Instamarketing
 
@Pawnguy7 Most typical games effectively run directly on the hardware anyway (unless you're talking about one in C#, Java, Javascript, etc.) The OS and such make very little difference at all to most of them.
 
user142019
 
@Pawnguy7 Not at all
 
8:14 PM
@Pawnguy7 It's down.
 
Oh, we're answering again?
Ok, three apples.
 
> 7 A template-id that names an alias template specialization is a type-name.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ...and a couple of grapes.
 
an alias template???
 
Hm. I expected a different answer. Ah, well.
 
8:15 PM
using foo = foo<bar>;
 
@Zoidberg Does the s in sdelete stand for "safe" or "stupid"? :)
 
user142019
@FredOverflow why not both?
 
user142019
Also should be template function not macro.
 
Function template maybe.
#define old delete
 
@Pawnguy7 I couldn't be arsed to boot your single purpose OS just to play that one game. :p
 
8:16 PM
#define fuck new
 
user142019
#define everlasting (void)
 
user142019
auto* foo = new int;
everlasting foo;
 
@melak47 it was theoretical. Actually, I was originally thinking of an arcade game. I am not quite sure what they normally run on, anyway.
 
@Zoidberg Argh, I fucking hate these "safe deletes".
 
user142019
Safe delete only hides errors.
 
user142019
8:18 PM
(And implementing safe deletes implies you use delete which is bad.)
 
#define print(x) printf("%s", #x)
print(hell yeah);
 
There are so many issues with effectively reinventing OS to run the game on bare hardware that you shouldn't even be thinking about it
Performance is not relevant, and even if you gain anything non-trivial you just lost so much time you should just leave industry in shame and work retail
 
Also, what hardware will that OS target? You need to write all the device drivers. By the time you're finished, the hardware is very likely outdated.
 
I was saying, theoretical. Like, your a rich guy who expects to lose all that for this project. I HIGHLY doubt - impossible, I'd say - that you could possible gain on this.
 
also...what good would an OS that just runs a game be? even consoles need to have all sorts of social crap that is always running, draining your precious cpu cycles!
 
8:21 PM
No, you couldn't
 
That was part of my point. No bloatware of any sort, no OS gui, nothing but the game.
 
The point is that ~~~~bloatware~~~~ is not relevant to the performance of the game
It is a non-issue
 
@Pawnguy7 Come to think of it, some very old games did actually boot directly from disk!
 
@CatPlusPlus how so? those threads takee CPU cycles the game could use.
 
Xeo
8:22 PM
I was about to say... what about old consoles?
 
@Pawnguy7 The fact is that back in the DOS days, that was how most games were written (and quite a few other programs too). About the only thing in its favor was that at the time there was essentially no alternative.
 
Plus there wasn't much hardware back then
Also DOS had abstraction too
@Pawnguy7 Irrelevant. Non-issue. No point even thinking about it
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus Why?
 
@CatPlusPlus Let me try an example. Let's say I am running minecraft, a game that is usually a bit slow for me. Is it faster if I have ten other programs running, or by itself?
 
@Pawnguy7 So you are comparing the performance of Minecraft + 10 programs agains the performanc-- what?
 
8:26 PM
@Ell Because doing it the way this guy wants it to do incurs a SUPER MASSIVE COST that offsets any and all performance benefits into oblivion
 
@CatPlusPlus Lack of alternatives in hardware was largely because so much software worked directly with the hardware that you couldn't change hardware without breaking all the software. DOS provided some abstractions, but games mostly didn't use it -- they might use DOS to load data from the disk, but otherwise talked directly to the hardware for essentially everything (keyboard, mouse, and most assuredly, graphics).
 
Ell
He's only wondering hypothetically
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes as compared to minecraft by itself
 
@Pawnguy7 Just don't run those 10 programs. The 10 programs scenario is irrelevant, since your new game-OS cannot run 10 programs.
 
18
Q: Code while standing

bgbgI have a regular, standard, workplace: a desk, a chair an LCD monitor, a mouse and a keyboard. I would like to have the ability to work while standing. I have the feeling that my employer will not will to buy an adjustable desk, instead of the existing one, so I would like to have your help with ...

^ lol
 
8:28 PM
(aka comparing apples to oranges, aka I knew it)
 
@Ell Yeah and it's a waste of time, because it's not in the realm of possibility/sanity, a.k.a. a plain bad idea forget about it
 
@Pawnguy7 Minecraft is nearly the sole example of something I mentioned at the beginning of this: a game that's written in Java. Simply being written in something like C++ would probably make at least some difference.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't think it is irrelivant. Some programs or processes, or services, you cannot stop. But in this theoretical situation, you could.
 
No, you couldn't
You'd just run them in your ~gameOS~
 
Ell
can't we say comparing apples to antique clocks, because I think oranges and apples are quite comparable
 
8:29 PM
@Pawnguy7 Those aren't doing anything when your game is running.
 
Because that's what you'll end up
With an OS built into the game
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I prefer apples.
 
Let's say explorer.exe: is that required to run games?
 
@Pawnguy7 The basic answer is to look at how much CPU time is being used when your system sits idle. That's a fair approximation of how much your game (or whatever) is losing to stuff happening in the background.
 
@Pawnguy7 It does nothing while your game runs.
 
8:30 PM
It is drawing a GUI on the bottom of my screen as we speak.
Maybe that is not ture with fullscreen though.
 
It's not when you switch the game to fullscreen
 
@Pawnguy7 It is not.
 
It's also not an issue in windowed mode either
 
In reality, you're probably losing less than that (some things run only when the system is otherwise idle) but it's at least a starting point (and with a decent CPU, it's usually less than 1% anyway).
 
My system oscillates between 0% and 1% CPU load when idle.
 
8:31 PM
GUI apps are non-existent CPU-wise, because they sit idle in event loop most of the time
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes So you could make the game 1% faster with a dedicated game OS!
 
That's how much the 80 processes I have running take away when I am not using them.
 
You can run your games with higher priority if you really care
That might buy you 1FPS or something
(If the game is even CPU-bound in the first place)
 
I don't want to deal with the stability issues.
I concede, you win :D
 
:lol:
 
8:32 PM
I think I need to look into what processes are running, though: idling with no visible programs gets me 20-30%
 
If you can run the games that exist today at Ultra at 120FPS then what the hell do you want to improve really
 
Ell
@Pawnguy7 It's okay, I can see the reasoning behind your question :P
 
@Pawnguy7 you can kill explorer.exe if you like
 
I don't think somebody in their right mind would invest a million dollars just to get a 1% performance increase through a dedicated game OS when you can just buy better hardware for a fraction of the cost.
 
@CatPlusPlus that is with non normal computers I'd venture. Or, at least, not this laptop.
@melak47 I did, once, but then I had to restart the computer because I didn't know how to restart it haha
 
8:34 PM
@Pawnguy7 task manager -> new task -> explorer
 
@FredOverflow Especially that the game would realistically only work on developer's machine
If it was ever finished
 
@melak47 I learned that, yes :D
 
They'd probably kill themselves long before that
 
If I press play on foobar, it is stable at 1% load.
 
Ell
task manager jenga is fun, end processes until it crashes :P
 
8:34 PM
And that's 1% is probably mostly because of software mixing
 
@Pawnguy7 Are you saying you have 20-30% CPU usage when your system sits idle? If so, you have something seriously wrong. Even on my old 486, it was usually around 2-3%.
 
@Ell kill processes, first one to say "windows will shut down now" lost?
 
Your game OS that cannot play my music can be 1% faster if it has enough stuff to throw at the CPU to keep it at 99% all the time.
 
Ell
yeah :P
 
@CatPlusPlus Just writing the C++ compiler for that game OS would probably take 10 years :)
 
8:35 PM
@FredOverflow Why would you do that
 
Oh wait, you cannot run a C++ compiler on the game OS. It only runs one game.
 
Nobody writes compilers to do OSdev
 
I mean a compiler that runs on that OS.
@JerryCoffin Maybe he has SETI or something on his machine.
 
Ok, I get it, the idea sucks. Leave it be :D
 
@FredOverflow Not really needed
 
8:37 PM
@Pawnguy7 not just yet :D
 
@FredOverflow Maybe -- but most things like that (BOINC, F@H) should normally sit at 100% when they're running, unless you've mis-configured them so they're using fewer cores than you have available. hmm...maybe a GPU version would sit at 20% CPU usage; I can't remember for sure.
 
20% CPU usage... is there a five core CPU? :)
 
Poor idea. Innocently conceived, and was rejected. Now it is crying to itself, wondering what it ever did wrong...
 
user142019
 
@FredOverflow 6 is the closest I know of.
 
user142019
8:40 PM
My new wallpaper. \o/
 
HotS ending was a terrible disappointment
 
@Pawnguy7 ...but kicking dead horses is one of our favorite hobbies. Are you trying to deprive us all of the little fun we have in life?
 
@JerryCoffin I guess I will have to give you that one. Normally I am the one accused of kicking dead horses in person :D
 
That was sad :(
I expected really more
But Super Hexagon has more plot twists than it :/
 
@Pawnguy7 Well, I can see why people would be upset about that. I sure wouldn't want you kicking me just because I ate some horse meat (or maybe that's not quite what you meant by "dead horses in person"?)
 
8:44 PM
@Zoidberg I once saw a background that was white with black lines, isometric looking. It had a structure with shelves, and a desk. On the shelves, they were all the icons. On the desk, was the My computer icon (this was windows), and on the ground near the desk, the recycle bin. I liked that, although I doubt it would help me organize anything.
 
@ShotgunNinja for me making games is fun. You make lame games apparently
 
user142019
@Pawnguy7 my desktop is always empty.
 
user142019
Use Spotlight nub.
 
@JerryCoffin I mean to say, bringing stuff up that others say to let go, I guess.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Like the old (negative) review of a musical: "It was filled with single entendre"?
 
8:45 PM
@Zoidberg Low bat.
 
@Zoidberg I would have expected Zoidberg on your wallpaper.
 
@Zoidberg The only thing I used the desktop for is the recycle bin. Icons are there from installations that I didn't care to remove.
 
@JerryCoffin something like this. I am dissapoint :/
 
user142019
Oh Windows. I don't care about Windows.
 
user142019
Most often I just use Linux and I have no desktop there.
 
8:46 PM
@Pawnguy7 There you go killing my fun again. Oh well, maybe I need to spend some time in the "Java Sucks" room... :-)
 
user142019
My file manager is Z shell and coreutils.
 
user142019
@FredOverflow needs moar JPEG.
 
Ell
@Zoidberg you so stupid.
 
user142019
@Ell why. T_T
 
Ell
8:47 PM
Do you not use computers recreationally at all?
 
user142019
I play Minecraft.
 
@Zoidberg My file manager is HexEdit (or in a pinch, a magnetized needle).
 
user142019
But I don't see how that is related to file managers.
 
Ell
what about facebook?
Oh wiait
 
user142019
That too.
 
Ell
8:47 PM
maybe I misread
 
user142019
Still unrelated to file managers.
 
@Ell have you possibly tried to run minicraft on linux?
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I haven't. But I will now :3
 
user142019
I use Minecraft, Skype, Pixelmator, OmniGraffle and Google Chrome and that's about it when it comes to non-programming things.
 
@Zoidberg Even though PNG is better?
 
user142019
8:49 PM
It was sarcastic.
 
user142019
That Zoidberg wallpaper should be PNG or TIFF.
 
user142019
But God why JPEG. T_T
 
TIFF?
I hope that is sarcastic as well.
 
user142019
Yes you know, tagged image file format.
 
user142019
TIFF is a great format.
 
8:50 PM
29 secs ago, by Etienne de Martel
I hope that is sarcastic as well.
 
user142019
It's not.
 
You have less and less credibility for each passing day.
 
Thousands of Incompatible File Formats
@EtiennedeMartel You're saying that as if he had any left
 
@JerryCoffin yes, my sarcasm sensor is below par apparently.
I nominate myself.
 
@Pawnguy7 What sarcasm? I'm just that good!
 
8:53 PM
@CatPlusPlus I want to believe, but it's sooo haaaaard.
 
@ScottW Cheap starbait if ever I saw any.
 
@JerryCoffin I am confused. Is this more sarcasm? :D
 
@ScottW Me
 
@ScottW Zoidberg, obviously.
 
What do stars get you?
 
8:54 PM
@Pawnguy7 I'm never sarcastic. Never!
 
@Pawnguy7 A larger e-penis.
 
Hm. I don't think I would care - I mean,look at my rep haha.
 
@Pawnguy7 Temporary fame on the starboard.
 
@Pawnguy7 A few downvotes away from losing the right to talk in this room.
 
I do believe, though, if you program worse than me, you are pretty bad... :D
 
8:55 PM
@Pawnguy7 We don't believe in rep. The highest rep definitely does not mean the best programmer.
 
I find waiting for questions you can answer to come up, and getting beaten, tiresome. Not to mention, most C++ questions are above me...
 
@ScottW Jon Skeet doesn't hang out in the lounge, so he's not even a real person.
 
user142019
touchey
 
user142019
douchey
 
touché, is it?
 
user142019
8:57 PM
Eat bacon.
 
user142019
@ScottW Gadverdamme.
 
@ScottW Deep fried bacon with ice cream and whipped cream on top.
 
Ell
Right I'm in linux
sorry it took so long. I went to get cereal and it made a giant cascade of jobs
 

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