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12:00 AM
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: ITT: looking for recommendations for feed readers to replace Google Reader [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [no-helpdesk] [no-iphone]
 
sex prolly
 
@BartekBanachewicz that's an okay deal :p
 
@sehe why?
 
@JohnTyree I mean to imply your judgement is off due to sample bias, at least
 
ITT?
 
12:00 AM
@JohnTyree because google reader is dying
@wilx newfag.
 
1 min ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@wilx slowpoke
 
I am going to sleep, it's goddamn 1 AM
 
user142019
struct entity_base **entities; I'm a two-star programmer!
 
@BartekBanachewicz Happens everyday
 
How long does it take to go from terrible design skills to code that you can look at and NOT hate?
 
12:01 AM
@Zoidberg Get. Off. My. Lawn!
 
@Pawnguy7 the whole life.
 
@BartekBanachewicz is it? I have been avoiding it altogether lately. Never get anything done otherwise.
 
@Pawnguy7 It never happens
 
Hm... at what point do you design well enough that you finish a project?
 
Speaking of... I'm off. Have fun with.. whatever this is. Bizarro IRC 3.0+ Enhanced edition.
 
12:02 AM
@Pawnguy7 Those to things are (sadly) orthogonal
 
user142019
@sehe I have never been on your lawn.
 
@sehe I do not follow
 
@Zoidberg Sorry, i must have been confused
 
@Pawnguy7 he means never.
 
@Pawnguy7 Look at PHP. Case closed.
 
user142019
12:03 AM
struct entity_vtable {
    void (*render)(void);
};
 
user142019
^ lol
 
So you are always better than before, but never good enough, sort of?
 
@Pawnguy7 Never perfect. Frequently good enough
 
user142019
The principle of good enough (sometimes abbreviated to POGE) is a rule for software and systems design. It favours quick-and-simple (but potentially extensible) designs over elaborate systems designed by committees. Once the quick-and-simple design is deployed, it can then evolve as needed, driven by user requirements. Ethernet, the Internet protocol and the World Wide Web are good examples of this kind of design. This kind of design is not appropriate in systems where it is not possible to evolve the system over time, or where the full functionality is required from the start. Quantitati...
 
> Now, Tony – here's a little puzzle for you. I want you to take a look at this piece of Java code (turn Tony to face screen). (Tony whispers) What do you mean you don't know Java? All right, here's the C# code instead...
 
12:04 AM
@Zoidberg You trying to to C interop in zoidlang/daklong/zoidsharp/ whatnot?
 
user142019
@sehe I'm writing a video game in C.
 
@Zoidberg you are outright retarded
2
 
@sehe so it is of higher priority to learn task-managing, patience, perseverance, you would say?
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz have a star.
 
I suspected it.
 
12:05 AM
@Zoidberg lol
 
Now I know for sure
 
user142019
lol
 
@Pawnguy7 just code a lot.
 
@Xeo halfway there, though I just now realized the cases are checked in reverse order. I have to fix that. Once I fix that, do_switch should be trivial. Then I'll work on the return values.
 
@Pawnguy7 no. yeah probably. it's of higher priority to keep your sanity and just ship things once in a while
 
12:05 AM
lol
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck Keep it up! :)
 
Also it needs simplification, but I got default cases theoretically. (untested)
 
@BartekBanachewicz But finish some things, or you'll end up being a Zoidby
 
@sehe yes.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I have. I think it is because I make the same mistakes and don't learn: mostly the ones I listed above, but also in design.
 
12:07 AM
@Pawnguy7 so move on from my advice to sehe's : ship.
make a set of requirements and fullfill them
then evaluate
 
(Note: not that there is anything wrong with being a Zoidby, because, if you write his level of coding, all you need is an external motivator (=slave driver) to get you to finish things!)
 
@Zoidberg This is basically what I have done when we were buying our dish washer. My wife got mad at me that I have decided on one between 6 she has chosen in 2 minutes. She thought I was not thorough enough. I thought any of the 6 will be good enough :D
 
sorry if I talk strangely but I am really sleepy.
but I want to finish the article about Tony The Pony
 
@Xeo I think I'm doing expression templates wrong though, it seems like constructing them would call the move constructors a large number of times...
 
12:08 AM
each case causes a move-construct of all previous cases. Is that right?
 
Sounds like a good idea, but I keep failing my requirements. But how much lower can you go thenpong?
 
@BartekBanachewicz no
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck Can't look at it right now. :s
 
@MooingDuck I know.
@Pawnguy7 game development is a very complicated subject. Perhaps apps would be easier
Games are specialized and distinct part of software
 
@BartekBanachewicz You're looking at the Tony the Pony show
 
12:09 AM
different rules apply
 
well even in the general case, expression templates seem like they require a move of all "nested" operations into themselves. I can't imagine it really working any other way...
 
1 min ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
but I want to finish the article about Tony The Pony
 
@BartekBanachewicz I recognized it :)
 
You might be on to something. Let's assume I make an app. What does it do? Unlike games, I have no ideas for apps.
 
@sehe heh, nice.
@Pawnguy7 Let's start with a simple database
say you have some CDs
you'd like to organize them.
oooor
 
12:10 AM
boooooring
 
A calculator is a nice topic too.
@sehe propose something yourself
Much more interesting would be a brainfuck interpreter @Pawnguy7
 
A calculator could work, although I do wonder of the GUI.
 
it isn't as hard as it looks
@Pawnguy7 CLI
 
Is that avaliable outside VS?
 
Command Line Interface
too bad they stole that :/
 
12:12 AM
oh...
I failed pretty hard there -_-
 
4 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
sorry if I talk strangely but I am really sleepy.
 
I could do that, yes.
I had an idea.
 
there's nothing wrong with very very simple projects
 
Not sure why, but I like the idea of abstracting a book.
 
+1
 
12:13 AM
Say, you can store books - pages, chapters, books, author, etc, and "read" them back.
 
I am not sure if I get it
 
@Pawnguy7 Wait. Automatically? This is crazy stuff. Unless, you'd be satisfied with "the first sentence of each paragraph" as an "abstract" ?
@Pawnguy7 Or you mean "modeling" (as in, data modeling?)
 
The latter, I think.
 
Ah. Go for it. It's basically this:
4 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@Pawnguy7 Let's start with a simple database
 
I just wanted to say we're back to database
 
12:15 AM
Pretty much, yes.
I guess in this case, it should be easier to fulfill requirements, and build up more slowly...
 
CDs are nice too, srsly
with some help from SFML, you could make commandline music player
 
Do it 5 times. Use (1) simple file backend (2) SQL database (3) mongodb (4) C++ with std containers and Boost Serialization (5) memory mapped files with STL containers located in the mapped region using custom allocators and 'fake' pointers :)
 
(5) is something I should do, I guess, not a beginner :P
 
SQL... hm
 
12:17 AM
^ that's the @Zoidberg approach by the way. Be sure not to spend a lifetime on each variant. Just make it so that you are certain you actually know what it is about and what it takes.
 
And don't add requirements when writing
 
I tried learning the... general syntax of SQL. At the same time, I feel like I wouldn't know where to start, but it would be useful for web dev.
 
you have to start somewhere
just keep it all on github
that way you can see improvements directly :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz I think that is a pretty good idea, actually - you solidy it all beforehand - planning is good - and then don't try to outplan yourself while writing.
 
@Pawnguy7 SQL is indispensible. Even if you don't get to use it directly, you (a) still need to know how it is structured (b) will run into many things that work the same way (set-oriented)
 
12:21 AM
@Telkitty sheesh... That thing's been there for something like 10 years now. I needed a place drop files. At least now I know why I got two emails out of the blue.
 
> Java explicitly says that java.util.Date and Calendar may or may not account for leap seconds depending on the host support
@Shog9 you accidentally a word.
 
That reminds me.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I dropped that too
 
Apparently, java has something called strictfp, was it?
 
user1357851
@Shog9 Oo ... I change my website every 2-3 years because I just have the impulse to do so :p
 
12:23 AM
I used to do that. Then I got sick of it and just did the random stylesheet thing.
Now it changes itself for me.
 
user1357851
@Shog9 just 2? I put my email out and I GOT SPAMMED (by spammers)
 
user1357851
literally, so I closed that email account and opened another one (my own email server)
 
You're terrible at training your filters
 
I, while learningjavascript/php, made something - very basic - where you could write code in a form, chose a name, and press submit. PHP created the file and linked to it. Funny thing was, you could re-create the create page itself.
 
Ell
Even very very simple projects require work and dedication
 
12:24 AM
@Telkitty Obviously, you set a low bar. Getting your life saved by a website as a prerequisite for emailing tends to weed out the pretenders.
 
@StackedCrooked mmm. it looks as if the response time to Coliru 'view' links is increasing ... substantially (>3s)? Did I hit the server at a bad time or is something not scaling too well?
 
user1357851
@ScottW or not signed up for
 
user1357851
I was naive enough to try and press the unsubscribe links, they NEVER unsubscribe my email account
 
Xeo
Oooh, I hope I can finish this proposal - the idea itself is clear in my head, but I need to put it down on paper too x_x
 
15 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
there's nothing wrong with very very simple projects
I finished the article, sleepz. GN loungers.
 
Xeo
12:28 AM
night
 
Is Github ever used for code reviews?
 
@BartekBanachewicz nigh
@Pawnguy7 of course. everything is.
...
 
user1357851
I often download things from github
 
Xeo
Erm, why doesn't that make a link... :|
 
http://
Oh wait you have it.
 
Xeo
12:31 AM
nope
 
Lol, id[] is probably fucking your shit up.
 
Escape them brackets?
 
Oh boy, I just watched another Bones episode with that villain that encoded malware on human bone :) This time, he encrypted emails. "How did he do it?" - "With parameterized complexity!" :D
 
Xeo
@LucDanton That's inside backticks :/
Hmpf
It converted to a link for a second.
Welp, without backticks / code then
 
Fuck markdown!
Oh god
That's horrible
 
Xeo
12:33 AM
The fuck are you doing xD
 
Lol, markdown is retarded.
 
Is there a gallery of all qwidgets for Qt for windows, linux and mac?
 
user1357851
Now to think about it I actually trust GitHub a lot, downloading from unknown author and not think I would get infected by the lasted virus embedded in their precompiled lib comes with it
 
JESUS CHRIST MARKDOWN SUCKS
 
@Xeo: it just dawned on me that switch_any("HI").case("HI", [&]{}); will compile and run and maybe or maybe not act as expected. :/
 
12:34 AM
That was horrible. xD
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck Oh, why?
 
God, markdown is definitely a one-trick pony, that's for sure.
 
If I were to, say, work on a small project, and though my code needed some review, and put it up on Github, would any of YOU review it?
 
@Xeo It will type deduce const char*, and the one in the switch and the one in the case might or might not compare as equal.
 
Xeo
Oh, welp, I'd probably specialize for char const* and provide a array_ptr helper or so that disables that.
 
12:36 AM
@Xeo no wait, it will deduce const char(&)[3], and then fail to compile since arrays can't be moved. No problem.
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck Do you have T&& or T?
 
or I could specialize switch_any for const char(&)[N] and make that use std::string...
 
Xeo
Don't unnecessarily construct a std::string!
 
@Xeo const T& for switch, T for case labels.
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck Then you get char const* for the case labels
 
12:37 AM
@Xeo I suppose I could add an equals template param and specialize that.
@Xeo labels are required to be the same type as the switch, no issue there.
Yeah, I'll do the equals template param.
you know, after I work out all the other things
 
Use T&&.
 
@LucDanton that prevents the ability to store the entire thing for later usage.
@LucDanton you weren't here for the first part of the discussion, do you know what the topic is?
 
Arbitrary switching?
 
@LucDanton alright, yes :D
 
You doubt that I don't have the basic ability to read? :|
 
12:45 AM
@LucDanton I couldn't remember how far back we last mentioned "switch", and I didn't read.
 
Yeah I could still read back then.
 
user142019
If I want to draw a cube with different textures on each side, is it possible to do this with only 8 vertices or do I need 24 vertices?
 
user142019
In OpenGL.
 
@Zoidberg I think you might be able to store texcoords in yet a different buffer and reuse the vertex positions? idk
 
user142019
Because texcoords go with vertices, right?
 
user142019
12:48 AM
@melak47 maybe I could do that.
 
I think I read somewhere that you can somehow piece the vertices together from different buffers, but I have no clue
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck Why would it?
 
you could always send a flag or some crap to the shader that tells you which face of the cube? is to be rendered, and use texcoords accordingly?
 
Xeo
Btw @LucDanton, any comments on the "generated" function object?
 
@Xeo oh, misread, he meant the switch thing
 
12:50 AM
Not right now
 
the switchvalue I take as.... const T& and store as a const T*.
 
Hello, World!
 
Ell
Hello
 
waiiiit.... thing& thing::function(params){body; return *this;} is turning my temporary into a non-movable object? I guess.... that kinda makes sense...
 
Ell
has anyone here done any SYS admim, eg active directory?
 
12:53 AM
Sigh. Lost my precious connection to the webs again.
 
@melak47 @Zoidberg melak is right. In OpenGL, the usual way to send vertex information is to stream them from multiple different contiguous slots in memory. D3D can do this as well but most D3D data is interleaved (all the data is together).
In most cases, interleaving your data is your best bet.
 
user142019
So I'd have this.
 
@Ell Yes, thanks. Next...
 
If you're going to interleave your data, then yes, you'd need 24 vertices.
 
cube?
 
user142019
12:54 AM
struct vertex {
    struct point point;
    struct texcoord texcoord;
};
 
@Zoidberg what about normals :o
 
user142019
@ThePhD ah okay, thanks.
 
Ell
@martin its a simple question, I know but I can't quite grasp what ad actually is :3
is it what users use to log on?
 
@melak47 Wot? There are normals in here?
 
If you're going to stream separate buffers, you'd have to have two separate buffers and you'd most likely need an index buffer as well.
 
12:55 AM
does gcc not support rvalue reference qualifiers on member functions? Or am I just doing it wrong?
 
Where's it going wrong?
 
@MooingDuck You're probably doing it wrong...
 
@ThePhD is that how it'd work in D3D, too? mutliple vertex buffers? how does that work with the input layouts
 
@MooingDuck Does not
 
@Code-Guru probably
 
12:57 AM
Or any kind
 
@MooingDuck =p
 
@melak47 You'd change the Type of the INPUT LAYOUT to say "use multiple vertex buffers", then you'd give each vertex buffer a different trait.
 
@LucDanton oh...
 
@MooingDuck even if gcc doesn't support it...
 
@Ell It's a bit more than that. I'm sorry, but at this time of night, I really don't want to go there. I'm so ratted I could spread bubonic plague or Weil's disease.
 
12:57 AM
The problem is, I can't see that going well for indexing, because there's only 1 index buffer allowed in D3D
 
@ThePhD ah. I was wondering how I'd tell it which buffer has which layout
 
Maybe you'd pack multiple indices into each Index Buffer slot?
 
Ell
@martin hehe okay, thanks anyway :)
 
Like {0, 1} {0, 0} etc. etc.
But I don't know how to make the graphics card do that in D3D, let alone OpenGL.
I'm sure @BartekBanachewicz would know how to in openGL.
 
@ThePhD even if you could, I don't think you can tell it how to interpret those indices :/
 
1:02 AM
Yerp, I have no idea how.
So you're better off just interleaving data like a good boy.
Or writing a batcher of some kind that does the interleaving for you.
 
but wait, what are multiple vertex buffers used for then
 
What IDE's do you use?
 
enum class VertexDataUsage {
	PerVertex = D3D11_INPUT_PER_VERTEX_DATA,
	PerInstance = D3D11_INPUT_PER_INSTANCE_DATA,
};
PerInstance means "get one trait per vertex buffer"
 
template<class B>
struct A : B {
    auto func() -> decltype(B::func()) //error: cannot call member function 'A<B>::func() without object
    {return B::func();}
};
 
I should change it's name to "PerBuffer"
 
1:04 AM
@ThePhD huh? what? per instance is when you do instancing. I don't follow
 
PerInstance can also mean "one attribute per vertex buffer"
 
...in what way
 
user142019
@Pawnguy7 none.
 
@Zoidberg Text editor for you, correct?
 
user142019
Vim.
 
user142019
1:07 AM
I wouldn't ever use anything else.
 
@melak47 Woops, my bad!
It's the input slot, not that.
> InputSlot | Type: UINT | An integer value that identifies the input-assembler (see input slot). Valid values are between 0 and 15, defined in D3D11.h.
 
?
 
So you specify a vertex attribute for each part of the input layout, then tell it which vertex buffer to get that attribute from.
^ From there
When you're doing your Input layout
 
ah
 
and setting teh InputSlot on the D3D_INPUT_ELEMENT_DESC
You set it to the vertex buffer you need.
 
1:09 AM
so, positions = 0, normals = 1, etc
 
Yeah
 
if you wanted to split them like that
 
You can also do position = 0, normals = 0, colors = 1, etc.
Multiple attributes can go into the same vertex stream.
 
yeah, that's the default :p
hmm, but they would still use the same index for each buffer
 
Maybe?
I dunno.
Yeah, you're right.
I don't see any capabilities to specify multiple indices per stream.
 
1:12 AM
@melak47 It depends. They're generic attributes.
 
I guess the only benefit of streaming different buffers of data is that you can change a small subset of the data on the fly.
 
@MarkGarcia I meant as an example, I can stream whatever attribute from whatever bound buffer by specifying there which one
 
For example, for fast footprints and other things,
 
On linux?
 
you can put the Texture Coordinates for Vertices on another buffer
And then just manipulate texture coordinates only, while the rest of the geometry's attributes remain static.
 
1:14 AM
@ThePhD The smaller portion you change (using mapping or whatever), less overhead is incurred. It's more prevalent when thread-safety is enabled.
 
Mmm.
 
maybe you could...keep just 4 vertices in one buffer, and your texcoords in a different buffer, but make the texcoords per instance, and then draw 6 instances of your 4 vertices, apply a rotation per instance, and stream the texture coordinates
but that still draws 24 vertices so, bleh
@Zoidberg why do you want to save those 16 verts anyway?
 
Xeo
[02:17:54] <Xeo> zygoloid: And while we're at suggestions... your opinion on how overload resolution within the "call" members should be handled would be nice too. Should it be handled as if the function object was actually written out like that? And restrictions on ADL or other lookup stuff?
[02:18:00] <Xeo> zygoloid: (Also, would `an_obj.std::max(....)` be an SFINAEble thing inside `decltype`? For when you do []std::max or similar qualified things. Although I guess... I could just specialize on qualified-id, and allow that as an escape-hatch to *force* f(args...) invokation. Nice.)
^ /cc @LucDanton @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
Does anybody here use Visual Studio?
 
1:21 AM
@Pawnguy7 yes
 
@melak47 any feedback on how you feel about it?
 
it's nice
 
@Pawnguy7 Ask of those who doesn't.
 
well worth the $12000 if you can afford it :p
 
In this case, I'd be going it free.
 
1:22 AM
@melak47 There's free versions anyway. ;)
 
@MarkGarcia are you one such person?
 
@Pawnguy7 I use VS2012. I think there's one person here who doesn't (Vim)? :)
 
One factor here is, I am on windows. MinGW is nice, but not the same as GCC.
I am not sure if for @Zoidberg it is that, or the "Wimps, a master needs no IDE's" kind of thing.
Not that that argument does not have merit - it does - but IDE's can give you a boost to productivity.
 
There we go! @Xeo, @LucDanton
now I have to go home because my wife will be mad by now :(
 
@Pawnguy7 I'm an IDE guy. I'm lazy at fiddling command line arguments.
 
Xeo
1:25 AM
@MooingDuck lol
 
@MarkGarcia that, and I don't know the build scripts either.
My goodness, Visual studio is big.
 
@MooingDuck That doesn't look as readable as a normal switch statement :(
 
@MarkGarcia Please forgive me for following the unofficial Lounge guidelines, but yes, fuck command-line interfaces, they should have died in the 70's.
 
Why don't you use a makefile generator?
 
To whom are you referring?
 
1:32 AM
You.
 
I don't know of any.
Although one could argue, an IDE kind of IS a makefile generator.
 
@MartinJames Still, if compiler's aren't invoke "command-line"ly, we would then be stuck on binary interface hell.
 
I use Visual Studio 2012 for my Windows stuff
and I use QtCreator for my MinGW stuff
I like qmake I guess
 
What is your minGW stuff?
 
when I'm coding lol
I don't use VS2012 much anymore
 
Ell
1:34 AM
I use a text editor and cmake on Linux, and ide in windows
 
there's also Sublime Text 2 if I'm just running a single cpp file
 
Ell
Anyway night y'all
 
So your windows stuff is not minGW? Confused...
 
I use Visual Studio 2012 as my debugger
though QtCreator makes GDB usable..
 
How is VS's debugger?
 
1:38 AM
:8252830 @MooingDuck How about this
template<class B>
struct A : B {
    auto func() -> decltype(this->B::func())
    {return B::func();}
};
 
Sigh.
I cannot seem to make a Microsoft account.
 
Does anybody else here have a microsoft account?
 
sure. lot's of people do. why
 
I cannot seem to make one.
 
1:51 AM
well what can I say
 
I tried, but it said xxx@example.com is not avaliable.
I assume this means, it is in use.
 
probably
 
But if I try recovering the password on that, I get:
The microsoft account you entered does not exist.
 
@MarkGarcia What happened to IE11?
Or was I hallucinating and IE11 never existed?
 
not yet
 
1:52 AM
Ah.
 
@Pawnguy7 sooo you're using an old hotmail.com account? are you sure you can still log on to it regularly?
 
@ThePhD But it's in development.
 
@sehe in this case, it is a gmail account, actually.
 
@Pawnguy7 ah. it appears they want you to use a "microsoft account" - or you're mistakenly using the 'sign in' form a.o.t. 'sign up'
 
IS that incorrect?
 
1:55 AM
@Pawnguy7 no clue. of course, that link doesn't work for me. Interestingly, it does redirect to login.live.com./blablablablabla
 
You don't have a hotmail from the 90s?!
 
When I did it it redirected to here: signup.live.com/signup.aspx?lic=1
 
yeah that page is what I redirect t
 
Well, back in a school course a while back, we were leaning VB. (yes, VB, I know). Anyway, the course was longer than 30 days, and so I think I registered it back then.
login.live.com is not the same as that?
 
I love how hotmail.com still redirects
Oh it's still called Hotmail
Isn't that interesting.
 
1:59 AM
So, I think I have a microsoft account... but when I try to recover it, it says it does not exist...
I also tried logging in using that email and several of my... "universal" passwords. No luck.
 

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