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6:00 PM
@MooingDuck that's bad design from ground on.
 
@sbi That's a shame, because you absolutely should refer to the Zoidberg that I thought it did. That character is hilarious.
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck No. Just no. Why does the character even need to know it's part of a network?! Why would he care whether there's any audio or not?!
 
Games aren't made that way
 
Of course a poor design will require globals.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I've seen lots of terrible designs that didn't use globals.
 
6:01 PM
@BartekBanachewicz right, I didn't notice, sorry
 
@JerryCoffin lol
 
@Xeo right, fair enough: move_character would have to be passed all the networking stuff as parameters to send the move message to all other players. Also the audio so it can start playing the walking sound. Also the character itself to move the character. Also the world to check for collisions.
 
It just seems @MooingDuck, no offence, that you are trying to tell us that static/globals/program class is required to solve a problem that occurs because of fucked up design
 
Xeo
...
 
Oh, we are we talking more designy/architectural stuff that someone with a not-so-great knowledge of C++ can participate in? `Cause, if that's the case, I'm your guy.
 
6:01 PM
@casperOne gamedev specific, as it seems. or not. ignore me.
 
@MooingDuck Add an abstraction layer.
 
@MooingDuck No. It's trying to do too much.
 
@casperOne I think the correct response there is "jump right in".
 
The character doesn't need all that bullshit to move anyway.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes somewhere there has to be a function that knows to do all of those things when a character tries to move. I can't think of any other design.
 
6:02 PM
@JerryCoffin Don't mind if I do. I've never had a chance to talk about something not site-governance related before here.
 
It's a false problem.
 
@EtiennedeMartel those are all the things that must happen when a character tries to move. Period.
 
@MooingDuck that doesn't mean there isn't one
@MooingDuck that's not how you do it.
 
@BartekBanachewicz nobody has suggested one.
 
@MooingDuck Your mistake is to assume there has to one function that knows all that.
 
Xeo
6:03 PM
@MooingDuck I got a great idea: Don't do stuff immediately. Normally, you have a game tick. How about gathering all character positions at the end of the tick to send out?
 
@MooingDuck This is the sort of problem that publish/subscribe and observer were designed to deal with.
 
@MooingDuck process it as events.
 
How about this: do you know of any online (and free) resources that teaches correct abstraction or OOP principles?
 
@JerryCoffin Agreed.
 
@Pawnguy7 there aren't any.
 
6:03 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes What they're all in seperate functions? Fine. And they're called by.... one event function handler function. One function.
 
Game programming is inherently event based anyway.
 
@MooingDuck but this function doesn't need to take 187 parameters then.
 
@MooingDuck Well, now that function is at top level. You don't need to pass everything to everything now.
 
@MooingDuck You may want to encapsulate a bunch of small-scale events or something that get produced as a result of the movement (ie. SoundEvent, etc), and dispatch those off to a mediator or something.
 
Xeo
You're tangling up independent stuff with your design.
 
6:04 PM
@BartekBanachewicz something has to fire the events, along with the parameters they need.
 
@MooingDuck The character?
 
@MooingDuck And it needs not to know about those.
 
Let's say we're handling move. Then the character could say "hey, I moved there". The network code gets that event, and sends a message.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I think I just found my error
 
@MooingDuck fire a general type of events and let the components observe
 
6:05 PM
Basically, there are two things. There's the state of the universe, and reactions to changes in the universe. You should separate along those lines, and can possibly separate even further against ripple effects in-universe, and things that are not essential to maintaining the state of the universe, like sounds, rendering, etc. Don't confuse the two (which it appears to be what is happening here).
 
That's where you insert decoupling points, like the aforementioned pub/subs. You don't need to know who your subscribers are.
 
@MooingDuck Yeah, but you can decouple the need to refer to the sound system, graphics system, network system, etc. into the event classes, so only those event classes are tied to their specific systems.
 
@BartekBanachewicz where's the networking component? A global?
 
@MooingDuck no, an instance
 
@MooingDuck Why does it matter?
 
6:06 PM
Also, I'm proposing my own solution, which may or may not be in line with what others are proposing.
 
Could be a local in main, if that matters.
 
Xeo
@casperOne The most basic form of that is the division between updating a game and rendering a game.
 
@Pawnguy7 Might be able to find a decent book on something like Safari -- but it's the sort of subject that really requires a book.
 
@EtiennedeMartel because the start of all this was "no singletons and no globals and no class that holds the state of the game".
 
store it in set<Observer> in some Observers class
 
6:07 PM
@MooingDuck Why does it need to be global?
 
@MooingDuck and there aren't any
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz ugh plural classname.
 
Ever so slowly, you're all designing a Windows GUI system.
 
@BartekBanachewicz then where is the networking instance?
 
@Xeo Doesn't C++ have some standard event broker implementation which can be DI'ed into these classes?
 
6:07 PM
@MooingDuck There was also something about passing everything everywhere.
 
@MooingDuck in that set two lines above
 
Xeo
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Could be a local in main, if that matters.
 
user142019
@MooingDuck kernel!
 
@MooingDuck I usually have an Application class somewhere that has the few components as members.
 
@BartekBanachewicz so it's in a global set.
 
6:07 PM
Then I declare an Application instance as a local in main.
 
@MooingDuck it's not global.
where the fuck is that global
 
@MartinJames Any visual, interactive game (other than text-based games) which works on Windows has some form of a GUI, and is therefore, a type of Windows-based GUI system.
 
15 mins ago, by Mooing Duck
@Pawnguy7 not using the word singleton. Use a "main program class", which contains a resource cache.
 
What global?
 
Xeo
@casperOne Not really. There's Boost.Signals, but that's about it.
 
6:08 PM
global means publicly accesible from everywhere
 
user142019
@MooingDuck wat.
 
this set is NOT
 
@MooingDuck By "global", I'm mean "globally accessible".
 
user142019
Just put the resource cache in the main function.
 
It doesn't even have to be a local in main. It can be an object with internal linkage in some TU.
 
6:09 PM
@EtiennedeMartel apparently he has some other definition of "global"
 
Has the same effect: isn't up for grabs everywhere.
 
Debate started when I said to put things like the resource cache and networking components and whatnot in an Application instance in main. And it looked like Xeo disagreed.
 
15 mins ago, by Mooing Duck
@Xeo there's not really any other way to do things besides globals.
This was what ticked people off.
 
user142019
People y u forget about function arguments.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that was after he discounted a "main application class".
 
6:10 PM
@Zoidberg we are not.
 
user142019
Also Reader monad. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
Do new programmers generally have difficulty learning good design, or is it me?
 
@Pawnguy7 generally true.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, if you don't do things the right way, there's not really any other way to do things besides the wrong way.
 
user142019
@Pawnguy7 Why not both? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
6:11 PM
@MooingDuck if the main class responsibility is just to juggle components that's cool. But it shouldn't do anything on its own
 
user142019
btw I don't see problem with a cache being global.
 
@MooingDuck Let's just say that we all misread you then.
 
yeah, I think this whole thing was either Xeo misinterpretting me, or me misinterpreting Xeo, and then everyone else misinterpreted me :(
 
@Zoidberg because you suck
 
@MooingDuck Well, you kinda started defending singletons afterward.
 
6:11 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I agree
 
@Zoidberg Is this an ambiguity in that I didn't not say "ONLY" me, or something else?
 
@MooingDuck okey then. We are getting somewhere.
 
user142019
@Pawnguy7 Yes. (Asking questions containing "or" to programmers can make for funny answers; usually "Yes.")
 
@MooingDuck i.e., we read it as " there's only one way to do things: globals."
 
user142019
6:13 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I disagree.
 
also Starcraft won't log me in
 
@MooingDuck You were not clear enough. You should have said "Fuck you Bartek" and then set your balls on fire.
 
@EtiennedeMartel s/your/Bartek's/
 
@Zoidberg Same issues as with any global thing.
@R.MartinhoFernandes There was no mistake in there.
 
yeah, it wasn't until you guys started suggesting an Application class that holds components that I realized it appeared as though I was defending the opposite side that I held.
 
6:14 PM
lol
 
@MooingDuck Told you about the fiery balls thing.
 
That awkward moment when you realize you don't know what you are arguing anymore... I have done that :\
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Where we steal your side of the argument and leave you arguing for something you don't agree with. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [no-helpdesk]
 
We all do. Except maybe the puppy.
 
@EtiennedeMartel puppy just moves goalposts.
 
6:16 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes WABBIT SEASON! DUCK SEASON!
 
Have we had a 'Fuck globals' yet? I've kinda lost track..
 
I don't know what the reference to the puppy implies.
 
@MooingDuck Yeah. So fucking anoying.
 
@Pawnguy7 You're clearly new here :)
 
6:17 PM
@MooingDuck d'awwwwwww
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes within the week, yes.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes new here* fix'd
 
@ShotgunNinja Comma Fucker.
 
@Pawnguy7 the guy with 120496 posts in this room alone
 
I think DeadMG was here since the dawn of time.
 
6:17 PM
@ThePhD bahahaha, I just read about that on Cracked at lunch today.
 
we have 11 room owners? I thought the max was 10
 
Just watch, DeadMG is secretly Bjarne Stroustrup or something...
 
@ThePhD What? Even BD, (before Daisy)?
 
@MooingDuck It's in binary.
 
@ShotgunNinja We've heard his voice, they sound nothing alike
@ShotgunNinja Also, he dislikes C++
 
6:19 PM
Anyone knows if stdint.h is available on GCC 4.2?
 
@MooingDuck Damn.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I thought GCC had stdint for like, a million years?
 
I wonder what the other rooms are like...
 
MSVC was the only one lacking stdint for a long-ass time.
 
@MooingDuck If you were responsible for a programming language for 30-40 years, wouldn't you hate it too?
 
6:20 PM
Also, CatPlusplus has no message count in the room info page unlike everyone else.
 
@Pawnguy7 They flag if you so much mention the word "penis".
 
It wasn't until like, 2010 SP1 that we got stdint
 
@Pawnguy7 Piss-boring. Honest.
 
I know for a fact gamedev.stackechange is the most boring room in the world.
 
@ThePhD stdint.h is a C99 header. MSVC has only C89 support.
 
6:20 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Penis penis penis penis penis.
 
@ShotgunNinja Yum yum.
 
For a room all about fun, they don't really have much of it.
 
@ThePhD Yeah, it kinda is.
 
@ShotgunNinja 屪屪屪屪屪
 
@ThePhD First rule of Game Development: Making games isn't fun.
2
 
6:21 PM
The gamedev room is boring due to lack of people, or otherwise? I imagine it would be an interesting place.
 
I'm having fun. :D
 
@MartinJames Not entirely true. The "Java Sucks" room is sometimes fun.
 
Yeah, I have fun there as well.
 
@ThePhD Wait until you get to the boring part.
 
Which is... ?
 
6:21 PM
@ThePhD Hmm, I wonder what conclusions we should draw.
 
I enjoy working on game-dev related issues, and I have a high tolerance for difficulty.
 
Making games, in my limited experience, is a mix of fun, boredom, frustration, and migraines.
2
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That I'm an awesome person full of wonderful surprises? :3c
Oh my god my new resource cache is so sexy!
 
@ThePhD Meh, it's probably full of shared_ptr.
 
@EtiennedeMartel unique_ptr only. <3
 
6:24 PM
I wish I felt better about my code more often...
 
@Pawnguy7 I wish I felt better about my code for one time.
 
@Pawnguy7 That's programming in general
 
@ThePhD Any chance of a pastebin or gist?
 
I did so before, but I'm afraid to do it again. :c
 
Gradually shifting from fun to all those other things
 
6:25 PM
Xeo told me there was stuff in there worthy of bashing, but he never told me what.
 
I don't know how people use such code. I feel it must be fixed before going on.
 
You either develop a sense of pragmatism or you don't work in the industry at all
 
@Pawnguy7 That's bad. You'll never move on.
 
@CatPlusPlus Only if you're a cynical defeatist based in Poland who once could be found somewhere near the town of Legnica.
(I think I'm too vague)
 
I love you too
 
6:27 PM
<3
 
Yes, I think it is both a good and a bad trait. Need to harness it more.
 
Xeo
Developing new games is fun. Maintaining old ones, not so much.
 
Maintaining anything is not fun ever
 
@CatPlusPlus I love to maintain my trusty T60.
 
@Xeo I'm fairly okay with maintaining well-written code... The problem is that very little code I've seen thus far has been even remotely close to well-written.
 
6:29 PM
 
So, I was inquiring into getting a 100/100 up/down mbit/s connection.
 
Tis' why you should strongly ensure the maintainer does not have your address, les they kill you in the night.
 
@DomagojPandža "Lots of money."
 
I got an offer for 80/80 for only $3500/month.
 
@DomagojPandža It is 51 SEK for me about $7 per month. I am the 1% =)
 
Ell
6:30 PM
xD
 
@DomagojPandža :3c
 
Equal upstream/downstream?
 
user142019
Oh cool Vim highlights CoffeeScript in <script type='text/coffeescript'> tags.
 
Fuck Croatia.
 
@Zoidberg Syntax regions are greetest.
 
Ell
6:31 PM
@DomagojPandža how much would it cost somewhere else?
 
OH
That's right
I wanted to do resource-saving.
 
Ell
I have tried looking for the uk before, but have never been able to find it o.O
 
I think I can do that with std::move now
 
Ell
google does fiber :O
 
6:32 PM
By that logic, Google should charge $35000/month.
 
If you post an image link in here, it is automatically adjusted to scale to the correct size, right?
 
Xeo
@ThePhD UB right here:
resourceindices.erase( index );
resources[ index->second ].reset( null );
 
user142019
@Pawnguy7 giant pictures are scaled down.
 
WOOPS
 
user142019
@Xeo lol
 
6:34 PM
Just has to reverse the lines >__>
IT WAS A SIMPLE MISTAKE ANYONE COULD DO IT ;~;
 
user142019
Spaces after [/( and before )/] should be UB.
 
Xeo
Also, you only ever clear the unique_ptr at a certain index, but never reuse it. Instead, you just pile the stuff onto the end.
 
@Ell Isn't it odd that businesses can operate on a factor of 500 in costs
 
Xeo
Third, why even an extra mapping from key to index?
Why not key to resource?
 
@DomagojPandža I really do pay $7 per month on my 100/100.
 
Xeo
6:35 PM
@CaptainGiraffe oO
 
@CaptainGiraffe That's hardcore. I wouldn't mind paying $100 a month. Even $200.
But fuck me, $3500 a month, what the fuck?
 
Um. I dunno. I think I wanted to keep it like that so I could iterate over all the items without hitting null buckets in the map.
 
Xeo
@ThePhD Why would you.. what. That doesn't make sense. You also have empty unique_ptrs in the vector.
Also, just completely erase them from the map, no need to just clear them
 
I was gonna fix that by having a free list...
 
Xeo
U+FUUU BAD DESIGN, PILE OF
6
 
6:36 PM
;~;
 
Who would like to see the visual of my pong thus far?
 
user142019
std::unordered_map<Key /* whatever you use */, std::unique_ptr<resource>>
 
Ell
yes
I never had the patience to write pong anything xD
 
@ThePhD so many errors...
 
Xeo
6:37 PM
You wanted bashing, you got it.
 
@Zoidberg I use an unordered_map + intrusive linked list design.
 
I made it, once, but it sucked inside, and was pretty barebones.
 
user142019
@Ell I once wrote Pong for iOS!
 
user142019
Using OpenGL ES!
 
std::unordered_map is a hashtable right? pardon my ignorance
 
6:38 PM
I am hoping I finish it this time, and it is beautiful outside AND inside.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Yes.
 
user142019
@CaptainGiraffe Yes.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Yes, at least normally it is.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Yes.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Hai.
 
Ell
6:38 PM
Oh wait a second I did write pong!
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, that is the best of both worlds, I think, if you want to allow iterators to elements to persist after stuff moves around.
 
@ThePhD Arigato
 
Ell
Then I wrote a little particle system and made kewl effects like trails behind the ball
and made 2 balls
 
@Ell what do you think of the visuals?
 
Ell
@Pawnguy7 Definately a good start :3
 
6:39 PM
@JerryCoffin Considering the complexity requirements, I wonder how they could do it without a hash map.
 
@Ell I plan to do both of those at a later time, and possible some sort of obstacles in the middle, say destructable blocks.
 
What does the std say about load factors and stuff? resizing? Is it all within O(1) ?
 
=[
Guess I need to edit everything then.
 
Xeo
@CaptainGiraffe Amortized, mostly
 
@Xeo for sure on insertion
 
6:40 PM
Actually, I guess I didn't make a particle system last time. I kept its last ten positions, and redrew those, but more transparent. Looked neat, but not specialized particles, it was messy code.
 
Xeo
Reminds me, for our Wii project, one guy created a sparkle system for the "You won the level" screen - on the last day before the goldmaster. And it made things look so much nicer.
 
Question. Is iterating through an unordered_map with a lot of things in it gaurunteed to be quick?
 
Ell
My system was uber simple - I basically wrote a "ParticleEmitter" class which created stuff then destroyed it once it's life was over
 
@Xeo Wii project?
 
Xeo
Wii project.
 
6:43 PM
As in, is there any overhead associated with iterating through a map vs. a vector?
 
@ThePhD Should be
 
@Xeo Tell more?
 
@Xeo Tell us mooore. <3
 
Xeo
@ThePhD You're basically traversing a linked list.
 
user142019
@ShotgunNinja Software that runs on the Wii.
 
6:43 PM
@Zoidberg No one asked you, lol
 
Xeo
Nothing much to talk about, a semester project on the Nintendo Wii. With the official Nintendo DevKits.
 
@ThePhD It should be a dual map of elements(iterators) to hashes
 
@Xeo Oh shite, what school?
 
@Xeo I wanna learn where you're learning.
 
Xeo
Aptly-named Games Academy. :P
 
6:44 PM
@Xeo The UK one?
 
=[
 
@EtiennedeMartel "The worst-case complexity for most operations is linear, but the average case is much faster." I believe on the worst case complexity is actually specified as a requirement, which makes them pretty easy to meet. Depending on how you measure your average, a splay tree might be a decent possibility for coming close to what's desired though.
 
Xeo
@ShotgunNinja Germany
 
Does anybody know of any possible way that one could make an android app, completely free (besides time)?
 
@Xeo Oh, okay. I'll have to check it out someday.
 
6:45 PM
This in reference to being able to host things on the, for lack of a better word, market.
 
There are game development universities now? Hahahaha. xD
 
user142019
The game academy in Breda, The Netherlands has the PlayStation 3 SDK.
 
@Pawnguy7 Er, just make it free?
 
Woo~
 
@JerryCoffin I for one, I guess you too are keen to look at the actual implementations of this.
 
6:46 PM
Switched to a 1920 x 1080 screen
 
Xeo
@Zoidberg They likely have that by now aswell.
 
@DomagojPandža Washington State has DigiPen University, funded by Nintendo and SCEA.
 
not onyl can I see the room users and room info, I can see all of the starboard too.
God, I missed you, 1920 x 1080 <3333
 
Xeo
When I was there, we had Xbox360, PS2, PSP, NDS, Wii, GameCube, I think even old Xbox
 
Also, Carnegie Mellon University and Full Sail University both have large internal divisions focusing on game and simulation development.
 
6:46 PM
Digipen is where concepts for Portal were made
Narbacular Drop and Tag
 
@CaptainGiraffe Do you suppose you could try that again, but in English this time?
 
@CatPlusPlus I have a friend who is going there for a degree in Digital Art & Animation.
 
@CatPlusPlus If you make a free app, does.. I beleive it is google play, allow you to "host" it for free? I had thought that it, like the App store for Idevices, needed a... membership fee.
 
hi
 
I don't think Google has any fees for free apps
 
6:47 PM
@Rapptz Ohaiyo gozaimasu!
 
But then again I don't care about mobiles enough to know this sort of stuff
 
@ThePhD weeb
 
@CatPlusPlus $5 fee to be a developer for google play
 
Xeo
@ThePhD *Ohayou
 
Oh no 5$
 
6:48 PM
@ThePhD It's 2:48 PM
 
Aww. :c
 
I have a tool development license for the Playstation 3, although it's not cheap. And also, I have no right to deploy on the platform. Just develop tools for it. Not that I'd want to. It's expensive to get the full license and to get something worthwhile on it.
 
Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
I suck at this.
 
@DomagojPandža Ahahah seriously
 
6:48 PM
$5 regardless of whether or not your app is free?
 
I get to leave work early to take my girlfriend to her surgery appointment.
 
@CatPlusPlus Some countries are forbidden to pay the $5 USD because Google doesn't allow them to
 
user142019
Android SDK should have been in Haskell.
 
@Pawnguy7 One of my friends has a couple of ad-supported games on Google Play. I have no idea how it works though.
 
@CatPlusPlus ...but they'll waive that if you show you can't afford it (you can apply for that for only $10).
 
user142019
6:49 PM
Then it would have been worth it.
 
But it's still not early enough T~T
 
@Rapptz I forgot the expression for good afternoon. D:
 
5$ is like 10 minutes of work
It's just a firewall
 
@ThePhD こんにちわ
 
Not a serious licensing fee
 
6:49 PM
Against spam?
 
Xeo
@ThePhD Just "good day"
 
@Pawnguy7 That would be my guess, anyway.
 
@Xeo Oh.
 
@Rapptz It ends in 'ha', not 'wa'.
 
Xeo
Well, at my place, it would be "konban wa" already.
@ShotgunNinja It's spoken as "wa", though
 
user142019
6:50 PM
If you pick up all coins you find on the street you have more than $5 in a year.
 
@ShotgunNinja lol'd
 
@Xeo yes, but it's written as "ha", so he still spelled it wrong.
 
Xeo
Aye
 
@JerryCoffin My humble apologies. I would like to look at the actual code, say the g++ implementation, and the msvc one. Just to find out how they meet the requirements.
 
Comma Fucker.
:c
 
6:51 PM
Ok. Anyway, let's say I want to make, say, pong/laser hockey for a tablet with Android. Perhaps I just want to do it for the learning and "give" it to a friend. Free still not an option? Sigh.
 
A colloquialism is a word, phrase, or paralanguage that is employed in conversational or informal language but not in formal speech or formal writing. Dictionaries often display colloquial words and phrases with the abbreviation colloq. as an identifier. Colloquialisms are sometimes referred to collectively as "colloquial language". A colloquial name is a word or term used for identification that is employed in conversational or informal language but not in formal speech or formal writing. Examples Colloquialisms include words (such as gonna and wanna), phrases (such as ', ', and ') a...
 
@ThePhD Didn't I say that I just read this on Cracked?
 
@Pawnguy7 You don't have to upload shit to Google Play for people to use it
 
user142019
@Pawnguy7 IIRC Android allows you to install apps from everywhere, not just Google Play.
 
Xeo
@ThePhD Want me to go over that resource cache again?
 
6:51 PM
@ShotgunNinja jisho.org/…
 
@CatPlusPlus develop.scee.net/middleware A couple of thousand dollars, but no right to deploy.
 
@Xeo I'vveeeee fixed the other problems.
 
Even Holy Apple supports ad-hoc deployments
 
@Pawnguy7 $5 to put it on the market I think. You can make apps and others can download them off the net for free, no problem.
 
Oh. I don't have a mobile device, so I am pretty bad at such things.
 
6:52 PM
Just trying tot hink if I want to in incur the overhead of a linked-list-type-dealie for all the resources.
 
@Rapptz Oh, fine.
 
Or if I should just embed the reosurces in teh map.]
 
The $5 fee is a one-time fee.
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus you need to pay a fee for that.
 
@CaptainGiraffe I'd be very surprised if there was an actual implementation using anything but a hash table. It's pretty clearly intended to be a hash table using chaining for collision handling.
 
6:52 PM
So I could, say, host a webserver ofr a minute of my computer, and let them download an app from it?
 
Ell
a) Support all windows features only
b) Support features supported by both linux & windows
c) Support all windows features & linux features
Opinions? :3
 
And you have to supply company information, how much of a not-failure you are, etc.
 
@ThePhD hashmap?
 
@CatPlusPlus I heard otherwise, did that change?
 
@Zoidberg You need to pay a lot of fees for that
Like the fee of buying a fucking Mac
@DomagojPandža Jesus
 
6:53 PM
@ShotgunNinja unordered_map if we're going to be pedantic. :c
@DomagojPandža I tried to do this for teh VITA by itself.
The cost was several thousand dollars.
 
@ThePhD yeah. Do that.
Screw the linked-list-type-dealie.
 
@Ell make your program how you want it, and disable features that don't work on the current OS.
 
Needless tos ay I did not pay the money
 
@ThePhD But did you show how much of a failure you aren't?!
 
Xeo
@ThePhD No use, the unordered_map itself is a linked list inside.
I wasn't referring to the pointers.
 
6:53 PM
@JerryCoffin The issue I'm looking for is the resizing part. Thanks for being civil this time.
 
@Xeo blarg
 
@ThePhD taped a new screen to your laptop?
 
@ThePhD I think it's mostly to keep beginners out. If you can pay that sum, that means you've got way more to spend on game development.
 
@DomagojPandža A good thing, I guess?
I dunno. It means only companies or children with parents who don't give a fuck could develop that shit.
 
@DomagojPandža To be fair, even just $100 would be enough to keep most people out.
 
6:54 PM
Anyone know how much Wii's SDK costs?
 
Actually, you need to either be a company or a university to be even considered.
 
Isn't $100 for Apple's market?
 
user142019
Yes.
 
It was rumored to have gone below $10K, finally.
 
Consoles are bullshit and modding is cool
 
Xeo
6:55 PM
@ThePhD No clue, but you need to have a serious history of successful game development to get a license.
 
Yes, but Apple spewed shit about success stories and every dickwad wanted in.
 
Xeo
Last I heard, anyways
 
Yep.. When in reality most apps are failures
 
@Xeo Welp, guess I can't pitch my first idea to the Wii then.
 
And that's why the release page is an amatuer-shit list.
 
6:55 PM
@DomagojPandža from what I have seen from the app market, it can be pretty cutthrought, and hope of success on a first app is likely misplaced.
 
The Deep Sea will have to wait. ;~;
 
Good, Jesus fucking Christ the Wii is from 2006.
Let it die
 
user142019
@ThePhD softmod nub.
 
@CaptainGiraffe If you used almost anything but a hash-table, resizing would never happen, so no conforming program could detect anything about resizing. Thanks for using English this time.
 
True. I guess it is the Wii U now.
 
6:56 PM
@Rapptz When is say Wii I mean The lastest one.
 
You're horrible
 
Just like when I say "PlayStation" I'm not referring to PS1.
 
It doesn't work well here though
 
user142019
Wii U is a terrible name.
 
@Zoidberg Sound the alarm.
 
user142019
6:57 PM
Just call it Wii 2.
 
user142019
Stupid Nintendo.
 
Nintendo Revolution sounded cooler
I don't get why they never went with it
 
Or Mii 2
 
> SCE does not take any royalty or flat fee from Tool & Middleware provider's sales to PlayStation® developers.
This is fair of them, though.
 
Hey YouTube why do you mark videos I haven't ever seen as watched
 
6:57 PM
@Rapptz Owned by a magazine?
 
Xeo
@Rapptz Cool thing: The SDK is still called "Revolution SDK". :)
 
@JerryCoffin I apologize, but I don't understand "If you used almost anything but a hash-table, resizing would never happen," this is not my native language.
 
@Rapptz that actually DOES sound kind of cool.
 
Wasn't there a magazine called "Nintendo Revolution" ?
Or maybe that was Nintendo Power...
 
it was Nintendo Power
 
Xeo
6:58 PM
Btw, GameCube codename was "Dolphin".
 
I would've bought Dolphin.
 
yeah and Wii's codename was Nintendo Revolution which is probably why the SDK is named Revolution SDK
 
Xeo
@Rapptz I know
 
Well, you can't say the GameCube had a non descriptive name.
 
What was the Wii's code name?
 
Xeo
6:59 PM
That's why I said "still called"
 
It's a cube, and you play games on it.
 
is there a console with the codename "frickin sharks with frickin laser beams attached to their frickin heads" ?
 
@ThePhD $1700 (Also you must have a dedicated studio building)
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel I loved the gamecube. :<
 
@Xeo I love the few good games it had on it.
But the console itself? Meh.
 
Xeo
6:59 PM
I also liked the Mario Kart DoubleDash level that played on top of a giant gamecube.
 
Come to think of it, how can you like a game console?
 
The GameCube was durable, though.
 
A console is as good as the games that are on it.
 

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