« first day (843 days earlier)      last day (4107 days later) » 

11:00 AM
:) that was a nice self-depreciating tweet he twote
 
I'd rather have a higher layer library handle localization. to_string(100000.1) may just return "100000.1" for me. I don't find it useful to introduce localization at this level.
 
@sehe Ah, missed the tweet. I saw it on the mailing list.
@StackedCrooked What's "100000.1" useful for?
 
Dude.
 
No, I mean it. Unless you are doing text serialization for machines, it is a bit pointless.
to_string alone falls kinda short in terms of usefulness for that purpose.
 
I'd rather have dot everwhere that sometimes a dot and sometimes a comma.
If I want localization I would look at other libraries like Qt (perhaps).
 
11:07 AM
That's because the standard library's facilities are not great.
 
@StackedCrooked Do you ever work on .NET? That gets this relatively right (it's too easy to forget, though)
 
And you can ask that higher-level library to get you dots (any decent one will have the C locale or invariant locale or whatever the heck they call it)
 
The issue is, how easy is it to pass a different locale to your conversion function...
 
.NET is application-level. I would consider C++ with only std a systems-level tool. Which can be used at application level if frameworks like Qt are used.
 
Xeo
Question: Who here knows how to write makefiles? :)
 
11:11 AM
@Xeo I do
 
why is this such an issue? doesn't C++ mandate the decimal place be signified with a period, and as such a period should be sued as the default to_string; equally you have to use comma for the separator with larger values. From this fixed common base line, if you wish to 'translate' to a different localisation, you know you are doing it from from a fixed standard format
 
@StackedCrooked cough. the boost debate all over again, but with much less merit. Anyone spell "intrusive frameworks"?
 
I don't know about the boost debate.
 
Isn't this ultimately the problem, lack of fixed common format that can be sued as a reference point for all localisations to be translated to and from.
 
@thecoshman US :)
 
11:14 AM
I honestly wouldn't care if the standard dictated that a 'to string' must say "DECIMAL POINT" for the decimal point, as long as it is clearly defined and I can very easily convert to and from it, and so can any one else, and thus with an intermediate step any two localisations can be conveted
@StackedCrooked what do you mean?
 
Xeo
@sehe Can I simply use %.o: %.cpp as a rule? I get "no rule to make target '%.o' needed by 'bin_name'" :|
 
i want to die. even php seems good compared to this.
 
US is pretty much a standard for programmers.
 
@NolwennLeGuen what you playing with?
 
Xeo
(with bin_name: %.o, even bin_name: *.o will look for a *.o file)
 
11:15 AM
B method
 
@StackedCrooked yeah, I can live with that
 
When we were kids our home computers and calculators used US notation shamelessly.
 
@NolwennLeGuen ...
 
@Xeo Every time I figure that out I forget it again.
 
@Xeo You shouldn't have to define it. It will use $(CC) $(CPPFLAGS) $(CFLAGS) $^ -o $@ or similar by default
 
Xeo
11:16 AM
@sehe Well, I want them in a seperate directory
even leaving the rule out won't work, though, it seems
 
@Xeo Alternatively, spell it out:
dir/%.o: %.cpp
     $(CC) $(CPPFLAGS) $(CXXFLAGS) $^ -o $@
 
Xeo
Yeah, that's what I did.
 
@Xeo not if you want it in magic dirs. See make -p for builtin rules
 
Xeo
Maybe the problem is actually with the bin_name rule
 
@Xeo bin_name: %.o is misguided. % is a placeholder and there is none in the target name
 
Xeo
11:18 AM
Hm.. and *.o?
 
IIRC bin_name: *.o should work but only if the object exists (it is a glob, after all)
 
Xeo
Hm... damn.
I don't want to manually list all .o files. :(
 
yaaaawn..... morning
 
Don't use make
 
The usual recipe:
SOURCES=a.cpp b.cpp c.cpp
OBJECTS=$(patsubst %.cpp,%.o,$(SOURCES))

bin_name: $(OBJECTS)
 
11:20 AM
sob
 
@NolwennLeGuen hi there!
missed ya.
 
Hi ;_;
 
Xeo
@sehe Still requires listing all the cpps. :/
 
@NolwennLeGuen what is all this fuss about?
 
@Xeo Damn. Y U NO PATIENCE, and Y U NO RTFM?
 
11:21 AM
1 min ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Don't use make
 
@Xeo See ^recipe. Also, SOURCES=$(wildcard *.cpp) should help
@CatPlusPlus Y U ASK FOR HELP then?
 
use msbuild.
 
Xeo
@sehe He doesn't
Did you mix up our avatars?
 
@CatPlusPlus Sorry. The case of the mistaken identities. Sorry
 
11:21 AM
they lool similar
 
@Xeo NO!? I mixed up the names.
 
look even. Fuxk movile
 
Xeo
lol
 
@NolwennLeGuen yeah, I was just thinking how so many of our avatars are grey scale :D
 
Y U TAKING AN INTEREST :)
 
11:22 AM
Already drunk on Thursday?
 
@NolwennLeGuen what's up with your keyboard?
 
@CatPlusPlus Thursday. A joke right?
 
@sehe I hope so
 
@BartekBanachewicz The bottom
 
Tuesday whatever
 
11:23 AM
lol who's drunk :P
 
yeah i think i should get drunk
 
I only care about Saturday and Sunday, the ordering of the rest is irrelevant
 
@CatPlusPlus I mix up a name, and that's baad. You mix up the concept of time, and "whatever"?
 
if i'm lucky enough i could slip into coma and never see prolog again
 
you make it sound sexy.
slipping into a coma
 
11:24 AM
I think I should sober up
 
There's a first time for everything
 
@sehe don't, you'll awaken that photo
 
I'm just sad that I'm not drunk
 
I'm just drunk. That's not sad.
 
i'm sand AND not drynk
 
11:25 AM
@CatPlusPlus easy to solve
 
Fuck this keyvoard
 
@NolwennLeGuen ... seems I have possessed it
 
Why are you sand
 
Do you not have a backspacr ket?
 
would a sand person worry about getting sand in the arse crack?
 
11:27 AM
I do but too lazy to check before i post
 
morning lounge
hey cat
 
Did i say sand
Gonna fucking eat
 
@NolwennLeGuen nope
 
Turn the predictive text back on, or get a Note or something with a bigger screen!
 
Or stop being a scrub
 
11:30 AM
Great. I refound this information as I'm now self a victim of WinXP... :) SO is also a public notebook like that! — sehe 10 secs ago
 
Xeo
@sehe: Thanks a lot, figured out how I needed to write the makefile. :)
 
Cheers. (You can upboat one of my answers lol)
 
@Xeo Why are you doing this to yourself
 
Damn you Polish people! why did you have come up with a notation for maths and then let it get reversed!
 
Because he needs to get done
 
11:34 AM
@CatPlusPlus because make is on every ix with gcc isntalled
 
@thecoshman No. That "common format that can be translated for all localisations" is a terrible idea. Why dilute the original perfect information (in the form of an int or a double)? It's also more than the period. That's just the simplest example that most people are actually familiar with.
 
OH GOD DEPENDENCIES HOW ARE WE GONNA LIVE WITH THEM
Stop being bad
 
@CatPlusPlus sometimes you can't install anything on a build machine
 
Bullshit
 
11:35 AM
~uni~
 
tar axf scrub
You don't have to install anything system-wide EVER
 
that makes sense
I will drag the build system with me just to not use make
 
OH GOD DEPENDENCIES
 
11:36 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
 
dependencies suck
 
Xeo
I have to say, I'm coming to like vim.
2
 
and if you have a lot of them, you suck too
 
Ahahahaha
You're terrible
 
you're even worse
 
11:37 AM
I'm better at you at programming at least
~
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but why is it so bad? is not the idea of localisation that they are all showing the same data, just in differing formats?
 
who's judging that apart from your ego?
 
@thecoshman It's also not about actual translations: you are not going to pre-translate all the possible future results of your program, are you?
 
Dependencies are good
 
when they make you work less, not more
I've seen programs with tonnage of stuff just for a tiny little function
 
11:38 AM
@Xeo hehe, you are the second Lounge convert this year, it seems.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes of course not, but my program would ideally be able to convert all values it could generate into all supported localisations
 
thus, if it's 3-file program, I see no reason not to use make
 
OH GOD TONS OF STUFF
 
@thecoshman Yes, and the fixed common format for that is called int or double or whatnot.
 
11:39 AM
I guess I will never understand it
 
I prefer toilet duck to vim.
 
well, I dunno what's so hard to understand
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh I see what you are saying
yes, quite right
 
Willingly using inferior, annoying and plain broken tools~
 
I had to compile open source program recently, called Dream
 
Xeo
11:40 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, having my Linux VM set up at work, I just thought I'd try getting things done in vim to see how it's like.
 
It's pointless to make a string in some format first, and them magic that string into the intended format.
 
it has 7 additional libs required. I had to download and compile all of them by hand
 
Especially since that may imply parsing that string back into an integer. (hint: not all numbering systems use base10; yes, humans are that much culturally diverse)
 
Xeo
There are some things where I'm still faster with a mouse, though, like selecting stuff, but that's probably because I don't know the commands.
 
Each of this used pretty much something different to build
So I spent pretty much 4 hours building this shit.
with actual building time around 5 minutes.
 
Xeo
11:41 AM
Although I can select and copy/paste in vim just fine with ctrl-shift-c/v
 
Use a package manager
 
@BartekBanachewicz "a code"?
Please, for the love of Knuth, 'code' is a mass noun. You don't write 'codes' and you don't need 'a code'. It's just code, okay?
 
is use of a period as the decimal marker mandated by the standard?
 
That's an issue with C++ ecosystem being utter shit
And C I guess
 
@thecoshman For the C locale, maybe.
(And for source code, duh)
 
11:42 AM
That's why I don't want to write anything in C++ or why I resort to completely self-contained builds when I absolutely have to
 
@CatPlusPlus that's cool. So your conclusion is, as always, everything sucks?
 
well that's what I mean, does C++ mandate that you right 56.9 and not 56,9 or any other form of separator?
 
yes
 
Yes, of course, as usual I said "everything" right jesus
 
the lexical specification is English numerical conventions, just like English keywords and whatnot.
 
11:43 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, BCD encoding might count as that common format. Not entirely unheard of, really
 
Localising source code is a horrible idea
 
Localizing software is a horrible idea.
 
then does it not stand to reason that lexical conversion are done, by default, with US English
 
Localizing anything...?
 
Who cares that Turks and Greeks can't use a PC? They can go play jeu-de-boule (oh wait)
 
11:44 AM
Just look at VBA in MS products
 
@thecoshman No, it does not. What source code looks like is irrelevant.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, but if you want to output a value in a textual format
 
@thecoshman What the source code looks like is irrelevant (question: why doesn't std::cout << 1.f output "1.f"?)
 
Xeo
> Press d (as in "delete") to cut, or y (as in "yank", which I imagine meaning "yank so hard and fast that it leaves a copy behind") to copy.
lol
 
@CatPlusPlus VBA isn't localized, right? Excel worksheet functions are
 
11:46 AM
If you are going to build an argument from the aspect of source code, I'll just ignore anything you say.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, to a point it doesn't no, but I take your meaning
 
I think it is in Access but maybe not vOv
It's a bad idea anyway
 
Basically, numbers are numbers. Localisation is about representations.
 
@Xeo I imagine it meaning "yank" as in "pirate" something
 
though I think I have lost what exactly it was you where discussing in the first place :S
 
11:47 AM
Here
 
Here?
 
hi
guys
 
Good afternoon
@R.MartinhoFernandes Calm big boy. I have the same gut reaction. But no reason to repeat the history like once the pirate did
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, and I think what I was trying to say, was if there is standard localisation in C++, shouldn't it be to US English. I don't really see the need for C++ it self to directly support localising. It can be left to libraries dedicated to it... no?
 
11:49 AM
r.martinho do you even code?
 
¬_¬ bin and plonk
oh wait...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I take it back.
 
perhaps flag-livion?
 
Jun 4 '12 at 13:26, by sehe
EVERYBODY: Commit chatticide and PRESS IGNORE simultaneously?
Probelmo solvo
> @Shog9 our troll is back and he isn't trying to better his life. At all. Can you "talk to him"?
 
plonk
 
11:50 AM
^ Flagged for moderator attention
 
enough flags = ban... right?
 
Sorry guys. But I still can't vote.
 
@BartekBanachewicz -_- something?
 
@thecoshman well that's too bad if you didn't get the joke
 
11:52 AM
@CatPlusPlus oooh, so that's where you ran off to
@BartekBanachewicz all I see is blurry leaflets
 
@CatPlusPlus we're back in 90s again?
 
bint
 
^ Everybody, can we try to take this bit of advice from @Shog9 to heart this time around
 
It's funny because someone couldn't make a good picture of something standing still
 
oooh, ok. the slightly zoomed in image helps
 
11:52 AM
@thecoshman there's "Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder"
 
10 hours ago, by Shog9
@sehe Well, if y'all flag-delete one message, he's gone for a half hour. Two and it's an hour. So on and so forth. So, y'know, don't need to burn all your flags on one guy, unless you really want him gone for ages
 
@DeadMG wait, what?
 
Xeo
Robot. Halp.
 
Oh, it was animated.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes gifs of the animated persuasion
 
11:53 AM
@CatPlusPlus maybe his hands were shaky from the OCD
 
Xeo
How can I copy to clipboard if vim has -clipboard in --version? :|
 
I have gif animation off on the chat window.
 
Q: Should we bin animated discussions?
 
Get a vim with +clipboard?
 
^ That
 
11:53 AM
A: No
 
@Xeo Erm. Yeah, pretty much what the cat said...
 
Xeo
Damn
 
WTF kind of broken distro is that?
 
@CatPlusPlus use xclip: :w !xclip and profit /cc @Xeo
 
Xeo
CentOS
:|
 
11:54 AM
Compiling vim isn't very hard
 
5
A: Is there a way to apply a sed transformation to a vim buffer before copying it to the clipboard?

seheI suggest using a CLI utility to put it on the clipboard: there are several I found previously, but here's one: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/565 So you'd do :%!sed 's:^:\t:g`|xclip or :%!sed 's:^:\t:g`|xclip -selection c the latter uses the X clipboard instead of the pr...

@Xeo ^ related
 
It even works OOB on Windows
 
not normally an angry person, but this fucking laptop is going to fucking fly through the fucking wall in a second
and don't give me no fucking wall jokes
 
I'd give you a GIF from a certain movie but I'm at work and it's NSFW
 
Oh, fucking wall jokes, hahaha
 
11:55 AM
@Xeo Then xclip should work. But recompiling is the way to go. In fact, it's probably a matter of rpm -i vim-gnome instead of rpm -i vim-nox
 
@thecoshman Poor machine. What did it do to you?
 
Well, you've given it fair warning..
 
damn
boost::lockfree, why do you suck?
 
Xeo
@sehe xclip: command not found and the repo also doesn't have it... sigh
 
@CatPlusPlus disable images in browser, find gif, copy link, paste, done
 
11:56 AM
Why are you using CentOS anyway
@sehe I'd have to find it first y'know
 
@Xeo There's are competitors. Just google cli clipboard pipe
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus That's what out buildmachines use.
 
Why are you using vim on build machine
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes fail
 
@DeadMG wazzup?
 
11:57 AM
@CatPlusPlus To edit build scripts/configuration/passwd files
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus I'm not.
 
> T must have a trivial assignment operator
 
Then why are you using CentOS
 
> T must have a trivial destructor
 
Xeo
I just have the same OS
 
11:57 AM
IOW, the structure is useless.
 
But whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
 
@DeadMG trivial. not useless
 
Is this gvim?
 
Xeo
So that I can make sure stuff works on the buildmachines?
@R.MartinhoFernandes no
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Unlikely
 
11:57 AM
Erm, install gvim?
 
2 mins ago, by sehe
@Xeo Then xclip should work. But recompiling is the way to go. In fact, it's probably a matter of rpm -i vim-gnome instead of rpm -i vim-nox
 
@Xeo You don't need to use a crappy distro for that you know
Also CI exists for a reason
 
@DeadMG I am not sure how you can make lockfree structures that also run arbitrary code as part of their operation.
 

« first day (843 days earlier)      last day (4107 days later) »