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1:00 AM
Userinator
 
@DeadMG Oh man, you're so single-minded.
 
rofl
my life for science!
 
Ha ha ha
 
@matt..not doing it by choice, it's a homework assignment..I have a calculator for adding/subtracting fractions...So I don't HAVE to do it on paper — user1443074 15 mins ago
this can't be real...
 
Anyone use visual studio and subsequently know about making custom wizards? I'm trying to setup a project template that starts my project in the Debug|x64 configuration
 
1:02 AM
@MatteoItalia Yeah, I saw that too. I just facepalmed and ignored the episode.
I've just never HAD to learn it so why should I have to? I'm not stupid or anything, I've gotten through all preCal and Calculus with 95-99 averages — user1443074 10 mins ago
What is preCal?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes The Facepalminator.
 
Pre-calculus
 
I suppose it's "pre-calculus"
How can you do calculus if you can't sum fractions?
 
The Magicinator.
 
1:05 AM
And by the way the "I have a calculator to do it - I don't need to know how it works" is one of the saddest things I heard
 
Ok, you're pushing it.
 
DAMN, THIS IS SO MUCH FUN.
 
Don't say Pushinator.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Too late, you said it.
 
1:05 AM
@Ell u still there
 
Ell
@jamesdyson yeah
 
@DeadMG really?
 
@MatteoItalia Because it's so true :)
@JamesDyson le win
 
@Ell you still interested?
 
@DeadMG: it's fun^H^H^H sad because it's true!
 
1:06 AM
@DeadMG Not if you're trying to replicate the calculator's functionality.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Which is such a rare event, I'm fine lazy loading that knowledge.
 
Ell
Yeah - sort of. It's a massive task to undergo I think. I'm on my phone btw which means I will take a whilr to reply
 
@DeadMG Oh, he sure lazy loaded it. Basically, there's now a "how to add fractions" question on SO.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Heh heh. Too true.
 
Counts as off-topic in my book, btw.
 
1:08 AM
@ell no problemo
 
And -1 for zero research.
 
I actually realized that I have no idea how to multiply fractions
 
I'm pretty sure wikipedia shows how do to do it very clearly.
 
@ell many hands make light work
 
that knowledge has been garbage collected
 
Ell
1:09 AM
@jamesdyson have you started yet?
 
@DeadMG But I'm sure you wouldn't have trouble figuring it out.
 
yeah
one Wikipedia lookup -> "Oh yeah, that's how it's done."
 
Jeez, if you just did a calculus course for a reason or another you surely had to add two fractions!
 
This guy's comments seem to indicate that he's a twat. -1 for being a twat.
 
Ell
But it would be good if people instead went one so lookup -> "oh yesh that's hos its dobe"
Autocorrscr fsol
 
1:10 AM
@Ell not really. Mostly researching and trying to find people
 
Ooops.
@Ell Are you drunk-typing?
 
@MatteoItalia Hardly anybody does a calculus course for a reason. They do it because some dick thought he was so good, he would force other people to do it and waste other people's money paying for it.
 
Ell
I'm just tired typing :L with pudgy fingers on a small keybosrd
 
@R no it vs thk mobtie
 
@DeadMG: he says he did a calculus course; I don't mind the reason why he did it.
 
1:12 AM
@MatteoItalia I do.
 
(and don't let me start on the beauty of calculus :) )
 
Calculus is far from worthless.
 
@Ell imastershadow@gmail.com pop me an email
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It should really be lazy loaded, though.
 
Ell
Righty oh. Will do, tomorrow in the mornign
 
1:13 AM
Lazy Loadinator
 
@DeadMG The human abacus part, I can agree. But there's actual stuff to be learned there, not just being an abacus.
 
oh, I know
there's also stuff to be learned in matrices, let's go teach that to every 17-year-old?
 
It may not be important for certain fields, but that's a whole other story.
 
Ell
Anyway I'm gonna get off here now, ill see you guys tonorrow
 
or genetic sequencing, or string theory, or boolean algebra
 
1:15 AM
@Ell seya.
 
learning something you don't know you need is equivalent to premature optimization
 
And there you have it: the reason why programmers suck at math...
 
@DeadMG Yes, but now you're arguing against the system, not Calculus as a subject.
 
I like cheese
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Of course. I have nothing specific against calculus.
@Mysticial I actually don't.
 
1:16 AM
@DeadMG Actually, learning is fun (dopamine is released in your brain when you learn new things).
 
During my undergrad, CS was the only major that didn't require an advanced math course.
 
maths was the easiest, and highest, grades I ever got
 
@DeadMG: that's plain stupid, if you're never exposed to different subject you can't know if there's other stuff that may interest you, and when you have to solve problems slightly out of your field you are fucked
 
I was an EE major as well, so I went ahead and did them anyway. Good stuff - all of it.
 
@MatteoItalia That's not true at all. When you get a problem slightly out of your field, then you just expand your field. Problem solved.
if you make people memorize everything you think they might need, then they will never learn to learn on their own.
 
1:18 AM
Well I haven't even finished high school yet. Beat that hahah
 
@DeadMG: that's why in high school you are given a basic knowledge of every subject - to know that they exist and which tools they can provide you
 
@DeadMG Leading to questions just like the one we witnessed.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Oh, yeah. I'm not saying people shouldn't learn shit cause it's fun- hell, I do that all the time. I'm talking about making people do it for productivity.
 
I hate hs
 
@MatteoItalia Calculus is a high-school subject? Woah.
 
1:18 AM
@MatteoItalia No, you are forced to waste your time on every subject. And it's far from every subject.
 
looking for something is more difficult if you don't even know it exists
 
The first time I had a course named "Calculus" was in university.
 
for example, why should schools teach calculus rather than matrices?
 
@DeadMG you feel MY PAIN
 
or quaternions?
 
1:19 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes: in Italy there's an introduction to calculus in most high schools
 
@DeadMG Linear algebra? My university teaches both.
 
the only mathematics you get are the mathematics the school decided to ejaculate on your face.
 
@DeadMG: there is stuff that have more or less impact
 
and how about other subjects your school doesn't offer?
 
@DeadMG Well, you can't force people to learn.
 
1:20 AM
my school never offered to let me sample CS, or QM.
 
matrices and calculus are both everywhere in engineering, physics & co.
 
Yep
 
I would have loved to have done quantum mechanics, but no, it's too advanced and the other kids wouldn't be able to do it.
@MatteoItalia Right. Therefore every child should do it? No.
 
@DeadMG: then you should just teach each child his job. Nothing more, nothing less, growing a nation of braindead people who don't know anything besides their very own field
 
@MatteoItalia That's what people do anyway. They specialize.
 
1:21 AM
Sounds like Professor, by Asimov.
 
Quantum mechanics is used far less than linear algebra or calculus
@RMartinhoFernandes that's exactly what I was thinking about :)
 
people have talents in some areas, and less in others
there's no point asking me to paint, or Picasso to solve differential equations.
 
@DeadMG: you expose people to different subject, they see what they like and what exists; then they specialize
 
@DeadMG How old are you? If don't mind my asking you can give a range
 
@MatteoItalia What happens in school is not an exposure.
it's a mind rape.
 
1:22 AM
some basic subjects are needed for a lot of specializations, so it's far easier to give them to everyone
 
@DeadMG Reminds me of a quote by Einstein.
> Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
 
Fish are stupid.
 
@JamesDyson 21.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Not as much as Robots.
 
1:23 AM
lol
 
I'm The Snappinator.
 
@DeadMG im 5 years off
 
@JamesDyson Well, let me tell you something.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes: talking about Asimov, our friend and his fractions reminded me also of themathlab.com/writings/short%20stories/feeling.htm
 
when I was 16, my parents and teachers told me that high school was just a phase
that when I turned 18 it would all be over and my life could start
but they were fucking lying
university is just more of the same bullshit
 
1:24 AM
@DeadMG I hate Hs
 
it's even worse than school
 
You should get drunk more often.
 
You learn shit you never use
 
ARrghgf. I can't find a link to a page I've visited before! This is not possible.
 
1:25 AM
@EtiennedeMartel Because that'll solve my problems of my lecturers defining knowledge as "memorize instruction set".
 
Google is conspiring against me.
 
@JamesDyson Absolutely.
 
@DeadMG You would stop caring.
 
@DeadMG That wont solve any of your problems. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.
 
you waste all your time on shit you don't want or need.
 
1:26 AM
Yep, All your bloody time
 
@EtiennedeMartel If it doesn't solve any of my problems, then the only reason I'd do it is because it's fun. But getting drunk is not fun, and it introduces a new problem- all the money I spent on the alcohol.
@RMartinhoFernandes Nope.
 
And on the shit you hate you get marked down and consequently lose job doors
 
@DeadMG Oh, you would. For a few hours at least.
 
@DeadMG It's fun... if you get drunk with people you trust. (Trust is key here)
 
I see quite a bit of frustration here...
 
1:27 AM
@JamesDyson And the pointless examinations. They teach you statistics, and about sampling, then they ask you to do a statistically irrelevant sample as a measure of your knowledge.
@RMartinhoFernandes Nope. Tried that when I was younger.
 
You didn't try hard enough :P
 
no
my life sucks but adding alcohol will only make it worse
like eating too many cookies
 
@DeadMG You dont learn half of what youll ever use. The subjects close to what you is maths and physics
use*
 
@JamesDyson And even then, they won't teach you the interesting stuff.
 
Try eating too many cookies and alchool
 
1:28 AM
physics is getting crappy though
 
boring classical momentum instead of the cool quantum mechanics.
@MatteoItalia Nah, that would just put me in the hospital.
 
@DeadMG Oh yeah, like QM is easy to understand without classic physics?
 
Its not numbers now its "describing the world in words"
 
@Mysticial I didn't really find much in QM that bears much resemblance to classical physics.
 
Well, the whole commutator thing
it's Poisson's brackets on steroids
 
1:30 AM
not that I actually know that much about QM, since, of course, it's impossible for me to study it.
 
the whole hamiltonian formalism is born in classical mechanics
 
@DeadMG OMG I WAS SO PISSED OFF THEY USE BLOODY (sorry for the caps) not the electron flow but the conventional current!!!!
 
@JamesDyson Yeah, we did conventional current too.
 
Wrong Wrong WRONG!
 
1:31 AM
@JamesDyson yeah, that pissed me off quite a bit in both HS and college.
 
@DeadMG Why teach something that is bloody wrong????!!!
 
the problem with QM is that solving anything but an harmonic oscilator is a bloody hell
 
@JamesDyson First, there is no wrong.
 
QM itself is "wrong"
 
Second, conventional current is a pretty good model for many uses.
 
1:32 AM
@MatteoItalia Well, that's plain bullshit.
 
I got around it by simply defining current to be the opposite direction of the electrons.
 
transistors were designed and built based on quantum theories
not to mention the many other devices we possess today whose mechanics were devised and implemented according to QM
 
@DeadMG and trains work perfectly well with classical mechanics
 
@MatteoItalia Well thats a theory just like string theory but explains alot more than classic pyhsics
 
@MatteoItalia I would be a little more careful before you start dissing on QM or any other major field.
 
1:33 AM
if QM was wrong, our society would simply not exist as it does today.
 
@DeadMG Yep
 
you all are completely misunderstanding what I'm saying
the whole point of physics is to choose the right level of approximation for the job
 
you need to model stuff that is way bigger than the plank length and moves way slower than the light? classic mechanics is the best tool for the job
 
@DeadMG The only thing that I don't like about QM is the randomization (not that is wrong) but does'nt seem right
 
1:35 AM
@MatteoItalia Pity that most technological inventions for the last 40 years have been about stuff at the quantum level then, isn't it?
@JamesDyson Many scientists had a big problem accepting the fact that, for example, the speed of light is really the speed of information, and laws like the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
but eventually they had to accept it as the truth, because the experiments showed it to be true.
 
@DeadMG Mostly because we aren't able to tackle the other end of the spectrum - astrophysics...
 
@DeadMG That doesn't make classic mechanics any less useful. You still build trains, and you still build buildings, and many other things where QM is worthless.
 
Yes, I'm sure that the house you are living in is engineered accounting QM
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh, very true. All I'm saying is that QM is most definitely not "wrong", at all.
 
@DeadMG To fix this statement I imagine a extra dimension acting on ours
 
1:36 AM
@MatteoItalia But my computer was.
 
@DeadMG Sure, but what Matteo was saying was that QM wasn't right.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Which is bullshit. It is perfectly correct.
the fact that you may prefer a different tool when working at a different scope is irrelevant.
 
Well guys if quantum computing works we will have pocket computers as fast as our supercomputers today
 
Try to push QM to work with objects that travel to the speed of light, and you'll see how fine it works
 
@DeadMG That's what he was saying.
 
1:37 AM
@JamesDyson That's not entirely true.
@RMartinhoFernandes The two statements are not at all related. "Is wrong" != "Is unsuitable for some purpose X".
 
@DeadMG Well yeah, but close
 
@MatteoItalia And without QM, your processor wouldn't be running any faster than about 50 MHz.
 
@JamesDyson I don't think so.
 
Yes, he chose the wrong words. He clarified later.
 
what you have to realize is that quantum computers are exponentially faster only for some problems.
 
1:38 AM
@DeadMG Adding a extra state in a bit would change alot
 
if you have the wrong kind of problem, quantum computing can still help, but it won't be a huge amount.
 
The point is "Why teach something that is bloody wrong????!!!" Because lies can be more helpful than the truth.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Approximations and lies are two different things, really.
 
Argh, Y U TAKE EVERYTHING LITERALLY.
 
Say if I was calculating the universe I would need a computer the size of the universe but with quantum computing it would be smaller
 
1:40 AM
Whatever physic theory is an approximation
 
@JamesDyson No, it wouldn't.
 
@JamesDyson It's not about extra states. In the end, there are only two measurable states on a qubit.
 
Just like any "Thoery"
@DeadMG Im not making my own statements there. Thats what Ive read
 
@JamesDyson Then smack whoever you've read.
 
as good as it may be, science works by cyclically finding the current theory to be unsuitable for new facts
so everything has to be re-explained in the framework of a new theory
 
1:41 AM
the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, and other quantum randomness, quite clearly implies that it is impossible to calculate the universe given any computer.
 
which has to explain both the old and new phenomena
 
To prove a theory right you must try to prove it wrong
 
it is uncalculable, undecidable.
you may as well try to solve the Halting Problem with a quantum computer
 
@DeadMG Hmm
HAHA I love the way this room has changed topics so quickly
 
That's how we roll baby.
 
1:43 AM
bahaha
So whats FUD?
 
man, I love that idea, though
"The Universe is undecidable."
 
@DeadMG Noooooooo I hate that idea! bahahha
 
By the way, you cannot even start to tackle QM without calculus, so we're back to the start. :)
 
HS
(High School)
 
@MatteoItalia Not really. You can decide to learn QM, discover you need calculus, and learn it, and then learn QM. Easy.
 
1:45 AM
@DeadMG: Newton started to study planet motions, discovered he needed calculus and he invented it. Fuck yeah.
 
@DeadMG until you actually try it and realize... holy shit, there's so much I need to know before I can handle this - I give up...
 
@Mysticial: exactly
 
Which is a lot like some of the newbie questions we get here.
 
Well is anyone willing to help me in my idea for a game? Yes its far fetched but you dont go anywhere wishing
 
@Mysticial Not for anyone who really wants to learn QM.
 
1:46 AM
"Why won't my program run any faster with threads???"
And then you realize that they don't really know the language that well.
And they're trying to parallelize I/O which means they know nothing about basic computer things.
 
The "threads => faster" myth will go on for a long time, I suspect.
 
@JamesDyson The lounge already has a game team.
 
@DeadMG Explain
 
we already have a team working on a game
 
@DeadMG: it's like not installing libc6 on a Linux system, saying "they will install it later if it's needed"
 
1:47 AM
Kato or something?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm probably gonna try a basic threading performance FAQ some time in the future.
 
@MatteoItalia I don't do Linux. It sucks.
 
I forget
 
s/libc6/msvcrt.dll/
 
@DeadMG Well can the room not have another? Whats the game called?
 
1:48 AM
Just letting you know that I suppressed a terrible joke.
 
@MatteoItalia Well, most applications do ship with their version of the CRT.
 
@JamesDyson What he's trying to say is that most people here are already busy on another game.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Hmm ok
 
I've had people ask me how to write a program that computes millions of digits of Pi - and they don't even know a programming language...
 
LoL
 
1:49 AM
Whatevs, you got what I meant. I'll go to sleep
 
night
 
Seya
 
oh, btw, mysticial
remember I was asking you for help with SSE somethings?
 
@DeadMG yeah, go on.
 
1:51 AM
my complete fucking nubbery, I could have cached that matrix transpose and saved myself a giant pile of runtime.
instead I transposed it every single call
 
LOL
That's called "post-mature" optimization.
 
also, there's an SSE instruction which you can use to check if all members are 0, and you don't have to pull it into the FPU stack.
 
@DeadMG Which uni did you go to?
 
so I could probably have vastly improved my runtime for that function
 
@DeadMG You shouldn't be using the FPU stack at all. If you're using SSE, all floating-point will be in SSE.
 
1:52 AM
@Mysticial Remember I cast it into a float array to check if each float was 0?
 
The FPU should be completely idle. Though I have seen a few odd cases where the Intel compiler generated FPU and SSE code side-by-side.
 
but anyway
just thought I'd mention that
 
@DeadMG It's been a while since I've seen it. I remember there were bigger problems that probably pulled my attention away from that.
But yeah, it's good that it's a lot faster now I assume?
 
ITT: puppy realizes he wrote crap code.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That's not something you see every day.
 
1:54 AM
@DeadMG What are you talking about? These types of matrixs? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_%28mathematics%29
 
@JamesDyson No, very small matricies that fit into a couple SIMD vectors.
 
What's with the misspellings of matirces? Is this a meme?
 
@Mysticial Explain. I wish to learn
 
@JamesDyson That's a big topic... Do you know that SIMD is?
 
@Mysticial Dunno, haven't tried it.
 
1:56 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Dangerously close to "Martinho", don't you think?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Nah. Just partially optimized.
 
@Mysticial Nope. Explain :P
 
: Single instruction, multiple data (SIMD), is a class of parallel computers in Flynn's taxonomy. It describes computers with multiple processing elements that perform the same operation on multiple data simultaneously. Thus, such machines exploit data level parallelism. History The first use of SIMD instructions was in vector supercomputers of the early 1970s such as the CDC Star-100 and the Texas Instruments ASC, which could operate on a vector of data with a single instruction. Vector processing was especially popularized by Cray in the 1970s and 1980s. Vector-processing archite...
 
@Mysticial What makes operating on multiple data simultaneously special? is it faster? and why?
 
@JamesDyson You're doing more than one thing at once.
 

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