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12:00 AM
@MooingDuck and what kind of softwares do you develop?
 
And when you have over a hundred h/cpp files, having those header summaries is really nice. (we have 9397 headers in our code currently)
 
I g2g I'll be back
 
@DavidFrank telephone servers
99% of the time, you want to make changes to use other peoples headers, you don't want to change headers much.
 
@MooingDuck which c++ libraries are useful to know? i think of stl, boost etc. which of them are useful?
 
@DavidFrank You really should know the standard library, and at least be familiar with boost. Everything else varies with your company. Few still use MFC, most have moved to .Net.
 
12:07 AM
@MooingDuck Do you know any other programming languages besides c/c++ ?
 
@Mysticial Im now located at a laptop. Welll???
@Mysticial Bahaha
 
what are you responding to?
 
@DavidFrank I'm not fluent in others, but I can hobble through Pearl, Java, C#, PHP, MYSql, HTML, and I'm sure there's others I forgot to list. Basic.
 
@Mysticial My original question aimed at you
 
@JamesDyson Which was?
 
12:11 AM
I started with batch files lol.
@echo off
set /a count= 0
:loop
set /a count= %count% +1
echo annoying >> %count%.haha
goto loop
 
@MooingDuck You made a typo on a typo. It's "Perl".
 
@MooingDuck what is the reason you settled down at c++?
 
@Mysticial Did Java originate from household appliances? (more or less)
 
@JamesDyson I dunno. Why did you think I would know? :P
 
@DavidFrank I dunno, it suited the way I think. I can easily move between high-level and low-level code, and handle both in nice ways.
 
12:14 AM
@Mysticial xD cause your obviously more competent than me in programming bahaha
 
@MooingDuck Can you advice me a rule of thumb how you decide to use reference or pointer? In other languages there is only reference-type(which is like c++ pointer), and I never know in c++ which to use.
 
How to decide between references and pointers: use references.
 
@DavidFrank always use references where you can. If you can't use a reference, then use a pointer. Those are: when you need to reseat a reference, and when you need an optional reference.
 
My plan! You ruined it! I was expecting a reply like "but references can't do X, so I can't always use them", i.e., him to answer his own question.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes neener neener
 
12:19 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes hi rowboat
 
the heck? Why is my code constructing a std::string from NULL? Fail.
 
@DeadMG Hey, that's offensive.
 
or, you know, trying.
 
@Mysticial Well I still remain in my seat. I . Hate . Java
 
@MooingDuck thats my prob. I try to use reference then realize I have to reseat it or make it default null, then i have to rewrite my code and change it to a pointer.
 
12:22 AM
@JamesDyson As do we all
 
@JamesDyson Most of us do. I wouldn't say that I "hate" it. But I much prefer C++.
 
PHP is the worst language, and Java is the worst language ever designed.
 
hehe, good one.
 
@DeadMG what dont you like in php?
 
Oh boy, don't go there.
 
12:23 AM
@DeadMG Hey Hey Hey, watch where your stepping. I like PHP
 
@DeadMG javascript?
 
Don't piss off the puppy.
 
@JamesDyson Then think again.
 
@Mysticial BAHAHAH
 
shitty syntax? check
inconsistent function parameter ordering? check
 
12:24 AM
@DeadMG shitty inconsistent syntax.
 
@DavidFrank @JamesDyson Start by reading this: phpsadness.com
 
9999999 unnecessary implicit conversions? check
no Unicode support? check
 
@DeadMG do you like python?
 
@DavidFrank Never really used it.
 
@DavidFrank He doesn't like any language. He is sane.
 
12:25 AM
I like PHP yes it does have its downfalls but it remains useful
I liked python
 
@DeadMG php doesn't have unicode support? How the hell do they make webpages in other languages?
 
@JamesDyson No, it doesn't.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes No, he's insane.
 
@Mysticial Hacked-in extensions, mostly.
PHP is all downfall
 
@EtiennedeMartel Oh, right. I'm always confusing those two.
 
12:25 AM
@DeadMG ?
 
it has multibyte char support but its kinda crappy
 
So does C++. It's universally reviled for that.
 
oh
 
@DeadMG PHP is my baby when I make websites
 
and a whole shitbunch of completely unnecessary things, just so they can be unnecessarily dynamic, like, "Oh hey, ur var doesn't exist but oh well, no error!"
and eval.
 
12:26 AM
@DavidFrank T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM
 
@JamesDyson Well, throw it out and get a better baby.
 
PHP is a huge inconsistent mess without any kind of internal logic.
 
oh, and did I mention the "PLEASE INJECT ME" SQL libraries?
 
@DeadMG Like...?
 
@JamesDyson Even .NET is way better than PHP.
you could also try Django or RoR
plus, technically, you can use C++ to make scripts
 
12:28 AM
Java also works pretty well for the Web (although I'd prefer something like Scala or Clojure then).
 
eh
I've heard that all their server technologies are epic fail
 
@DeadMG Meh, bahaha ill try to have alook
 
@EtiennedeMartel If you're willing to pay the angle bracket tax :P
 
@EtiennedeMartel Eh yuck
 
@DeadMG You are a universal hater. What do you like?
 
12:29 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah. But the architecture is solid. Which is something you can't say about PHP.
 
@JamesDyson So basically you have no counterarguments, but won't change your mind anyway.
 
Ell
@jamesdyson are you from the outback?
 
I have a feeling many people dislike Java just because it is Java. (Not referring to anyone in particular)
 
@DavidFrank I kinda like C++, and Lua. Also the language I'm inventing :P
 
How does C++ have multibyte support?
 
12:30 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes No, for java I have my reasons @DeadMG And actually, I will have alook
 
@DavidFrank wchar_t
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I dislike the Java language. I have nothing against the platform.
 
@JamesDyson (Not referring to anyone in particular)
 
@DeadMG Lua's good from what Ive heard. Is it not like a lightweight python?
@RMartinhoFernandes Hahah
 
@RMartinhoFernandes what about strings? working with wchar_t[] could be a pain in the @$$
 
12:31 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Should there be another reason? Is Java not reason enough?
 
Ell
Lua is meant for embedding
 
@Ell In?
 
@DavidFrank Arrays of wchar_t?
 
@JamesDyson Nah. Well, actually, I've never really done much Python so I wouldn't know.
but it's kinda like JavaScript, without all the shit.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes working with wchar_t[] could be a pain in the @$$
 
12:32 AM
@DavidFrank Probably because only a moron would work with wchar_t[], instead of std::wstring.
 
@LucDanton "Java" refers to multiple things. It can be the language, the runtime, the class library, or the ecosystem around it.
 
Ell
@jamesdyson I don't know really :L its used a lot in the games industry
 
@DeadMG I moved from batch files to python and wondered where the goto function was (And then kicked myself)
 
goto is a shitty function that should be dropped asap from all languages that currently support it
 
@Ell That's interesting. Im interested in making a game. Im trying to get people to help me but :S
 
12:33 AM
Actually, wchar_t is not some multibyte thing. That's wide characters. The multibyte support is the mbtowc crap and shit.
 
@DeadMG I agree
 
Ell
What kind of game? maybe I will be interested?
 
Guys, it was nice to talk to you, byebye!
 
@JamesDyson from goto import goto, comefrom, label
 
comefrom, rofls
 
12:36 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes A hundred percent pure pain extract!
 
@Ell I hope you are. I liked the idea of minecraft. Then after rage quitting over the lag and the growing feeling of boredom I wished that there was a game that wasn't a blocky world and more realistic and involved the idea of building your environment and interacting with it. I have so many bloody ideas for it (most from the shower) that i will tell you more if your interest remains
 
Ell
So sort of like minecraft, but with less blockiness and more realism?
 
@JamesDyson Sounds like an incredibly complex kind of thing.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes he correspondence course I did (Bad idea) used mslogo as the language....grrr
 
whenever "realism" is part of a game pitch, you know it's a bad idea
 
Ell
12:38 AM
I'm making a game also :)
Well, attempting
 
@Ell And a hell of a lot more ideas and features
 
@DeadMG Depends. If you're making a simulation-type game, you want it to be realistic.
 
@DeadMG Works for Dwarf Fortress. Even though the realism is a bit... buggy.
 
@Ell The most complicated feature I would like it to have (Very complicated) is for the user to create his own pieces
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I doubt dorfs are commonly found in real life.
 
12:40 AM
@EtiennedeMartel I would like to keep the element of survival present
 
@EtiennedeMartel Nah, those are two different things.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Dammit, you fixed it in a way my reply is not appropriate.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That being said, 'verisimilitude' may be a smarter goal. Plus, you get to say 'verisimilitude'.
 
Ell
@jamesdyson so what would the world be constructed of? Arbitrary pieces or a terrain or?
 
people can have fun with simulations, but realism is virtually by definition the anti-fun
 
12:41 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm soooo fast.
 
@DeadMG In the right doses, it can be quite fun.
 
@Ell Terrain (like the real world)
 
But I think a co-operative survival horror type of game in an open world could be cool.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Simulations are quite fun. The fact that they are based on reality is orthogonal.
 
(I know "co-op" kinds of reduces the "horror", but hey, nothing's perfect).
 
12:42 AM
@EtiennedeMartel Kinda what it is. I want it to be multilayer.
 
@DeadMG Indeed, you could simulate a different reality.
 
and indeed
if you wantonly include elements just because they are realistic, you are quite guaranteed to ruin whatever you're making
 
I would find it interesting to watch from a gods point of view the "world" and the clans and tribes people would make
 
Yeah, if you want realism, it has to be at the core of your game.
 
you need to start by #define FUN something, and then you can make that something based on reality if you want, but going the other way around is bad.
 
12:43 AM
(It would be a world)
 
@DeadMG Right, that's why I said "the right doses".
 
@EtiennedeMartel Realism like battlefield 3 or skyrim bahahah
 
@JamesDyson None of those games are realistic.
 
If there were dragons in reality, they wouldn't fly backwards. Sorry, Skyrim is far from realistic.
 
When I say realism I mean mostly graphics wise
@RMartinhoFernandes Lols
 
12:44 AM
And I don't think I could drive a tank all by myself, or survive a sniper rifle round to the chest and just walk it off.
 
Ell
Haha Skyrim is so buggy
 
Hence I said Graphics guys
Not bloody blocks
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, sure, but the realism doesn't actually form a core of the game that's worth discussing. It's just a visual detail. And visual design is important, but not core.
 
@JamesDyson Meh, that's the less fun part.
 
But blocks are cool.
 
12:45 AM
Thats want added to the boring feature
 
And blocks is what allows the game to be in Java.
 
@EtiennedeMartel NO NO!!!!! It should NOT be in java
 
If I want to see realistic graphics, I can just look out the window. Or watch a documentary.
 
@JamesDyson I meant Minecraft.
@RMartinhoFernandes Or play Rage.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I know. I shouldnt of been made in Java
 
12:46 AM
(Even though you don't really "play" Rage, you just experience it).
 
No. What you do is say "Rage? Never heard of that. When is Borderlands 2 again?".
And then you play whatever in the meantime.
 
Thats the reason its laggy. I can play a FPS game that's got great graphics but a bloody block game has lag
 
@LucDanton Rage is still a quite impressive piece of technology.
 
Its made in java
I hate java
 
@JamesDyson I'm pretty sure Java is not the reason for that.
 
12:48 AM
Java just means it's going to eat 2 GB of RAM just for blocks.
 
Ell
@jamesdyson if this is private I understand but my friend is very interested in Australians and would like to know what part of Australia you are from
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes and no. Java complies itself more times than say a language like C++
 
"very interested in Australians", WTF?
@JamesDyson Oh, we're down to FUD then.
 
@Ell Hahah NSW central coast. But Im british
 
@Ell What in the sweet tits?
 
12:49 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes FUD? teach me!
 
@EtiennedeMartel Hopefully someone will get a hold of id tech whatever and make one game or two out of it.
 
Ell
@jamesdyson but your profile days Australian :L
 
@LucDanton You know, it's been id's problem for a while now. They make beautiful tech demos, but they fail at making good games.
 
@Ell I was born in NZ im British but I am living in Australia
 
That's what happen when you have John Carmack on your team but no good designer.
 
12:51 AM
Yes....Im exotic
 
How's the money in game design
 
Big I beleive
 
@user1477622 If you think about money first, you'll end up sad, I believe.
 
Believe*
 
Ell
@rm yeah she has a few obsessions. Australians is one of then
 
12:52 AM
@EtiennedeMartel You are correct
 
@EtiennedeMartel Eh.
 
I don't know about that.
 
@Ell She now? bahaha
 
John Carmack hasn't done something impressive since like, 1996.
 
If you don't think about money, you'll be poor and struggle for a life.
 
12:53 AM
Whos john Carmack? :P
 
@DeadMG Oh, yes, he's probably the best 3D programmer in the world.
 
who has made absolutely no decent games since, say, 1996
 
@user1477622 But If you think about money, it will never be enough and you will be in a world of depression
 
@user1477622 Or rich and never struggle.
 
12:53 AM
which game did he make?
 
Being rich is a reason not to think about money.
 
@user1477622 I don't think about money. I still have too much.
 
Brb guys
 
We want to be rich so we don't have to worry about money.
 
Then why are you saying not to worry about it?
 
12:54 AM
\
 
Because you're rich, obviously.
 
ah i see
 
What I'm saying is that you should not decide to get somewhere because of how much it pays, but because you find that interesting. You need to have a reason to wake up in the morning. Otherwise you'll end up wealthy but wondering what to do with your life.
 
or a crack-addict like the celebrities
 
@EtiennedeMartel So what? You're rich, you can do whatever you want now.
 
12:56 AM
or a crack-addict like many celebrities
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Not exactly.
 
Lol
 
@user1477622 You now you can edit your messages, right?
 
man, I'd love to have moar monies
 
i hit edit, and then backspace moved me back a page heh
 
12:57 AM
Do something u enjoy most stuff you enjoy has good pay
 
@DeadMG I know how! You just need to get a degree, then a job!
 
@DeadMG We're geniuses, let's plan a heist.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I'd need monies to get said degree.
 
Ell
Money can buy you happiness IMHO
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Sounds good to me. But who would actually carry it out? Actually doing things isn't really my style.
 
12:58 AM
@JamesDyson Not really. I enjoy slacking off, and that certainly doesn't have good pay.
 
Not a job in my books hahh
 
Martinho "The Trollinator" Fernandes.
 
I prefer Martinho "The Defect Reportinator" Fernandes
 
I think every title sounds better when you end it with "-inator".
 
that's just my own self-interest, though
 
12:59 AM
Terminator
 

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