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9:00 PM
@EtiennedeMartel You're awesome.
 
sbi
All illiterates diss text.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes.
 
Ell
okay dwarf fortress maketh no sense
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes whaaat. You left the stickers on ?? (@DeadMG)
 
@sbi Though the body language and facial expression match exactly how I felt after that Crowz rubbish (<-- referring to the conversation content, not person) session
 
9:01 PM
@kbok That's not mine.
I actually do remove the damn stickers.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, but I had to point the the photo :)
 
sbi
@sehe Form follows function, eh?
 
@Ell perfectly normal reaction. What caused that remark?
 
Ell
@MooingDuck how long did it take you to start knowing what's going on?
 
9:03 PM
god, this match is so boring
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yes but it's completely unimportant because it expresses nothing worthwhile.
 
@Crowz What?
 
sbi
@bamboon Yeah, I can relate to that.
 
Ell
@MooingDuck there are so many options for so many things, I think I'm going to follow a tutorial
 
@Ell You need to read a tutorial to learn :( Only takes a week or so to get the basics.
 
Ell
9:03 PM
but you should so work on a graphical version :P
 
sbi
3 mins ago, by sbi
All illiterates diss text.
 
I mean, damn it, we've had three discussions now, and every single time you made me get my Flat What out.
3
 
@Ell Oh, you thought you could learn DF without reading something first? That's either very ballsy, or just flat out dumb.
 
@Ell yeah, picking a starting place is tricky, and it's like the first thing you do :D
@R.MartinhoFernandes ignorance
 
@Crowz If you are gonna pick random arguments to fight about in a chatroom, make sure it is highlevel trolling or we'll quickly grow tired, ask you to leave and ignore you...
 
9:05 PM
@MooingDuck And right after that, comes the starting build!
 
@EtiennedeMartel Because the picture on my website must be perfect to express what it needs to. I couldn't care less about what text looks like, it's just for reading.
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel What Flat?
 
Ell
@MooingDuck any tutorial in particular you recommend?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes And then: irrevocable addiction?
 
9:06 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Oooh, it's been some time since someone got a link to The Wiki on the starboard.
@sehe Nah, probably fun by famine (of the dorfs, not the player).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Like we say in French: aux grands maux les grands remèdes.
 
Ah, abstinence by resource starvation
@EtiennedeMartel Well, a link doesn't hurt too much
 
@Ell I'm still looking into it but afteractionreporter.com/dwarf-fortress-tutorials is the first two google hits
@Ell also, you're going to want to bookmark the wiki
 
@Crowz "It's just for reading"? What? You mean you don't care if people leave your site because the text is painful to read?
 
@MooingDuck Yeah, that's what got me started. It probably does not cover some new features, but all of those are optional and discoverable with the wiki once you get to grips with not running into fun.
 
9:08 PM
@EtiennedeMartel JTHM didn't win a comic award because the text was too hard to read. It was still way better than it's competition
 
(and since we're on the matter of reading, "its")
 
sbi
Proof by anecdote.
 
@Crowz The plural of "anecdote" is not "data", by the way.
 
@MooingDuck Oh, wow! That guy wrote a book about DF for O'Reilly!
@EtiennedeMartel Smooth.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Doesn't need to be data. We're talking subjective here.
 
9:11 PM
oh sweet, it has details on the military! I need to read this section! It changed and I never learned the new mechanics :(
 
@Crowz So subjective that you speak in absolutes.
 
sbi
So some JTHM I never heard of allegedly won some comic award that's not even been mentioned. I am impressed.
 
@sbi Googling turned this thing up.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I'm saying that on my website, I don't care about text
 
sbi
9:12 PM
Hyper Text Markup Language.
Just saying.
 
Ell
hmm. Not sure what mode I want to play in o.O
 
@Ell Dwarf Fortress.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes German!
Woa.
 
sbi
Never mind the mode. the only thing important is the mood.
@EtiennedeMartel Actually, this book is in English.
 
9:15 PM
I know, I know.
 
wow this site is stupid
 
Looks like @R.MartinhoFernandes is turning into a German. Soon he'll be able to tank alcohol like a man.
@Crowz Which site?
 
Logical fallacies here
 
9:16 PM
Why is that stupid?
 
It doesn't account for the interpersonal level of arguments
 
Because it's telling you what you can't use?
 
What. (Seriously, sixth time. You're as clear as a swamp)
 
9:17 PM
Only logical. Appeal to emotion and appeal to character, for example, will win someone an argument.
 
You should never use logic in interpersonal arguments. Especially with your girlfriend. Never.
 
Logic isn't everything.
 
@Crowz Doesn't make them any more valid.
@Crowz In a debate? Yes it is. That's the whole point of debating.
 
@EtiennedeMartel The goal of an argument is to win, to have the crowd on your side. It's not to logically prove anything true.
 
sbi
@Crowz Now boy: You better post one unanimous example of someone attacking you ad hominem right now, and show me what I have missed. Or I will stop taking you serious (stopped that long ago) seeing you here.
 
9:18 PM
Logic is only one part of it.
 
@Crowz Spoken like a true politician.
 
How do I get out of this stupid german amazon while still keeping the book ?
 
I feel like I'm missing something...
 
@Crowz Ah, now I know what I found irritating about you. Couldn't put my finger on it, but now I know: you want to be right at any cost, even if you're wrong.
 
@kbok Just replace the TLD with .fr or something. Works 98% of the time.
 
Ell
9:19 PM
ahh I'm confused already. The tutorial said nothing about map generation or anything :O Do I have to edit my dwarves/goblins/humans/elves before I embark?
 
sbi
@Crowz Around here, arguments are held to learn something. If you argue to win, You Are Wrong Here™.
 
@sbi That's a discussion
 
@Crowz It's always a discussion.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Argument connotates two opposing sites vying to convince the other that he's right. You wouldn't say "I was arguing with my professor about this" if you were simply talking about solutions to the problem
 
sbi
An argument, by any other name...
 
9:22 PM
Would still smell as sweet <3
 
@Crowz No one is entirely right or wrong. Ideally, at the end, both agree on some compromise.
 
^ lol
 
@Crowz Yeah, right. And convincing people by sidestepping logic and facts makes you a politician.
 
Except when arguing with @DeadMG. Then you're wrong by default.
 
Are you guys arguing over arguing?
 
9:23 PM
@Pubby Meta-arguing
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel Don't forget the Antarctic bird.
 
@Pubby No (Now I'm arguing about arguing about arguing)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but that makes you a good arguer. Logic isn't everything. In fact, all accounted for, it's probably the smallest part of most arguments.
 
meta-meta-arguing
 
@sbi You mean The Jalfinator?
 
9:24 PM
@Crowz Oh, shit. They failed to account for smoke and mirrors?
 
@Crowz Yes, most arguments are terrible. You are right.
 
@Crowz Doesn't strike me as a positive thing.
 
@Crowz Oh noes. A politician in the lounge
 
@Crowz Just wanted to say something too
 
@EtiennedeMartel Oh it's not, most of the time. But this site is only accounting for the appeal to logic; 1/3 of the argument. Many of these strategies are legitimate for arguments.
 
9:25 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Same thought :)
 
"Legitimate" for politicians.
 
sbi
Now, @Crowz, I think you have spectacularly failed to prove this, so it's time I put you where you belong.
 
@Crowz The fact that you're talking about strategies means we can't possibly agree, because we have completely different views of what an argument is or should be.
 
I'm now going to eat and be productive again. See you
 
@sehe Not really -- a politician may feel that way, but (at least a good one) works at making his appeal to emotion sound like logical reasoning.
 
sbi
9:26 PM
And since I know you folks well enough to know you'll keep discussing with whoever cannot be argued with, I'll leave you to this.
Good night!
 
@EtiennedeMartel I just never cared for overly logical constructs.
 
@sbi We'll crush his soul until only an empty husk remains.
 
@kbok Later.
@sbi G'night.
 
@EtiennedeMartel There's a flaw in your strategy: politicians don't have those.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Silly, I don't have a soul!
 
9:28 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes they do.
There was this dude. But he's dead now.
Hmm, not a very good point I'm making there.
3
 
@JerryCoffin Yup. hence he'll say 'logical illusion' or 'logical skills', not fallacy
 
@EtiennedeMartel Is that the guy from Who's Line?
 
@Crowz Not to say you're right or wrong -- but that doesn't work well for programming. Programming (at all well) demands that you be much more logical than merely avoiding the fallacies cited on a site like that one.
 
@sbi Good night
 
9:29 PM
@JerryCoffin The original post was just about how I dislike this site with the argument shenanigans
 
did I miss a load of commotion?
 
@Pubby It's Jack Layton. He was a Canadian politician. He died of cancer a year ago.
 
@thecoshman Oh you wish :)
 
@Crowz Essentially, if you start arguing here, you better be ready to defend your point with actual logic. If you can't, then, don't argue here.
2
 
@Crowz We can see why.
 
9:30 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes <3
 
Ibrahimovic vs ENGLAND 4:2 (all 4 goals Ibra)
 
@sehe does that mean that there was no commotion, or that it's still going on?
 
@EtiennedeMartel that's some "austere" portrait. Didn't know they still made them that way (well, did, actually, but just for this moment, let's forget about that)
@thecoshman Use your eyes? And: no and no
 
tl;dr
 
When will we make robot eyes?
I want super robot eyes
 
9:31 PM
@Crowz So that you can finally see text?
 
@EtiennedeMartel zaaang
Text on website is so boring, too...
I mentioned that my website is for art, right?
 
@Crowz You never did, actually.
 
Who cares.
You did post over a thousand lines of code here.
 
@Crowz I guess you're one of those hyperactive kids who yell "TL;DR" if there's more than 140 characters in front of them.
 
9:33 PM
That was totally not boring text.
 
Ell
aha I've got them to cut down some trees! But I can't get them to mine o.O
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because text on an art website is horribly boring. Who'd read that? "lol I drew those pictures with a pencilll and it was cool and there was like, graphite everywhere oh my god"
 
@Ell Did you bring picks?
 
@Crowz Sure, if you write boring text, it's going to be boring to read.
 
@Ell Does anyone have the Mining job assigned?
 
9:34 PM
@EtiennedeMartel What text could be more interesting than pictures, though?
 
Ell
No. The tutorial says to mine the cliffs, but when I try to select an area, nothing happens
 
@EtiennedeMartel Text is boring because it's not visual.
 
Ell
brb phone
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, it's abstract. Whatever that means.
@Crowz This story, for instance.
5
 
I knew what it was the moment you posted it!
 
Ell
9:35 PM
back. I think its because I'm trying to mine a downward cliff?
 
@Crowz Pictures can be much more interesting with at least a little text. Look at National Geographic -- they have some of the best photography on earth to publish, but virtually never publish a picture without a caption and at least a short story to give some context.
 
@JerryCoffin To explain it defeats the purpose
 
Oh right, people are at work. I work from home. So, I guess all I can say is HAHAHAHAHA. I mean, wait ’til you get home to watch it.
@R.MartinhoFernandes what was that about?
 
@Ell Each square is made up of a wall and a floor, the latter of which serves as the ceiling to the lower level. Some designation you can make are 'mine', which means 'remove the walls', but that won't work for ramps (the ones that hopefully look like triangles).
 
@Crowz If it's abstract art, sure.
 
9:37 PM
Oh that.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Nah I just want it to disturb people deeply. Text with it never does it justice
 
@sehe Don't remember anymore. The joys of working from home or something.
 
@Crowz Alright, show me your art.
 
@Crowz If explaining defeats the purpose, the picture probably wasn't worth publishing in the first place.
 
Then I'll forward it to my artist friends.
 
9:38 PM
@Ell Furthermore if you're already out in the open, then there's likely nothing to mine -- there's no wall anymore. There are appropriate designations to dig down. E.g. you can remplace a floor with stairs or with a ramp, which allows a dorf to go up or down to the neighbouring cell.
 
@JerryCoffin What am I even supposed to say about it?
 
@Ell is playing DF now?
 
Ell
Indeed :3 and woo I got him to mine. I also built some apparently pointless stairs :L
 
And talking strange topics, and speaking to his phone
 
@Crowz Impossible to answer without knowing what "it" you're talking about.
 
9:40 PM
@Ell if you want to go down you have to dig a downward ramp or a downward stair. "regular mining" just goes sideways
heh, my wife packed my lunch today. Salad, and apple, and soup, and a cake. For eating, she packed a bowl, a fork and a knife. Had to use a work-spoon :D
 
@JerryCoffin Just feels so corny to me to write something about it
 
@Ell If you go down a level around those stairs you may want to try mining around the new stairs that appeared.
 
Ell
ahh right okay
 
@Ell yeah, trying to connect all the bits is ttricky
 
9:43 PM
@Ell wagons need a 3-wide ramp to go up or down by the way.
also remember that ramps always must be next to a wall, and will go toward the wall, so there must be an empty space above that wall.
ramps are faster than stairs, but stairs are easier, and can be totally vertical.
 
@Crowz Then don't. It's one thing to decide you don't want to write about something. Quite another to say writing about it would ruin it. Some art doesn't need anything written about it. Some other benefits greatly. Something that needs to be un-captioned (at least IME) is usually bland and shallow, trying to to masquerade as deep and enigmatic.
 
Ell
Don't really know what I've done with the stairs, but I've managed to create a little farm plot
I'm getting there, and it looks so fun :P
 
@Ell Wait until you get wiped out.
 
@JerryCoffin There's simply nothing to be said about it.
 
Ell
Just stuggling a bit planting some plump helmets
can't get the menu to move down from dimple cups
 
9:47 PM
Use +-
 
Ell
ahh ta
 
@Pubby I totally rebound those to / and '. "page up" and "page down" to . and ;. Much nicer
 
@MooingDuck I use numpad (for movement) so it's not very bad. What do you use?
Arrow keys?
 
@Pubby regular arrows. I don't have a numpad
 
9:52 PM
I was thinking / and . would be good for vi keys, but I wasn't sure if DF had those bound
 
Ell
what are those little purple skull & bones?
 
@Ell dead rodents the cats killed
 
Ell
ahh okay
I thought they were squirrels :P
 
you can use k and v (I think) to view what things are
 
Ell
ahh yes k
 
9:57 PM
@Ell make a garbage stockpile outside, and also a garbage zone outside. two seperate things (can be the same area) for dwarves to put the corpses in
Otherwise they'll rot and smell and make everyone unhappy
 
@Ell You're using a graphic set? Filthy casual!
 
Ell
@MooingDuck I've put down a little refuse stockpile
 
I've never quite figured out why some things go in garbage stockpile and others in garbage zone, but it's mostly irrelevant
 
Ell
and also a corpse stockpile
 
@Ell I think corpses go in stockpiles, I think you're fine
ah, thinks you manually mark for dumping go in the garbage zone, all automatic things go in refuse stockpile. dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/40d:Dumping#Garbage_Dump
 
10:00 PM
That's correct
Usually you want garbage zone(s) inside fortress and refuse outside
 
Ell
this game is actually epic, and I can't even play yet
 
what would happen, gravitationally, if the sun disappear?
 
@Ell keep in mind that animals and theives will steal stuff they can get their hands on, so eventually you'll want indoor piles with access to sunlight (sunlight = outside as far as teh game cares)
@Crowz not much. Earth would go off into the galaxy.
More importantly we'd freeze to death
 
Would it rotate around the object with the second highest impact on gravity?
 
@Ell The easiest defense is a long trapped hallway as the only entrance. Cage traps are awesome, but one time use. Weapon traps are less effective, but reusable until they jam
@Crowz probably not. It's possible we'd get close to Jupiter and orbit that, but more likely we'd just travel, or get sucked into Jupiter and die.
 
Ell
10:03 PM
What I think is more interesting is, would the effect happen immediately? or would there be a "wave of gravity"
 
@Ell around the third fall, expect a wave of a hundred zombies.
@Ell it would take ~6 minutes for us to stop orbiting the sun, at which point we'd just go in a straight line.
 
@Crowz That would be the moon -- and yes, the earth and moon would probably continue to revolve around their common center of gravity. Where earth would go any starting to revolve around anything else would depend on which direction we happened to be headed when the sun disappeared.
 
Well this is the best thing I've seen in a while...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXK5kgiUyFo&feature=relmfu
 
10:09 PM
@Ell random note: Dwarf Fortress water pressure is "quirky" when pressurized water flows downhill. Be careful digging under lakes more than 1 square deep.
 
Ell
@MooingDuck that implies gravity is a particle o.O
 
@Ell yes it does imply that.
 
Ell
and I have avoided that just with my experience with minecraft :P
 
water 1 square deep is safe
@Ell nothing travels faster than the speed of light, even gravity.
Hmm, a telephone number I've never seen before just texted me "Hello Duck!" (where Duck was my actual real first name)
 
10:12 PM
@MooingDuck Perhaps some friend just got a new number?
 
@JerryCoffin that was my first thought
 
0
Q: warning: passing argument 1 of 'atoi' from incompatible pointer type?

AkshaiShahI have the following code which is producing an error: fscanf(atoi(pointer), "%d", &values[i]) When i try to make the program, I get the error warning: passing argument 1 of 'atoi' from incompatible pointer type ? Not sure whats wrong, as the input file contains ASCII codes, which are conve...

Passing a FILE* to atoi o.O
 
Wow string manipulation in C sucks
 
@Crowz You know what else sucks?
 
10:18 PM
@Chimera Yea, because I haven't been here in a while :/
 
@Crowz This.
 
@Drise Hey man! Long time no see! How are you doing?
 
@EtiennedeMartel black hole
 
@Chimera Average.
 
@MooingDuck Also.
 
10:19 PM
Two words: Java, Swing.
 
@Drise Anything new and exciting going on?
 
@Chimera Not particularly.
 
@Drise Ah ok. Well, good to see you.
 
@Chimera Indeed. You as well.
However, my stay is short lived.
 
Ell
it appears some migrants have arrived
@Drise Hi!
 
10:20 PM
@Drise Oh yeah?
 
@Ell Hey Ell
@Chimera Indeed.
 
@Ell every 3 months you get migrants based on the increase in "wealth" (stuff/prettiness) of your fortress, followed shortly therafter by traders if you have a depot.
traders are followed shortly by thieves or small ambushes, easily defeated by traps.
 
Oh, btw, has anyone else ordered the Nexus 10?
 
@MooingDuck What game? USA - Real Life?
 
@Chimera Dwarf Fortress
 
10:22 PM
Or the new one - USA - Immigrants Free-for-All?
@MooingDuck Ah ok.
 
Ell
@Drise Not me. I want one though :P
 
@Drise Not here. I just recently purchased an Asus Transformer Infinity tablet though. Nice piece.
 
Well, I half bought it to shut my roommate up about how superior the iPride is
And it doubles the ppi versus my Xoom
 
Ell
mind you, I read the battery & backlight aren't so good :/
 
Ugh, ASCII graphics? Really?
@Drise Lol, going to start using that - iPride
 
10:25 PM
@melak47 There might be some rpath nonsense going on.
 
@CatPlusPlus shouldn't the executable look in it's current directory for the lib also?
 
Depends on ldconfig, probably
This is not very important on *nixes and they usually don't consider current directory for executables, so probably doubly so for libs
 
Do people here not like apple or something?
 
@Crowz not at all...Radek likes apple! :p
 
10:28 PM
 
@Drise awesome
@Crowz I don't really like apple.
 
@Chimera Having terminal is nice
 
@Crowz Apples are good. That reminds me: good time of year to make an apple pie.
 
@Crowz OSX is nice, but Apple itself drives me insane with the prices and lock in they promote.
 
@Crowz When you live with an apple fanboy, you being to hate it.
 
10:30 PM
@Chimera Troof troof. That's why I never buy anything apple, but I have nothing against their products
 
@Crowz You still have Linux, you know.
 
@CatPlusPlus ok, should probably make it so that it will work with the dist dir's layout some time. although I don't think cosh had any issue with this, might just be my gcc/g++ version being weird..?
 
Run ldd kyrostat
 
@Drise Difficult to use. and I only use my computer for the internet and vidya gaems.
 
(libvendor isn't that important, though, it's a shared library only in debug)
It's linked in statically for release
 
10:31 PM
@Crowz I don't understand why people think the iPhone is so great. My wife has one and I think my Android based phone is far nicer.
 
@Chimera I have an iPhone, it's a tad more aesthetic than other phones out there but all in all it's not particularly impressive.
 
And when I want to put content on my phone or Android tablet, I don't have to fuck around with iTunes bullshit.
 
Ell
I will agree they are more aesthetic
 
Pretty things are important
(Holy shit it's a phone)
 
@Crowz Not... really? I've been trying to give up on Windows, but too many video games are PC only.
 
10:33 PM
Pon pon way way way, pon pon way pon way pon pon
@CatPlusPlus Form over function, dude.
 
@Drise It's not VERY hard to use, but has its quirks.
 
@Crowz Ubuntu 12.04 is pretty straight forward
 
Ell
I must go now!
 
And in all honesty, Dual boot.
 
Ell
10:34 PM
It was nice seeing you @Drise! :) Have a good time until we talk next :3
 
haha Ubuntu
 
what do you run? gentoo? :)
 
@Drise Yeah, gaming is pretty much Windows' last bastion.
That, and corporate stuff.
 
@EtiennedeMartel For us at work, Linux as much as possible.
 
10:36 PM
@Drise Yes, do like that.
 
I'm way too lazy for dual boot.
 
If I were installing Linux now, I'd pick Arch
 
I prefer the simplicity of coding in vim terminal
 
I'm off folks
@Crowz Oh you..
 
I put Xubuntu in my VM. "It just werks" but it also doesn't have ****** unity
 
10:37 PM
@Drise When you minimize functions to i and arrow keys, it's quite nice
 
I like Unity.
 
@Drise Everyone likes Unity.
 
In 12.04, it's pretty decent
 
Don't like all the stuff that's going on with eclipse, only use it if I am doing OpenGL
 
@Crowz Fuck eclipse, yay Qt Creator
 
10:39 PM
qt3.14
 
Anyhow, again, Bye folks.
 
Ooo hey this qtcreator looks awesome
 
@Crowz Old as fuck.
 
@EtiennedeMartel cutie pie? ;
;)
 
@Crowz Dear fuck.
This pun.
 
10:43 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Should at least be Qtπ.
 
@EtiennedeMartel you're a qt3.14
 
I'm indeed incredibly sexy. But not as much as @JerryCoffin.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Wanna get together and...
destroy all humans?
 
No. I'm an idealist. I save people.
 
@EtiennedeMartel He's an idealist too -- saving the earth (from people).
 
10:49 PM
Actually I'm just bored
 
@Crowz I read that as "boned".
And I thought "oh well!"
 
SSomeday I will be a woman
 
@EtiennedeMartel If I'm more than "incredibly sexy", I have to wonder what kind of language you must use to describe, say, Jessica Alba. You must need nearly an entire new dictionary!
 
Dwarf fortress bugs are always hilarious.
 
@JerryCoffin I have a different standard for women.
 
11:00 PM
"Amphibian invader mounts drown their riders. "
 
@EtiennedeMartel Ah, that would help.
 
11:19 PM
@melak47 I used to run Gentoo servers
That was always fun
 
11:31 PM
ABSORBING SEX FROM THE ATMOSPHERE
 
Ell
Win.
 
Is there any differences that need be made for writing in C++ vs C
 
@Crowz what? yes
 
@MooingDuck I can still use gcc as a compiler?
 
11:41 PM
@Crowz gcc/g++
 
@Crowz yes, GCC is a c compiler, G++ is the C++ compiler (though GCC will sometimes call G++ for you if you give it .cpp files)
 
Ooo. Okay
I've never written in C++, but I've done C. Trying to get into it.
 
pro tip: Forget C.
 
@Crowz Learning C++ after C means you'll need to unlearn a bunch of stuff.
 
11:44 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, we used C in school though.
 

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