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3:00 PM
@Xeo Is because I'm on a tablet that this page is blank? Aside from the side menu
 
@Borgleader Don't worry, it's just someone asking to rename std-proposals to std::proposals...
 
Oh gawd...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes they are so going to regret creating those "forums"
 
18 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@Xeo Yeah, the nutjobs are incoming.
 
meh, I meant to post this
 
3:06 PM
nutjob
 
What? FTR, there were nutjobs there long before they put these on isocpp.org. But since they did (and since Herb's video) the ratio accelerated.
 
lol
what do you expect when you give something that much exposure
nutjobs get attracted to places where they can prove how nutty they really are.
 
looks around..... how did I end up in here? o_O
 
I remember once there was someone asking for making all pointer casts implicit in C++, or something like that.
@rlemon This room attracts talent?
 
3:08 PM
Or is it lack of talent? I am always confusing those two.
 
no really, I clicked the js room (I think someone spoke in here and bumped the room up to the top of my list)
either way.... scary
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Perhaps lack of talent. I often just hang around to listen to the standardese.
Although I'm speaking for myself :)
 
@TonyTheLion Why do you think I used the term "nutjob"?
 
@robjb you are in like... every room I'm in. I'm beginning to become concerned :/
 
@rlemon You followed me here this time
Actually, you followed me to C# too.
 
3:10 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes that a rhetorical question?
 
Bah, lemons don't follow - we hang around (and prevent scurvy... see, I'm awesome!)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It seems to attract both extremes.
 
Ha. Either way these are the only three rooms I typically lurk.
 
you lurker!
you should participate instead of lurking
 
Yeah. You can't use our virtual designer couches for free!
 
3:16 PM
indeed :P
 
lurkers gonna lurk
 
@StackedCrooked I think nearly everybody who shows up here is pretty talented. In some cases, the talent is just a lot more for trolling than coding.
 
Xeo
Hm. Should I dare to ask on meta for a clang-bot for the chat?
 
Oh, and hi everybody.
 
Anyone who's here is talented enough to gather 20 rep
 
3:17 PM
@kbok I'm afraid that doesn't strike me as requiring much talent.
 
@JerryCoffin Well, let's just say it's 20rep-talent :)
 
@JerryCoffin You can simply gather 200 rep on, say, Home Improvement, and then associate accounts. BAM instant 101 rep.
 
It's, say, 2 on the Open File Guy scale.
 
Oh gawd, not that again.
 
@kbok I've lost count of the number of times I've (temporarily) gained at least 20 rep from answers that were dead wrong.
 
3:19 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes What do you have against OFG ?
 
@JerryCoffin Annoying isn't it?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes A bit, yes. Then again, I've made up for it with some pretty good answers that were (almost) completely ignored.
 
@JerryCoffin hi wasp!
@Xeo Yes Yes!
 
We could make one ourselves but I'm afraid boting is not allowed on this chat.
 
@JerryCoffin I hate that!
 
Xeo
3:22 PM
@kbok They do it themselves with the Feeds bot!
 
@kbok don't be afraid. We will be here to protect you from danger! :P
 
@Xeo It does not reply to commands.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but you do :P
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sure does, except the input interface is not the chat. :P
 
@TonyTheLion I hated it at one time -- but got over it ~20 years ago.
It's still annoying, but I can't waste the energy to work up real hatred...
 
3:23 PM
@JerryCoffin oh right. Well, I haven't been active for that long, so I'm still getting over it.
 
@JerryCoffin Real hatred takes too much energy.
1
Q: how to get the compiled extended to a function or loop

MartinI have a function with a loop that I would get the extended development of the loop in c++ code. Also I have a recursive function that I wanted to get the same. An example of I need: for (i = 0; i <4; i + +) {       prtintf ("% d", "example"); } should result that i need prtintf ("% d", "...

lol, someone likes whitespace a bit too much.
 
TIL The robot can't get angry when on power save mode.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's why the with are so strong.
 
@kbok I rarely get angry anyway.
 
-funroll-loop
 
3:27 PM
@Borgleader you a word
 
s/with/Sith damn autocorrect
 
user image
7
 
@Borgleader Had me wondering there for a moment. But aren't Sith just a bit ... different-dimension for a Borg leader?
 
@kbok Upvote for you sir
 
Thanks :)
 
3:31 PM
@JerryCoffin Nah, Borgs are just sociopathic, species conquering androids.
 
Xeo
@Borgleader So Google is behind everything, huh?
 
Lololol so it would seem
 
Borgs are the poem reading dudes right ?
You know, I watched the movie after reading the book and it was fucking terrible
Ah well, no, I'm not thinking about the right guys
 
What?! Poems?
 
@kbok Borg exist within the rubric of Rubik.
 
3:38 PM
@kbok That's Vogons.
 
I mistook with Vogons :)
 
I just want to go hom
 
@thecoshman I never really want to hom, I just do it when I don't know the words.
 
the BBC TV show / Radio Play is far superior to the book
*Movie, even
 
@JerryCoffin ... or drunk?
 
3:43 PM
stupid two minutes to edit
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hummm....nope. Never sing when I'm drunk (not that I remember, anyway).
 
user image
2
^ hahaha
 
I almost did once though -- years ago (long before I even met my wife) I was at a club and a pretty hot girl decided she wanted to sing karaoke with me. Unfortunately, it was close to closing time and other people were already waiting. She was drunk enough that she lost interest pretty quickly.
 
Serial upvoter. Dammit.
Hmm, maybe not.
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
3:50 PM
^ Cereal upvoter.
 
Xeo
0
Q: Understanding move semantics

krishtrI'm trying to get my head around how the compiler treats move semantics and so far I'm understanding it but the following code segment and behaviour has me confused. Consider a class test class test { public: test() { std::cout << "test ctor" << std::endl; } ~test() { std::c...

Close votes.
 
So, does anyone know about database normalization?
 
@Aardvark Har har
 
@Crowz If I did, I wouldn't admit it here! But I don't -- I swear! :-)
 
@JerryCoffin Dammit, I was about to say something similar.
 
3:55 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'd say something about great minds thinking alike, but it would probably mean less about greatness than my being almost a robot.
 
int everydayIshuffle() {
shuffle();
sleep(86400000);
everydayIshuffle();
}
 
user1804599
@Crowz yes.
 
@Aardvark What are first, second, and third normal forms?
 
user1804599
@Crowz I don't know anything about it, sorry.
 
user1804599
But I'm sure somebody does.
 
user1804599
3:57 PM
Database normalization is the process of organizing the fields and tables of a relational database to minimize redundancy and dependency. Normalization usually involves dividing large tables into smaller (and less redundant) tables and defining relationships between them. The objective is to isolate data so that additions, deletions, and modifications of a field can be made in just one table and then propagated through the rest of the database via the defined relationships. Edgar F. Codd, the inventor of the relational model, introduced the concept of normalization and what we now know as ...
 
So difficult
 
IIRC first second and third normal form are basically bull shit terms. Just remove duplicated data and you will be fine
by remove, I mean extract to a separate table and index it
 
@thecoshman Huh?
 
@Crowz Although it's usually stated in more sophisticated terms, 1NF is pretty trivial: no duplicate records. IMO, 2NF isn't worth discussing (if you care about normalization at all, you skip lightly past 2NF to at least 3NF). 3NF is most memorably expressed as "the key, the whole key, and nothing but the key" -- IOW, everything else in a table describes something about "the key..."
 
@Crowz if some big wig asks if the data base is in first normal form, must smile and nod politely
 
4:11 PM
Okay, so third normal form is referencing everything by unique keys?
Isn't that a hashmap or something?
 
more or less
the idea is, that all data can reduced down to either being a key for a certain table, or a collection of keys that mean something
 
Okay... then first normal form is just to never have repeating data? Isn't that like... what databases already do?
 
no they don't
 
@Crowz No, but it's definitely getting too complex to go into here in any detail. The main thing being dealt with in 2NF and 3NF is composite keys -- a key that's composed of at least two columns (fields). Consider something like "company", "division" and "location" as a composite key. It's basically saying if you have (for example) data that's about the company as a whole, it can't go in a table with "company", "division" and "location" as the key.
You create one table with "company" as the key, and put data about the whole company there. Then you have a separate table with "company" and "division" as the key, and put data specific to divisions of companies there (etc.)
 
I see, makes sense
 
4:16 PM
@Crowz if you had a list of people and favorite colours, you will soon find that things like 'red' will be repeated a lot, 1NF is making a 'colour' table and each user has a favorate colour '1'
 
@thecoshman "and each user has a favorate colour '1'", what do you mean by that?
 
the only thing that repeats is the key. The actual value 'red' 'blue' etc is only stored once
 
Ah I see
 
| dan | red |
| frank | red |
| bob | blue|
^ BAD BAD BAD ^
| dan | 1 |
| frank | 1 |
| bob | 2 |
^ good good good ^
 
Then what would second and third normal form be in that example?
 
4:19 PM
I think 3NF is if you have something like a user table
each field in that table is only about that user
say, 'age' 'name' 'address'
it get's a bit fuzzy to me, too much bull shit
any way, time to head home
 
@thecoshman That's not really 1NF (or even very closely related). If you really want to get into it, 1NF says a field can only hold one value. Using your example, as long as everybody has only one favorite color, it's fine. But, if somebody wants "red and blue", you have to either let the pick only one favorite, or else break the favorite colors into a separate table, keyed on users, so red and blue ends up as two separate rows.
 
Oh you mean using a table to do many to many relations
database design always seemed like something over complicated to me
 
ahh
my cow workers are driving me crazy
what is so hard about keeping vertical whitespace consistent
 
@thecoshman Yes. The most common example here is addresses. A company (or person) might have two or more addresses. You can't just create two records for the same person/company, one for each address (the lack of duplicates I originally referred to). You also can't just stuff both addresses into one address field.
 
FFS
 
4:27 PM
@kbok That sounds more like pig workers than cow workers. Cows are very picky about their vertical whitespace.
 
@JerryCoffin :)
 
I love you guys
 
:P
 
@emartel BOXXY + POCKY = LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE
 
4:36 PM
oh god
I stopped working on a project since a more urgent one popped, and a coworker of mine took it
 
I like Boxxy. She makes me happy. Too bad she's just a figment of my imagination
 
What did they do with my code
There's a struct with 13 booleans in it
as integers
 
@kbok Hahahahaha
 
struct abc {
  int isA;
  int isXy;
  int isBlah;
  // 13 like that
};
 
4:39 PM
@Crowz Get your right hand on this.
 
Well this is the other way around
 
@kbok svn blame
 
I know who did this
 
@EtiennedeMartel wat?
 
@kbok Then hit him with a shovel.
A flaming shovel.
@Crowz Well, you know, a date with Rosie Palms.
 
4:41 PM
Hitting people with flaming shovels is illegal in my country
 
@Crowz Given the number of Manga/Anime enthusiasts here, I'd have thought Minxy would be more popular.
 
kbok, then hide a few slices of ham in one of his desk drawers if he's far enough from you, it'll take time, but it should be good payback :D
 
Nooooo no anime, I like just love weird people
 
this girl is pretty weird
 
@kbok It's here too. But can't you fill a form or something that would allow you to hit people with said flaming shovel? I know you French dudes love red tape.
@JerryCoffin Eh, funny thing is that mose of her fans watch her videos for her rather plunging neckline.
 
4:44 PM
@emartel Not weird enough!
 
@Crowz :/
 
@EtiennedeMartel Really? I never would have guessed!
 
@JerryCoffin I like stating the obvious.
 
I watch her videos for the informative content
also boobs
 
Still, I'm sure she's fully aware of that and figured she should just roll with it.
 
4:47 PM
@EtiennedeMartel It's a very long procedure and you need an address in either Alsace or Lorraine.
 
@EtiennedeMartel that's internet marketing :P
boobs sell
 
Tremendously.
 
I wish I had boobs
 
ahem
 
life is so much easier for females :P
(if you ignore the fact they bleed once a month and they poop babies)
 
4:51 PM
@kbok How odd -- I'd have thought with the EU parliament there, they wouldn't allow things like that in Alsace. Or do you have to be in Alsace, but outside of Strasbourg?
 
> Is it native c++, or something wierd, like, the same way .NET programs aren't actual c++, they just look like it.
lol
0
Q: A Few Questions About QT

ForgiveMeI'mAN00b Is it free? It looks like on the website it says "Try Now", which makes me worry that it just gives you a demo. Do you have to pay the QT company anything to distribute a program using QT, or can you just throw it (the program) out there and just say you used QT. Is it native c++, or something w...

 
@emartel And also get discriminated against.
 
If I were I girl I wouldn't be too happy to know that any fuck who happens to have a pair a balls would be better paid than me.
 
@kbok That's a falsified statistic
 
@Crowz What.
 
4:54 PM
Not here it isn't
 
There's a paper published about this... gotta find
 
@Crowz A paper?
 
I mean a really good one
 
Strange, I remember reading a paper that said the opposite.
So who's right?
 
Obviously the one who has most papers
 
4:58 PM
America?
Well think about it logically for a second. Women are completely equal workers to men. If women are paid significantly less than men, why would anyone hire men?
 
Oh god you're right, it's not logical. Why would anyone think like that ? They would have to be complete idiots.
 
@Crowz What?
 
Hint: they are
 
The basic idea is that women are less competent, so they're paid less.
Which is bullshit if you ask me.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Women are plenty competent, but there's more factors. Even if women are considered less competent, you'd want to hire workers for 70 cents on the dollar if you're a business owner
 
5:01 PM
@Crowz For the same reasons that men are favored over women in the first place
 
Although I remember seeing a good point: women are traditionally attracted to areas which pay less, such as social studies or education. Which raises another bunch of questions: why do they pay less?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Because they're government jobs and not capitalist ones.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Why are nurses paid significantly less than doctors?
 
@Neil Don't nurses have less education and less responsibilities than doctors? Also, men and women can be nurses
 
Because once upon a time, nurse was simply a female assistant to the doctor.. now they have to have degrees and they pull more than their fair share
But the role hasn't changed.. they're still thought of as lesser doctors
 
5:04 PM
@Neil You know men can be nurses, right? And still be paid less than a doctor?
 
This is one of those areas I'm pretty sure nobody knows a real answer -- and almost all of the studies (that I've seen anyway) seemed to have been done with the intent of supporting a foregone conclusion, rather than a disinterested gathering of data.
 
@Crowz That's why I started my sentence with "once upon a time"
 
@Neil Doesn't this prove we've moved forward in dissipating gender roles?
And are inherently less sexist?
 
@Crowz Men have been allowed to be nurses, but the role has not changed.
 
@Neil At least in the US, some nurses have 2-year degrees, and some have 4-year degrees. Doctors normally require 8 years of college/med school plus something like 3 years of residency.
 
5:07 PM
@Neil Because there are way more of them than doctors.
 
@Neil But they are still not full doctors. They have smaller degrees and an inherent job. It's like saying "why doesn't geek squad make as much as CERN engineers?"
 
From a practical viewpoint, a doctor (in the same field) is generally allowed to do anything a nurse is -- but there's quite a bit a doctor is allowed to do that a nurse isn't (e.g., surgery).
 
if you paid a nurse as much as a doctor, you'd rapidly run out of budget
but it's a lot harder to find good doctors, so there's competition for them
 
I wanna be a psychiatrist
But 11 years of school sounded agonizing
 
-5
A: Best way to detect integer overflow in C/C++

aberglasJust do it in Visual Basic, or any other non-C language A = B + C Overflow detection on by default. C# but not Java can do this too. Quickly found a few bugs for me that would have been hard with C. But C is meant to be hard. In the days before C, many CPUs had an overflow trap, so this ca...

^^ haha
check the second comment.
 
5:10 PM
Nevermind. When I have a point that I have a hard time putting into words, better just to shut up here
 
@Mysticial Build a teleporter, then you don't have to worry about it!
 
I should add, however, that some of the difference seems (at least to me) to be artificially generated. In the US, for one example, the number of medical schools has remained virtually constant for decades, while the population has more than doubled. Nursing schools seem to be much closer to keeping pace with population growth.
 
@VinayakGarg Good to know, was unaware of all of that. I figure I have about a 10% chance at having found the problem anyway.
Nope. Runtime error :(
 
@Mysticial I cant see it :(
 
Aww... Kerrek just deleted it.
> "How do I change the chains on my bicycle?" "JUST BUY A CAR OR USE ANY OTHER NON-BICYCLE MODE OF TRANSPORT" – Juhana Apr 27 at 7:32
 
5:15 PM
@JerryCoffin Because only the elite segment of the population can afford medical school, and has a serious chance of getting sufficient academics to go through one.
 
@DeadMG dem schmert folkz
 
Man, I just checked the bio of Brian Fargo
Every game, ever, this guy oversaw was a hit
 
@Mysticial I do like deleting things it seems...
 
@kbok Every game Eidos ever made was awesome
 
Yeah, but Eidos is not one dude
 
5:20 PM
... OR IS IT?
DUN DUN DUNNNN
 
Im Eidos
nice to meet you
I got fat enough recently that I can probably classify as a corporation
 
@DeadMG Actually, no. Medical schools turn away lots of well-qualified applicants every year.
 
@JerryCoffin indeed, my gf is about to graduate, and the selection process can be pretty hard in some Universities
 
5:24 PM
John Carmacks track record used to be pretty good. Before Quake 4 that is
 
rating devs based on games they ship makes no sense :P
 
@emartel There is all the games that have been made by interplay. It was a big company at times. I said "the games he oversaw" not "the games his company happened to make"
 
Carmack is still one of the great programmer in the industry, if the Creative Director takes shitty decisions, not the coding team's fault :P
 
True true
Oddly, I cant wait to see what he does with the Occulus Rift.
 
huh... how do you return a unique_ptr of a subtype to what the function declare it will return?
 
5:26 PM
@kbok well he's executive producer on Choplifter HD ... the name seems pretty crappy :P
 
Indeed lol
 
damn my games list on moby games is lame compared to these kind of guys
 
Well not all of his games are great actually
 
I used to work with that guy mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,34949 ... basically he's head of testing at Ubisoft, so any game that passes through, he gets his name in the credits :P
 
@emartel You work at Ubi Soft ?
 
5:29 PM
@kbok used to
I resigned when Assassin's Creed shipped
the first one
 
Why ?
I've been told the Paris offices are a nice place to work at if you want to pursue a career in gamedev
 
long story short, I came from Microids where salaries were shitty... got a raise when I changed company without realizing I was still getting under paid... fought with the HR dept for 3-4 years about it, they always found excuses not to raise my salary... so after AC (which was pretty good for my resume) I left for another company and finally got a decent salary
 
@kbok AC was made in Montreal Canada...
 
yes I'm from Montrael
 
You accidentally 2 letters
 
5:32 PM
I think the Paris office is only publishing? I thought the dev studio was in Montreuil, but anyway, yeah, it's a good thing to be "French" at Ubisoft... from what I heard work conditions / budgets are better there :P
I like Rael :D
 
"Mont Rael" lol
 
I thought the crazy rabbits or whatever you call them were done in Paris. I could be wrong though
 
@Borgleader yes this Rael :P
haha kidding
Oh it's possible...
then the rule of "being french" must still apply there :P
 
@emartel Oh, Montreuil is just outside of Paris, behind the gate :)
 
5:36 PM
(I have nothing against French people by the way :) it's just that over time, Ubisoft Montreal started as a Quebec branch of Ubi, but after maybe 7 years of operation all the Quebec upper management were "asked to leave" and were replaced by French guys :P)
 
The top management probably had better control over the French dudes
 
well they were friends, so I guess that helps
 
Anyway I'll consider Ubi when I'll grow tired of my job. It's the only serious opportunity for a gamedev in France I'm afraid.
 
but it's a shame cause it's the Quebec upper management that brought the studio to life with games like Prince of Persia, Splinter Cell and even Assassin's Creed (which was later finished under French management)
@kbok seeing as you're working in finances, I don't think you'll like the pay in games :P
 
Oh :(
I'm leaving the finance industry. This is not a technology-friendly environnement.
 
5:39 PM
yeah I guess
well, games are still fun to work on
but the mentality changed over the years
 
But I'm leaving with the salary bar set quite high :)
 
@emartel Which AC did you work on?
 
the first 1
 
Ah, neat
 
I programmed the camera system, achievements and a tracking system to extract data from playtest sessions
it was pretty fun, despite the 80+ hrs a week for months with no paid overtime :D
 
5:41 PM
Damn
What kind of experience did you have with game programming before getting into the industry?
 
Close to none
but I started in 2001
things were different back then
I had programmed a landscape renderer and you could move the camera around
these days, you download Ogre3D and the samples are more complex than that ... so :)
 
Hmm
 
@kbok you can still try to have a salary match, but it's highly unlikely :( We used to discard resumes where the guy had a PhD cause we knew he'd be asking for too much hahah
 
@emartel Ah, well, I would probably be asking for too much then
 
5:44 PM
@robjb when I review resumes or interview people, I don't really care about their gamedev experience. Sure it helps, having exposure to big projects make you see potential issues, etc... but what I'm looking for is a problem solver who has a logical brain, can learn new stuff and communicate with others :)
 
@emartel Really? Because I feel like anything and everything I can find in the game industry is asking for 4-5+ years experience
 
@TonyTheLion I always preferred: "Press to test. Test successful...release to detonate."
 
@kbok seeing your age, you look pretty young... so here in Canada, with < 4 years of experience it would be hard to deal for a salary higher than 60K CDN
@robjb if you're confident in your skills, apply anyway :)
these are filters HR use not to receive too many resumes
BUT
 
@emartel I don't know how that scales in French salaries
 
they can still trash your CV if they don't get somebody competent to look at it
 
5:47 PM
@kbok 1 Canadian dollar = 0.7835 euros
 
~47 000 euros
 
@robjb there's more than just teh translation rate. There's also the burger/rent rates
 
@robjb the best trick to get in the industry is to know someone who works @ the company where you want to apply
 
@MooingDuck Touche
 
@MooingDuck yeah but that's hard to predict, housing in Montreal is more expensive than if you live 30 mins away... Same thing with Paris and its suburbs
 
5:49 PM
@emartel burgers make a reliable food rate.
 
@robjb if you have an IGDA chapter in your area, you should visit and try to meet people there :)
 
@emartel Thanks! :)
 
International jobs should be compared as McDonalds burgers/hour.
 
@MooingDuck I guess crappy burgers like McD's can be a good indicator :)
 
@emartel What's the price of renting a place for one person to live in in the center of the city ? In the suburbs ? What is the price of a meal ?
 
5:51 PM
@emartel I tried to calculate mine but realized I don't konw how much a mcdonalds burger is here. I get chicken nuggets :(
 
Here the Big Mac costs 3,50€, and a "real" burger costs 14€
 
@kbok my appartment is 1200$ / month... I'm not downtown though but for 1 guy, it would probably be around that price. Meals ... well it depends on your tastes, a "semi fast food" restaurant will be 10-15$ for a meal
same here, real burgers are expensive :P
meat is more expensive than oatmeal mix :P
 
@emartel I think the standard measurement is whatever mcdonald's cheapest burger is. It's roughly the same "value" around the world.
 
Oh yeah, well here at 800€/mo you get a reasonable apartment
 
@MooingDuck I havent eaten mcnuggets in years :P usually I take a third pounder and double the meat + bacon, yummy :P
 
5:52 PM
I jokingly said to one of my Finnish colleagues "we pay a lot of taxes here". His reaction was "no you don't".
 
what's the taxes in Finland?
 
Semi fast food usually costs 8€, which is the value a Luncheon Voucher
 
here I get taxed close to 50% of my salary, then you add sales taxes on whatever you guy ~15% ... it adds up quickly :(
 
But it's getting shorter and we usually need to pull 10€.
 
@emartel Damn, you must be making a lot then.
 
5:54 PM
@kbok ok, then the 47K euros salary might be roughly comparable, I ASSUME you make more than that?
haha Etienne
I think you hit the highest tax bracket in the 50Ks
 
@emartel Not much more
 
@emartel Meh, closest IGDA chapter is 2 hours away in Detroit.
 
@kbok oh!
I thought you could make more money than that in finance, like that they'd throw you buckets of money
I'm disapointed
 
Hum, 47k is actually huge
 
@emartel 80k, actually. That's the highest bracket.
 
5:55 PM
really? :/ oops!
 
Outside of Paris a bad software developer gets 25k, a "normal" one 28-30k.
 
well, I'm in that bracket anyway hehe
 
@EtiennedeMartel my wife was furious when she realized she paid a whole 6% (we have 10% sales tax)
 
@MooingDuck wow!
 
At Dassault Systemes, the biggest company, guys coming from the best uni "polytechnique" make 35k
 
5:57 PM
@emartel then again she was well below minimum wage so...
 
@emartel And anyway, the 24% rate is only applied on the amount of money that's above that.
 
@kbok here a junior dev will earn between 40 and 45K... so our salaries might be a bit higher
40k cdn = 31k euros
 
@emartel Cost of living is also lower here.
 
@emartel Yep.
 
I don't even remember exactly how much money I was paying in taxes :(
I'll let you know in january when I go back to work :P
 
5:59 PM
@emartel only case that's done, internships ftw
 
hahaha
There are only two things you can't escape from: death, and taxes.
 

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