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6:00 PM
Damn.
 
@Borgleader was it you last internship?
 
@emartel I want to create 3d shooter, in my free time, doing mostly procedural generation ... any particular rendering/physics engines I should consider?
I'm reading up on Ogre3D right now
 
@robjb You mean the Singleton Heaven?
 
Depending on your target platform, Ogre is a good choice, Unity is also a very good choice
 
I made a 3D app in Ogre3D and it's really horrible
 
6:01 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Hmm?
 
Ell
@kbok why? specifically?
I also want to look into 3d :P
 
@robjb Ogre3D is full of singletons.
 
@EtiennedeMartel That doesn't sound very appealing tbh
 
I don't know much about "public engines"... in the past 8 years I worked on 3 engines : CryEngine, Assassin's Creed's Scimitar and Unreal Engine :P
 
I <3 UE
 
Ell
6:02 PM
it is full of singletons :/
but when you look past that
 
@emartel its the last one I did but I'll probably do another one before my BAC is done. Still unsure about masters...
 
Background: There were two apps, one where you created maps like architect plans (it was designed so that you can draw them on top of your existing plans) and another in which you can visit the building you created
@emartel CryEngine doesn't sound very appealing :)
 
What game(s) did you do with UE? (2.5 or 3.0?)
 
Singletons aren't that bad when used properly
 
@emartel The only thing I remember about Scimitar was the macros. Macros everywhere.
 
6:03 PM
I loved their toolkit when I was playing around with level design in high-school
 
@kbok it's the engine from Crytek : Far Cry / Crysis
 
The Unreal level editor was just awesome
 
@robjb I worked on crowd simulation middleware (UE3) and now Thief 4 (UE3)
their tools are pretty well made
 
The documentation is incomplete, the overall design is awkward, there are many things that don't work and you neither know why or how to troubleshoot
 
Thief 4 is on Unreal? Woa.
So, are we gonna get oil-like water then?
 
6:04 PM
but they're archaic compared to new engines :P
UE4 is pretty impressive
 
@emartel Yea, I'm jelly ... I wish I had a license to UE3
 
Dishonored is, too.
 
@EtiennedeMartel we have quite a few 3D programmers working on the looks of the game, don't worry :P
 
UE3 is new stealth engine apparently
 
@robjb yeah that's pretty expensive :P
 
6:04 PM
@CatPlusPlus UE3 is whatever engine.
You wanna make a game? Unreal can do it!
 
I wouldn't use it for a RTS :P
actors cost way too much
 
@emartel The tech demo from E3 blew my mind. PARTICLES :D
 
(As long as it fits Unreal formula ish)
 
In the end I wasted a tremendous amount of time on stupid stuff and when I feel like I have to wrestle with my backend I'm not happy.
 
@Borgleader it was pretty nice!
 
6:05 PM
@CatPlusPlus Dishonored is so fun :D
 
@emartel Yeah, RTS are a weird beast.
 
I really should go take a shower
 
Ell
ooh I have unreal installed
 
UDK is UE3
 
I've had UT2004 installed on my home PC since it was released lol
 
Ell
6:06 PM
have no clue how to use it
like at all :L
 
@robjb I heard it's short as fuck.
 
Dishonored looks like a modified Bioshock, no?
 
@emartel In some aspects yes, but doesn't play like one
 
Bioshock sucked in every way imaginable
 
6:07 PM
@EtiennedeMartel It is, but it has lots of replayability
 
but apparently Dishonoured is playable
 
I really didn't like Bioshock
 
@DeadMG Oh, fuck off, you only say that because you're disappointed it wasn't more like SS2.
 
I was constantly impressed with the amount of ways to accomplish a single task
 
I liked Bioshock's plot though. I recall thinking "Finally! Actual writing! In a video game!"
 
Ell
6:08 PM
bioshock 2 is really good, haven't played 1
@EtiennedeMartel yeah I love the style and story
 
Dishonored kind of looks like a steam punk with magic DXHR
 
I tried to do my first run all stealth ... once a guy noticed me and started a huge chase, and I got away by blinking onto a pipe and hiding under a bridge, then looping around behind them and using the door they just left unattended.
 
@MooingDuck: Once you solve RE, hopefully you will get stuck with TLE
 
@VinayakGarg oh, that was my last try, I gave up. I haven't the foggiest idea what the problem is.
@VinayakGarg I already wasted far too much work time working on the stupid thing.
 
@MooingDuck There are editorials available now. Also you can see others code.
 
6:10 PM
@VinayakGarg seeing others code won't find my bug
 
Ell
hmm not sure whether to use vs or mingw on windows
 
@Ell VS
 
Ell
why?
 
mingw is like ewww
 
@MooingDuck Right, so I should tell you in short - You were not supposed to use map. 2 vectors of size 500*2500 was sufficient.
One for voltage, one for parent. And your path-compression was good enough to do it in time limit.
 
6:13 PM
@VinayakGarg Yeah, now that I think on it again, I could remove the map entirely, it's completely irrelevant. (assuming the input is valid)
 
@MooingDuck O_o input is always (assumed to be) valid.
 
@VinayakGarg That much I was aware of. My problem was the runtime exception.
 
Ell
anyone ever used the Opus encoding?
 
@Ell Depends if your priority is to get OSS compatibility or not getting alienated :)
 
actually, I'll pull the map out and see if the bug was in that code by chance
 
6:15 PM
Want a test file? ;) Might help you debug. But I guess you are bored by now.
 
@Ell like std::thread? too bad, go find a mingw version that supports it, somewhat, or make it work yourself :)
 
ah, that wouldn't be fair to try again now
 
Ell
OSS is not my priority :P
I hate having to build everything anew for each compiler >.<
 
Then go VS and DirectX
 
@kbok *Direct3D
 
Ell
6:15 PM
I'll go VS and Ogre :P
 
Sorry, stuck in the old days :) D3D.
 
@MooingDuck Use C :p
 
@EtiennedeMartel I am, but that's not why it sucked.
 
@Ell Go UDK instead
 
let's face it, BioShock was like SS2 except in all the ways that mattered
 
6:17 PM
@VinayakGarg how would that help anything?
 
@Ell VS has pretty nice D3D debugging tools :)
 
Ell
@kbok you have to pay don't you?
 
369
Q: Proper use cases for Android UserManager.isUserAGoat()

Ovidiu LatcuI was looking at the new APIs introduced in Android4.2. While looking at the UserManager class I came across the following method : public boolean isUserAGoat () Used to determine whether the user making this call is subject to teleportations. Returns whether the user making this cal...

^^ WTF 369 in 9 hours.
 
@Ell Not if you don't make money with your game
 
Ell
ahh okay
 
6:18 PM
@MooingDuck That would simplify your complicated code. I was shocked when I saw your code, for a simple problem.
 
@DeadMG Then why?
 
UDK is better for someone who wants to script game types and build levels
it depends on your goal
 
@VinayakGarg easy to read, understand and debug. Still should be fast. I don't think non-OO would have been simpler.
 
do you want to learn game programming or build a game?
 
Ell
Both :P
 
6:19 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Because, not only did it have about zero original elements that were fun (which is fine by me) but it cut all the fun elements from SS2, and essentially ripped the entire plot too.
 
Do you want to die in agony or maybe earn some money probably
 
@Ell Also using a "real" 3D engine (UDK, Source, Cry) will score you a nice line in your CV whereas nobody gives a fuck about Ogre
 
@MooingDuck BTW few days ago, I faced a problem, where I really missed Big Integer in C++
 
Ell
Really?
 
@VinayakGarg but you had one in C? :P
 
6:19 PM
@CatPlusPlus the earning money is a very rare occurrence :P
 
Even rarer when you start with writing an engine for some inexplicable reason
 
@MooingDuck Uh?
 
Seriously, who is going to pay for Ogre3D knowledge
 
@kbok knowledge is knowledge
 
"The psi powers are now plasmids, except they're utterly generic and incredibly boring with silly gimmicks, and in addition, you have so much money there's no reason to make any choice about which you use."
 
6:20 PM
Guys who made Torchlight
 
and its better than "here's this website I made in ASP"
 
(Yeah, don't learn Ogre, it's horrible)
 
(Now) I hope Big Integer gets added to C++
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus yes! they use ogre & cegui right?
 
"The weapons are exceedingly generic, you can upgrade them again essentially for free, and there's nothing even remotely like weapon skills or stats."
 
6:21 PM
@emartel Sure, but given the choice, it's better to not go with Ogre, right ? Also Ogre sucks.
 
@VinayakGarg Yeah, I agree. Can codechef use boost? I don't recall. Boost has a bignum right?
 
"You can equip yourself with infinity tonics in every area instead of actually having to make a choice about which is best."
 
@MooingDuck Codechef uses SPOJ server (which is ideone). I hope you know it!
 
@VinayakGarg heard of it
 
@kbok well it depends on what you want, each project has different needs, you should do an analysis of available engines with their pros and cons before picking which one you're going with
 
6:22 PM
Oh, and, "We're a huge fan of scripted sequences taking away all the weapons and ammunition that you carefully stockpiled."
 
@VinayakGarg oh, ideone I know
 
@emartel Sure
 
Ogre cons: being Ogre
 
Ell
All I need is an engine that is easy to use :P
 
(Seriously, fuck singletons)
 
6:23 PM
hehhe
 
So you can even test on ideone.com, before submitting on codechef
 
Ell
and preferably cross platform
 
@Ell Unity3D seemed good.
 
Ell
how about irrlicht?
 
Oh, and "Respawning is free and there's a respawn chamber every Planck length."
 
6:25 PM
@Ell if you're just learning, you shouldn't care too much about which engine for now, just DO something
 
@VinayakGarg I feel like my path-compression wasn't good enough, and is probably related to my bug
 
Ell
yeah fair enough, I'll do Irrlicht :P
 
@DeadMG looks like you didn't like Bioshock :P
 
@MooingDuck Path compression is so simple, it is not possible. You know what, I will just run your code on my machine.
 
@DeadMG Right, so you're saying it's not enough like SS2?
 
6:28 PM
@EtiennedeMartel SS2?!
 
system shock 2
 
ah.
and which game is being compared to system shock 2?
 
Bioshock
 
@MooingDuck: This is interesting!

terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::logic_error'
what(): too many voltages
Program received signal SIGABRT, Aborted.
0x00007ffff753b425 in raise () from /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6
 
@VinayakGarg an older version of my code only allowed up to 2048 voltages in a single group. My most recent version removed that limit, and the expense of doubling the memory usage.
 
6:31 PM
@EtiennedeMartel No, I'm saying that not only did they utterly cock up "Being System Shock 2", but they also didn't offer anything else. Once you took away those fun elements, there was nothing left. What is BioShock if not a horrifically poor clone of SS2? Nothing. It doesn't have anything unique or different to offer. You can't say "Well, it's a poor clone of SS2, but they give you an awesome jetpack."
 
@MooingDuck I took your 1 hour old code. And why this limitation?
 
@VinayakGarg 21 bits for the connection number, 11 bits for voltage. Each "group" took 32 bits. I replaced with 32+32=64
 
Oh, true original fan angst. There's a trope for this.
 
@MooingDuck Oh boy, that's unnecessary complication
 
posted on November 14, 2012 by Eric Battalio

In windows embedded compact 2013, we are updating the native developer experience to the latest and greatest experience available via Visual Studio 2012. With this update, we are essentially bringing 2012 native desktop experience to embedded developers. This post details some of the key updates to the experience. Run time updates We are porting Visual C++ 11 runtime to run on the Windows Emb

 
6:35 PM
@VinayakGarg much less space ->much higher cache hit rate. I've since removed it
 
@MooingDuck "Premature optimization"
 
@DeadMG Erm. I assume you don't like shooters, then.
 
@VinayakGarg I checked to confirm the code from 1 hour ago didn't have this limitation. That means it thinks it rolled over 4294967296 voltages in one group
 
@EtiennedeMartel I enjoyed DX:HR and BF3 recently, and historically I've been a solid player of CS:S and RTCW:ET.
 
@VinayakGarg oh frick I know where the bug is!
 
6:37 PM
@DeadMG But which fun elements are you refering too? Disclaimer: I still haven't played SS2.
 
@MooingDuck That's not possible. N <= 1000000
 
@DeadMG I also thought Dishonored was fun, if not very long
 
@VinayakGarg if you add a wire from one "series of connected groups" to the same "series of connected groups" it doubles the total voltage! >.<
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well, let's see. In SS2, you have to actually choose what upgrades you want and what implants (tonics) you want to equip. In BioShock there's basically no choice because they all use different kinds of resources and you get an infinity of those resources anyway.
it's an RPG system where they give you essentially unlimited skill points.
 
Yeah, Bioshock is a FPS with some RPG elements, while SS2 is a true FPS RPG.
 
6:38 PM
@MooingDuck While checking others code, I think this was most common source of error
 
"some" RPG elements would imply "any" RPG elements.
oh, and here's another comparison
 
@DeadMG you had to buy ammo, right? does that count? :p
 
in BioShock there's like, 8 plasmids or something, and that's it.
in SS2 there are 35 psi skills
 
@VinayakGarg pft, in a contest that measures speed and memory usage? Hardly. it would have used a mere 4.7M in the worst case scenario.
 
and if you want to wield an assault rifle, you have to pay the same resource as you need for your psi skills, so you actually have to make a choice between which you want to use (until very late in the game, anyway).
 
6:40 PM
Yeah, Bioshock is more casual, from what I've heard.
 
@MooingDuck Memory is hardly a issue. There is lots of it. And now IIRC it is 1GB
 
there's a big difference between "More casual" and "Effectively entirely removed every single RPG mechanic."
at which point all you have left is "Point, click, walk."
 
oh god
 
@VinayakGarg less memory initializes faster and fits better in the cache -> faster still.
 
@DeadMG Yeah, to make it more of a shooter.
 
6:41 PM
my employer changed the insurance group plan
but I'm on sick leave
 
that would imply some actual interesting shooting mechanics, no?
 
it will be a pain in the ass to get everything fixed :(
booh.
 
but you effectively don't have to pick what weapon you want to use or what upgrades you want to get for it, because the resources are basically unlimited
 
@DeadMG Well, you do have limited ammo.
 
and there's no interesting weapons at all
 
6:42 PM
@VinayakGarg would this have passed?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Theoretically.
 
@CatPlusPlus yoes
 
in reality, you get about ten times as much as you actually need
 
@MooingDuck On codechef 99% time you just need to optimize asymptotically. If you need cache optimization, then your approach is faulty
 
and the game repeatedly takes away your entire stockpile, so there's no point conserving it, because even if you did save up a bunch of ammo, you'd just lose it for nothing.
 
6:43 PM
@VinayakGarg On codechef, 99% of the time I'm more concerned with my ranking than passing. cache optimizations get those last few milliseconds.
 
oh, and did I mention there are absolutely no different enemies whatsoever?
there's just "Splicer" and "Big daddy", and that's pretty much it.
 
later!
 
@MooingDuck ... which you don't need :p
 
@CatPlusPlus there's something weird with the linux build of kyro. it dists the executable to _dist/.../bin, the libvendor.so to _dist/.../lib64, but when running kyrostat, it looks for the libvendorlib.so in specifically build/vendor/....
 
@VinayakGarg well sure, but that's why I go to codechef instead of other sites. It rewards heavy optimizations
 
6:45 PM
@MooingDuck Hmm, good point
 
@DeadMG Agree on all points ... I hated Bioshock, and I've never even played SS2 :/
 
@MooingDuck For that people keep optimizing, but first they keep it simple and try to get an AC.
 
Ell
"If you use Version 6.0, select th..." hmm. Irrlicht docs are out of date :L
 
@VinayakGarg I haven't had this much trouble passing before :/
@VinayakGarg Did you test the code I linked? I'd feel guilty submitting it to codechef since you helped me :(
 
@Ell go pure D3D :D
 
Ell
6:49 PM
if I go pure anything, it's open gl :P
 
@MooingDuck That's for a reason :) Notice the 2 numbers
 
but D3D is actually pure! none of the meddling committee business :p
 
@DeadMG All right, all right, that does make sense. I guess you've managed to objectively show that Bioshock is a terrible game and that any person liking it has terrible tastes.
 
Ell
but I want linux support!
 
why?
 
6:51 PM
@Ell you can just use bacon-engine :3
 
Ell
bacon-engine? :P
 
@Ell yeah, I noticed that as well
 
@Ell kyrostats engine. only problem is I think it hasn't even been started. :)
 
well
 
6:51 PM
the only one of us who actually knew OpenGL seems to have died of a heart attack
 
haha
 
if it was Windows-only and we could go D3D then maybe
 
@melak47 You mean, that big pile of nothing?
 
maybe what
 
@DeadMG What? So is this heaven or hell? Doesn't seem much different from before...
 
6:52 PM
@melak47 It's actually not a joke. The guy dropped right off the face of the Interwebs.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes nah, the big pile of nothing is kyrostat. bacon is only a small pile of nothing .)
@DeadMG :X
 
@JerryCoffin the only one working on Kyrostat
 
@melak47 Then maybe I could do it.
 
@MooingDuck Oh, okay.
 
@JerryCoffin That was smooth.
 
6:53 PM
ah. well I never got around to learning openGL...nows as good a time as any I guess :p
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Thanks!
 
man
I wish Domagoj would come back
 
@MooingDuck That works! :D
 
Ell
@DeadMG who was it? I remember it being cat o.O
but hes here
 
I got as far as making opengl clear the backbuffer, that's something right?!
 
6:55 PM
@VinayakGarg I even checked that it was correct when connecting two groups for the first few submissions, but then optimized how voltages work, and added that bug :(
 
@melak47 Something, yes. Much of something, sorry, but no.
 
aw :P
 
@VinayakGarg does this pass and how's it compare speed-wise to the previous? (This is the one only alllowing 2048 voltages)
 
@Ell Domagoj.
 
@MooingDuck So Donald Knuth is correct.
 
Ell
6:56 PM
ohh. what was that about an execution?
 
@MooingDuck Aren't you going to submit now?
 
well, primarily the way in which he dropped off the face of the planet
even his company's website is elapsed
 
@VinayakGarg was getting a TLE, had to optimize that part
 
basic opengl shouldn't be that hard though, right? as far as I recall we don't really need skinned meshes or anything..so just more or less straight forward vertex buffer objects, shaders, and stuff
 
@VinayakGarg can't, I got your help :( That'd be cheating
 
6:58 PM
@melak47 Yeah, pretty much -- well, at least OpenGL doesn't demand much more than that. Whether your game does or not I have no clue.
 
@MooingDuck do a mind meld so you count as 1 person, then submit it :)
 
@MooingDuck That's not. Where did I exactly help you. And it is going in practice section anyway.
You don't want to leave it incomplete?
 
@VinayakGarg you told me which exception is firing
 

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