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3:00 PM
@EtiennedeMartel mandatorycasual/hardcore/DFfunpic.jpg
 
@BartekBanachewicz Presumably that coin gave a good head
@EtiennedeMartel gaymer
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol
or tail #oblivious
 
@EtiennedeMartel Actually, I ran out of stereotypical bullshit to parrot.
 
@EtiennedeMartel you're taking it all too seriously
 
I need to read more stupid arguments about this.
 
3:01 PM
And lol look who said that :D
 
@BartekBanachewicz You are.
We're both joking.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes hey we knew that already
 
@BartekBanachewicz whistle
 
I'm not a gamer cdon't call me that
 
@BartekBanachewicz yep
@CatPlusPlus gaymer
 
3:02 PM
Also I hate search
And Haystack
 
@CatPlusPlus gaystack
@CatPlusPlus cis urge cisearch
 
@EtiennedeMartel Actually, DF isn't too buggy for a game still in development.
 
@CatPlusPlus what about needles?
 
it's been in dev for how many years now?
Also @r.m
Are you still up for that CG DSL idea?
 
I mean, yes, every 0.xx.0 release is buggy, but it always gets stable around 0.xx.10 (usually ~1 month later). It's just yet another beta-release cycle.
 
3:04 PM
@BartekBanachewicz how dare you cuss at me, fuck you!
 
Because I think I'd like it in Glisha
 
:P
 
And since I either failed or passed my exam, I'm going to have some time to work at it
especially considering Jefff wants to give Glisha a real-world try
(we really need to alias "robor" to plink)
 
I'm back dear citizens :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz 12, and Toady expects it to take at least another 17.
 
3:07 PM
lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes how actively does he work on it though?
 
But it's not 12 years like DNF.
 
is DF not a game that gets new features all the time?
 
@thecoshman Full time job.
@AlexM. Yes.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes huh...
 
3:07 PM
doesn't that sort of mean the development never ends?
it's like, say, a MMORPG
 
It's 12 years of one-man development, not 12 years of full team development hell.
 
gets new content until it dies
 
@AlexM. No. He just has a lot of content planned.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes does he say what?
 
Current release is 0.40.13, and the minor number is meant to represent percentage of completion, so it's 40% done. The previous release, 0.34, was 34% complete, and so on.
@thecoshman Yes. It's all on the official page.
 
3:10 PM
is it common to make a GUI in a high level language, then make the intensive processes call C/C++ functions?
 
@corvid Typically you'd write everything in a high-level language.
C++ is also a high-level language.
 
@corvid sort of
see MVC
 
You start with everything as simple as you can manage. And then you optimize where you need to. (That is to say, where your profiler tells you do.)
 
so I just wrote it badly?
 
3:12 PM
@corvid Only use two languages if you need to
If you can write everything in your HLL of choice, do it.
Don't prematurely optimize.
2
 
@corvid maybe not.
probably though
 
it's "working", it's just slow and not smooth enough. I might have just written it poorly, it's seam carving
 
@EtiennedeMartel did anyone proclaim it's not a proper civ game if it's not hard?
 
@hyde I would even go so far and argue that learning to deal with new and delete is only useful if you have to maintain legacy code bases. There is absolutely no need to learn about them otherwise, not even late; you would just be burning precious brain cycles for zero benefit. — FredOverflow 1 min ago
discuss
@BartekBanachewicz Don't mature pre-optimized.
 
@FredOverflow no, you are right.
 
3:17 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Where is that from?
 
@corvid "Working" is the #1 best place to start. Fire up a profiler and find out what's slowest. Figure out a way to make it faster. Test it. If it's faster, commit it.
 
(Oh noes, not that argument again): see this answer (and perhaps the accompanying discussion for explanation: build-dep just gets the dependencies, and these will be 99% unchanged. It's ok! You can use this. — sehe 13 secs ago
 
Xeo
k, so. List of options in order of preferrability:
(- everything being fine and the world being ponies and unicorns)
- filing bankruptcy
- being just the guarantor
- actually somehow take on the loan myself on their behalf.
Other options?
 
- everything being fine and the world not being ponies and unicorns
 
wait what
the world isn't ponies and unicorns?
 
Xeo
3:21 PM
Yeah no. If this situation somehow gets turned around without me being involved, there have to be ponies and unicorns.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit No. There's also rainbows and pots of gold!
 
@Xeo did you consider selling kidneys?
@FredOverflow to be sure
 
25K Euros huh?
 
Xeo
ye
Is what they said in the texts, anyways
 
@Xeo Not putting yourself in financial risk to bail out your parents from a debt hole
 
user3010322
3:23 PM
Can't you just die with your debts and then they all default?
 
You have literally zero obligation to do that
 
user3010322
Is there any way for them to essentially take the absolute minimum monthly payment?
 
@CatPlusPlus some people care about people
 
I'm assuming that you're not reliant on your parents. Is this correct?
 
@OmnipotentEntity I'm kind of wondering, at what point do you make the jump that you need to move to a different language to achieve what you want?
 
3:24 PM
It's not about not caring about people, it's about not fucking yourself up because someone else fucked up
 
@CatPlusPlus no I get that, but it's not just some random people.
 
//allocate strings many bytes longer than required of suffer segmentation faults
 
They're adults, they can own up to their mistakes
 
@corvid What language are you using?
 
3:25 PM
@Xeo depending on how likely they are to be able to afford to pay it off, bankruptcy maybe the best option.
 
@Xeo I don't get it, are your parents in trouble?
 
@thecoshman Robor almost kinda jokingly did.
 
@OmnipotentEntity python
 
Either way, they'll probably need money from you.
 
3:25 PM
Asking your children to put themselves in debt to pay off your debt is a shitty thing to do
 
@EtiennedeMartel he would :P
 
Xeo
@OmnipotentEntity Correct.
 
@CatPlusPlus that's option 1. already stated.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I hate lousy document titles like thesis.pdf
 
@CatPlusPlus and abandoning you parents is too.
 
3:26 PM
Why doesn't the file have the title in the name? Or at least something resembling the title.
 
@corvid When ctypes and various other speed ups (such as precompiling) don't cut it anymore.
 
@FredOverflow INSTALL.EXE
 
Conclusion: We need ponies and unicorns
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit more like program.exe
 
Do transform matrices operating on images inherently make it more efficient?
 
3:26 PM
exe.exe
 
remember win.exe?
g++ windows.cpp -o windows.exe
 
@thecoshman Not taking their debts on yourself is not abandonment
 
@corvid is performance a problem?
 
the good old days
 
@TonyTheLion That should be easy:
class Unicorn extends Pony
{
    private Horn horn;
}
 
3:27 PM
@CatPlusPlus Leaving your family to become destitute is
Family is supposed to support family in times of need
inb4 "prescriptivism sucks"
 
I'd help if I could but I certainly wouldn't indebt myself to do that
 
he doesn't have to take on their debts, but not even considering it for one moment is the sort of thing Vlad would do
 
@Xeo In that case, I'll reiterate my previous advice. Don't lend them money unless you're willing to lose it without regret. 25K is a lot. And family relations will be completely fucked up if they can't pay it back. Ultimately, you know your parents better than we do, so you can better quantify that risk, but if they're trying to get a loan for Gastronomy, then it doesn't sound good to begin with.
 
@BartekBanachewicz yes, I want it to update very quickly, because the user transforms it in real time. Should there be some subterfuge to make it look like it's doing the operation, but it doesn't actually do it until the user sets it in place?
 
user3010322
Vlad Putin from Moscow?
 
3:28 PM
52 mins ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit
If it's just a year or so, from what you've told me then I would give your parents a chance to make their cool restaurant work, since you can afford to. But be prepared to lose your investment and give up that buffer creation for a year, because you very well may have to.
;p
@ThePhD sure why nogt
 
Esp that this is a business, so they knew the risks
 
@corvid You didn't answer my question. Is your current application too slow?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yeah, it's the smartest advice.
 
"they knew the risks therefore they are not entitled to any help from anyone ever"
 
1 min ago, by Cat Plus Plus
I'd help if I could but I certainly wouldn't indebt myself to do that
 
3:29 PM
yeah it is slower than I'd like it to be
 
that's like saying you shouldn't breathe air because you know you might get lung cancer
 
You're not reading
 
@OmnipotentEntity we is smarts
 
You're not in Reading
 
@ThePhD Vlad is the short name of Vladislav :P
 
3:30 PM
@corvid have you profiled?
 
user3010322
You don't need to profile to know you're running at 16 FPS.
 
@ProblemSolver Vladimir
 
I've been using cProfile for the methods, yeah
 
@ThePhD Hell, with a frame rate that low you can just count them
 
Profiling is not for saying "yep this is slow"
 
3:30 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit nope.
 
@corvid and?
 
Things being slow are usually noticeable
 
Profiling is answering the question "what is slow"
 
3:31 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Didn't get you :P
 
@ThePhD that's not the point of profiling uh
 
You butte
 
@ProblemSolver and you never will
muahaha
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit uhm... you know, I think I know a bit more about Russian names than you
 
3:31 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I expected this reply
 
@Abyx oh yes just because you are Russian you magically know more about Russian names than anyone you randomly meet on the internet whose knowledge you know nothing about
Russian logic
I could be a fucking academic expert on the timeless history of the name, for all you know
Living on a street with three Vlads on it doesn't make you an expert
@ProblemSolver ;p
 
@ThePhD No, but you do need to profile if you want to accurately know why you're running at 16FPS, which is required for properly addressing the problem.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you have a point here, but you're just wrong that "vlad" can be short for "vladimir"
 
1 min ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit
(nope)
@Abyx, you are terrible at Lounge.
 
Lounge<Terrible>
 
3:33 PM
So according to Elasticsearch 'l' comes after 'z'
 
Vladivostok?
 
Also sometimes chat eats my message when I press Enter what the fuck
 
Actually, taking this further, if I know someone called Vladimir and I decide to call him Vlad, then "Vlad" is now short for "Vladimir". I don't need some nerd on the internet to tell me that's okay or not
 
@CatPlusPlus In some unordered alphabet, maybe yes
 
@CatPlusPlus Noticed it recently here too.
 
3:34 PM
@Abyx +1000 Thanks for supportimng in the battle against that .. "Orbit" :P
 
Besides, it's clearly a leading substring so by that point alone you're wrong
 
@CatPlusPlus same here
 
However, yes, historically & traditionally this has not been done.
 
Very well coded
good job
 
@CatPlusPlus I had that problem a while ago
 
3:35 PM
@ProblemSolver you're not in a battle, you're just a twat
 
predictable flag was predictable
 
> You cannot counterflag your own message
sigh
why even display the popup then.
 
yes being able to counterflag your own message would make sense
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit the thing is that historically "Vladimir" was shortened from "Volodimir". that's why here in Russia we shorten "Vladimir" to "Volodya" and never shorten it to "Vlad" because it's just a different name (Vladislav).
 
Oh for fuck's sake
 
3:36 PM
er, so you know you've been flagged?
 
2 mins ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit
However, yes, historically & traditionally this has not been done.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That image makes me horny.. hope you would change someday :P
 
Ascending order
 
@ProblemSolver You want me to put more clothes on?
 
3:36 PM
good job
 
@CatPlusPlus 1 comes before a
 
According to wikipedia:

Vlad is a male given name, sometimes short for Vladislav or Vladimir.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit l you butte
 
wikipedia always such reliable source
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit but it still displays the links for (in)validation
 
3:37 PM
Very
 
@CatPlusPlus 2 girls with L cups
@BartekBanachewicz that bit is silly
 
@CatPlusPlus looks like a 1 here
 
@TonyTheLion actually it doesn't
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Perhaps I should put something like as well , to get more popularity here :P
 
I'd start by putting the keyboard away
 
3:38 PM
@ProblemSolver You should only use an avatar depicting yourself, or a non-human. Otherwise you're just a fraud.
 
So I recently found out about this band.
 
I might start flagging messages. It looks like so much fun!
 
Xeo
My brain tells me: Abandon ship, don't take on debts, fuck debts, debts are the worst.
Too bad problems aren't solved with just that
 
@EtiennedeMartel ok
 
> For portable behaviour with respect to graceful closure of a connected socket, call shutdown() before closing the socket.
Fuck you, asio.
 
3:39 PM
Fuck you, asiohole.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'd sue you if I were that booby girl :D
 
@ProblemSolver Huh? You can't sue yourself, dumbass
Thanks for appreciating my "assets", though!
You're sweet
 
FFS, why can't close() call shutdown() anyway?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes because TCP.
 
3:41 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit My apologies for harming your "dignity" :P
 
> eat sleep money sex
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because you might want to wait for the shutdown to complete before you close the socket, and you don't want close() to block for an uncontrollable duration
 
this tells a lot about a person ain't it
 
@ProblemSolver np
@EtiennedeMartel haha
 
3:42 PM
@EtiennedeMartel 4chan is the cesspit of the internet, it's a necessary evil... but occasionally it gets backed up and spills sewage into the yard.
 
@BartekBanachewicz "eat_sleep_money_sex" is my C++ constant :P
 
@ProblemSolver Your tongue's gonna get all dry and shit.
 
@EtiennedeMartel You can't reeassign the C++ constant man :D
 
@ProblemSolver that doesn't make sense at all
 
wait... who is this... "4 Chan"??
 
user3010322
3:45 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Makes you wish most classes rolled a DefaultShutdownTimeout so you wouldn't block for an eternity.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You know those crazy Jacky Chan fans? They would do everything... 4 Chan.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yea,, Perhaps it should be declared as an array :P
 
user3010322
@FredOverflow You're officially worse than @Borgleader.
 
@ProblemSolver Arrays aren't any more constant than non-arrays.
 
@FredOverflow Well let's add an appropriate exception to our C++ compiler :P
 
3:46 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit A well known hacker.
 
@EtiennedeMartel this 4chen and redit things are sad
@ProblemSolver that would be an extension, not an exception.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Then it raises the question of why is there no async_close, given in the "AS" in ASIO. (Or an async_shutdown if that would more useful)
 
Ship all MRAs into the sun
 
exception it's doing something you can't do but you want ,
 
@ProblemSolver no, it's completely not that.
 
3:48 PM
Because it shutdown can block indefinitely, it's in the wrong in place in ASIO.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Come on man, , Let's check out an English dictionary
 
@ProblemSolver constexpr you mean?
 
@FredOverflow well done
 
> The server chips are the first to support the faster-performing DDR4 memory and 40GB ethernet.
ohh shiny
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes it does
 
3:49 PM
@ProblemSolver Why don't you go and read the whole C++ standard while we're at it
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I didn't say shutdown can block indefinitely
@R.MartinhoFernandes I said you may want to wait for something to happen after you invoke shutdown(), and if it's run inside close() then in such a situation you have no alternative but to block inside close()
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes There is not? That seems a bit stupid if the lot gets blocked for a four-way handshake?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think this is why ASIO has a way to "one-sidedly" or "two-sidedly" close down the socket. Not sure whether there's a way to do it async though
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You might not want to do the termination handshake
 
@sehe that sounds like what he wants
 
3:50 PM
@BartekBanachewicz .... I though we're talking about English language
 
@ProblemSolver well, it's not that in the English language either
 
exception = a person or thing that is excluded from a general statement or does not follow a rule.
 
"doing something you can't do but you want" doesn't even make sense
 
Fuck C++
 
@ProblemSolver better
 
3:51 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Well it's a network operation, so it might
 
@MartinJames ikr
 
@ProblemSolver now you started making sense
 
user3010322
@Xeo I'm in a similar position, but with my brothers and sisters. I don't make enough money to cancel out all their debts, but in the end they were the ones who were irresponsible. They'll have to put on their Big Kid pants and talk to the bank and come up with a minimum payment plan that won't sink them. =/
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Fair enough. The same applies to "block for a long time", though.
 
Google and life are the best teachers :P
 
3:52 PM
@ProblemSolver no.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Like robot says, it's remarkably moronic if closing a socket requires a blocking call in a supposedly AS environment. Madness.
 
If it's a potentially blocking operation, I want a way to async it. That would, say, let me start the graceful procedure and have a timer running to just axe it if it takes longer than I can afford.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes like I said before - because in TCP you just send a notification that you want to stop reading or writing and then you destroy socket data with "close()"
 
user3010322
@Xeo It sucks, but really all you're doing at that point is spreading the misery. The most you could do is promise to contribute X amount of runoff income to their pockets to help with the monthly payments. This, of course, means you'll be straggling, but that's probably the closest thing to feasible you can do for yourself.
 
@BartekBanachewicz add arguments into controller man
 
user3010322
3:54 PM
Otherwise, not much left to do but sympathize and hope you don't make the same mistake. :(
 
you should use a top-level protocol to handle connection closing properly
 
@MartinJames Right, which is why they don't do it.
@MartinJames Thus answering the original question.
 
@ThePhD Hey, you're really got a PhD ?
 
user3010322
@ProblemSolver Yes, in being an idiot.
 
@Abyx It's not an internal protocol :(
 
3:54 PM
@Abyx Termination handshake does acks too
 
ThePhD couldn't get a PhD in flipping burgers no offence
 
user3010322
I probably couldn't, actually.
 
If you want to just tear the connection down without waiting you just call close
 
@CatPlusPlus but they are not mandatory IIRC (for termination)
 
@Abyx No top-level protocol can shutdown low-level interactions
 
user3010322
3:55 PM
I'd probably burn myself more times than I could flip the burger.
 
@ProblemSolver no
 
Just like you can't implement atomics without OS support
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Great, Please Don't follow his steps
 
@ProblemSolver ok
@Abyx what no
@Abyx lern 2 tcp
 
@Abyx afaik they are, otherwise you just send a single RST and forget about the connection
 
3:56 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Don't wanna see the fatty lady like this one
 
FINs need to be acknowledged
 
we don't need that, thank you.
 
Oh for fuck's sake
 
I flagged that one.
get it off my screen.
 
Coffee and popcorn time.
 
3:57 PM
now.
 
1 message moved to bin
 
flagboot it
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Im' sorry for making your evening :P
 
I love how it's still flagged
 
user3010322
3:57 PM
+ terrible
 
@ProblemSolver and by "evening", you mean mid-afternoon in a busy office, yes?
 
Don't do this shit tia
 
Okay I've changed my mind let's get rid of this guy
 
Also wtb kick reasons
 
@BartekBanachewicz well that's a little extreme
 
3:58 PM
@CatPlusPlus butt
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's just my opinion vOv
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well I know that
@BartekBanachewicz your opinion is a little extreme, is what I'm saying
 

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