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9:04 AM
@melak47 ooHHHH
@melak47 I'm jealous!!
where did u buy it?
 
ebay :S
but it actually shipped :)
~300€ +19% taxes
still worth it, compared to the ~500€ for the Dell U2711
 
Hi guys
 
hi
 
does it have hdmi?
 
nope, DVI only
 
9:07 AM
I read somewherethat they only have dual dvi..
then you need two cables
 
nah
 
humm
 
it's just a different cable
 
my gtx470 would have two
 
that does double the datarate
 
9:08 AM
but one with two end points at each, right?
 
nope
nvidia cards have had dual link dvi ports for a while
AMD as well, I guess, but I wouldn't know
 
ah.. does my gtx470?
 
yes, both of them are dual link
 
Well I still do not understand the point of dvi since we have hdmi.
 
isn't it just historical reasons?
dvi is older than hdmi, and so, hardware exists which only supports that. And so you have to keep supporting it
 
9:12 AM
so need to get some stuff done
bye
 
@Nils do you know which version HDMI your card supports? I don't know if all versions of HDMI can drive 2560x1440@60Hz...
bye :)
sweet, OpenGL 4.3 runs on dx11 hardware :)
 
I need a better wireless reception for my laptop, does someone know where I can get such a thing ?
I mean like an adapter and a good antenna
 
do you have reason to believe your laptops antenna is crap, and not the signal in general?
 
I figured that with a directional antenna the signal would get better, amirite ?
 
not necessarily
I mean, for one, you'd have to be pretty certain it was pointed in the correct direction
 
9:21 AM
And yes, the signal is crap. There's like 25+ wireless routers in range.
@DeadMG This is the easy part, I know where the router is
 
kbok, where do you live? you could try using a channel that's not usually used in your country
for example, I believe US devices are not usually configured to use channel 13
but you might not be able to make your router use that channel easily. or your laptops antenna
 
Hmm, yes I could try that.
(I live in France)
 
hm, then you pretty much have all channels available already
1-13
so, is it the distance, something blocking the signal in between, or just the interference from other networks?
 
9:38 AM
It's quite near so I think it's the obstacles (there's one floor and two walls), and the other routers
I thought having a directional antenna would help reducing the interferences
 
you could try building a cantenna
 
I could try indeed :)
 
the diameter of the can is important though, so you should look up a guide if you want to do that
 
Yeah, I have a friend who made one
 
erm... why not cable?
 
9:52 AM
pff
where's the fun in that
 
it's the smart solution
 
Well it's my neighbour's wifi, and I don't feel like making a hole in the wall :)
I also don't feel like paying 50+ bucks for an internet connection plus the 100+ bucks required for installation since I'll be staying for 4 months
OTOH a good antenna would be a long-term investment :)
 
@thecoshman right, but that would take effort, which is absent? from the vacuum water glass situation. Well, I don't know really, and I feel very stupid now :(
 
@kbok :P ah, the old steeling wi-fi trick
 
@thecoshman Actually I asked'em directly. I couldn't be bothered to install all that cracking cruft.
 
@rubenvb well, it's an odd situation, as the vacuum has suddenly appeard
 
> Wild vacuum appears!
 
@kbok oh those fiends "sure you can 'borrow' our internet... fyi, we have lined the walls in your direction with 10 inch lead"
@R.MartinhoFernandes it used suck... it was supper effective
 
10:13 AM
@thecoshman "suck"/"supper" is there a pun ?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lulz
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes nubbery
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Damn, I was just about to post that!
 
@kbok I probably spelt something wrong :P
 
10:14 AM
I saw that yesterday already, it's old now
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
Well, the wild appearance of vacuum is feasable
 
Ell
Hi all
 
sbi
1 min ago, by thecoshman
@kbok I probably spelt something wrong :P
1 min ago, by Tony The Lion
I saw that yesterday already, it's old now
A classic.
 
10:16 AM
wut?
 
Ell
what 3d engine does kyrostat use? or is it just opengl?
 
sbi humor
 
@sbi spelled...
 
@Ell OpenGL != a 3D engine
 
I don't get it :(
 
sbi
10:17 AM
@TonyTheLion In absence of explicit references, I usually assume a message to refer to the latest one.
 
@sbi oh I see, no my message referenced the pic posted by Robot
the reference was implicit
 
@sbi Yeah, Stross tweeted it.
 
How's sha2 solver puppy (@DeadMG) ?
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion There were a dozen messages between yours and the one you "implicitly referred" to! How are we supposed to know?
 
@TonyTheLion bah.
 
10:19 AM
Sounds like progress.
 
sbi
The SHA2 Solver Puppy from hell.
 
@sbi lol, magic. I don't know, just guess :/
@DeadMG wow, says a lot
 
it would be a significant effort for me to patch it up.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes You mean in so far as he seems to come around to a rational view at the whole thing (i.e.: it's futile) that we had all along?
 
and I'm in one of those moods where I recently looked at my prospect of gaining employment
 
10:21 AM
and?
 
can't be a good mood then
 
what's the prospect look like?
 
Dammit, I'll need to think to solve this bug. I don't wanna. :(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes trying hitting it
 
Damn. Merging versions. What in the world could be more boring ?
I've been at it since 9:30 AM.
 
10:28 AM
man, WTF just happened, this chat just went offline completely for me
but my internetz was still working
how da fuq?
 
nah, people just stopped talking :P
 
no, I couldn't post any messages
 
oh, that is odd
 
neither could I go to the domain chat.stackoverflow.com
 
Oh, the horror.
 
10:29 AM
it just got wiped off the map for like a minute or something
yes, the horror, how can I live without this room? :P
 
¬_¬ you hackzing?
or did you?
 
or did you?
 
probably just some DNS issue
 
Perforce sucks.
 
10:31 AM
or kazering the servorz
 
indeed
 
I wish that everything and everyone perforce-related be banished to the outer ring.
> If we use 1 torvalds as a unit of hacker irascibility, then the comments never rose above about 300-400 millitorvalds.
 
Ell
does anyone know of that tool used to make source code directories into a .deb?
 
I thought it was a build system feature
 
10:39 AM
@Ell well, adding 'source code' would be no different to any other file or folder in a .deb (I have no idea about making packages btw )
 
Ell
got it, it's checkinstall
@thecoshman yeah it isn't, I didn't really phrase my question very well, but I got it now so :)
 
bad
 
Ell
Right, time to learn how to make .debs properly :D
 
@Ell if you find a good guide to it, please do share
 
@DeadMG What?
 
10:49 AM
27 mins ago, by Tony The Lion
what's the prospect look like?
 
Xeo
Bad robot, you overlooked an hour old question that was tagged but not :P
Did your tag regex fail you?
 
@DeadMG Oh, that was late.
 
server error when I tried to send it
 
@Xeo I haven't been looking at questions.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes What, no scheduled job in the background of your wired brain?
 
10:51 AM
28 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Dammit, I'll need to think to solve this bug. I don't wanna. :(
You can interpret that as either "I'm busy" or "I'm lazy".
 
Xeo
heh
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Both.
 
(Scott Meyers) ….the results are undefined, and we all know what "undefined" means: it means it works during development, it works during testing, and it blows up in your most important customers' faces.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Who cares about squirrels? [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [fun]
 
you know what really annoys me
when you have a show that airs on a regular date but on some utterly random week, it fails to air
now I'm stuck in this mode where I'm expecting to receive TV, but there's none forthcoming
 
11:03 AM
Do stuff instead.
 
Ell
does anyone here use debain packages?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes But it's so much le effort.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes is that brown or red squirrels? [fun]
 
@Ell who doesn't? (assuming debain => debian)
 
Ell
windoze peeps :L
does anyone happen to know if .as and .sos go in a *-dev package?
 
11:10 AM
why would Windows people know that?
 
.so, no, they're needed to actually run things, not just develop against them.
 
Men I ran into some problem.
 
@NeelBasu really !!!
 
I've several free classes
that I want to put in namespace Now
 
Ell
Right okay, so there needs to be a regular package with the .so's and a -dev package with the stuff needed to build the .so's ?
 
11:11 AM
I am using KDevelop4
is there any good refactoring kind of tool ? in KDevelop There is a rename tool.
but is there any good tool that puts existing classes in namespace ?
I've 16 classes :P
 
oh noes, a whole 16 classes
 
Xeo
@NeelBasu It's called foresight, and puts them in a namespace at creation :P
 
Refactoring tool for C++? Ha. Nice joke.
 
how will you live by simply sticking them in a namespace manually
 
@Damian now If Itry manually rewritting it will get messed up easily
 
11:13 AM
@NeelBasu Visual Assist X for Visual Studio can refactor. Sorry only on Windows
 
Afternoon
 
@Damian Well I've an windows on VM that have VS 2010 Premium
I can copy paste the directory in that VM and run
 
6
Q: Tools for C code refactoring

PuppeWhat tools are there that supports refactoring C code (renaming variables, extracting methods, finding method references, ...) Preferably for a Linux environment, but Windows tools are ok too. If there's something available for emacs, even better!

 
Xeo
@NeelBasu Why? Put them in namespaces, compile, fix where the errors tell you.
 
@Ell nope they don't (unless it is dev-only package)
 
11:15 AM
@Xeo you meant put a big namespace{} in header and a biiiiiiig namespace{} in cpp ?
 
@Ell Nope. The stuff needed to use them. So libmypackage for the so, libmypackage-dev for the includes (aka headers) and perhaps utility binaries and other resources.
 
Xeo
@NeelBasu using namespace X; in .cpp works too, though I wouldn't recommend it :P
 
@NeelBasu Depends on your scope.. big namespace{} in cpp maens that the code can oly be seen in that .cpp file
 
@Xeo there is one conflicting name
:P
 
Xeo
Well, you could've already done half the classes instead of complaining here
 
11:17 AM
@Xeo And hope no ADL fucks up.
 
now its feeling shameful, last Mon day I couldn't get any good namespace name so I put them as free classes. and now I cannot manage them .
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes ADL would rather not fuck up now, would it?
Normal unqualified name lookup could
@NeelBasu Good, you learned something.
Even if the name's temporary, put it in a namespace
It's much easier to search&replace the namespace name than put the stuff in namespaces afterwards
 
@Xeo no the bad thing is I've already learnt the same ago several times.
 
Xeo
Then I don't have a comment without sounding mean.
 
What can I do If nobody can propose me a good name for namespace ?
 
11:19 AM
Grab a bad one.
That's what I do.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes then ?
 
Xeo
1 min ago, by Xeo
It's much easier to search&replace the namespace name than put the stuff in namespaces afterwards
 
@Xeo right you are
@Damian So I need to add name:: with all class/method definitions in cpp. ?
I cannot reliably do using namespace
because there is one conflicting name .
 
Wow, a chat at stackoverflow
 
been here for a couple years
 
Xeo
11:23 AM
> This position, based near Frankfurt in Germany, calls for Java and C++ experience in the context of high availability near Real Time applications.
 
sbi
Never mess with a porcupine.
3
 
yes you can try an anonymous namespace first if you don't want to use the code from anywhere else than inside of the same cpp.
namespace {
class A{}
}
 
@sbi Owch.
 
Xeo
@Damian He didn't say anything about anonymous namespaces
he only left out the namespace name because he doesn't know a good one
@sbi She became the porcupine
 
@Ockonal Welcome.
 
11:25 AM
I need to use the code outside that cpp
 
sbi
@Xeo Except that porcupines have their head free, and the stings everywhere else, and this dog has it the pother way around.
 
as for the nameof the namespace I refer to Dewurst.. if you don't know a good name when you design then you did not think hard enough or understand the problem domain.. ;-)
 
sbi
@Damian That goes for all identifiers.
 
Xeo
@sbi new species, inverse porcupine!
 
11:26 AM
@Damian That really doesn't apply to root namespaces.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes OK, so you want to name it MySuperLibrary in all header files, with a possible embedded namespace called impl, smartstuff, etc. etc.
Just keep the names short since they will fill up in your editor when you use them.. abreviations are good. MSL = MySuperLibrary ...
 
@Damian Really? Abbreviations are bad since they cause they will enliken collisions. Namespace aliases for your editing convenience
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Thanks ;)
 
// in cpp:
namespace MSL = boost::contrib::MySuperLibrary;
 
Guys, I'm developing resource manager for my game. It should load resource, cache them and return pointer by passed key. I'm using a few maps which handles different resources types and a few functions for each stored type. How bad is that? In other words, I have ~3 functions which do the same but with different types.
 
11:32 AM
What does a "resource manager" do?
What "managing" does your resources need?
What you're describing is a cache, not a "manager". So name it ResourceCache, not ResourceManager
 
MagicCachingResourceLoader
 
@jalf allocated memory or other resource.. please use patterns in your design
 
@jalf For example, in level file of the game resources are described in a way: "SomeTitle" => "Media/img.png"
In code there is: ResourceManager::Fetch<Texture>("SomeTitle");
 
@Damian huh?
 
@Ockonal Is that a factory pattern you are trying to implement?
 
11:35 AM
Please don't use patterns in your design.
 
@Damian Are you serious? You are everything that's wrong with the "patterns" movement".
 
@CatPlusPlus Why not?
 
Especially "I don't even know what my class does so I call it 'manager'" pattern.
4
Why is it in the class if it's static anyway?
 
Design patterns are fine to use when they match what you need. But what you are suggesting is "you must have patterns*, you must find some patterns to inject into your code, you must find a use for these patterns"
that is insane
 
@Damian Hm, let me read about factory
 
11:36 AM
@jalf or for a cache use a small map and see if you called it before then give bacj the result if is is in the map
 
Xeo
@Ockonal You don't want a factory, you want a resource cache
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus you mean as opposed to a free function?
 
@Ockonal: my point is that "Manager" classes never ever make sense. It's a sloppy "I haven't really thought about what this class should do, so I'll name it a manager" kind of thing
 
@Xeo Yeah, maybe you know some example realization?
 
11:37 AM
Any time you consider making a "manager" class, ask youself "but what does it actually do?" and when you have the answer to that, rename the class
 
@Ockonal in a factory you have an abstract class as interface (or API) and then you implement the different types.. when you add or remove types your api does not need to change
 
your code will get much healthier
 
@jalf I always heard this, that 'manager' is a bad idea to call the class. But I don't agree
 
@jalf yes, I agree manager is a to generic name
 
When you change your wonderful abstract class you break the ABI.
This isn't Java. Don't write Java in C++.
 
11:38 AM
@jalf LogManager, the title doesn't say what class work with?
 
@CatPlusPlus yes, so you need to think hard about the abstract class.
 
Are all of your classes managers?
 
@Ockonal It says that it works with the log. It doesn't say what "managing" involves
 
Xeo
@Ockonal So, what do you "manage" on the log, with that class?
 
Just do EverythingManager and be done with it.
 
11:39 AM
I have absolutely no fucking clue what your logmanager does
 
@jalf ABCManager, ABCController, ABCHandler, etc...
 
which means it's a terrible name
 
@CatPlusPlus Not all, but I have something like: LogManager, ConfigManager, DisplayManager
 
@Damian No, what you need to do is not use abstract class unless you need it.
Hint: you don't need it.
 
@Ockonal and you are unable to describe to us what their "management" duties involve
 
Xeo
11:40 AM
@Ockonal What does the DisplayManager do? What does your ConfigManager do?
 
Manages, duh.
 
I know someone who named all his classes Handler. A class that extracts documentation from an XML file? XMLHandler.
 
@Xeo They handles all staff needed to make single config interface work
 
ConfigHandlerManager.
 
@CatPlusPlus Lol :)
 
Xeo
11:41 AM
Does you DisplayManager put stuff on the screen? Call it Renderer. Does your ConfigManager allow you to access configuration options? Call it that, a "Configuration".
 
Poco libraries have a class named TaskManager.
 
Lemme guess, all of those managers are singletons.
 
All managers are simpletons
2
 
@Ockonal What is "all stuff needed to make single config interface work"?
 
Xeo
If I ever write a style guide, manager is to be forbidden in the name unless they have a really convincing argument.
 
11:42 AM
Your class name tells the reader of the code nothing. Which means that it is a bad, useless name
 
@jalf Handler to window, parameters for the window, handlers to opengl
 
What you need to do is learn Haskell and then come back to OOP.
 
it's also a crutch for bad design. You wrote a class with no clearly designed responsibility
 
@CatPlusPlus KISS principle
 
Go back to drawing board.
@Damian What about it?
 
Xeo
11:43 AM
@Damian Oh, so "thinking hard about your abstract class that overcomplicates things" is now "Simple"?
 
If DisplayManager has methods like getCurrentDisplay, getNumberOfDisplays etc then perhaps it isn't a bad name. You need to give it a name after all.
 
@Xeo Maybe we should. The Glorious Lounge Style Guide.
 
@CatPlusPlus avoid abstract classes before you need it.. so that must be the KISS principle
 
In Which You Suck At Writing Code.
 
@StackedCrooked Yeah, it does what you described
 
11:44 AM
I don't know, I'm not the one who feels the need to name common sense applications.
 
@StackedCrooked You could just name it Displays, for example. The class represents your displays.
 
@Damian Isn't that the YAGNI principle?
 
@jalf If the class does
 
@StackedCrooked ;-)
 
does'nt represent only displays?
 
11:46 AM
@Ockonal If it does more than that, you mean?
Then it should be split into multiple classes
 
Go back to the drawing board
 
What's drawing board?
 
each class should have one responsibility. And that is why manager classes are bad. They're where you put all the responsibilities you havent' really thought about
and then you end up with messy, bloated classes which mix 8 different areas of responsibility
@Ockonal it's an expression meaning basically "start over". Redesign the class
 
@jalf Okay, thanks. I understood the problem
To tell the truth, not all of my manager classes know much about different parts of logic. But they are still called managers
I've tried to call managers only some base workers
Something like 'core'
 
8 mins ago, by sehe
All managers are simpletons
a client of my father once called him a "simpleton"
did not go down well
 
Ell
11:51 AM
when are singletons okay?
 
Never.
 
NEVER
 
Ell
never ever ever?
 
They're fine.
 
11:52 AM
if you're considering it, your design is wrong
 
But only for me.
 
you suck.
 
@TonyTheLion I'd never actually call anyone that :)
 
@sehe I would hope not.
 
It was just the obligatory joke by reduction-to-pun
 
11:52 AM
@sehe Mr DownWell?
 
@sehe haha
 
Oh, I see now.
 
@StackedCrooked Don't know him
 
I was confused. Never mind.
 
11:53 AM
easy to get confused in this room
 
@StackedCrooked "De heer Neerbron, attentie voor de heer Neerbron". Sounds legit
@TonyTheLion What other reason to be here?
 
In Holland there are many people that have funny last names.
 
@sehe fun
because I'm permanently bored
 
@TonyTheLion What's the difference?
@StackedCrooked Yup
 
Has something to do with Napoleon IIRC.
 
11:54 AM
@TonyTheLion Should be a number by Björk "Permanently bored"
 
man
 
@StackedCrooked Lots
 
@sehe For times when she isn't violently happy.
 
I imagine that between 1800 and 1939, Godwin's Law was like, Napoleon instead of Hitler.
 
11:56 AM
@StackedCrooked Exactly
 
Maybe I'll have Internet today. Maybe I won't. Maybe I'll have Internet today. Maybe I won't. ...
 
Picking off daisies, again, are you
 
Yeah, it's a mess here.
 
In my architecture I have Root class which is singleton and stores pointers to my managers
 
11:57 AM
That's bad, right?
 
@Ockonal Even I think that's pretty bad.
 
Terrible
 
A few words, please
Why do you think so
 
Gruesome
 
11:58 AM
well, one, it's a Singleton.
that automatically makes it an abomination.
 
Second, pointers!
 
then because it stores manager pointers, that effectively makes all them singletons too
 
Singletons are a point of contention in multi-threaded code
 
pointsers?
What's wrong with pointers
 
pointers suck
 
11:59 AM
@TonyTheLion you wrote a bit too much there
 
and thirdly
 
error prone
 
"Manager"? what the fuck even is a manager?
 
@Ell I can't imagine a situation where I would say a singleton is the right tool to use. But I can't rule out with certainty that such a situation might possibly exist
 
Which is a Good Thing(TM), I like things that suck
 
11:59 AM
@thecoshman what?
 
@DeadMG Well, you know... err.. managing ...stuff.
 
ENOUGH WORDS
 
@TonyTheLion "Singletons are a point of contention"
 

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