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5:00 PM
@rubenvb fishy... or awesome?
 
@ecatmur incorrect and compat breaking
 
@rubenvb It's a standard. Of course it breaks compatibility.
You're right though, so much code is going to break when user-defined literals hit production compilers.
@rubenvb ah, ISWYM
 
@LuchianGrigore I can downvote you thrice if you want ;)
 
@rubenvb Why not?
 
sbi
@Papergay I am not totally sure about the distinction you are making there. For all I understand, though, I was using "intelligence" in the meaning of "intelligent abilities", rather than "outcome of a fixed set of personal experiences".
 
5:02 PM
#define bar _mylit
"foo"bar
 
sbi
Of course, individual morals will deviate from each other and those deviations are determined by deviating experiences (morality is something that has to be learned, after all, not something we are born with) — yet the morality of the individuals within a society is pretty congruent.
If you don't believe that, just imagine someone in your society had the morale believes of the ancient Romans, or one of those native tribe calling themselves "people" and their neighbors "non-people". They'd probably consider antisocial in your society and locked away.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think maybe token pasting would work; does that trigger the right sort of reparsing?
#define bar _mylit
"foo" ## bar
 
sbi
Anyway, I want to see the new batman movie tonight, so I will leave now, @Papergay.
See you guys!
 
bb
 
Enjoy :)
 
5:03 PM
later
 
@sbi cya then and sry for my bad english skills D:
 
@sbi You know its 2 hours 45 minutes, right? ;)
 
@sbi The good guys triumph. There, I spoiled you.
 
@sbi Enjoy the movie.
 
@FredOverflow It's worth it
 
5:04 PM
It isn't.
 
sbi
@FredOverflow That's why I want to catch the 8pm show, rather than the 10:30 one.
 
Well, have def, eh, lambda, eh, fun.
 
meh, until just now I was convinced it was Friday today
damn, I am dissapoint.
 
0
Q: C99 printf formatters vs C++11 user-defined-literals

rubenvbThis code: #define __STDC_FORMAT_MACROS #include <inttypes.h> #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h> #include <unistd.h> #include <stdint.h> int main(int argc,char **argv) { uint64_t val=1234567890; printf("%"PRId64"\n",val); exit(0); } Works for C99, C++...

 
@TonyTheLion I think that every time the robot logs on
 
5:05 PM
Oh, ick.
 
There, a decent C/C++ question.
 
@TonyTheLion This morning, I thought it was Monday :)
 
@ecatmur Fixed, thanks. I should have tested the C++11 parts :S
 
@FredOverflow We're both offset by the same number of days :P
@DeadMG how did that thinking come about?
 
@DeadMG sry i might have skipped something, but i think we were at the point where intelligence (software) was added to instincts (hardware) and you point was, if i understood it right, something else?
 
5:06 PM
@DeadMG wait, what.
 
@TonyTheLion I'm living two days in the past, and you're living two days in the future. Or maybe 5 days in the past? ;)
 
@FredOverflow Future, I prefer. Then I can say I'm from the future :P
 
std::future<Lion> tony;
 
Oct 14 '11 at 0:07, by R. Martinho Fernandes
(Btw, you're living in the present, trust me.)
 
5:07 PM
nvm xD
 
Never trust anybody who says "Trust me".
 
SO Y U NO ALREADY ANSWERED MY QUESTION??
lol
 
@Chimera Unless it's a robot.
 
:4855210 You're a gay paperboy.
 
5:08 PM
@TonyTheLion I saw an opportunity to insult someone and I was going to pick you but I figured I already argued with you enough for one day so I picked robot because he's always a safe butt monkey. Also because he's abandoned me over the past little while.
 
Especially if it's a robot.
 
Robots can't lie!
 
@DeadMG lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What if the robot becomes sentient?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes unless their creator could lie
 
Ell
5:09 PM
what is the difference between building and compiling?
 
@Chimera Sentient robots are the best.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Exactly. So if it qualifies any statement with "Trust me" that implies that one could possibly not trust that robot.
 
@Ell compiling is a part of the building process.
there's linking after the compiling.
 
@Ell A building is a structure where you live in, and compiling is hording lots of useless toys.
 
Then debugging.
 
5:09 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes unless they have "Lie algorithm"
 
@SamDeHaan No, "Trust me" is not a statement of the (obvious) truth of the previous statement, but an incentive necessary when dealing with humans.
 
@FredOverflow wut?
 
@TonyTheLion The robot in "I Robot" lied.
:-)
 
@Chimera that guy was terrible
 
@Chimera Which one?
 
5:10 PM
In architecture, construction, engineering, real estate development and technology the word building may refer to one of the following: # Any human-made structure used or intended for supporting or sheltering any use or continuous occupancy, or # An act of construction (i. e. the activity of building, see also builder) In this article, the first usage is generally intended unless otherwise specified. Buildings come in a wide amount of shapes and functions, and have been adapted throughout history for a wide number of factors, from building materials available, to weather ...
 
Oh, you mean that movie hours-long advert?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's exactly what a robot capable of lying would say.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Was iRobot made by Apple?
 
Product placement, or embedded marketing, is a form of advertisement, where branded goods or services are placed in a context usually devoid of ads, such as movies, music videos, the story line of television shows, or news programs. The product placement is not disclosed at the time that the good or service is featured. In April 2006, Broadcasting & Cable reported, "Two thirds of advertisers employ 'branded entertainment'—product placement—with the vast majority of that (80%) in commercial TV programming." The story, based on a survey by the Association of National Advertisers, said "R...
 
5:11 PM
@FredOverflow Of course, silly
 
never seen it
 
you didn't miss much
 
@FredOverflow Then you're in a better position than I am.
 
I enjoyed it.... it could have been better though.
US Robotics doesn't even make modems anymore.
 
@FredOverflow No. As a matter of fact, Apple doesn't actually make much of anything.
 
5:13 PM
They have stock in the letter i
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Did it cripple you for life? :)
 
@FredOverflow Yes.
 
I didn't even notice any ads there.
 
Unless I become the victim of amnesia.
 
@CatPlusPlus Me neither.
 
5:14 PM
I couldn't name one thing they advertised in that film. So, fail, I guess.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes In your case, that's called a hard drive crash.
 
Remember when you could go to the movies and NOT see a commercial? Now you set through 20 minutes of commercials then 10 of previews.
 
@Chimera Another reason why I'd rather pay to stream films direct.
 
Fringe had much more evident and hilarious product placement.
 
> Converse All-Stars, vintage 2004.
^ Actual line from the movie.
 
Ell
5:15 PM
I only notice the orange adverts, and I quite enjoy those
 
"That's how people pay nowadays".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh yeah.
 
@DeadMG You have NetFlix?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't even know what that means.
 
@CatPlusPlus The Audi cars
 
5:15 PM
@Chimera It's meh. They need to make many more videos streamable, else ill be cancelling.
 
@CatPlusPlus It's a brand of shoes.
 
@rubenvb C++11 spec says compilation process is the entire process, including preprocessor and linkage.
 
@Chimera no, he has torrents
 
@Chimera Their selection is horrifically bad.
 
NetFlix is for US-only, isn't it?
 
5:16 PM
@DeadMG I have NetFlix...
 
@CatPlusPlus Someone comments on the great shoes Spooner has, and then he replies with that.
 
Proxy and US credit card will do the trick
 
I'd gladly pay for service like Netflix, but they don't give a shit about customers, so fuck them.
 
Audi is placed in nearly every movie that has a scene with cars.
 
Amazon video is far superior
 
5:17 PM
Region restrictions are one of the most moronic things copyright industry ever came up with.
 
@Drise Is it comparable in price?
 
@Drise No it isn't, their website sucks ass when it comes to selecting movies
 
It's free with my prime membership
 
Right after DRM.
 
Converse All-Stars are the best shoes in the world.
 
5:17 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes See, you have to know what it is beforehand to catch something like that.
It's not very effective.
 
@Prætorian I can also directly rent movies and stream, instead of waiting on a dvd
 
@Drise Netflix has streaming too
 
@Drise I've considered Amazon Prime. Is it really worth it? I could then get rid of Hulu plus and NetFlix..
 
VoD is the future, because fuck cinemas full of stupid people.
 
@CatPlusPlus No, you don't, because that line was uttered in a conversation about the protagonist's shoes.
 
5:18 PM
@Prætorian Of what, My little pony?
 
Or DVDs.
 
@Chimera Dude, so worth it. I order everything off amazon.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, I ignored it.
 
@Drise I'll give you that, they don't have a great selection. I prefer DVDs anyway
 
@MooingDuck ah. But the linking process is horribly implementation defined. Does it explicitly say an executable image (exe/dll/dylib/so) needs to be the end result?
 
5:19 PM
@MooingDuck it's called translation in section 2.2
 
@Prætorian Too expensive, and snail mail? Is this 1998?
 
@rubenvb Linking is phase 9.
 
@rubenvb I fail to see how that's relevant
 
@rubenvb Linking doesn't need to produce directly executable image, that'd be silly restriction.
 
@Drise What can I say? I like watching special features
 
5:20 PM
Compilation is phases 7-8, possibly. Except that phase 7 is also called translation.
 
It's implementation defined because there's more than one possible implementation, and they're all equally good.
 
@Prætorian You sound like my mother.
 
"translated translation units". WTF.
 
@Drise Your mother sounds cool :)
 
10
A: What are the stages of compilation of a C++ program?

Keith Thompson Are the stages of compilation of a C++ program specified by the standard? Yes and no. The C++ standard defines 9 "phases of translation". Quoting from the N3242 draft (10MB PDF), dated 2011-02-28 (prior to the release of the official C++11 standard), section 2.2: The precedence among t...

 
5:21 PM
@CatPlusPlus aha, CC @MooingDuck. The actual linking with ld could be placed outside the process defined by the Standard.
 
@Prætorian Yea, she's cool
 
@ecatmur phases? you mean "stages of compilation"?
 
> All external entity references are resolved. Library components are linked to satisfy external references to entities not defined in the current translation. All such translator output is collected into a program image which contains information needed for execution in its execution environment.
Sounds like linking.
I doubt standard says everything has to happen at once, or in the same driver.
 
so's can be made with undefined references.
DLLs can't
 
That's going too much into silly implementation details that language designers have no business of defining.
So?
 
5:23 PM
I need to catch up on "House".
 
@MooingDuck The standard calls them "phases" (§2.2: "Phases of Translation").
 
@CatPlusPlus so creating an so is by definition of the standard not a complete compilation process...
 
@JerryCoffin I just noticed that, yeah :(
 
.so resolves external references by marking them as delayed.
@rubenvb No, that's you being a pedant and clutching onto irrelevant details.
 
@ecatmur do you have an answer to my last comment on my printf question?
 
5:24 PM
yup, just now
@MooingDuck They're phases now.
 
@CatPlusPlus I thought we were discussing the C++ Standard... home and birthplace of pedantry?
 
the only place I can see where the spec gives any sort of definition for "compilation", is that in the index has "compilation, seperate" point to "Lexical conventions". The rest is "you can compile programs" "compile time arithmetic" and such.
 
@ecatmur ...and have been since (at least) C89.
 
@ecatmur me too. Your comment does not answer my concern and the example in the question.
 
Is there anyway to see the individual steps? Or is it all done in memory?
 
5:25 PM
@rubenvb shall we move this to chat?
ah right; there's nothing there for macro replacement to hit; "%"PRId64 is a single token.
 
@Drise depends on compiler, but many compiliers have options to only do particular steps.
 
@ecatmur ok. Since when does the preprocessor care about tokens? I thought it was purely textual?
 
@rubenvb that bit of the spec is called "preprocessing tokens"
 
@rubenvb The preprocessor only works on tokens.
 
@Drise Mostly in memory, anyway. Most compilers will let you see the result of preprocessing, and a (mostly unreadable) object file, and a final executable, but little in between. Some (recent gcc, clang) have provisions for looking at things like ASTs as well, but that's usually not compiled into most distributions.
 
5:27 PM
You can't token paste keywords, for example.
 
@rubenvb what @R.MartinhoFernandes said.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes or substrings
 
Could someone write a simple program, and show each step? I'm curious..
 
So everything (alpha-underscorical characters- following a string literal constant "" without a space is considered a UDL operator?
 
@Drise They could show at least most steps. I've never seen such an analysis though.
 
5:29 PM
@JerryCoffin No I mean could someone here actually do this for me, as I have no clue.
 
@rubenvb and numeric characters, if they aren't the first character.
 
@Drise got a copy of the spec?
 
@MooingDuck yea. What do you think I am, a noob?
 
There's a slight difference, but it doesn't matter often, and that's why people say "it's textual".
 
@Drise see section 2.2
 
5:30 PM
Is SO down?
 
@ecatmur yeah, that. :) This sucks balls.
 
@LuchianGrigore no
 
@Drise go to 2.2, and run through it yourself. Ask if any (sustained) confusion
@rubenvb like I said, awesome.
Anyway, got to run.
 
@Drise Yes; I'm saying somebody could if they wanted to badly enough, but I've never seen anybody actually do it, and I (for one) would probably only do it if I was being paid to.
 
@ecatmur Ok, well, I wanted to see it actually happen. 2.2 isn't helping much.
Btw, Thanks @R.MartinhoFernandes for the Spec.
 
5:34 PM
@Drise I'm confused as to what you're wanting. A step by step demo of each of those phases?
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah, because it's not particularly interesting.
 
@MooingDuck Yea, if possible. What the source file progressively gets morphed into as it heads towards an executable.
 
And it very rarely matters.
 
@Drise the tricky part is that you can't see several morphs. Step one is effectively a encoding conversion. Both sides are the same text, it's merely the underlying format that changes. Same with step five.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I can think of more...colorful ways of describing it, but that covers the general idea reasonably well.
 
5:44 PM
you can preprocess to a file in implementations like VS and, I believe, GCC.
apart from that, I know of no way to view the compilation process step-by-step.
 
Yeah, g++ -E to preprocess only.
I spits to standard output, so you may want some redirection.
Is SO also failing for you guys?
 
@Drise heres some of the steps: ideone.com/VbgXy
 
@DeadMG What did I do wrong? I can't always back you up. That's what fanboys or slaves do, not friends.
 
5:50 PM
> Can't show this step, both sides look the same.
Yes, you can, if you do it like GHCi does.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nothing. It's just me grumping because I've had a bad week. Ignore it.
 
@MooingDuck Interesting. Thanks.
 
@Drise does it help at all? I rather think it wouldn't. It's not much clearer than the spec itself. But I tried. All the "magic" is in step seven.
 
@MooingDuck Not really, but things like "it tokenizes it" (the phrase) doesn't make much sense to me.
 
@Drise each of "std", "::", and "string" becomes a seperate "item", that it works on.
 
5:58 PM
What's with the ??>
 
@Drise those are trigraphs, for people who don't have a { key.
 
??<std::cout << array??(j??); ??>
Oh...
Never heard of that
 
@Drise not all keyboards way back when had a [ key
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol idd.
 
@Drise yeah, nobody uses them anymore.
 
5:59 PM
250
Q: What does the C ??!??! operator do?!

Peter OlsonI saw a line of C that looked like this: !ErrorHasOccured() ??!??! HandleError(); It compiled correctly and seems to run ok. It seems to like it's checking if an error has occurred, and if it has, it handles it, but I'm not really sure what it's actually doing or how it's doing it. It does loo...

You don't need to know them. :)
 

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