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user3010322
4:00 PM
... Then agian, if it's allowed, perhaps I should try something else.
 
it'd decay into a pointer wouldn't it?
 
user3010322
Not if you use templates to capture by reference.
 
user3010322
But, I digress. There's a better way to do what I'm doing.
 
sbi
@zneak IMO You can never know whether someone is the right person for a job until that someone has worked in that job for a few months.
 
@sbi sure; but you can do "sanity" checks prior to hiring :)
 
sbi
4:01 PM
@ScarletAmaranth Yes, you can get pretty close during interviews. Still, at times I was surprised (either way).
 
I think that the interview process is biased to reduce the alpha error as much as possible
 
weird; I thought you wouldn't hire a person who would then end up being better than you had originally thought
(I mean; why hire in the first place then)
 
meaning that large tech companies try to avoid hiring screw ups at the cost of passing a few very good programmers
 
sbi
@ScarletAmaranth Actually, isn't that the best which could ever happen: You have a bunch of mediocre candidates, pick what you think is the best of those, and it turns out he's a star.
 
how does one tell what a mediocre candidate is on an interview?
 
sbi
4:03 PM
IME, hiring is usually a kind of bet. You bet that the positive things you think you have seen trump the negative things you think you have seen.
 
i've pretty much only been on the receiving end of interviews so far, so I can't talk out of a lot of experience on that matter.
 
well - I have very little experience with actual interviews; been to one - the guy was wondering whether I know what recursion is; you at first think he's trolling you and as you realize he's serious, you're no longer interested in the job
 
sbi
When I was applying for a job, I tried to not to feel like it's just me who's interviewed. I interviewed them as well. (I have turned down offerings because I didn't want to work at the place I was offered.)
 
this is just to weed out the people who learned programming fro "Teach Yourself C++ in 72 Hours" really
 
4:06 PM
@sbi is that not how it's normal?
 
@zneak no not really; all the questions to follow were equally stupid
 
sbi
@AlexM. You'd think so, but people are often surprised when I say that.
 
actually, I was surprised he didn't care about anything important
 
@CatPlusPlus If you're going to accuse someone of "racism" then you'd better fucking back it up.
 
sbi
@ScarletAmaranth Apparently there's many applicants who fail at the most basic things and companies have setup tests to weed out those as early as possible.
 
4:08 PM
> Lightness Races in Orbit
done
 
@AlexM. Smooth.
 
sbi
I have been given very basic tests, too, during interviews. This usually ended up with me pointing out the errors in their questionnaire. :-/ I have turned down an offer where they dismissed my critique of the code in their question.
 
(waiting for Cat to find lots of India-related quotes)
 
@sbi he didn't ask anything that would involve even basic algorithmic thinking; let alone asymptotic complexity - also, they do embedded stuff and he didn't ask jack about architecture and its implications shrug
he asked whether I knew why I always need a virtual destructor
 
4:10 PM
Fuck me, is the Lounge still full of aggro?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit cba :v
 
@ScarletAmaranth, that might be because you're not expected to know about the specifics of the embedded platform before you work with it
 
sbi
@ScarletAmaranth I am not trying to defend that guy. All I am saying is that there's reasons companies started to test for even the most basic things. That doesn't mean they all do it well. If you had a bad feeling, it's good you didn't take an offer.
 
Call it whatever you want
 
@zneak I'd like to see a "modern" architecture without prefetchers and branch predictors
 
4:11 PM
@MartinJames Nah
 
sbi
@MartinJames From what I can see, with one exception everyone has calmed down.
 
back to normal levels
 
WHAT DO YOU MEAN CALMED DOWN FOR FU*K SAKES?!
 
You really need to stop being Serious though
 
@ScarletAmaranth lol
 
4:12 PM
@CatPlusPlus I think you think I'm serious a lot more frequently than I actually am
 
sbi
@ScarletAmaranth We mean we're back to writing FUCK when we mean fuck, rather than sticking in funny symbols.
 
I just don't want the Lounge to explode before the unconference.
 
well
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You were serious about that stupid room title change, that's too serious :v
 
@sbi oh fuck, I didn't cunting realize that
 
4:13 PM
I am currently converting and then uploading a video of me feeding Daisy
 
sbi
Can you tell us where, so we can avoid that site?
 
@MartinJames Lounge is Eternal
 
probably gonna post a link right here
 
@DeadMG I wanna play with Daisy. OK, I'm a bit drunk.
 
@ScarletAmaranth You don't.
 
sbi
4:14 PM
@MartinJames Ah, and if it blows up afterwards, you'd be fine? You arrogant selfish little imbecile!
 
Fuck inheritance.
 
of course I don't
that's why his question is non sequitur
 
btw Guns of Icarus looks nice we should play that
 
@sbi Sounds about right:)
 
sbi
@MartinJames That's precondition #1 fulfilled then.
@Jefffrey In wetware, there's no inheriting without fucking.
 
4:15 PM
contract programming so gud
 
It's 3.75€ and I have a free copy for whoever wants it
 
I go bed. Hadda lotta Doombar.
 
@CatPlusPlus dl size?
 
Martin wasted at this hour?
 
3GBish
 
sbi
4:17 PM
3.75?
 
probably have to wait till tomorrow then at least
 
@sbi Wetware?
 
sbi
@Jefffrey Non-robots.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sunday - always wasted at this hour.
 
@sbi Oh. OH. :lol:
 
4:18 PM
1.8 Steam says
 
sbi
1.8 Steam? What's that in GB?
 
protip ape: jokes are supposed to be funny
 
sbi
Who says so?
 
The Lounge's Joke Working Group
 
sbi
4:19 PM
@DeadMG You should have heeded this advice.
 
Too many consonants in the acronym.
 
I'm way more profound than dead philosophers.
 
Jokes are supposed to be funny.
- Zeno
 
I keep on trolling people.
- Zeno
 
sbi
It's not funny when robots say that.
 
4:21 PM
@DeadMG Sorry, but "profoundly retarded" wasn't what they had in mind.
 
sbi
Ha, good to see you chime in, @Jerry.
 
@sbi Hello. How are you tonight?
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Lazy.
 
@sbi A good thing, that. After thinking about it some yesterday, I concluded that I haven't been nearly lazy enough at work lately.
 
so lazy, you wait for Jerry to come up with your comebacks? :P
 
sbi
4:24 PM
@JerryCoffin Ah, but I am not at work.
 
@sbi Exactly.
 
I fart in your general direction
or maybe just in my chair's general direction.
 
sbi
I cannot exactly be lazy at work right now. Too much excitement going on. Also some pressure.
@DeadMG Yeah, you be the chairman of doggy farts.
 
I'm going to go feed myself now that I've had fun feeding muttkins
and now that I'm actually capable of eating food.
boy, that takes getting used to.
 
@sbi Always excitement at work, and always pressure--but also definitely cases where I'd have finished sooner if I'd waited longer before I started to code.
 
sbi
4:28 PM
@JerryCoffin Ah, that. Being involved in writing the spec tends to avoid that.
 
@sbi I'm also involved in writing the spec (to some degree), but apparently not enough to keep myself from exploring a dead end now and again...
 
@MartinJames 5.30pm
 
> The Security Development Lifecycle (SDL) is a software development process that helps developers build more secure software and address security compliance requirements while reducing development cost.
something tells me I don't need this
I just want to learn math for 3D graphics
 
ia lways turn it off
 
@AlexM. You're looking for a different SDL.
 
@JerryCoffin no no, VS had that SDL thing auto-checked when I was making a new project
and I had no idea what it meant
so in the end I think it's safe not to include it
 
@AlexM. Oh, I see.
 
user3010322
Hah.
 
neat, there's a monokai theme for VS too
 
4:51 PM
Built-in types behave nicely?
 
user1804599
Nobody said they did.
 
user3010322
I wonder if I can array access using indices<i...> from a variadic pack...
 
user3010322
Like, myarr([0]....) // repeat [0] access I times or something...
 
user3010322
Ah well
 
@ThePhD That will never be a valid syntax. :/
 
user3010322
4:55 PM
So I've learned.
 
also in case anyone is interested in the same thing, this is the book I've been following through for some time now
 
user3010322
Guess I'll have to recurse.
 
user3010322
@AlexM. I have that book. Kinky.
 
I like that everything in it is short and to the point
 
I liked Game Engine Architecture (it had a math section, iirc)
 
4:56 PM
I'm also following that one for this
 
user3010322
@Borgleader I have that one too!
 
user3010322
None of these in actual physical copies. I got PDF copies which I let a good OCR run overnight on.
 
user3010322
I need to revisit a section in one of the books that talks about skeletal animation, however.
 
I use pdfs only
 
user3010322
Because I'm having a ROUGH time figuring that stuff out.
 
user1804599
4:58 PM
> good OCR
 
user1804599
Aaahahahah.
 
the only physical book that I have is my first book on programming, ever
I convinced my mum to buy it for me a long time ago
 
user3010322
.... For Teens.
 
For cool kids.
 
I never wrote a game in Visual Basic but I used it to discover how to make GUI apps in VB 6.0
 
4:59 PM
mum’s getting really into going vegetarian meanwhile i’m over here getting cravings to rip meat apart with my bare teeth #foxkin #dragonkin
 
and that gave me a huge boost in learning how to program
 
dat pun
 
@AlexM. Did you do so to track an IP?
 
user3010322
.... HhahaHAHAHAHA
 
user3010322
I forgot. Half these type traits don't work on references.
 
5:00 PM
lol nah I only watched CSI much later so I had no idea what kind of power GUIs in VB give you
 
user3010322
The joy. The sheer, unadulterated joy. :)))))))
 
man, Blizzard stopped selling StarCraft Anthology
I guess they just didn't want to drop the price below 15 eur or something
 
This comes out on thuesday.
It's going to be hard to wait.
 
user3010322
Hm.
 
user3010322
I guess instead of std::is_array
 
user3010322
5:09 PM
I need to make std::is_like_array
 
Just to introduce some sane UB:

template<class T, std::size_t N>
struct is_array<std::array<T, N>> : std::true_type {};
 
user3010322
I'm not sure that's a "legal" specialization.
 
> Just to introduce some sane UB
 
user3010322
Mmm.
 
user3010322
The biggest difference is an array can decay to a pointer of its elements
 
user3010322
5:11 PM
std::array supports no such decay (no implicit conversion)
 
user3010322
So, it's not a drop-in replacement. Everything else is identical, however.
 
@AlexM. I have the second edition of that book!
 
@EtiennedeMartel Eh, they can make trailers for anything look good, and I wasn't a big fan of Bastion.
 
It taught DirectX, which was both slower than GDI+ and harder to use
 
user3010322
^ Finally, someone who sees what I saw!
 
user3010322
5:17 PM
However, GDI+ is not great at handling things that are not of a bitmap-based nature.
 
I have not looked at it now, so I can't say how good it was. back then it seemed awesome to me, despite the fact that I barely did anything with it
 
Tip: in the part where Jonathan S. Harbour says to set things to Nothing in Finalize(), ignore it
 
but I know the author's works get contradicting opinions all the time
 
That’s anti-garbage-collection
 
there's this huge blog post where a guy points out all of his mistakes in his book about gamedev on the GBA
 
user1804599
That does not say they behave nicely.
 
user1804599
If they behave horribly, then user-defined types also behave horribly, since the niceness of the behaviour of built-in types in that case is “horrible.”
 
@EtiennedeMartel vegetablekin
 
yay, got glut working
 
user3010322
Vary nice.
 
5:31 PM
Fuck everything I'll write the chat in Python
 
The chat?
 
Also @ThePhD you should repackage that Websockets stuff as a library
 
user3010322
I suppose I should.
 
user3010322
But if I am, I want to make it a Socket.IO implementation instead.
 
I'd build at on top of the stuff you have right now
 
5:32 PM
@CatPlusPlus lol why? it's not type-safe
 
And have two libraries!
 
user1804599
What was the reason for writing a new WebSocket library again?
 
user3010322
Yaaay, libraries!
 
user1804599
@Abyx wat
 
Well, three maybe, splitting the interfaces into their own library might be a good idea
 
5:32 PM
@rightfold The existing ones aren’t compatible with Python 3!
 
@rightfold dynamically-typed
 
user1804599
@minitech It was written in C#, dummy.
 
@rightfold Because existing ones all sucked
 
btw I have a C++ WebSocket library
 
5:33 PM
@rightfold I rest my case.
 
Microsoft's only work on IIS on Win8
 
user3010322
Fleck was, uh.
 
@CatPlusPlus the majority of servers nowadays!
 
let's write chat in C++
 
user3010322
... Interesting, in its implementation, to say the least.
 
user1804599
5:33 PM
Use Erlang.
 
Rust!
 
And the rest was crappy and/or not using Task
 
'cuz it's lounge C++ here
 
Also, what are we talking about?
 
user3010322
OH THAt'S RIGHT
 
5:33 PM
@AlexM. use OGL+ or wtv, bartek should be able to tell you more about it
 
user3010322
We didn't use the other implementations because they were ALL SYNCHRONOUS
 
user3010322
I mean COME ON
 
user1804599
Spawn a thread for each client.
 
I heard Node.js was asynchronous
 
It was like 1999
 
user1804599
5:34 PM
You will have a total of zero threads that way.
 
All over again
 
user3010322
I can't believe I forgot about that
 
So are you building a new chat room or something?
 
user3010322
Because I spent so much time breaking my neck over making it async.
 
Never forget, never forgive
 
user3010322
5:35 PM
@minitech Technically, I already set up a dummy chat and it was working with a jsfiddle @melak47 set up.
 
@Abyx Yeah, C++ is exceptionally good and supported for web development.
 
user3010322
We were able to message each other back and forth, except I was sending messages DIRECTLY from hte server
 
user3010322
rather than, uh. As another client.
 
This looks neat autobahn.ws
 
> minitech
> moderator
> age: 16
^ what. the. fuck.
 
5:36 PM
if he's a good mod he's a good mod, age irrelevant.
 
@Abyx Smurf age
 
Well, not quite.
 
So you're not a good mod?
:v
 
Isn’t the whole point of this new chatroom getting back the ability to ban clueless people like me?
 
why not find a 7 y.o. then?
meh nevermind
 
5:37 PM
@Abyx If they were shown to be a good mod, then sure.
 
^ this
 
@ThePhD They have this thing, might be useful for testing? github.com/tavendo/AutobahnTestSuite
 
@Abyx It’d be against the TOS
=(
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus That actually might be a great way to test my implementation. I guess I'd better get on that.
 
user3010322
5:38 PM
What was Autobahn written in, anyhow?
 
Python
 
user3010322
Might as well use python all the way through.
 
user3010322
Or go back to C#.
 
user1804599
IronPython.
 
user3010322
Or we could really break out necks and do C++ WebSockets.
 
5:39 PM
lol
 
If it's not written in Prolog I'm not using it
 
user1804599
Haskell.
 
Ha ha no
 
@rightfold this
 
I only use programs written in QuakeC
 
5:39 PM
@ThePhD I wrote a C++ websocket implementation. It's not that hard :)
 
Carmack is my god
 
C++ is not that neck-breaking. especially for network stuff.
 
user3010322
There's no standard networking stuff, so.
 
user3010322
We'd have to use WASAPI or whatever
 
I really should rewrite it and put it on github.
 
5:40 PM
I'd rather eat poop than write C++
5
 
user1804599
Also Twirl y u no work.
 
@CatPlusPlus I bet you do both.
 
user3010322
The low-level Windows Socket code, and then when you go to Linux, it'd have to be, uh
 
user3010322
WHat is that thing called.
 
@ThePhD Isn't that some kind of hot sauce
 
user3010322
5:40 PM
pnode?
 
@ThePhD there is asio for it.
 
@presiuslitelsnoflek wasa b i
 
user3010322
^ What he said.
 
@Abyx yeah, that's what I would go for (if I was writing network stuff in C++)
 
@AlexM. Then you're a moron
 
5:41 PM
@Jefffrey No that's a windows thingy
 
user3010322
Heh.
 
user1804599
Write a small WebSocket thing in C and then write all the other stuff in Bash using stdin and stdout to communicate.
 
@DeadMG oh yeah? amaze me with your god
 
Also wasa are awesome.
 
@AlexM. Only morons have gods.
 
user1804599
5:42 PM
Or with netcat.
 
also Carmack hasn't done anything interesting in like, 20 years.
15, tops.
 
@Jefffrey usa usa usa usa usa usa usa usa usa usa usa usa usa usa usa usa
 
puppy so serious :(
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey knäckebröd.
 
@presiuslitelsnoflek lolno
 
5:43 PM
@DeadMG why do you hate carmack so much though?
 
@DeadMG he's made the games industry aware that C++ is more than C with classes
 
I don't hate Carmack
 
and that static analysis is a thing
 
user1804599
Probably because he’s achieved more in life than him.
 
I dislike people who worship Carmack because he invented Carmack Reverse in 1990 or whatever, and then they just blindly follow him
 
5:43 PM
@presiuslitelsnoflek sweden sweden sweden sweden tits sweden sweden sweden blonde sweden sweden
 
honestly, those are pretty impressive feats. :)
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey The Netherlands The Netherlands The Netherlands The Netherlands The Netherlands The Netherlands The Netherlands The Netherlands The Netherlands The Netherlands The Netherlands The Netherlands The Netherlands The Netherlands The Netherlands The Netherlands
 
user1804599
Ha, capitalised. I win.
 
@DeadMG he didn't invent it. He just brought it to the games industry's attention :)
 
@Jefffrey pakistan pakistan pakistan pakistan pakistan pakistan pakistan pakistan pakistan pakistan pakistan pakistan pakistan pakistan
 
5:44 PM
it was a pretty impressive feat.
 
user1804599
Crazy is what I am going.
 
and the keyword I feel there is "was".
 
in case it wasn't obvious, I don't worship carmack
 
you worship his cock
 
user3010322
I'm more of a balls person.
 
user3010322
5:45 PM
Can't go wrong with a hefty, sweaty pair in your mouth.
 
I definitely call my cock 'god'
 
but I do recognize his abilities and intelligence
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus She does, too!
 
Lounge<Classy>
 
also the effort he put in the old games
 
5:45 PM
I was resisting the urge to make that joke for 10 minutes and I couldn't sorry
 
I don't consider him to be some sort of mediocre programmer in any way
 
@DeadMG oh, I didn't mean the square root thing. Screw that. :p
 
user1804599
I call my vag The Great Cause of Havoc on Meta Stack Overflow.
 
your vag has destructive powers
 
Rightfold's Serious Business
 
5:47 PM
@Borgleader I'll take a look
 
user1804599
Twirl wtf y u no compile templates.
 
user1804599
Let’s try the other repository. :V
 
how important should it be to have a SSD in addition to an HDD in a new laptop for myself?
 
Haha, Haskell
 
@MooingDuck Well, once you go SSD you can't go back
 
5:53 PM
I thought that was a good idea once too
 
@presiuslitelsnoflek nah it's not that fast
 
@Abyx Well I don't know how you're using it
But it sure made a difference for me
 
user1804599
@minitech Haskell is good choice.
 
dunno, I just... use it? and I don't feel any difference
 
@rightfold O RLY
 
user1804599
5:54 PM
O’Reilly.
 
@minitech yes
 
Haskell is a fantastic language
Now, the packages
 
@minitech fairytaleish
 
How do I convert a ResumableSource (ResourceT IO) ByteString into a Source IO (Flush Builder)? HMM?
 
"Now, the packages" is not a sentence
 
5:56 PM
That’s what I’ve been trying to do for the past two days
 
Just cast it!
 
Also, there is no Haskell HTTP client package that supports both TLS and IPv6
 
@minitech TLS is supported by Warp/WAI
And I'm pretty sure IPv6 is too.
 
… is Warp an HTTP client?
 
No, it's a server that "runs" WAI applications.
 
5:57 PM
why would a HTTP client library care about IPv6 or TLS? O.o
 
That’s what I thought
 
@jalf General culture
 
@jalf Well, ideally it shouldn’t, should it?
Unfortunately, all of them do, so
 
Wait what.
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey beh, why would you do that.
 
user1804599
5:58 PM
Just use Nginx as proxy and have it handle that.
 
@minitech What's "all of them"?
 
@Jefffrey To be precise, actually, the HTTP clients don’t.
 
@rightfold for a HTTP client?
 
The only TLS library that I’m aware of, however, cares very much.
 

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