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user1804599
9:00 AM
You would either get no extensibility or horrible user code.
 
user1804599
And friendship would be useful as well.
 
user1804599
Suikerberg.
 
Puppy didn't eat mortadella, I gave him a couple of slices but he pushed them on a stack. Old dog popped them pretty fast when he found it.
 
9:17 AM
I have no idea what mortadella is so of course I didn't eat it.
 
It's a kind of ham
Very thin and with pistachios
Delishus
 
eww.
 
@DeadMG you're not the only puppy
 
your lies hurt me in my soft and hurty place
 
Mortadella
Silly Scott
 
9:27 AM
@DeadMG sry my friend, you are special in many other ways
 
welp
time to launch Fail Seven and see how badly this goes
 
@presiuslitelsnoflek pistachios... as in the vegetarian muscle?
 
@thecoshman What?
 
@presiuslitelsnoflek come in a shell you don't eat, some refuse to be opened, and if you are quite honest, do not look like food.
 
@thecoshman You're weak
 
9:32 AM
@presiuslitelsnoflek They're still tasty, but really now, they look foul.
And you guys put them green things into ham... what madness
oh, is out unconference in June?
 
I might come
might
 
@presiuslitelsnoflek come or cum?
 
That's orthogonal
 
but you really should
I doubt this will ever happen again
What's changed your mind?
 
Bartek's sexy body
 
9:43 AM
o_0 I thought better of you
 
Just boredom
 
user1804599
@presiuslitelsnoflek I feel cheated on.
 
@rightfold We'll solve that in bed
 
user1804599
<3
 
¬_¬ it's just going to be one big orgy in @R.MartinhoFernandes house isn't it
 
user1804599
9:51 AM
I won’t be there.
 
user1804599
google.com/search?q=use-case+for+template+templates thank you for being so helpful Google!
 
10:02 AM
grrr
trying to get myself a sexy gravity slingshot from Mun and it's not easy
 
@Mysticial It's like 3 AM man.
What are you doing up?
 
user1804599
He’s not up. He just wrote a π-based AI.
 
The same thing we do every night, Rapptz — compute more digits of Pi!
 
user1804599
Mysticial can run an infinite loop in just under a minute.
 
10:08 AM
Mysticial has solved the halting problem.
 
@rightfold Or, we could just stay on-topic in Java sucks. It's not like Java has stopped sucking recently, has it?
^ the guy who invented Game of Life
 
did he won
 
It's not a game in the sense that you win or lose.
 
well it looks to me like he's losing
 
10:30 AM
Hello.
 
11:02 AM
@FredOverflow wat?
The way you present John effing Conway is "The guy who invented Game of Life"?
 
That dude has so many important discoveries and people know him for GoL :D
 
Curious question...
Why does referencing an object from a static member function null most of their variables?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Life is a game. Too bad some people don't realise that :p
 
I got this after a ton of debugging and just stared at it for a few minutes thinking, "Well... that's funny..."
 
11:06 AM
Play or be played
 
@Somberdon What do you mean? Doing this->... from within a static method?
 
your code is broken.
that's why.
 
Speaking of playing games... youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRRaXV-fg&feature=kp
Oh! Thanks, Dead!
And no, Lol. I haven't used this-> at all in it.
 
sbi
@Code-Guru He posted that question as "Bob the zealot". #just_saying
 
Well then I don't get your meaning can you please be more vague
 
11:08 AM
Let me try to explain better... Eh, it's perplexing. That's literally what it is
I usually don't like asking questions in here, but this has just stopped my program altogether.
 
sbi
@Jefffrey If you read last nights transcript, you will find that half of the God-appointed owners said they were way too terrified of the responsibility to be able to do anything to change the situation.
 
So I'm using the SDL library and to create a thread, you need a static member function or one similar. When I create the thread and the code splits, all of the variables from my Game object become null.
 
sbi
@Somberdon Sounds like a bug in your code.
 
3 mins ago, by DeadMG
your code is broken.
 
I'll probably just go to SO... I'd be too confusing to visualize without the snippet.
 
11:11 AM
did you ask on Stack Overflow
 
sbi
20 secs ago, by Somberdon
I'll probably just go to SO... I'd be too confusing to visualize without the snippet.
:P
 
Just curious if anyone heard of that behaviour before.
 
yeah, but my Internet dropped out for a second, so I have an excuse.
in fact, over here, it shows me first.
@Somberdon We have. It's called, "Your program is broken".
 
I'm really not trying to be annoying, I just wondered if anyone heard of it. I didn't plan on asking you guys to trouble-shoot my code for me.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Were any of those implemented as easter eggs in Gameboy modules such as R-Type?
(Yes, Gameboy R-Type has Game of Life as an easter egg.)
 
11:13 AM
@Somberdon Having heard of it is irrelevant. There are a hundred thousand causes. There's really absolutely nothing we can do.
 
Ah, sorry then.
 
I'm not saying "Your code is broken" for fun- well, I am- but there's nothing more it's possible for me to say.
 
Touche. Fair enough. If someone asked me a vague question like that, I'd likely have a similar response...
 
11:19 AM
ALT-0233
Touché, then, my apologies.
 
@sbi There's literally nothing you can do as a "mod/owner". The most "powerful" action you can perform is flagging; and that's not exclusive to owners.
 
user1804599
Douche.
 
sbi
@nightcracker It's less a question of liking (though I freely admit to be influenced by it), and more that I didn't think he'd make a good room owner. I was one of four people put in charge, two of which said they were afraid to do something, and one was "only at his desk for 10mins" (he was there when I logged in and it took me a while to catch up). So I installed what I think might be a good regime for the room, and withdrew – explicitly saying that I wouldn't mind if the new old owners disagree.
I think @Xeos idea is a good one, although when the owner rules where set into stone in this room (some of you were still spoon-fed pup by their mum back then), we explicitly mentioned that the current owners should (more or less) unanimously agree that a potential candidate is a good choice. And for good reason, I believe.
 
I don't see how "need to move some messages to the bin every month" or "need to pin important messages every 6 month" is a "huge responsibility".
Or "change the room topic to something controversial", that is. :P
 
sbi
@Jefffrey That's not true. For example, this room has been locked by the owners several times after it got mentioned on meta and a storm of assholes broke over it.
 
11:24 AM
obviously, the most important responsibility is to set the room name to something silly people find offensive :P
 
Room owners are getting better tools in the future.
According to Shog.
 
what, they'll actually implement a useful feature request?!
 
There's no future for SO.chat.
 
I'll believe that when I see it.
 
sbi
@Jefffrey I didn't say this is a "huge responsibility". I specifically referred you to a rather recent situation which was, though.
 
11:25 AM
Don't know how true it is, but I'll believe him naively at least for a little.
 
shrug I worked out alright as an op on IRC, 14 years ago. Y'know, at the risk of bringing actual facts into this.
hi guys
and bye again
 
I don't think any of us were there to observe it and agree or disagree, so it's more of an assertion
 
sbi
@Jefffrey Still, room owners are called upon when things get nasty, and get all the heat when doing "lesser responsibilities" (like binning messages, which tend to be considered unfair by those whose messages get binned). If you don't see this as a burden, you either are probably too young to understand.
 
@sbi What I'm saying is that locking every 6 month or pinning messages or changing room topic (split in like 10 people) is not a huge responsibility that needs 80 man hours a day.
@sbi I didn't say you did. You said that half of the owners "were way too terrified of the responsibility", and I think that either they were joking or I'm missing something.
 
whoa; this is still being discussed o_O
 
sbi
11:33 AM
@Jefffrey responsibility != workload
(For example, last Wednesday I had a 2hr job that weight me down for days.)
 
@sbi "you either are probably too young to understand" ... or?
 
sbi
@Jefffrey It seems you are missing something then. because they didn't joke.
 
But yeah, then I'm missing something.
 
c++ community is so bitchy lol ... linux community is worse though lol
 
sbi
@Jefffrey Well, I toned that down a tad before posting and obviously failed to fully adjust the grammar. :)
 
11:35 AM
@Wardy Best way to introduce yourself ;)
 
I have no sound here, I hope this is SFW :)
 
haha @Jefffrey why not ... isnt that the tone of the room
didn't want to turn up and be all polite ... might not go down too well
 
@FredOverflow Eh, it's just a guy shouting German at the camera.
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Safe enough for Germany, probably, and he's "ranting" in German.
 
user1804599
Angry German Kid.
 
user1804599
11:37 AM
@Wardy You should see the C, Java and PHP communities.
 
user1804599
C++’ is quite friendly compared to those.
 
Also most of the room owners didn't take a owner-action in forever (IIRC). The only "owners" I remember doing something are Cat (pinning messages) and DeadMG (binning, room topic). (except room name changes of course)
 
sbi
@DeadMG Different communities work differently and have different social traditions, rules, and conventions. Having been a moderator in one community doesn't necessarily qualify you for another one. (Otherwise we could give this room into the hands of the 4chan kids.)
 
user1804599
C# community is too much ermahgerd business.
 
@rightfold No wanking about lambdas and stuff?
 
user1804599
11:38 AM
No. :[
 
@Jefffrey Pfft.
Mysticial and I did porn cleanup!
 
user1804599
Not even abusing LINQ for monadic parser combinators!
 
@rightfold well im a C# developer so the only contact i have with java guys is them telling me microsoft ripped off their language, to which i reply ... "but they got it right at least" that usually kicks off a massive flame war!
 
@rightfold C# has reified generics. Certainly that's something cool to talk about?
 
php i dont consider professional unless you are the sort of person that likes writing your own compiler for it
and c ... no one even talks about that any more ... do they?
 
user1804599
11:40 AM
@FredOverflow I don’t see how it would be any more cool than “just sane and what you’d expect.”
 
im trying to think outside the box a little at the moment ... building games with c#
 
@rightfold You're right, I guess I'm "spoiled" of how awful Java's generics are.
 
that gives c++ guys something to laugh about
 
@Wardy You can write games in any programming language.
 
Well, okay. So I've mostly solved my own problem.
 
11:41 AM
@FredOverflow yeh you're right ... but normally any serious game is written in c++ ... although that trend is slowly changing
 
@Wardy But C++ is such a terrible language when it comes to being productive.
 
c++ was / used to be considered THE way to write fast code and games are all about performance
 
user1804599
s/performance/fun/
 
Not all games are about performance.
 
but hey if i was a C programmer i'd complain that c++ was slow
probably
 
11:42 AM
Also, C++ is not magically faster than other languages. It just gives you a lot more knobs you can dial.
 
@Wardy you have no clue
 
sbi
@DeadMG He yells "Weekend! Booze! No fucking shit work! I get mad! ..." and other nice things.
 
user1804599
@Wardy that’s the problem with the C community.
 
sbi
You know, what people think about the weekend that have a dumb job and whose weekend is exclusively used to drown the their consciousness of their shitty.
 
@FredOverflow yeh thats the point i've been making
@FredOverflow also depends if you need those dials
 
11:42 AM
I just can't get into C#. I think it's my aversion to Microsoft products in general and the trend of them being bulky, unintuitive and very restricting.
 
user1804599
They think C++ is somehow slower than C is, probably because templates have zero runtime overhead and void pointers have lots of runtime overhead.
 
@Somberdon The C# compiler was recently open-sourced. Does that help?
 
user1804599
Use F# not C#.
 
@Somberdon typically speaking i agree but you cant knock the fact that the microsoft ecosystem makes life easy to do simple things
no other ecosystem seems to do that
 
user1804599
@Wardy Simple things like building Roslyn on OS X didn’t work at all for me.
 
sbi
11:44 AM
@Jefffrey That I wouldn't know because I am here way too rarely nowadays. OTOH, you aren't here 24/7 either, and might miss the regular actions of room owners that are in a different timezone. (We did struggle to find room owners in non-European timezones at one point long ago, because the room being left untended when us Europeans went to bed became a problem.)
 
Eh... Personally, I'm all right with C++. I mean, I might make the stretch to better my Java skills sometime. Java's native cross-platform capabilities are its really strong point. No cross-compiling.
 
@rightfold yet
 
user1804599
@Wardy Python.
 
c++ introduces a lot of development overhead, no one can deny that.
 
@rightfold its just undergone a major rework .. might be better now ... but why have a mac in the first place ???
 
user1804599
11:44 AM
Scala. Clojure.
 
@rightfold i dont have a view of python
 
It's not so much the language itself as it's the fact a ton of the APIs I have to use are C apis.
 
user1804599
@Wardy because MacBooks are the only sane laptops that run Unix-based operating systems well.
 
sbi
@Somberdon So you found it while trying to distill a small repro to post at SO? :) What was it?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Write C++ APIs and share them with the world.
 
11:45 AM
@rightfold a macbook is a standard intel laptop ...
 
Python is really nice and easy to learn.
 
user1804599
At work I have a desktop with Gentoo (which is much better than OS X, but not on laptops).
 
Microsoft makes things easier, most of the time but with that simplicity and abstraction comes the troubles of not being able to dial in the fine details.
 
user1804599
@Wardy Yes the CPU architecture is the most important thing.
 
@Rapptz which brings me to the bigger problem - the ecosystem. On what package manager?
 
user1804599
11:46 AM
Usability is not at all important.
 
well, one more person my plonklist
 
@rightfold not to apple it aint
as long it looks cool
 
user1804599
I cannot work with Windows (need more Unix), and Linux on laptops is mediocre.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum The users will figure it themselves. Just put it on a site that hosts code.
 
sbi
Java cross-platform?? And here I though it only runs on a single platform nowadays. Or are there other JVMs than Oracle's still around?
 
11:46 AM
@Somberdon fun fact, they're rewriting half of asp.net - and dumping System.Web
 
user1804599
@ScarletAmaranth Goodbye Scarlet.
 
@rightfold not you; naturally
 
user1804599
<3
 
@Rapptz If only that worked :( Most languages make this far more trivial.
 
Man. You have other problems if that's difficult.
No offence.
 
11:47 AM
Not the putting it on the site part...
 
+1
lol
 
The getting adoption part, there is no big package ecosystem in c++
 
@sbi I found the right direction on a totally different question, actually, but it's still not transferring the variables properly. I'm going to keep working at it for a bit, see if I can't finagle the pointers into behaving themselves...
 
Okay. You want a library -- what do you do?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum use visual studio then you can use nuget
 
11:48 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Which is why most C++ programmers are pretty adept at getting around without one.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Sounds like a blast...
 
You look at the internet.
 
TIL Nutella production uses 25% of the world's hazelnuts.
 
Google, GitHub, Bitbucket, etc.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Wow. I didn't realize they put real hazelnuts into Nutella :)
 
user1804599
11:49 AM
Use Portage. vOv
 
If you see some random site that says "wrapper for X C api" would you grab it? I wouldn't. A 1 million downloads and 5000 depending packages would sure ease my mind.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit that sounds close to unbelievable
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum What are you afraid of, that it's secretly a virus?
 
sbi
@Somberdon The Problem with Microsoft is that they make it easier in a different way every other year. I have been programming on Windows since the early 90s, and I have seen so much stuff come and go, I have probably forgot most of it. You just can't keep up with them handing you a totally different set of shiny tools thrice in a decade – and it makes no sense to do so when at the same time you have technology available that might not be as shiny, but is proven and lasting.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit sauce?
 
11:49 AM
I would hazard that C++ is probably the best supported programming language in terms of resources.
 
user1804599
@BenjaminGruenbaum No, Nutella. The worst fucking crap you can put on your bread.
 
@DeadMG it not being tested well enough.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Stuff you put on your bread (spread?).
 
if I needed a wrapper for X API and I was bothered enough by this to not download myself
then I sure as hell would download it and give it a shot.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum How do you know anything is tested enough?
 
@rightfold I know people who eat it without bread. Mostly girls.
 
@sbi im with you on that
 
1 min ago, by Benjamin Gruenbaum
If you see some random site that says "wrapper for X C api" would you grab it? I wouldn't. A 1 million downloads and 5000 depending packages would sure ease my mind.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow slightly better, because bread is terrible.
 
@sbi I've always just hated the Windows API. I tried it once and won't touch it with a 10-foot pole. I'll let Qt do the work if I really need GUI desperately.
 
11:50 AM
I don't have a primary source though
 
lmao
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit shit, now I have to go eat some Nutella.
 
How many downloads does that C API have?
 
sbi
@Somberdon My toenails curly every time you refer to "transferring variables" between threads. I feel like either I misunderstand what you're referring to or you failed to grasp something fundamental about threads.
 
user1804599
Fuck GUIs.
 
11:51 AM
How do you know how many downloads it has? And how is this any different from C++?
 
@rightfold What do you prefer over bread?
I like salad. It's Urin-complete and solves the salting-problem.
 
lol
 
@sbi Sorry, that's just the way it goes in my head. Like a pointer hand-off. I know it's not right, but it's the same function.
 
@Rapptz for some reason idiots some developers think it's ok to release one API for both C and C++ and I have to work with raw pointers and void pointers and all that fun, usually the first thing I do is write a wrapper.
 
@Somberdon why are you using the windows API for gui stuff ?
 
user1804599
11:52 AM
@FredOverflow breakfast, lunch or dinner?
 
shouldn't be there in the first place surely
 
Or are you telling me you never had to write these annoying wrappers?
 
@rightfold either
 
@Wardy I'm not. Lol.
 
who does that?
 
11:53 AM
I'm telling you that I don't care about download count when I look at a library.
 
As far as I'm concerned, Winblows can burn.
 
im sure thats one of the main reasons microsoft invented .net .. so people would stop talking to crappy windows api's
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
With a salad.
 
11:53 AM
@rightfold stop that im hungry
 
that looks gorgeous
 
mm; tasty salad
 
.Net's only a marginal improvement.
 
@Somberdon what's up with .net ?
i like it
 
user1804599
11:54 AM
SCALA
 
user1804599
OMG
 
like others have said ... its improved every year
 
@Wardy Well, there again, I likely don't have enough experience with it to like it. I just tend to avoid Microsoft stuff altogether when I can.
 
@Wardy Er... what do you think .NET does?
all C# APIs are implemented on top of WinAPI
 
user1804599
@DeadMG Yes, so people don’t have to anymore.
 
11:55 AM
eh
 
@DeadMG nothing really ... its not much more than an abstraction layer over the OS but it does have some cool libs ... linq i use all the time
 
there's nothing fundamentally different about a C# wrapper than a C++ wrapper.
 
user1804599
They talk to abstractions over them.
 
the only difference is that Microsoft ship a C# wrapper and not a C++ wrapper.
 
user1804599
@DeadMG No one said anything about C++ wrappers.
 
11:56 AM
he said they invented .NET to get away from Windows API.
it doesn't get you away from Windows API any more than C++ does.
 
@Wardy To be fair, I would be ashamed of Microsoft even more if it didn't at least do SOMETHING well.
 
so that's clearly not why they did it.
 
user1804599
Yes, so? C++ is not mentioned anywhere there.
 
@DeadMG no i said "to get people talking to something other than the winAPI"
 
user1804599
@DeadMG They could have used Haskell instead of C++ too.
 
11:57 AM
the idea being that before .net people typically just bolted code on to a shoddy win API
 
user1804599
There’s no inherent reason to use C++ instead of another language to build abstractions over the C API.
 
Really, it's hard to use one without using the other. If you use .net, it's bound to abstract SOME kinda of WinAPI routine.
 
hmmm
 
@rightfold Well, there is if you're Microsoft in 2000, which is that you already ship and sell a C++ compiler, environment, tools, etc, to use, and you don't have to invent a whole new language and platform and support libraries and tools for the same effect.
 
i have a bit of programmers block going on
 
sbi
11:58 AM
 
user1804599
You can if it’s the best option.
 
@sbi What... what is that magnificence?...
 
sbi
I wouldn't know. I hate that vile stuff.
 
user1804599
But yeah blabla C++ is always blabla best option blablabla for everything blabla.
 
yeah that's totally the argument that I just made.
in a not-at-all kind of way.
 
11:59 AM
C++ is probably one of the most common options, to be fair.
 

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