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6:01 PM
in my highschool we managed the school network, procured servers, did cabling for the IT classroom and programmed web-based information systems. that was in the last millennium
 
on comodore ? :P
 
of course the teachers couldn't teach us
Pentium II, III already existed...
 
In my high school the most advanced computer class I took was typing. Probably my most useful class, honestly.
 
in 2000 we got fibre. That was cool. Ah and we did code a "high school lpmud"
 
I was kidding, yeah but the first PCs had really good user manuals, programming manuals and you could learn it all from low level point of view, which is pretty cool, because now everything has too much abstraction.
 
6:04 PM
I have 3 C64s yes
 
We have one in school, but it doesn't work..I'd like to play with it
anyone repairs those these days?
 
It seems likely to me. Vintage console communities never die, they just dwindle asymptotically towards zero
 
@MarkoMackic what are the symptoms?
 
This looks handy. You can tell it's legit because the page styling looks like it came from 1995.
 
6:09 PM
I didn't turn it on, but I think it won't give any signs of life
 
In that case, your first assignment is to turn it on.
 
Probably needs a firmware upgrade.
have you synced it with the cloud recently?
 
You need to download a 2GB patch from the Commodore 64 home server.
 
@MarkoMackic fuse in the power supply...
 
6:12 PM
Don't know where to find that many magnetic diskets :D
@AnttiHaapala I really will check :) Do you have original manual?
 
I do. In Finnish :D
 
perkele
there must be some on-the-fly translating apps, right?
 
This looks relevant. lemon64.com/manual
 
I found it in pdf
 
DSM
I learned how computer internals worked from this book.
 
I might have a c64 in the basement myself
 
DSM
Wish I'd kept my copy. Then I could have sold it for 271.34$CDN as well!
 
@Kevin yeah got that in Finnish as printware.
had the manual been in English I'd probably not have understood half of it
 
I thought you northeners were very keen on English from a young age:)
 
6:17 PM
when I started programming with C64, my biggest confusion was about "how can letters be numbers"
 
all the Finns seem to speak great English
 
I was always interested in building relay computer myself :D I've read this book years ago fastchip.net/howcomputerswork/bookbpdf.pdf and it still interests me.
 
wow, the question that poke said is offtopic and not reproduceable and what not... well my accepted answer is at +24 now
 
@MarkoMackic have you seen the nand2tetris project?
 
lol C n00b posts a question that starts with "Program to print a 3X3 array dynamically using pointers.I want reasons as to why my code is working and i want detailed explanation"
 
6:25 PM
I'll google
 
I really cannot explain why or how your code is working, because to me it looks broken. — Antti Haapala 1 min ago
 
is working?
 
ehh:D
"I want detailed explanation" --> slap them with a trout
 
I wonder if that's the same Pranav that I went to school with
doubt it
but he wasn't any use, either
 
I usually respond with "I want pizza" to questions like this
 
6:27 PM
"Why does this code work?" requires a quick trip through the topics of programming, formal logic, electronics, chemistry, biology, physics, and philosophy.
 
:D
start at the end -> what is "working"?
spares you the trouble with the rest
 
But even then there's going to be some fundamental questions unanswered, like "how can an omnibenevolent creator create a universe that permits the existence of buggy programs?"
And ofc the Problem of eval
 
should be array[3*y + x] or something, they use array[x + y] and say that it works. Well, good for you!
"Anyone can share parallel version of kruskal algorithm in c/c++ with posix thread and GPU implementation."
 
well it's giving OP an answer, just not the answer to their question
 
and deleted.
that didn't live too long
 
6:33 PM
Has anyone build a multiplayer pong game with python? I can't think of any efficient way to move the ball using P2P.
 
idontunderstandwhysomanyposterstodaycannotbbotheredtopostcoethatiseasytoreadfort‌​hoseexperiencedandskilledengineerswhohavesmelittletimetosparetohelpotehrstomeitsa‌​busiveanddemeaning — Martin James 41 secs ago
 
Martin's great:D
 
of course he already had me at his avatar
 
@JustasSame Well show us the inefficient approach you have now and we'll see if it can be improved.
 
6:36 PM
deleted comment:(
 
People is P2P possible when your ISP doesn't allow port forwarding?
 
18
A: What can we do to keep Stack Overflow sites friendly to newcomers and clean of spam at the same time?

Martin JamesExamples please. Hiding behind 'naming and shaming' will not do. If the commenters' behaviour is that bad, then name them. Post links to questions where you find unjustified downvotes etc. (Note: 'unjustified' - general noob downvotes is easy - just block-copy the C tag). If you do not, the...

 
@AnttiHaapala for a moment there I thought he wrote the question
I was very surprised by the title:D
 
:D
@AndrasDeak stackoverflow.com/questions/36383503/… can you see this?
ah not, you're at 8.1k
"Update: In here, it is explained why math is not working for 0.1+0.2 == 0.3. My question is, how it is working in first case i.e 0.5 + 0.4 == 0.9."
 
yeah:(
it sucks
@AnttiHaapala meeeeh not another one
wait this is an extra kind of stupid
 
6:40 PM
so the guy is asking "0.1 + 0.2 == 0.3" is broken, then closed as a duplicate of "is floating point math broken"
then edits the question to complain that the dupe is invalid as his question actually is that why it isn't always broken :D
 
@Kevin my code is rather long and might be difficult to understand since some variable names are in my native language. The program works like this:
Players connect to server -> Server sends each player other's address -> Players start communicating via UDP sending their platform coordinates. The ball is moving in each client independently, although it moves at the same speed and starts moving at the same direction.
 
@AnttiHaapala bah
 
@JustasSame does udp work from client to client
 
I've seen similar stubborn stupids in
 
@JustasSame "some variable names are in my native language"... thta is a mistake
 
6:42 PM
In his defense, it is slightly unintuitive that 0.4 + 0.5 == 0.9 if you just learned that neither 0.4 nor 0.9 have exact binary representations.
 
where they said "yes I know of floating point arithmetic, but how can I use 12.3 exactly?"
 
It just so happens that their imprecise representations differ by exactly 0.5
 
@AnttiHaapala The program is for my school project, so it will be easier for class mates to understand :D
 
wim
@AnttiHaapala I think it's a fair question
 
LEt me agree with wim :D
 
6:43 PM
@Kevin I think the only reasonable expectation after learning about floating point is "anything can happen"
 
@wim it is a duplicate of the "is floating point math broken"
 
ooh, def function
I was expecting def def():, was disappointed
 
Hmm, it seems like it would be quite tricky to synchronize the game state without making one peer have the "authoritative" game state.
 
@JustasSame what is the problem with your app
 
wim
6:48 PM
The key is that 0.5 has an exact representation in base2 , and an answer should start along those lines
 
Suppose player A moves his paddle at 12:00:0000, just barely making it to the ball in time to reflect it. He sends a packet to player B saying "I moved my paddle here". Player B receives the packet at 12:00:0001 and moves the paddle, just barely missing the ball.
Now you have two game states with different outcomes, even though they both evaluated all logic flawlessly.
 
@MarkoMackic There is no problems with my app. It's problem with me actually :D I can't think about the way to move the ball correctly
@Kevin Yes, that's why I am trying to find out how to fix that :D
 
That's why you do things like calculate drift
 
well how do MMOs fix this? With a third, server machine?
 
But suppose that you made player B the Holder of the Authoritative Game State. He receives the packet at 12:00:0001 and moves the paddle, and determines that it barely missed the ball. He sends a packet to player A saying "you probably thought you just barely reached the ball, but you actually didn't. Sorry, please fix your incorrect game state"
 
6:50 PM
it's complicated
 
cbg all
 
@AndrasDeak I expect the vast vast majority of MMOs aren't peer-to-peer. So all clients defer final say to the single server.
 
yeah, that's what I kinda meant, thanks
 
I will try out Kevin's idea, thanks for help :)
 
6:53 PM
@Kevin your approach would also mean that player B experiences flawless gameplay, but minor glitches might come about for player A, right?
especially for lousy connections
 
Yeah. That's what happens when you have a high ping rate in FPSs
which has happened to me more than once
 
@WayneWerner played that on LAN, but never over the internet
 
+1 to Wayne's suggestion of drift calculation. If you know ahead of time that there's typically a 0.01 second lag when sending packets between players, then clients can factor that in and reduce the likelihood of state desync.
 
although a lot of games try to compensate... which makes things awkward as heeeeeck.
 
@Kevin they called it prediction in the Source engine
 
6:54 PM
i.e. I've died before when I haven't been out of cover
 
You could change a variable to change how far ahead it would predict, and make other players move smoother but you'd be less likely to hit them
 
or on the plus side, I've probably been shot before but it missed me because I was never actually "there"
 
In the case of Pong, the game state is kind of simple It's only the last time the ball was hit, velocity, current time, and current paddle position. You just have to make the returning player the authority whenever the ball changes direction.
 
+1 for that idea
 
@QuestionC oh that sounds nice
(to a layman)
 
6:55 PM
I might see you hit the ball when it should have missed, or miss the ball when it should have hit, but I'll never see myself miss a hit ball or hit a missed ball.
 
Yeah, that does make life a lot simpler. And unless your ball is travelling exceedingly fast, you'll always be able to send the 'hit' packet
next step: anti-cheat ;)
 
@QuestionC Nice. Still have few days before handing in the project, so I will try to make this happen :D
 
Basically, yea. Don't treat ball position as a state element, make it derive from when it was last hit, velocity, and current time.
 
If the ball travels faster than the speed of light in a copper medium, then it will reach the other player before the "I relinquish authority to you" packet :-P
 
copper is not transparent *irritated emoticon*
at least in the visible spectrum:P
I don't know its plasma frequency.
OK, it's transparent in UV and above
 
6:59 PM
They've calculated the speed of light as it passes through lead, so I assume conventional visibility isn't a real concern
 
yeah, it's frequency-dependent
 
s/calculated/measured/, I expect
 
Got to go, thanks for help guys :)
 
if the frequency of the incoming light is considerably larger than the plasma frequency of the quasielectrons in the metal, then they can't screen out the EM field and light can penetrate the bulk
 
I know some of those words.
 
7:00 PM
or something
 
ibiblio.org/harris/500milemail.html relevant to the current discussion about light and copper
 
@WayneWerner niiice:D
 
A fine piece of programmer lore.
 
good thing they had a geostatistician:P
 
wim
Why oh why do so many noobs want to turn strings into variable names?
How do they all manage to find this 'noob design pattern' and then stumble around trying to implement the crazy idea
 
7:13 PM
Because they learn about scalar types and then think "wow it would be really nice if I could store an unlimited amount of data" before they get to the next chapter on vector types
 
wim
but how can you learn anything about python and not know about lists or dicts
 
By reading half of the tutorial.
 
not even half
 
By being shortly before the point where you learn about lists or dicts.
 
wim
Seriously? I thought list , which is so crucial, should be page 0
 
7:15 PM
That could be an entire week or more if it's an elective class in high school or something.
 
wim
omg , the actual python tutorial starts with a page of waffle
 
(It's chapter 3.1.3, for anyone wondering about its actual position)
 
wim
then goes on to stuff like

# -*- coding: iso-8859-15 -*-

currency = u"€"
print ord(currency)

before even mentioning lists
what the actual fuck
Tutorial was obviously written by someone(s) who have long since forgotten what it's like to be a n00b
 
Curse Of Knowledge. Pretty typical in this field.
 
Any method whose name begins and ends with __ would require this treatment. Because of the double underscores, these are sometimes called "dunder" methods. "Dirty deeds and their dunder chief!" — kindall 5 mins ago
what a great reference haha
 
7:20 PM
I'm not sure where you're seeing that. The 3.5 tutorial spends a while talking about strings, ints, and basic methods and then gets right into data structures and control flow.
 
wim
they have talked about *unpacking and lambda before they even mention dicts in section 5.5
 
The first real page of the tutorial teaches about lists.
 
@idjaw I made that joke four years ago but unfortunately I can't link it because chat search is terrible.
Oh, here it is. As usual, me complaining about a thing not working spontaneously causes that thing to work.
Nov 6 '14 at 20:20, by Kevin
Remember the words of AC/DC: "dirty deeds: dunder [methods are] cheap"
 
Nov 6 '14 at 20:20, by Kevin
Remember the words of AC/DC: "dirty deeds: dunder [methods are] cheap"
 
haha awesome
 
7:24 PM
Four years ago eh.
Back in 2014.
 
"search for 'dunder' said by 'Kevin'" is difficult to execute because there are like thirty Kevins in the dropdown.
 
I still don't understand the Kevinendar.
@Kevin I searched for deeds and found it.
 
Good idea.
 
@wim I think you're looking at the 2.x tutorial. The 3.x tutorial mentions dictionaries (admittedly somewhat in passing) in section 4.7.2
 
I take a lot of my vacation hours in the hyperbolic time chamber, so my personal chronology doesn't match up nicely to terrestrial timekeeping.
 
7:26 PM
Fizzy. I don't think you can argue that answer.
 
Not to mention fantastical beings pulling me into wardrobes all the time so I can save their realm from encroaching darknesses etc.
 
What can't I argue now?
I can argue anything.
 
@Kevin: There's an option to search by user.
 
@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino Another thing that can be solved by using Python3 instead ;)
 
I tried searching by 953482 but it didn't work and then I gave up.
 
7:28 PM
For example, on your chat profile, the "search for messages containing" thing searches for messages by you and you alone.
 
Ooh, I should remember that for next time.
 
I wonder if google search works as well as for chat as regular SO
 
Achievement Unlocked 25G - Infect entire household with flu virus
just got called to pick up daughter from daycare. That completes the cycle. Success.
 
You fluzy.
That was real cold of you.
 
Sickness as a Service, MVP has been released
 
7:31 PM
Agent idjaw. Vector of Plagues, Defeater of Infants.
 
I'm pretty sure all the transcripts are crawled by the googlebots but limiting your search to a single room is a bit of a schlep.
You can't just do "site:http://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/6/"
 
mmm... true story
does make it more difficult
quick, make https even harder! chat.6.stackoverflow.com \o/
 
@Kevin It also doesn't work if you leave off the http.
 
hmhmmh
mm maybe i down/close/delv some then start working again
 
one programming practice that really annoys me: magical file placement. Eg, "if you put the file here, it will magically do this specific thing"
 
7:35 PM
finally finished live hardware interface knjigazaknjigu.com/pk/test.php try a bit pressing "Upali diodu" makes my led turn on, and the other turns it off. I need to check does it work remotely
yeah, someone has entered :D
 
me
hehe yay
 
Thanks :) works :)
 
awesome
 
wim
@corvid thats the linux sysadmin design pattern
 
yeah, I've been working on it long, it's for my remote control of house project :D
 
7:37 PM
@wim yeah but with this one framework, it says things like "if you put your files in any other directory than the one named 'imports/', we'll automatically load it", which seems dumb because there's already an import statement...
 
we could communicate if i knew morse :D
 
PHP? Sadness :( ;)
 
what to do, python is acctualy the backend
 
.. / .-.. --- ...- . / -.-. .... .. -.-. -.- . -.
 
7:41 PM
Use Flask/Bottle/<microframework of choice>? (or even just the CGI module ;)
 
Why not just websockets? then html would be frontend?
I mean I was to lazy to rework it, but I'm planning to do it, because it would be much more efficient :)
 
@MarkoMackic "remote control house" --> puts button on the internet --> ... :D
 
DOn't play with my led :P
 
and now we all have the URL. Let us know when you've connected it to your heating
:D
 
and alarm system
and automatic dog food dispenser
 
7:43 PM
especially the dog food
 
@idjaw -.-- -.-- --..
 
yeah, don't let Jon Clements see that
 
C'mon, you're Canadian, you know the only real morse code pattern. ;)
 
Yeah :P don't worry, It's I'll probably change the password till then :P
 
I didn't see no password:P
 
7:44 PM
Look in code :)
It's embedded, that's why it's test :P
be there for a sec
What do you see now?
 
client not online:(
boooo
 
and look now
 
Imma h4x you up, k1d
> NIJE MOGUCE USPOSTAVITI VEZU SA SERVEROM
couldn't send something to server?
 
lol That means unable to connect to server
 
nye mogu postavit' za serverom
 
7:47 PM
Wait, so "cikcamokram98" isn't your password any more?
 
yeah, the password is only pressent when client is hooked up
it's realtime, you set it, unset, in seconds :P
 
it's in the php still
 
@poke wow, what a question
so many wrong answers
 
> function switchDeviceState(uid,password,devid,state){
> ...
> switchDeviceState(1,"cikcamokram98",2,1);}
 
7:48 PM
yeah the first is user id, then password, then dev id, and state
 
@AndrasDeak JavaScript*.
 
sorry, I'm webprog illiterate
among other *prog illiterate qualities:P
 
cbg
 
\o @poke
 
7:50 PM
@davidism wow, is a MESS
 
oh, you just noticed :-(
 
To all those answerers: Please stop guessing your answers! Read the question and try to understand what the actual issue here is. OP mentions clearly mentions that request.json['story_text'] fails because request apparently is a function. So please stop trying to guess possible solutions completely ignoring that fact! — poke 1 min ago
 
same rep whores on the loose, or just everybody's gone mad?
 
Usually it's just the questions that are bad, this many bad answers is rare.
 
7:53 PM
cbg
 
What’s saddening me is that there’s some 300k rep guy in those answers.
del-voting those answers.
 
oh, I see...
 
one more cv
 
done
 
one more answer to nuke
 

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