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19:00
EG my-svc.my-namespace.svc.cluster.local
not always the full name, although I usually do, but there's also an env variable you can use
Oracle is now going to sue people for using JavaScript snippets
because they look like Java too
@Cereal okay, so back up then. because I understood the problem completely different
@ShrekOverflow nahh, they'll sue because you used the
@ssube Haven't really done anything with the env, any chance you can point me in the right direction?
19:01
I want to change the room name
before they sue us
I'm for changing it just to spite them
Hi everyone I'm looking for a part time node developer anyone for the it?
room topic changed to JavaScript Please don't sue us Oracle: Topic: JavaScript, ECMAScript. Read this: javascriptroom.github.io/rules. Before asking inform yourself on the XY problem goo.gl/taIqf | devdocs.io Documentation™ Helps. Room meta discussions: github.com/JavaScriptRoom/culture. How to format code in chat: sopython.com/wiki/… [ecmascript] [ecmascript-6] [javascript] [nodejs]
19:02
@SterlingArcher was posted for the squirrel, but holy shit you need that tshirt
room topic changed to JavaScript: Topic: JavaScript, ECMAScript. Read this: javascriptroom.github.io/rules. Before asking inform yourself on the XY problem goo.gl/taIqf | devdocs.io Documentation™ Helps. Room meta discussions: github.com/JavaScriptRoom/culture. How to format code in chat: sopython.com/wiki/… [ecmascript] [ecmascript-6] [javascript] [nodejs]
@KendallFrey nowai
Or rather JavaScript[tm] is a registered trademark of Oracle
@ShrekOverflow old
was already done. joke was made
Gah
OracleScript?
19:03
@rlemon Is that a squirrel?
yes
Hold on, the reaction isn't triggering from the login either
Something's fucky
baby squirrels will climb people
@rlemon find it and I'll buy it
19:03
You people really have it all. Squirrels, A8Ls, ...
@ShrekOverflow OgreScript
@OliverSalzburg ohh lordy that's not me
@OliverSalzburg squirrels driving audis
@rlemon nice beard
also fuck squirrels. trash destroying bastards
19:04
why do you think the blinker is always on and they never stop for lights? gotta get them nuts
worse than raccoons
@rlemon holy shit right
@rlemon Then why are you posting pictures of other dudes?
they ate a hole into my trash can
@OliverSalzburg I said why
2 mins ago, by rlemon
@SterlingArcher was posted for the squirrel, but holy shit you need that tshirt
19:04
so occasionally I take the trash out and one goes flying out when I reach for the lid (usually at night)
> was posted [on reddit] for
Oh. The topic change was distracting me
@ssube before this house we'd keep our trash on the patio (top floor apartment) and those bastards would climb the balcony to get it
> ORDER COMPLETE
Thanks!
\o/
19:07
Is it just me or Bill Nye can be insanely annoying - youtube.com/watch?v=Agdvt9M3NJA ?
Fixed it. The actual bug was the modal was disappearing, even though it was set to show.
@ShrekOverflow all pr scientists can be.
@rlemon makes sense
Bill Nye has gone especially bad recently
@Luggage did you watch his netflix show?
19:09
some of it...
@Luggage so has NDT
for a number of years now
NDT is just repetitive and overrated, but generally OK. Bill Nye has gone full cringe.
not Sagan tho
NDT just likes to chime in on way too many things without concrete understanding. I assume most people do that, but I judge him more because he's a public figure head
It's pretty annoying that he thinks he's Sagan too.
19:11
Apr 10 at 11:59, by Kendall Frey
what the fuck my skype just committed suicide
did it again
why skype?
work related?
did it leave a note?
what do you mean?
@KendallFrey 32-bit?
Apr 10 at 11:59, by Ben Fortune
Did it leave a note?
19:12
omg lol
funny guy, Ben.
Thanks
@ssube yeah?
have many/large monitors? there are some memory bugs
could be unrelated, but theregister.co.uk/2018/04/11/…
that's not skype
and it's not like it's crashing, it just... logs out and shuts down
19:14
have you checked for a rootkit?
towc hacked you
A new SO blog is out and once again, it's pointing fingers stackoverflow.blog/2018/04/26/…
4
@SterlingArcher after the twitter rantings I'm staying out of that
!!undo
19:16
@SterlingArcher wut
@SterlingArcher they don't know about 2.9
@KevinB she answered a java q with js
user1596138
@SterlingArcher They are a truly bizarre company
java script
user1596138
> The real problem isn’t the community — it’s us:
user1596138
19:18
In context that makes no sense
@rlemon did you see my new golf balls?
I already gave up on flagging main site because they're pricks about what flag you use
even tho the content is needing of intervention
@SterlingArcher yes
s/new golf//
@SterlingArcher Did you take the Implicit Bias Test?
How else do you know if someone bias considers you bias?
@Allenph the what?
19:19
Bottom of that blog.
user1596138
> If you’re shaking your head thinking, “not me,” I’d encourage you to take these implicit bias tests,
user1596138
I wasn't thinking "not me" I was thinking "Well yeah shit users and vamps are shit users and vamps and always will be"
user1596138
How about discourage them even more lmao
user1596138
They just wanna act like everyone is equal when to put it blunt they are not.
@Jhawins I like the passive aggressiveness that always exists in these messages.
19:22
@rlemon What are you talking about sweetie?
@Allenph that everyone is wrong, just some of us don't realise it yet
life is best-guess
@rlemon that's different
> Your data suggest a moderate automatic preference for Thin people over Fat people.
I disagree.
> If you’re shaking your head thinking, “not me,” I’d encourage you to take these implicit bias tests, specifically the Race IAT and the Gender-Career IAT. If you’re like me, they’re going to hurt.
19:28
s/thin/healthy/
s/fat/unhealthy/
the full quote is riding the line of accusation that people who said "not me" are wrong, but don't know it. and anyone who didn't say "not me" is by definition wrong based on the article above.
I understand it says "like me", but that doesn't change the feeling it bestows
I don't know how much faith I put into a test that tries to trick you up, then compares the tricks
everyone has some bias, and probably some they don't know about, which is interesting. This trend of running it through janky ML to give you a shittiness score is pretty shitty.
Pretty sure all you guys just brushed over the article and the last paragraph is the only thing you full read
As you should
19:30
@OliverSalzburg I read the first paragraph, two in the middle, and the last
worked in HS book reports, works here.
Bias is one thing, but it doesn't mean you act on it
first and last are all that matter, that's how SO came to be
@SterlingArcher if you haven't thought about it, you are more likely to, so looking at it is interesting
I also kept up with the Tim / Joel thing on Twitter while it happened.
that was some weird drama
I mean, honestly, who gives a shit. Unwelcoming elitist know-it-alls made the site. He's whining about people building houses out of wood
> Let’s stop judging users for not knowing things. (We’re a Q&A site!) It makes me sad when someone get downvoted for posting a duplicate.
I actively downvote all duplicates
19:32
that's just objectively wrong. We're a QA site, not a duplicate site.
maybe people shouldn't get so upset over downvotes.
I thought we were supposed to like duplicates
have we tried that yet?
Close them but like them
there's a close reason and a special privilege to fix the problem the people who wrote that encourage
19:32
@KevinB teach these people downvotes don't hurt you
It means the user hasn't done enough damn research and expects us to do it for them
I don't think anybody takes into account how much effort it takes to sweep up these duplicates, or new questions that could be googled
@SterlingArcher oh, the mods do
ever read their meta posts? they're all bitter af
@BenFortune or it means that they don't know enough about what they don't know about to ask to question properly
@MikeTheLiar I'm all for that, but most of the time that's not the case
19:33
@SterlingArcher they wanted us to maintain things for them, so we did. the people who were not invited to help maintain (based on rep, which they don't gain asking dupes) get pissy because they didn't follow the rules.
@ssube because doing repetitive tasks is not healthy
the hoity toity office folk in charge of the whole thing don't seem to get it, though
Guys, guys...who doesn't want to be the Yahoo Answers of coding? I mean really.
My most viewed question by far was almost immediately closed as a dupe
But I was okay with that because I still got the information I was looking for
@MikeTheLiar there are dupers and dupees, and you are a dupee
wanna buy some water filters?
19:34
I've got skooma, I think I'm all set.
You, me and dupee
the only thing I can think of to make the site 'friendlier' to new people, is to have more focus on a reopen queue
lots of questions closed. no one makes them better because there is little point in doing that without an audience to open it again
Jesus I asked this question almost six years ago
@SterlingArcher fuck, what an unpleasant test
How often does a question get closed that shouldn't have been closed?
19:35
@Allenph that's not the point
we encourage them to edit and improve the question. not abandon it
When I look at my SO questions I cringe because of how stupid they are in retrospect
@rlemon the re-open queue is fine actually, I'd say < 1% is worth even considering reopening though
^ That.
@SterlingArcher fine in that it exists. not fine in that it isn't a focus
@Allenph I've accidentally nuked a couple, but I always vote to re-open
user1596138
19:36
@BenFortune What the fuck lol don't downvote duplicates??
I have to go looking for it.
user1596138
SO just isn't a good platform in an active sense
@KendallFrey yeah man, putting bad words above a fat person, and good words over a thin person, then switching, and comparing mistakes doesn't seem that complete
@Jhawins dupes aren't inherently bad
user1596138
In a historical sense yea it is helpful. But actively using it is a shothole
19:36
Like I understand the logic, but there's too many test taking variables to consider dropping a bias bomb on you
@Jhawins Why not? People doing that and punishing me for being a moron is what made me start asking decent questions when I was like 13.
user1596138
@Allenph Yeah I'm asking the same question
My main concern with closing questions isn't as much about quality as it is about effort. Did they even consider searching google or reading docs before asking something that's obviously been answered before
@SterlingArcher I just got bored halfway through
user1596138
@ndugger THIS
19:37
lol
@Jhawins Oh. I was confused.
user1596138
They want to actively encourage less effort required from users
user1596138
They want to cater to the shittiest of the community lol. More ads ig
> It makes me sad when someone get downvoted for posting a duplicate
19:38
they want to encourage questions because all the easy good ones have run out
@SterlingArcher I'm guessing that the first round is always training the taker to associate fat with bad.
Isn't that part of what downvotes are for?
@Jhawins with the masquerade of being nice. I can't imagine some of the power users who spend a lot of time in these queues will enjoy being slapped for their work
Are we supposed to encourage duplicates?
so the only way to get more is to allow bad ones
19:38
FFS IS NO ONE READING WHAT I'M SAYING
@KendallFrey actually mine was good fat associated first
So forget about variables, check for explicit bias in the test
@SterlingArcher oh weird
user1596138
-5
A: Should we downvote duplicates?

Lightness Races in OrbitA duplicate is the most obvious indication that no research effort has been made. So, absolutely, downvote away.

> hurr durr dupes are bad and you should feel bad
user1596138
That user lol
19:38
and you still failed?
@MikeTheLiar There's an option to close as a duplicate for a reason. Nobody is saying that we should shit on these users, but downvoting seems appropriate to me
@KendallFrey don't bias shame
Some dupes are actually just not worded as perfectly as a question that came later which gained more interest
I don't know. People shitting on me also helped significantly.
some dupes are really false dupes
user1596138
19:40
2
A: Should we downvote duplicates?

Peter AjtaiAccording to the text displayed if one hovers over the down vote option, down votes should be doled out if a question is, Unclear or not useful. So, if, in your opinion a duplicate question is not useful (or unclear) then down vote away.

@Allenph Same, but now people have fragile feelings apparently
user1596138
Perfect
@ndugger did you bother to read the meta post I linked above?
they were asked FIRST but then reference some "better" question later, so in reality it's kind of bs
the ones that irk me are when the title of the question when put into the search gives you the answer. those are pretty obvious lack of effort posts.
19:40
@KendallFrey to be fair prefering a healthy person isn't a bad thing IMO
I was shit on so hard when I was first learning
@Loktar Absolutely. It's a Q&A website, people should be able to find it with a clear and concise question
@MikeTheLiar I opened it in a new tab and then didn't read it
It's not like I treat fat people with disdain... shit I'm overweight, and I recognize that it's bad for me.
@BenFortune sure, but then it's not technically a dupe
some are worded perfectly fine
19:40
Doesn't mean your a different person.
A shithead is a shithead not matter the gender, race, size, etc.
@Loktar I don't think the main concern is with closing, rather downvoting.
!!afk beach
other people just wanted more rep so perfectly articulate some question, answer it themselves, then get people to dupe the other.
@MikeTheLiar lol, that question itsself was closed as a duplicate
Oh yeah, close dupes
19:41
they didn't say closing was mean, just downvotes
Dupes should definitely be closed
And not answered
What are we supposed to downvote for then?
Let's just take away downvotes /s
I'll downvote everything that I deem is low quality or shouldn't exist, like a dupe
19:41
Exactly @BenFortune.
Rep is SO currency, losing currency is a negative action
user1596138
Too slow @flagger
it annoys people
> Downvotes are racist
Downvotes are for poor people.
19:42
only on questions
@SterlingArcher I was gonna link you to that tumblr but it's behind a NSFW wall now
answer downvotes are for rich people
They should turn rep into a cryptocurrency to encourage people
don't be so insensitive, mike. You need to take the bias quizes
Idea: put upvotes and downvotes on users directly.
19:43
@BenFortune isn't it already?
it's proof of posting
Idea: closed questions no longer have vote scores.
@rlemon But how will I know which one to copy and paste :(
@SterlingArcher not even in your opinion dude.. it's biology
@Loktar SterlingArcher is afk: beach
@rlemon Or cap it, or have a rep penalty for having a question closed.
19:43
@BenFortune "questions"
answers are fine. but the question was marked dupe
Still need some negative thing to happen.
Oh, I assumed they'd have answers
yes, answers still have a score. but the dupe doesn't. because it is the same question
I assumed that if you wipe out Q votes, you should wipe out A votes on that
otherwise FGITW keep points after OP loses them
@BenFortune I mean it's sort of like that in the sense that newer accounts have a much harder time generating rep lol
19:44
@Loktar Bias quiz time.
@Loktar HAES SHITLORD
answerers should get pinged when a Q gets closed, too
just kidding
@Loktar Just gotta get lucky haha, 90% of my rep is from 2 shitty answers
although that might lead to FGITWses re-opening them
19:45
Closed questions should have their answers deleted IMO
@ssube this goes back to what Loke says. the oldest Q isn't the dupe candidate. the best is.
@SterlingArcher mirror
@rlemon sure, I've hammered a few with newer, better ones (more answers, more recent, etc)
user1596138
DO any of us use Main anyway?
so you could have answered a question in 2010, which was asked again in 2014 but got more traction. now your 2010 is closed. I don't think the answers on it should get dinged.
user1596138
19:46
Pretty sure we are all just opinionated but we don't use it almost at all
@Jhawins No. xD
@Jhawins a good number of users from here do
@rlemon oh, I see where you're going. The 6 month rep freeze still makes sense, I think.
user1596138
I mean the actual regulars
maybe 1 year, 2 years
user1596138
19:47
Does any true regular or owner actively use Main
Kevin, Sterling
off the top of my head
> You may only look at sexy pictures of me, and only me
user1596138
Maybe don't answer cause they'll take our room..
user1596138
Sterling's posted 6 things this year
most of his posts get deleted
19:48
so he doesn't post. he participates quite a bit
queues, votes, and comments.
@Jhawins I would if it wasn't such a shit show
Kevin answers on top of all of that
user1596138
I downvote a lot
Cerbrus trolls meta
:P
user1596138
@BenFortune Exactly lmao
user1596138
19:48
I'm never posting again, keeping that rep/post
user1596138
!!stat
@Jhawins You (https://stackoverflow.com/users/1596138/jhawins) have 2282 reputation, lost 1 rep today, asked 8 questions, gave 29 answers, for a q:a ratio of 8:29.
avg. rep/post: 61.67. Badges: 0g 18s 36b
I think lemon has me beat though
@KendallFrey Is this real?
19:49
seems to be
Direct contradictions in the list. Rofl.
!!stat
@Loktar You (https://stackoverflow.com/users/322395/loktar) have 26738 reputation, earned 0 rep today, asked 5 questions, gave 486 answers, for a q:a ratio of 5:486.
avg. rep/post: 54.45. Badges: 5g 69s 91b
I haven't ran that in a while
19:50
@BenjaminGruenbaum You (https://stackoverflow.com/users/1348195/benjamin-gruenbaum) have 168967 reputation, earned 211 rep today, asked 70 questions, gave 1761 answers, for a q:a ratio of 70:1761.
avg. rep/post: 92.28. Badges: 58g 371s 412b
@BenFortune kevin has us all beat
@rlemon He's still active on main though :P
@BenjaminGruenbaum we're not allowed to delete or downvote content anymore; didn't you read the blog post?
@ndugger what?
@BenFortune I'm active with votes. Usually while on the can
19:51
Jay Hanlon on April 26, 2018

Let’s start with the painful truth:

Too many people experience Stack OverflowÂą as a hostile or elitist place, especially newer coders, women, people of color, and others in marginalized groups.

Our employees and community have cared about this for a long time, but we’ve struggled to talk about it publicly or to sufficiently prioritize it in recent years. And results matter more than intentions.

Now, that’s not because most Stack Overflow contributors are hostile jerks. The majority of them are generous and kind. Sure, a few are…  just generous, I guess? But our active users regularly express thei …

I'm more or less being sassy, but it's what we're discussing in here right now
Is there a meta for that blog post?
I'm sure there will be soon if there isn't already
but I don't want to get banned, so I won't participate
If you mean a meta post, I think so. If you mean general meta, oh so much
It's been brewing for weeks
doctors must hate him
19:53
gags
oh wtf I didn't even see this article @ndugger
LOL wtf
it all started when Joel made a tweet then someone accosted him on the tweet asking about what the blog covers
> Too many people experience Stack Overflow¹ as a hostile or elitist place, especially newer coders, women, people of color, and others in marginalized groups.
iirc
Yeah becuase I know what color or gender you are when you post a question
2
19:53
I'm a train
sometimes that auto generated avatar really gives it away O.o
@Loktar lmao
and it uses the word ESPECIALLY in reference to women and people of color
people of what color though?
actually, maybe it was jeff
Bill Cosby Feeling Disoriented After Jury Slips Conviction Into His Verdict https://trib.al/wjaOPqG
19:54
Yeah, the people over at SO are taking their political stances a bit far, imo
I can never keep those two straight
@ndugger that doesn't say to not upvote
@ndugger for sure.
I'm definitely on board with being less dicks on SO
@rlemon Well no Joel isn't straight
19:55
@BenjaminGruenbaum it says that the author gets sad when people downvote
> It makes me sad when people downvote duplicates
ok dood
I get sad when people ask poor questions
checkmate atheists
@ndugger because you can dupe vote and delete vote
Man I'm so glad PHP chat is not like this place. How would I ever get anything done?
Ooh, Ubuntu 18.04 releases today
Not if you don't have enough rep
19:56
The author of the article was overly emotional and missed the target, but there is still a problem on SO for newcomers.
In my opinion, a duplicate equates to poor content, and therefore warrants a downvote
@BenFortune Yesterday boi.
@Luggage I think we can all agree to that
@BenFortune gotta update for those sweet coffee drivers
@rlemon ? just got bak
19:57
It's been about ten years since @codinghorror and I started building @StackOverflow so I decided to write a series of blog posts in retrospective! The first one is live here: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2018/04/06/the-stack-overflow-age/
this is where I started following the drama
and hope it doesn't break my wifi/tablet/corsair drivers in the process :D
I think it's where it started
@Allenph Got a link?
I don't think the newcomer problem is specific to SO, though. It's hard to break into programming social circles if you have no idea what you're doing. It can be intimidating.
@BenFortune No. I was just watching it to see if they released it early yesterday.
19:58
@KevinB read the new SO blog
i'm not active on SO
well, unless casting a lot of downvotes counts as active
I count voting as activity
!!stat
@KevinB You (https://stackoverflow.com/users/400654/kevin-b) have 81932 reputation, lost 1 rep today, asked 7 questions, gave 2307 answers, for a q:a ratio of 7:2307.
avg. rep/post: 35.4. Badges: 11g 130s 150b
19:59
@BenFortune What do you mean? You can download the ISO just fine.
@Allenph Those are the beta images
and the attwood comments got this reply
I just want to fucking sob. I want to hold my head in my hands, and just fucking sob. Do not listen to one goddamn thing Atwood has to say on the topics of diversity and equal treatment on Stack Overflow because he's completely fucking clueless.
if you follow both twitter convos it gets interesting

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