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6:00 PM
That was a good time.
And now I have an unreasoning hatred for mongo, node, and all agile nosql dynamic schema-less modern server-side technologies. :D
 
@KendallFrey There's always a legitimate use for regex... but I'm a strong believer that a regex without a comment should be a parse error.
 
@Zirak ;yes it is
 
@Retsam noob
 
@Retsam not always
but yes... .splitBy(" ") should be preferred over .match(/[^ ]+/g)
 
@KendallFrey exactly my reaction
 
6:10 PM
Hi, I'm not the original downvoter but I just downvoted and saw you asked. This is a bad question about a library request, you should know better than to answer it. It's also opinion based and problematic and it just links to an offsite resource. Honestly? You should know better having almost 3k rep. — Benjamin Gruenbaum 1 min ago
:/
@Retsam seriously?
 
@Retsam splitBy(/\s+/) shouldn't need a comment
 
Regex is something every developer should have at least a basic knowledge of
They should know what (), [], +, *, ? do
 
@KendallFrey That is severely confusing
 
decided I should re-try to do stuff using 3d canvas. Again starting with THREEjs, and hopefully ending up being able to write and understand basic webGL on my own. Little funny 3d projects to start with?
 
rotating cube?
 
6:16 PM
@Zirak So is the matter of who your father is.
 
I hope he's not ginger
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Pretty much; realistically there are things every developer should know, but what exactly is the cost of a comment?
 
@JanDvorak erm... I guess that's the basics of the basics of THREEjs?
 
@Retsam comments get out of sync mostly, and they require reading.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum And a regex doesn't require reading?
 
6:17 PM
Yes, but that's twice the reading
 
@towc let's call it a hello world then+
 
I'd like something that someone that has hang around with that library for about a week could do
@JanDvorak right
 
I don't care how obvious it is, //split on spaces is easier to read than splitBy(/\s+/)
 
a maze crawler?
 
If you can just read /\s+/ at a glance, sure don't read the comment. It's not hurting you by being there.
 
6:18 PM
@Retsam i++ // increment i
 
@JanDvorak I guess that's a bit more interesting, going to start with that
 
@JanDvorak See, the problem with that argument ad absurdum is that you can categorically say "all developers should know increment operators"
 
@Retsam all developers should know basic regex
 
You can't categorically say "all developers should know all regex" (that's insane), and it's hard to draw a precise line on which regex's are "basic".
 
@Retsam /\s+/ is basic regex
 
6:20 PM
And even regex with only basic elements can get near impossible to read very quickly.
 
Of course you can, taking absolute beginners out maybe
 
@Retsam the comment is also ambiguous
 
and incorrect
 
ambiguously incorrect
 
it splits by sequences of whitespace
 
6:21 PM
but you should know some regex
like go on regexer and learn
 
@KendallFrey Wait, you mean I misread what that regex does, at a glance?
You mean, that regex wasn't immediately obvious and apparent what it does?
 
@Retsam Learn regex ;-)
 
@Retsam No developer should ever write /[apple|banana]/
 
@Retsam it was to me and Kendall
 
@Retsam Sure it is
 
6:22 PM
@KendallFrey /[|abelnp]/`
 
@Zirak You can say that, but I'm guessing you've used a fair bit of regex.
 
hello guys i have a question i have an object like so > obj = {dat:[]} and i am creating its instances nad saving it in an array by using object.create(obj); the trouble is i am getting the copy of my dat array acoss all my object instances can any body help?
 
@MoniXx Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
Yes, but that's twice the reading
 
6:23 PM
I actually do know regex; I've used it quite a bit in the past, but it's not an everyday occurrence, so yes, it gets rusty.
 
@Retsam uhm, I've also read what \s is. If anything, the comment made me double-take, because it was in conflict with the code.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum damn man, Javascript room too?
 
RegEx is stupid convenient when you need it. Anybody who ever has a string problem should learn it. It comes in handy for me quite frequently and I try to check myself on the hammer that makes everything look like a nail thing.
 
@MoniXx It's because all instances of obj inherit a reference to the same array
 
@JanDvorak how do i resolve this issue?
 
6:24 PM
@Zirak The fact that I wasn't paying attention and mislabeled the regex doesn't really make the case that regexs shouldn't be labeled.
 
@CSᵠ aw shit
 
@MoniXx one solution would be to avoid direct mutations and always clone an array before mutation and then write back after mutation. The other solution would be to use a constructor instead of inheritance.
 
@Retsam Well, no label is better than a wrong label
 
inheritance is best used for methods, not properties
 
@KendallFrey yeah, it's my 2nd burn today
i must drink more coffee
 
6:25 PM
@ErikReppen Yay for regex handiness appreciation! =)
 
btw @ErikReppen you've been featured :)

RegEx - Regular Expressions

Discuss about Regular Expressions. Learn at: Regular-Expressio...
 
@KendallFrey Well, duh, I'm not arguing for "you should incorrectly label your regex".
 
@Retsam It does invalidate this specific case, though. If someone doesn't know regex then yeah, they don't know regex. I'd say \s is pretty basic, so misreading it as a space is considered a beginner mistake
 
Featured?
 
@JanDvorak can u please tell me or atleast direct me to a page where i can get examples on array cloning?
 
6:25 PM
unless youre scraping webpages then regex is a nono
 
@Retsam Well then you incorrectly labeled your argument
 
He quoted your message in the regex room and got like one other user in the room to see it, whom happened to be me. @Erik
 
!!tell monixx mdn array slice
 
The person who writes the regex writes the comment in any real world example (rather than what just happened, where I was tacking a label on someone else's regex without looking closely)
 
6:26 PM
@221B it's awesome for scraping too
 
lol.
 
@Loktar Did you see the latest E:D newsletter?
25% off in-game ship insurance for life to all our Beta backers
free access to one of the 5 new ships when it’s released!
 
!!tell monixx mdn array map
 
very cool
 
6:26 PM
@221B There's nothing wrong with scrapping webpages with regexes, as long as you know what you're doing. Even the most trippy HTML can be consumed by regexes
 
I did not see that thats awesome
 
If I mislabel my own regex then I didn't understand the regex I was wrote, and the problem isn't the comment but the regex itself is broken.
 
map / filter / reduce are the building blocks of functional array processing. They don't mutate the array they are called on.
 
thanks @JanDvorak i will look into that
 
(ES6 syntax) var odds = el.dat.filter(x => x%2)
 
6:28 PM
@Unihedron & @CSᵠ agreed, personally i use a combo but started out scraping pages with regex
then something broke
 
You're doing it wrong. :/
 
cc @BartekBanachewicz
 
I don't always have an easy time understanding my own regex when it gets complicated. Nothing wrong with slapping a comment on a longer one. If \s confuses somebody though and they can't be bothered to look it up, one of us probably isn't a fit for that team.
 
@Zirak has also probably read it.
 
6:30 PM
@Loktar I love the 25% off insurance
Makes up for all the bugs that instakilled me
 
yeah thats pretty handy lol
 
what does everyone use for graphing? d3 (prob) what about on top of that nvd3, c3,....etc??
 
anything but highcharts
 
i used highcharts
but.. stuff
 
@Unihedron For the longest time people kept jumping into all regex discussions regarding HTML and declaring parsing HTML with regex dangerous because HTML wasn't a "regular" language. I finally looked up wtf that meant on wikipedia to discover that regex is technically no longer regular itself but really they were just being silly and bandying about something they'd read on a blog somewhere written by somebody who was unencumbered by facts on the matter themselves.
 
6:32 PM
and google charts
 
we use it cause ie :(
 
@ErikReppen My point isn't "\s", taken on its own, needs a comment as much as it's that it's hard to agree which RegExs need comments and which don't, so it's probably better to just comment them all
 
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Only read the title but do Haskell fans see the need for anything they didn't think of themself?
 
we use google charts on our site and we noticed they tend to go down
 
user1596138
> You're wrong because you held that opinion before me
 
6:33 PM
@ErikReppen even regexes with backreferences are unsatisfactory to parsing HTML
 
@ErikReppen Regex still can't parse HTML.
It's not regular, but HTML isn't even a context free language.
 
@ErikReppen Well, here's my stance. If someone is inexperienced with regex and as such can't use a regex properly, then they may have to resort to a xml parser. But parsing html with regex on its own is perfectly fine.
 
@Retsam We aren't machines. We're allowed to make judgment calls on complexity. Whether people usually agree is the important part.
 
/me loads up with a huge, very expensive cargo, clicks launch, dies.
 
It's way way up in the language hirarchy.
 
6:33 PM
@Retsam the same can be extended to all syntax
 
@ErikReppen indeed, RegEx is more than just Regular Expressions
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum but it can
till it breaks
 
Parsing HTML with regex is OK if you're parsing your own html and you know it won't change. Usually it's counterproductive but still
 
That said, sleep is overdue for me, so enjoy your times javascript!
 
6:34 PM
Byes
 
user1596138
Using regex to parse HTML is like using pliers as a wrench when you already have the right wrench in your back pocket
 
@JanDvorak Again, an argument ad absurdum, I think. If you can come up with a clear and concise rule like "all regex should have comments" that applies to all syntax it can be evaluated on its merits.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum s/OK/possible/
 
@Jhawins at least not hammering a nail with a class bottle.
 
@Retsam yeah. No.
 
6:34 PM
I'm still curious as to what's happening at the low-level that makes '.' so inefficient. My understanding is that it has to check every single char it represents but WHY it has to is what has me curious.
 
user1596138
@Unihedron Oh yeah it's more like that when you already have the hammer you need
 
You don't always have an HTML parser handy.
 
*glass... haha java roots
 
@Retsam it can be evaluated on its merits. It's a stupid rule.
 
user1596138
If you are working with HTML chances are the browser is near by :P
 
6:35 PM
@SomeKittens I have some other goodies coming as well
such as
> Kickstarter Special: Have the option to start in the founder's world with any starter ship and 4,000 CR. Note: any Kickstarter decal-carrier will be able to travel to this secret system in gameplay** plus all rewards above.
 
@Jhawins This hammer may not always be present. For example, you need an incomplete tag fragment instead of an entire dom object. Then using parsers will require additional work.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum in javascript? Sure I do
 
user1596138
Otherwise maybe you should be storing your content differently.
 
regex ALONE might be inefficient at parsing html
 
@JanDvorak I still don't see it that way; and no amount of "hurr durr, you don't know regex well enough" has convinced me.
 
6:35 PM
@Loktar awwww....
 
Also getting a physical collectors edition
 
using regexp for parsing html is like using eval. it's a slippery slope and you'd better have some good reasons for doing it. but it isn't "OMG NEVER DO THAT!~" just, more often, you don't want to.
 
@ErikReppen It depends on the algorithm you're using . with. There are several ways to parse regex. If you're actually interested in regular languages, what a language is, what parsing is, and what computation is: I highly recommend "Introduction to the Theory of Computation" by Sipser, it's a good book.
 
Night!
 
@JanDvorak in JS yeah.
 
6:36 PM
html parser -> regex -> clean -> db
theend
 
What's the thing to the left on a terminal prompt called? eg. Josh:SomePlace$
 
@Retsam you are free to comment anything. I find it pointless in most cases.
 
user:pcname
 
@Cereal username?
 
consider this: /<[^>]+>/ then /href=moar_regex/
 
user1596138
6:36 PM
@221B "how to ruin your life"
 
@Cereal $PS1
 
@Cereal prompt
 
> Be a founding member of ‘The Elite’ in the game, plus all rewards above.
 
lol yea
 
thats the coolest one I got
 
user1596138
6:36 PM
Idk I don't think HTML belongs in the database
 
@Cereal it's called your hostname?
 
haha but am not 100% certain what it means
 
fuck i got the cthulu regex on the room !!!!!!!!!!11
 
@Jhawins why not?
@CSᵠ ha
 
data in the html belongs in a db
 
6:37 PM
I wouldn't html a database either, unless it was some sort of cms
 
user1596138
@JanDvorak the content does
 
You can also set it in .profile in your home folder
 
@Jhawins what if the content is formatted?
 
^
 
$PS1! Thank you
 
6:37 PM
@Loktar I'm still "Harmless"
 
@Jhawins you do realize that a file system is a form of a database right?
 
Despite doing nothing but bounty hunting
 
@TravisJ not even
 
user1596138
@JanDvorak Structure*
 
yeah same here, I dont think it means combat status
 
user1596138
6:38 PM
My bad
 
that would irritate me
because gaining elite status will be fun
 
@JanDvorak You're free to hold that opinion. I just don't think RegEx is the critical, universal skill a lot of devs seem think it is, anymore.
 
@Jhawins as in, store markdown and parse/render everytime?
 
why would the structure change unless it were some sort of webpage editor
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum loll
 
user1596138
6:38 PM
I don't believe the HTML structure belongs in a database ever. You should be "templating"|| using views || whatever you wanna do
 
ah I found the answer
 
@Jhawins but the data in the html, not html code per se
 
@Jhawins How would you store these chat comments?
 
> “The Elite” are a secretive group of intrepid pilots. Throughout human space, there are a great many people that have been helped by “The Elite” over the years, and because of this “The Elite” are treated well, wherever they go. Whether it be discounts on buying special items or repairs, and the small number of founding members even greater benefits. Other benefits include a greater likelihood of being offered rare missions or opportunities.
 
saving html structure nowadays is like taking a picture of a car and saying you'll be able to make one exactly like it later
 
6:39 PM
everyone can get to that status by getting the elite status
 
user1596138
@JanDvorak Sure as fuck not as HTML lmao
 
but founding members get the perks w/o needing the elite status
 
@Jhawins what as then?
 
You'd need html structure and javascript state
 
@Retsam Do you say that from a position of knowing it pretty well? It regularly allows me to solve problems devs that don't know it struggle with. Even just web UI, it comes in handy pretty regularly but once you're building/reading files, I'm not sure how it wouldn't be indispensable.
 
6:39 PM
@Retsam unless you're working with strings, but meh you can get by without strings
 
If you actually wanted to improve game journalism you would be working to fire anybody who rated Half Life 2 above a 6/10. #GamerGate(?)
for @Loktar
 
@Loktar booooo, now I need to work for something?
 
if you're not storing html then you have to store the input and convert it every time.
 
@SimonSarris why?
 
user1596138
I'm afraid to answer the question?
 
6:40 PM
@JanDvorak The exact markdown obviously
 
user1596138
Why would you be asking something so trivial unless you're trying to trap me.
 
@SimonSarris LOL
 
@copy How much extra CPU do you have?
 
user1596138
I won't fall into it.
 
oops caps
 
6:40 PM
@JanDvorak because game journalism has always sucked and is too busy fawning over crap peddled as games
 
@JanDvorak Why?
 
@SimonSarris not sure if you saw what happened like a week ago.. but gg is not a safe topic here
 
@SimonSarris - Probably not a good idea to talk about that at the moment
 
Game Informer was cool when I was there. People got 7s from us and liked it.
 
@Loktar I saw nothing, I've been totally out of the loop
 
6:41 PM
@ErikReppen I know it fairly well, despite my slip up earlier. But yeah, I pretty rarely see need for it.
 
@copy Parsing MD doesn't sound like something you want to do 100x each page load
 
@TravisJ Why not?
 
@Jhawins was banned :/
and we all left for a week
 
yea.
 
6:41 PM
it was a mess
 
user1596138
lol
 
Pretty crazy.
 
get on irc
irc || miaou
 
user1596138
They thought I was of more signifigance then I am :/
 
@SimonSarris - Hammers were thrown, towns were evacuated.
 
6:41 PM
if you're anti-gg though you're good :P
 
@JanDvorak That's not expensive and even if it was, you throw a cache in front of it
 
Wait, why were you banned?
 
I don't know what GamerGate is, only that people be mad.
 
It is all in the transcript
 
All that time of using miao, and it was to protest?
 
6:42 PM
@CSᵠ If your parsing string input, sure, regex. I haven't hit that problem, too often.
 
user1596138
Didn't realize I'm the arguably least "real" developer to be in the RO list hahaha
 
@copy sure - and why not cache it directly in the database?
 
@TravisJ yes, in the millions of messages
 
user1596138
@Neil You had no idea?!
 
More often I'm producing string output, and I really don't see where regex is a very necessary tool for producing string output.
 
6:42 PM
@Jhawins I wasn't on when it went down
 
user1596138
HAHAHA
 
@JanDvorak Because that's the wrong way to store information
 
all I know is that some people are complaining about game journalism and others are complaining about feminism, and I have no idea how these two things could be related
 
@SomeKittens - I read them :)
 
There was a sticky starred message written that we've "moved" to miao room and that was it
 
6:43 PM
why?
 
I can find the beginning of the end
 
@SimonSarris haha its a large issue thats not easy to sum up in a few words honestly
 
@JanDvorak For instance, if you want to generate a different kind of output later, you can't
 
@SimonSarris THANKYOU!
 
But I probably will just let it hang out
 
user1596138
6:43 PM
@ErikReppen remove message please.
 
Perl and Python are the most used languages for bioinformatics. Do you think that JavaScript, together with NodeJS, will have a piece of the bioinformatics world?
 
@user2979409 Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
GamerGate?
 
Why shouldn't I store both - the input and the cached version?
 
user1596138
Don't call names.
 
6:43 PM
@JanDvorak thanks man the constructor based approach solved the problem for me cheers =)
 
@Jhawins what's a rolist ?
 
Nerds? I call myself a nerd.
 
@ErikReppen That's the problem with people who care about things.
 
user1596138
Don;t say people "who really need to get laid really bad but probably never will "
 
@user2979409 why not
 
6:43 PM
oh wth
 
@ErikReppen 4Chan has deteriorated a lot
 
who removed me as an owner?
 
@JanDvorak That works
 
The only way to get ahead in life is to go colorado style.
 
@Loktar yeeeep.
 
6:44 PM
?
 
@SimonSarris The short, probably not accurate, version is a bunch of games journalists denounced "gamers" saying they were all sexist.
 
user1596138
@Loktar @BenjaminGruenbaum removed everyone but @rlemon @SterlingArcher and @FlorianMargaine I heard
 
It used to not be about trolling and hating
 
Smoke a bit, pour a few drinks, and play mario party all night.
 
Why?
 
user1596138
6:44 PM
The new world order
 
@Loktar @BenjaminGruenbaum thought it'd be a good idea.
 
Umm
ok
well then Im leaving the room for good.
 
So yeah, you and I < Sterling.
 
4Chan is pure chaos. There's plenty of good going on in parts of it I'm sure.
 
user1596138
Fuck idk dude I stopped asking questions on like day 2
 
6:44 PM
not coming back to more draconian bullshit.
 
@Loktar Chill out, I'm no longer owner either
 
user1596138
It's stupid yea
 
OTOH, if I only store the output in memcache, I do get cache invalidation on updates for free
 
They thought there were too many
 
alright with that, later all o/
 
6:44 PM
@Loktar thought of doing the same myself.
 
why is the php room so boring
 
Thats cool but I didnt think @BenjaminGruenbaum an the chat room
 
You know I like 4chan a lot. It's a "safe space." Probably one of the truly few safe spaces out there. I'm not saying it isn't a cesspool, but its clearly a place that actually truly values creativity and lets you posit ANY OPINION YOU WANT without shouting you out of the room, unlike everywhere else.
 
user1596138
Well they didn't force us to remove all the ROs that was just some bullshit move
 
Considering many of us have been here longer.
 
6:45 PM
But yeah, the level of culture-war misogyny behind that stuff is kind of surprising to me.
 
@Loktar pretty sure you're blowing this out of proportion
 
Was there any discussion or did @BenjaminGruenbaum just make this decision in his infinite wisdom?
 
@Retsam games journalists denounce gamers? That's some Mary Antoinette shit right there. I love it.
 
user1596138
@Loktar See how I felt when Florian bitch slapped me a few weeks ago? :P
 
.
 
6:45 PM
@JanDvorak Sounds good to me
 
@Loktar rlemon was in agreement as well at least
 
user1596138
@rlemon thanks.
 
And he's God, so..
 
whats ben's deal here?
 
@221B You are boring!
 
6:46 PM
@Loktar there was a little discussion to try it out. mods suggested it
 
:p
 
@Loktar I need you, you are a great voice here
 
yeah Im not joking though :/
 
@Loktar I think the mods pressured him into it.
 
@rlemon Why edit?
 
6:46 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum FTR yegge's opinions are shit
 
@copy keeps people from following the link
 
@PeeHaa only sometimes
 
user1596138
@Neil No rlemon almost got banned with me and was reprimanded in chat. Sorta
 
I for one do not see why @rlemon would be a mod.
 
@SomeKittens - I think he came up with it on his own.
 
6:46 PM
@BartekBanachewicz lol.
 
Also wb @Jhawins
 
he was one of the users who was called out by the mods.
 
Because we need to respect GamersGate I guess.
 
@rlemon so far it's been a colossal failure.
 
user1596138
Wait yeah how did lemon get back on the list? haha
 
6:46 PM
Hi
 
@rlemon We don't need to censor opinions here, do we?
 
@SimonSarris Well, the "gamer" label specifically. But yeah, so a bunch of gamers took offense, and so GamersGate is either seen as a bunch of people defending sexism or as a criticism of the games journalism.
 
@Jhawins arbitrary!
 
Unless they're extremely radical, of course
 
The article could have been fun if I didnt know his real attitude
 
user1596138
6:47 PM
@copy We were specifically told that that kind of message can not exist here
 
bleh well whatever, I got used to not using the chat last week anyway, if you guys want to talk to Loktar Ill be on twitter and IRC :P
like I said this draconian BS is something Im not supporting
 
@SomeKittens just because i'm on the list, doesn't mean it was my idea
 
@Jhawins Hmm, know not I, down wasn't when I wasn't it.
 
(It doesn't help that a bunch of people rallying around the #GamersGate label really are terrible and sexist, but...)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum is naturally ignoring the complaints.
 
user1596138
6:47 PM
If you don't see why take it to the Tavern lol this really doesn't need explained again jesus
 
@Loktar yes, this was discussed over at miaou for a week. The least you can do is talk to me before you make any rash decisions.
 
I only agreed to give it a shot because a week of this isn't the end of the world.
 
I was afk, jesus christ.
 
Even better - memcache lets me run multiple versions in parallel - super-useful for live updating
 
I'm not ignoring any complaints -_-
 
6:48 PM
@rlemon Then take yourself off or reinstate the old system.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum imo it seems like rash decisions have been made.
3
 
Where were all you for a week when we opened the owners room in miaou for over a week.
 
@JanDvorak I hope you have good serialVersionUIDs
 
@SomeKittens what would that solve? this is just more animosity
 
Did you people actually read anything that went there?
 
user1596138
6:48 PM
The "old system" was not to have a system. We don't need a system.
 
@ssube why?
 
user1596138
But we do haha yeah we kinda do
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum so we make SO chat decisions in a 3rd party chat?
 
You can criticize games journalism without being associated with a group that's been making some really messed up rape threats that included the women's addresses and other information about that them that struck too close to home.
 
@rlemon Bringing back the old system would reduce animosity.
 
6:49 PM
@JanDvorak Multiple versions of stuff (like sessions) in memcached without that gets funny.
 
I was actually working most of last week and couldnt keep up on all the nuances
 
"Draconian BS"? Seriously, we know eachother for years.
 
As much as I enjoy being in here, this isn't some sort of club that I feel obliged to participate in some chatroom
 
however I feel its very heavy handed for one or two owners to decide who should and shouldnt be an owner anymore
 
@SomeKittens then talk to Stirling and Jan about it as well. why am I being singled out here?
 
6:49 PM
I have to work, I didn't know what the heck had happened..
 
just because I'm still an owner?
 
@ssube not if multiple versions don't see the same cache
 
Same here - had a major project go over budget.
 
and I feel if you were to suggest something like that, you should recluse yourself as an owner in addition to the others.
 
@ErikReppen Both sides think "their" revolution has been taken over by the other side
 
6:49 PM
@Loktar there was a pinned message about it for a week, it was discussed with SE staff. We had a problem here.
 
user1596138
You guys do whatever you want, but I don't think this discussion belongs in this room for a few reasons.
 
@JanDvorak I thought you were doing rolling deploys with it.
 
@rlemon Still not sure why Sterling was chosen over Loktar or I. Jan's on when others aren't, so that makes sense.
 
@Loktar you were not removed because you didn't do your job well, you did your job very well.
 
user1596138
Not that I agree with those reasons but they are fact.
 
6:50 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum So his reward is removal.
 
@SomeKittens `*sigh* I didn't make the list
 
@ssube doesn't each machine have its own cache?
 
haha if that were the case I wouldn't have been removed :P
 
I FEEL LIKE I SHOULD NOT HAVE SAID ANYTHING
 
and if everyone is just going to fucking poke at me for being on it i'm not anymore
 
6:50 PM
@JanDvorak Depends on just how you memcached.
 
@SomeKittens it wasn't a matter of choice, I liked all the room owners we had.
 
> Look man its me not you.
 
I don't really see why this is so personal
 
@SomeKittens I'm pretty sure it went by how active people were
 
6:50 PM
@SimonSarris You didn't actually trigger this.
 
user1596138
@rlemon Hahaha
 
@rlemon thank you.
 
We've got a memcache per app per env.
 
user1596138
Haha
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I just don't understand who put you in charge.
 
user1596138
6:50 PM
Oh jeez come on guys...
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum uh huh.
 
@Loktar no one "put me in charge"
 
Keep the sessions in it for load balancing and the like.
 
What's the other side? I see one group happily not taking responsibility for the behavior of its constituents and relying on the inherent ambiguity of 4chan to behave however it wants.
 
I have no personal issues with you but many of us have been here muh longer.
 
6:51 PM
We had discussions over it, over weeks.
 
Am I still a room owner?
 
@ssube how does that work?
 
@SimonSarris nope.
 
@SomeKittens don't thank me. I don't see why you were being shitty to me just because I was an owner
 
@SimonSarris Nope.
 
6:51 PM
but said nothing to Stirling or Jan?
why was I singled out?
 
@SimonSarris nope.
 
Huh. I've been dethroned in my absence.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Who? You and SE?
 
Go ahead, single me out, I don't care.
 
@ErikReppen Umm because "gamers" isn't an organized group that could take responsibility for the behavior of its constituents?
 
6:51 PM
@rlemon I've complained to Sterling - but I understand why Jan's on there.
 
user1596138
@rlemon belongs on the RO list and that is that.
 
Who did I abdicate my throne too? It was a wide and comfy throne that I thought a lot of people enjoyed.
 
Can I at least know the reason that spawned the fact that room owners were removed?
 
GamersGate is very organized.
 
I assume there must have been a good reason, no?
 
6:51 PM
to not too, jesus
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yeah, you don't care because you're in charge
 
user1596138
That dude has 201K messages here. More than @Loktar @BenjaminGruenbaum and @Jhawins combined.
 
@JanDvorak Pretty well, except when structures change. We have 4-6 app nodes, they all share a single memcache server, and store their sessions in their (serialized).
 
Gamers is a general label for a hobbyist and not at all organized.
 
I don't mind being singled out. I'm willing to discuss all this, I'm just curious why this is all happening now and not last week.
 
6:52 PM
@Jhawins so?
 
You'd care if this was actually a meritocracy.
 
user1596138
He has run the bot for us for months.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum well because we are on the actual SO chat now :P
 
When a node gets a request, it goes to memcache, asks about the session ID, desers the session, and goes.
 
@ssube I mean, technically
 
6:52 PM
@ErikReppen Not in the sense that it's a heirarchial organization that can enforce any regulation on it's "members"
 
 
@Loktar it didn't happen today, or yesterday.
 
Servlet filter or something along those lines.
 
@ErikReppen It's very organized, look at the large communities
 
lets just put it this way
 
6:52 PM
There was a shitstorm, somebody suggested removing some room owners, somebody did it, now there's another shitstorm.
 
Doesn't really matter when it happened, it still happened.
 
user1596138
I genuinely believe him when he says the chat is his homepage.
 
@KendallFrey Oh, so that's the controversy in this?
 
and @Zirak isn't an owner?
 
6:53 PM
Looks more like a spat than a "decision over weeks"
 
@Jhawins it is
 
Grow up, folks. It's an internet chat room
 
The one who has contributed the most to the chats?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I assume it's happening now because no one noticed the discussion on Miaou
 
user1596138
And he has almost always shown very good judgementwith the RO tools.
 
6:53 PM
Req comes in with the cookie (has the session ID), we pull the session data out of memcache (if we don't have it).
 
"Oh hey, you were busy when the decision was made" THAT'S NOT HOW DEMOCRACY WORKS
 
user1596138
I'm just saying @Zirak isn't here all day every day
 
Typically, you'll be on the same node for the life of your session, but that might not be the case.
 
Wow can someone summarize what the hell happened
 
@SomeKittens its been proven this isn't one
 
6:53 PM
I have been away too long.
 
haha multiple times now
 
user1596138
rlemon is here SO MUCH that he is probably the best candidate for RO even if we only have 1 lmao
 
@ssube I mean, how is memcache synchronised between machines?
 
2 mins ago, by SomeKittens
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yeah, you don't care because you're in charge
 
If you aren't, we have a single memcache read, and your session keeps on with no visible change.
 
6:54 PM
I was there on Maiou but I never saw it. When I saw what happened later, I didn't care because I'd been busy, so I didn't feel like I should have been a room owner anyway
 
Again, I have no problem discussing it, you guys are all my friends, I don't feel 'superior' or 'entitled' to more here.
 
like
 
@JanDvorak It's not. There's one memcache server and n app servers.
 
@SimonSarris I haven't been away at all, and I have no idea
 
user1596138
Enough kissing his ass, but he should be there, @Loktar should also be there.
 
6:54 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum then remove yourself as an owner and we can discuss it as equals.
 
When the session changes, it gets written to memcache.
 
@copy Americans have lots of groups too. That doesn't mean "organized" as in with a political will, a hierarchy that much of the group recognizes, etc...
 
X angered Y, so A destroyed stuff.
I need it in that format
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Then why do you have italics?
 
user1596138
But @Loktar you won't deny you are far less active.
 
6:54 PM
@SimonSarris that is it you just summarized it perfectly.
 
When a session is requested and doesn't exist on the app node, it does a memcache read for that ID as the key.
 
@ssube a mini-database?
 
@Loktar I was not an owner for over a week. Missed that part?
 
@rlemon SOLVE FOR X
 
@Jhawins I agree
 
6:55 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum but you are now :P
 
Lemme find it for you
 
@JanDvorak Sort of, but with short-lived, fairly uniform objects.
 
I wasn't an owner for this room for most of my life
 
timelines mean nothing to me
 
6:55 PM
Im not discussing the history, this is the here and now
 
this thing here with SO rooms is not at all a democracy, who ever said that?
 
lets not move goal posts here.
 
It works pretty well. memcache is good at small read-writes, and we have a native key (sess id)
 
I am discussing the history.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum So you're comparing your voluntary removal with our involuntary removal.
 
6:55 PM
@ssube isn't the point of memcaches not having to talk to a remote machine?
 
@SomeKittens is voluntary removal still voluntary if you're pressured into it?
 
user1596138
You guys haven't figured it out yet lol. There's one end-result from all this no matter what
 
@JanDvorak Not that I know of. It's IPC, at best, or "network" reads between two VMs.
 
lol Mikedidthis was right when he moved to the web design room :P
 
@rlemon No. And I was hoping you'd just bring back the old system.
 
6:56 PM
Basically, giving access to miaou meant sharing identity credentials with a rather untrustworthy site. Not sure why you would want to force SO users there.
 
You're all way more upset than I thought you'd be over this.
 
@ssube oh. So, one memcache per physical machine?
 
I understand not the ire.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I find it extremely frustrating honetly
 
user1596138
The regulars will be re-added, it's just a discussion of how slow and I would argue that it's fine to just kinda let things float for a little bit. It's only been a day or two.
 
6:56 PM
@SomeKittens why? leave it and people are pissed at me for doing nothing. bring back the old system and people are pissed at me for stepping over them.
 
I've been here for what 4 years contributing
 
please don't put me in that situation ever again
thankyou
 
and then am just arbitrarily removed as an owner along with many friends here.
 
@JanDvorak Nah, it's all openstack, so one memcache per hand-wavy-thingy
 
Just give the room to me, problem solved !
 
6:57 PM
yes what was wrong with the cronyism of the old system
 
And approximately one memcache collection per app per env
 
who destroyed our dynasty, and why
 
If people were getting banned without rhyme or reason, I'd be upset over this
 
^
 
@Loktar If it bothers you that much, and you're not interested in trying out what was suggested to us by the SE staff. Then it's good you're raising this up and you can obviously have RO back. I do not think I have the slightest more right to be here than you do.
 
6:57 PM
But honestly who cares about being owner?
 
@ssube doesn't that imply the possibility of a network call?
 
We can always make a new room
 
user1596138
The "old system" was how we naturally conformed to the way SO.chat is setup. We will hit the same conclusion again.
 
The Web Dev Club
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I didnt see the SE staff discussion
 
6:57 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Then give him RO!
 
@Neil I've kicked a guy today and it felt great
 
You were invited to it.
I am
 
@JanDvorak Was there reason?
 
@JanDvorak It does, yes, but only when the session doesn't exist on the node.
 
I want to be clear its not about losing permissions
 
6:58 PM
@ssube - memcache tends to be at the application level, and usually there is only one application pool per application instance.
 
@Neil yes
 
its about the drastic change
 
@SomeKittens I'm trying to add you, you have two users?
 
This is the first time I've seen anybody talk about a 'system' here. Also the first time a relatively wimpily offensive comment of mine got deleted. Not really upset by that but did something happen to warrant the concern for room behavior?
 
@Loktar Yeah, it's like being told "Hey, you're not a part of the super cool club anymore"
 
If you get rebalanced to a different node, your session tags along and there's a network read.
 
user1596138
@Loktar we know what it's about no discrepancy there.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum One of the trolls a while back copied my account.
 
@JanDvorak Well there you go. What did he/she do?
 
@Loktar you do realize, all you had to do to be RO again is ask, right?
 
6:58 PM
@SomeKittens essentially yes
 
but it got deleted and there's a cache issue somewhere.
 
Normally, sessions are vaguely sticky, so you should be on the same node the whole time.
 

Web Dev Club

Be nice. Any time someone mentions the JavaScript room they mu...
 
@SomeKittens which one do you want RO?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum that seems kind of crazy.. Ive been here forever
 
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum The troll-clone still has the Ux2666
 
@ssube - If you get rebalanced to a different node, you can have session swap occur on occasion.
 
@Loktar yes, and we had a problem here. I've tried talking to people about it here for over a week.
 
@Neil New guy came, started posting images of middle fingers despite a warning
 
come ole loke
 
6:59 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum I honestly just missed it, like I said Ive been pretty busy
 
@JanDvorak Yeah, I think that's ban-worthy
 
come rob
 
Ask @Jhawins , ask @rlemon ask @FlorianMargaine ask @SterlingArcher seriously
 
come some kittens
 
@JanDvorak You kicked him for the facebook thing?
 
6:59 PM
@ssube - This is because the session has a guid that may not be the same on each node
 

Web Dev Club

Be nice. Any time someone mentions the JavaScript room they mu...
 
@Loktar then the least you can do is not flip out over it and give me the benefit of the doubt.
 

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