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11:00
@LucDanton Yeah, but I have no idea what the narrow variant is for (other than being some French thingy)
Typographers that want something different for their titles?
Well, and Mongolian too, but I don't know anyone that knows Mongolian.
L'espace est aussi utilisée en langue française comme séparateur de milliers lorsque l'on écrit les nombres en chiffres. C'est une espace fine insécable qui est utilisée dans ce cas.
There you go!
Makes sense. But what if I write 2 + 'c' : it seems it gets promoted to int too in that case. Couldn't the 2 constant be interpreted as a ` char` to avoid promotion ?
L’espace fine qui est requise en imprimerie entre une lettre et une ponctuation haute (;:!?), ainsi que l’espace insécable requise après les guillemets ouvrants («) ou avant les guillemets fermants (»)
11:01
@LucDanton Ah, like 1 000 000, then?
Tell me if you want me to translate those.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah.
Nah, I get it. Thanks.
Xeo
Xeo
@ereOn Why should it? Literal integers are just int, unless a suffix changes that.
@ereOn No, that's just not how the language is defined. By the way, Java does exactly what you propose: 2 + 'c' is a char in Java.
@Xeo Or if they're too big.
Xeo
Xeo
11:02
@LucDanton Right
Okay, that clear things up. Thanks.
It seems like yet another instance of messing up and encoding appearance instead of semantics.
:/
@R.MartinhoFernandes The latter case is something that predated computers though, I don't know if it has survived modern typography.
People. Either stop starring deleted questions or give me some free rep.
@ereOn It's just a matter of convention. When you don't consider the encoding of letters, 2 + 'c' makes absolutely no sense. But it just seemed prudent to promote chars (basically tiny-range integers) to full blown integers and add them together. As Fred said, it's just how it is defined.
11:03
@R.MartinhoFernandes found it, thanks.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Okay so suppose I have something encoded with a neat appearance. Now I'm designing the rendering engine. How do I express what the engine produces?
@LucDanton Not sure what you mean.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm okay with having encodings for semantics and 'hard-coded' appearance encoding.
@LucDanton But one of the UTC guidelines for encoding new stuff in the is to avoid encoding appearance, and stick to semantics.
@AndreiTita one
11:06
Whoops, drop time.
@AndreiTita two
But they broke that rule many times before, yeah.
@FredOverflow wat
Guys, can I ask a question?
@FredOverflow Thanks.
11:07
Guys, can he?
@David19801 you just did
@David19801 You already did. Wanna ask another one?
I am stuck on 9
Next one is $0.99
@BartekBanachewicz It's on the starboard, but he can't see it.
11:08
@FredOverflow Oh, that one got deleted? Sadface.
@David19801 wow. What is that?
its the google puzzle thing
I was just playing it and got stuck
Some graphical programming language it seems. Nice.
and found no solutions
@FredOverflow neither can I :( I mean, yet
11:10
@R.MartinhoFernandes I see. Trying to improve the ratio here is like sieving seawater no?
@LucDanton It's not that I am for or against it, it's just that the committee seems to take a very random approach sometimes: sometimes they reject encoding some characters because they only differ in appearance, yet other times they do it anyway...
@David19801 How do I put multiple things in a do?
drag and drop them in
you can connect things at the end of other things
^ pretty cool
And there's messy stuff like characters no one has any fucking clue where they came from (no, I don't mean PILE OF POO; everyone knows that's from emoji).
It seems like they were very very sloppy in the past.
11:12
@David19801 I know how to solve it. sec
Back then, there were no levels. However, my algorithms should be generic
well, sehe was faster
@BartekBanachewicz Yup, by about a year!
@sehe The amount of tabs is too damn high! Even now!
but! you used loop
that's unfair
wait, how did you guys get if statements?!?!?!
if statements are for pussies. Guesswork wins.
@sehe But now you have limited resources.
@David19801 click on them? Dropdown will show
11:14
@DomagojPandža 12 tabs now
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah. That's why I said, "back then"
anyway, @David19801 thanks for that, I am totally showing that to my gf.
hehe :)
FWIW it no longer seems to work in Opera. Aw.
sehe - your answer is cheating!
andrei - legit answer
11:15
@David19801 My reply is not an answer! My reply was a related quote from last year.
I didn't even see a question. Like I said, it no longer works in Opera (?)
ah I see...
maybe use firefox?
@sehe Damn, why Opera? :D
Because. Best. Browser.
Yea, switching to webkit, I heard
It's so nice for the keyboardist. And fast. And ... generally nice
11:17
privacy issues with Opera
@David19801 like?
What a nice way to say "The engine we had for so many years was actually shit"
Probably just trying to get on the band wagon of free updates since the users don't give a fuck what the engine is as long as it renders correctly.
No. It's the fair way of saying that "we lost to the market share and we don't intend to keep pouring resources in a 'competing' technology if WebKit is already sufficiently Open"
@AndreiTita Oh, I didn't know you could change the condition! You can "factor out" the move forward:
11:20
Well it's a good decision for Opera for sure.
I'm not so sure. But then again, I can't blame them: they're not asking my money
I am not interested in browser technology until they embed Lua anyway
Imagine how cool the web would be if it was scripted in Lua
11:21
What does Lua bring to the table?
@FredOverflow Compare that to my solution of last year :) A-maze-ing!
And if so, you can either talk about it or do something about it. :P
A lot of you just speak of what should be done, like it is done by some magical gnomes and not people just like you.
@sehe Well, I'd say mine is a bit cleaner, isn't it? :)
@DomagojPandža I am writing a Lua-C++11 interface, but that's a bit off of my main development road at this very moment
@DomagojPandža It's better than JS, but you shouldn't listen to me, since I am a Lua fanboy
And I mean that in a very positive way, I've come to know a lot of you and what you can do. And you should definitely try to push some of those very good ideas.
11:22
@FredOverflow ha, finger-to-the-wall.
@FredOverflow Probably is. No time to scrutinize. At first glance I'd say they were equal. The main difference might well be that there is a predicate "if path" instead of "wall ahead" now.
@DomagojPandža Earth day has only 24 hours, unfortunately :(
@R.MartinhoFernandes "wall-hugging" is the term I learned for that (Wolfenstein3D):
Jun 11 '12 at 8:01, by sehe
Woot. I just programmed a (halfbaked) simplistic 'wall hugging' maze solver in Google Blocky:
I like FTTW because it's super easy to explain: put a finger on the wall, and move.
11:25
I wrote a similar algorithm in Karel The Robot a few months ago:
while (not onBeeper())
{
    turnLeft();
    while (not frontIsClear())
    {
        turnRight();
    }
    moveForward();
}
@BartekBanachewicz Using Emscripten, porting Lua to the browser should be... simple. To actually support a scripting engine for major browsers... Well. Have fun!
@sehe One word DOM.
@FredOverflow That is some hard core shit.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't get it
I found luajs once
11:26
@DomagojPandža I won the Turing award with it.
In theory it should benefit from V8 JIT in Chrome, so...
@BartekBanachewicz Ah, Atwood's Law, isn't it?
@sehe The DOM is terrible. If you port Lua, and keep the DOM the same way, it will still suck.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah
11:27
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yep, you could even port Haskell, and it'd suck :)
I can imagine JS and Lua coexisting in browsers though
Just like with everything, you need to do a radical shift in paradigm. The Document Object Model is a relic.
WebGL should totally have Lua api, because games would be much much better then
But such a change would get a lot of resistance from artsy web developers.
Whoa. "Web", "Games" and better are incompatible declarators
11:28
@sehe have you seen OpenMOBA? :)
@jalf haha, probably even more, because the DOM would fit in Haskell even worse than it fits in JS and stuff.
@DomagojPandža No need to get 'support' from them. Just show them how it's done!
Anyone here use code.google.com?
Nobody. Ever!
I promise
can you help me sehe
how to download the code from here: code.google.com/p/blockly
11:29
sehe, can you? Can you?
I used it on NodaTime.
I can see no big download button...
anyone else is allowed to help too
You need to install subversion.
@DomagojPandža Don't wanna. There's two things that don't attract me: Games and Web. So, Lua's left but why criple myself with the rest?
@David19801 Click on "Source"?
11:30
and then?
svn checkout blockly.googlecode.com/svn/trunk blockly-read-only
First get subversion though xd
@DomagojPandža see ^^
Not needed
I found lightweight C# app that can scrape that
user1357851
11:31
@sehe you are not interested in the internet? How could you, there are a sea of people on there dying to be abused :p
Qix
Qix
So I usually don't gloat, and I know this is the C++ room; however, I just re-implemented the entire VC++ 11.0 vcvarsall.bat file in java. pastebin.com/rxwbD91Z
How crazy am I?
I am not installing SVN client just because google code
@Telkitty Web development
@Qix you wrote anything in java. That sucks regardless
11:32
so there isno easy way to download it?
user1357851
@sehe precisely, how could you abuse them without setting up your own little portal to lure them in?
Qix
Qix
@BartekBanachewicz Disregard the fact it's java.
@Qix Very. I recreated it in bash :) So my Cygwin shell does it for me (and smarter)
@David19801 There is: install subversion :)
What's your OS?
Qix
Qix
11:32
@sehe Lolol that was probably easier.
@Telkitty Because I have SE Chat already, and you're always accepting the bait
my os is mac os
@Qix And more useful
but I don't want to install anything
2
it might break things
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Get it here: http://persephone.rmartinho.com:11111/blockly.zip
11:33
@David19801 LOL
@David19801 Then get the zip I put up.
Qix
Qix
@sehe At least concat'ing the environment variables would have been easier. I had to String.format everything for concatenation.
lololololololo
roflmao
how come it's not starred to death yet?
40 secs ago, by David19801
it might break things
made my day
@Qix Psst. Apache Commons will have something for Joining (if it's not on java.lang.String)
Tell me when you're done, so I can take that down.
11:34
ok i got it thanks
(Also, Google Code sucks, WTF, no source download button?)
true true
i wish google used github
Qix
Qix
@sehe Yes but formatting is much, much easier than concat using + or with a variadic method.
that is easy to use
I'm so sorry for my code but I think it is not the way it is implemented. It has other dependencies and multiple inheritance on other classes. I may come back tomorrow to rewrite this again. But thanks for your answer. — mr5 4 mins ago
11:35
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, I was looking for that too. Perhaps, they fear people will do it on the repo root and get all tags, branches and trunk at once
Oh right, SVN conventions...
which is totally not like getting whole git repo, right?
I mean, ok, branches
but still
@BartekBanachewicz If you download a source zip from GitHub you don't get everything.
@Qix WTF are you on about? Collections. Algorithms. Nothing "concat". Nothing "variadic". Who said that?
11:36
Distributed version control ftw.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't use .zip downloads from github, though. But I see your point
@BartekBanachewicz No. It's like getting the work tree for every head in a git repo.
Qix
Qix
@sehe Not sure what apache commons would have that is substantially better than anything else for string composition.
user1357851
@sehe but the power of any particular chat is limited, to attract massive amount of hapless victims, you need to set up your own traps with your own bait. One bait does not work, change to another one. People who are good with this are called successful entrepreneurs
By the way, did I mention it's so warm I can wear my hat? :3 I love people looks on the street, really
I need a pocket watch
11:37
@Qix What are you disputing your own complaint for? See here:
4 mins ago, by Qix
@sehe At least concat'ing the environment variables would have been easier. I had to String.format everything for concatenation.
"I had to String.format" (sigh, moan, puff, groan, rolls eyes) :)
Qix
Qix
@sehe As opposed to anything apache commons would have had
@StackedCrooked Wow, some serious ADL going on in sort(begin(pi), end(pi)); :) Also, why are you looping over the chars and print each char individually instead of simply printing the string itself?
Building paths is not hard. Not even in Java
Qix
Qix
@sehe Never said I was building paths.
I have a perfect method for building paths.
@Qix Derp. "(if it's not on java.lang.String)" - I'm not a java programmer. I'm just saying, Join has been invented a zillion times. In Java too.
Qix
Qix
11:39
Well duh :)
Wokay. The environment. Sort of the same deal, IYAM. Anyways. I can't see your code. So I'll drop it
@sehe Yup, there's a hefty difference between SVN and git (and even mercurial) conventions. But I'm curious, is SVN still in widespread use or dying off?
@DomagojPandža "widespread" but closing slowly
Qix
Qix
Now I get to do it all again for 10.0 and 9.0
._.
@sehe Ugh, StringUtils.join takes an array. WTF is wrong with API designers.
11:40
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, even CLR <v4.0 had that (string.Join took a string[])
@FredOverflow lol, I didn't realize I could just print the string
Yeah, hence the WTF.
afk
It's not that hard to get it right.
Qix
Qix
@R.MartinhoFernandes Java works differently. variadic function arguments are just an array of objects. Arrays are very dynamic in java.
11:41
@Qix Woooosh
Java has Iterable.
Qix
Qix
sure
By the way, @sehe
Taking an array argument is just the kind of lazy API design that makes me want to strangle someone.
@FredOverflow The ADL is convenient. Any reason to avoid it?
Qix
Qix
Convincing me to switch to C++ is pointless; it's my language of choice ;) I'd much rather be using C++
@R.MartinhoFernandes As opposed to...? Java doesn't have pointers.
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Java has Iterable.
11:43
Java is terrible. FTFY
Qix
Qix
@R.MartinhoFernandes Okay, so? Arrays.asList(someArray)
Join needs a sequence of strings to join, not an array.
@Qix that looks really bad
@Qix Still missing the point.
I don't want to stuff my sequence into an array.
If want to pass my sequence directly.
Because there's no reason join needs to operate on an array.
@Qix Object[] may be very dynamic but I prefer a type-safe alternative.
Qix
Qix
11:45
Then dont. I said earlier, variadic function arguments are arrays.

void someMethod(String... strings)
{
String[] strings2 = strings;
}
Which is what I mean by dynamic
It's true, Java variadics are arrays.
@Qix You cannot pass an ArrayList to that
lol right, Java has no tuple
Qix
Qix
@R.MartinhoFernandes So overload it.
@Qix And now I cannot pass a MyOwnSequence.
Qix
Qix
11:46
@R.MartinhoFernandes What type is MyOwnSequence?
@BartekBanachewicz Java doesn't have values.
mypackage.MyOwnSequence.
Qix
Qix
In this hypothetical situation, of course
What does it derive off of?
user1357851
Qix
Qix
11:47
Then overload with Iterable<String> as the argument
that'd accept lists, sets, etc.
All that join needs is to iterate over the sequence. It doesn't need any other functionality. In Java, that requirement is expressed with Iterable.
Qix
Qix
@R.MartinhoFernandes Again, list, set, etc. including all implementations implement Iterable
INcluding, I believe, raw arrays (though I could be wrong)
@BartekBanachewicz You're always so happy in the morning, then '.c' or other depression sets in during the day. I'm not sure that SO/chat is good for your health :)
6
Qix
Qix
Even though they aren't objects
@Qix Huh!? What did I say now? I'd say use the right tool for the job
in Java, Feb 8 at 23:09, by sehe
Neutral to defensive of Java:

http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/10?m=3768210#3768210
http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/10?m=6707614#6707614
http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/3560575#3560575
http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/10?m=3059494#3059494
http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/2755718#2755718
http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/10?m=3620854#3620854
http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/10?m=7259622#7259622
http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/10?m=2301336#2301336
Qix
Qix
11:49
@sehe Hahaha you didn't say anything; I was just noting that.
@sehe Hmm, apparently they fixed it in the newest release of Apache Commons too.
Qix
Qix
And I laughed a little bit too hard at the fact you have that list on hand
@MartinJames That might as well be unrelated. It's not like SO/Chat is the only factor that I am exposed to during the day
Qix
Qix
@BartekBanachewicz You never know.
@Qix Wokay. That must be tiring. Or I'm not getting it
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
11:50
Anyway, I am going home to bring my amp today
Qix
Qix
@sehe Probably both.
So less talkie, more guitar!
@BartekBanachewicz Well, at least you get to wear your hat :)
@Qix Yeah. We get that "C++ people must hate anything except C++" prejudice a bit too often.
6
@MartinJames Sun is certainly helping. I don't react well to cloudy weather
Qix
Qix
11:51
@sehe Hehe oh I'm sure
@BartekBanachewicz Yes sun! - shutters down in my office this morning so I can see screen :)
@MartinJames In mine too, but 30 minutes tomorrow is more than enough to put me in good mood
And yesterday I was a bit dissapoint, since I wanted to play with Cicada, and she went out, so...
@sehe I hate C++, too. I don't discriminate in my hate.
I have to make language awesomeness chart just like zoidberg has.
11:56
Well, for some reason, it seems to be 'Happy Feet Friday', (linux only today?), so I'm going to try hard to reduce the moaning/sarcasm today. No snarky comments on noob questions, (unless i++ i++i+++), and no Zoidberg-bashing.
Or, even better, make it a shared google docs, so everyone can participate!
@StackedCrooked No, I was just astonished by this "double ADL" :)
Woo hoo, new Mahjongg record: 4:05 :)
What is "kw" an abbreviation for in German?
user1357851
It strike me as peculiar, that in almost all programming communities, C++ gathers the most amount of people, although statistically there are more people employed in Java or C#
@R.MartinhoFernandes kilo watt
12:05
@FredOverflow Don't think so... It's likely something about weeks.
@Telkitty Maybe there's just very little to talk about in the Java and C# communities ;-)
Die nächste Woche (10.KW)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Kalenderwoche (calendar week)
like a year has 52 calendar weeks or something
12:06
@Telkitty Most of them are mindless drones who don't give a shit?
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Happy Feet Friday [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [no-helpdesk]
@R.MartinhoFernandes Haben Sie schon Sauerkraut und Rosenkohl gegessen? :)
Ja.
"du", bitte.
@DeadMG This.
12:10
@TonyTheLion Seems harmless.
Yea, but the FAA wasn't too happy
I mean, they were making a prank of sorts, not trying to kill themselves. It was most certainly done in mid flight when there was no seatbelt sign on.
// Learn German with FredOverflow and C++:
#define wenn if
#define sonst else
#define solange while
#define wirf throw
#define versuch try
#define fang catch
I like trains.
Qu'est-ce que c'up?
Really?
^ you have rights to edit just by link, so feel free to improve, I am far from expert in gdocs
Also feel free to add yourselves and additional languages to the list
// Learn Croatian with Dom and C++:
#define ako if
#define suprotno else
#define dok while
#define baci throw
#define pokušaj try
#define ulovi catch
pokušaj { } ulovi {}
Perfect readability!
:)
12:20
I am going to eat something in the other building since our caffeteria is dead
@DomagojPandža What is trains?
Come on, give some input data. afk.
@BartekBanachewicz You still have no, (or not enough), power, obviously. Some road-worker dug through your cables?
My company recently decided to get a few more servers up and running around the globe and one suggestion was Australia because we have many clients there.
My CTO is in charge of getting all the new servers up and running and when i found out that Australia was not chosen as a place to locate one i asked why. He responded that if someone from the northern hemisphere connected to that server, in Australia, they would get content (like html, images, and css) that was "Flipped". I asked well what about the Australasians aren't they going to get flipped content if the connect to a server in the northern hemisphere?
He responded that since the Australasians are used to seeing the web upside down that it wouldn't make sense to correct it for them because of the extra stress that would put on the processor.
So is this true that we really need to aware of which hemisphere we're serving data too?
12:25
What a great job - installing/commissioning servers in Oz. I would name them all after famous English cricketers.
And of course, a comment by yours truly
¿uo ƃuıoƃ s,ʇɐɥʍ 'ʎǝɥ ɥO – BoltClock♦ Dec 9 '10 at 23:25
Ahahahahah, I can't believe this shit. :D
Where do you find these guys, Bolt? :D
@DomagojPandža I quoted the link from @TonyTheLion
user1357851
zןoן ʇɐɔ ןoן
[admin] shanewarne is down today. Please log on to nasserhussain
12:32
@BoltClock "we're using .Net if that makes a difference."
What content do you get from servers on the equator?
0
Q: Zoidberg curve, can't reach "zoidberg" solution

Ander BiguriI am trying to plot the Zoidberg curve in Matlab just for fun. I just copied the equation shown there and defined the sgn and theta functions but I can't achieve the Zoidberg plot, instead I got this: but I should have gotten this: Here is my code: sgn function: function result=sgn(in) i...

@MartinJames The equator line is probably a data singularity.
Ah - of course.
@BoltClock Nononono! It's 'Happy Feet' day. No Zoidberg bashing today :)
OK, I admit to one temporary weakness - I upvoted it.
12:46
lol
Woody, you're a jerk
@MartinJames oh, no, they turned it back on, but the guys from the kitchen obviously didn't have time to prepare meals for today. You know, we have real full-feat kitchen there. I was pleasantly surprised with the quality of meat in the other building. And the power failure was due to somebody from the city, yeah. I wonder if the airport (it's about a click away) also had the shortage
Our server rooms were running off the UPSes, I think, but I dunno about powerlines in rooms, that was probably a local generator. Apparently servers are more important than feeding us :P
0
A: Zoidberg curve, can't reach "zoidberg" solution

seheYou are missing some crucial bits from the formula. Try fixing it to read:

ahahahahha
12:52
Last time I had a big outage at work was when some moron JCB'd through the power cable. We had batteries and a big UPS but it only lasted 30 minutes. The generator had a full service record but the starter battery was flat, (we changed service supplier immediate:). The diesel had an inertia-wheel starter as well, but nobody seemed to know what the big handle clipped to the wall was for. I didn't tell them, so we all went to the pub instead.
By the way, do you know HQ4X algorithm?
@sehe TAKE MY UPVOTES.
@MartinJames You devious li'll smurf
@AndreiTita And be sure to donate to Wolfram Alpha :)
@BartekBanachewicz True to its name. :P
@sehe That's very useful
12:54
Dec 13 '12 at 0:36, by sehe
@kbok you'll want to read Depixelizing Pixel Art
@BoltClock Indeed. It shows people how they can manufacture single, deterministic fomrulas for aribitrary shapes by composing the right Heaviside step function parameters with aptly chosen spline segments.
Of course, the cheat is the step function
that sentence
@sehe holy crap! How did you know this?
But the thing is, something like that works only on low frequency image data such as pixel art. When there are too many subtleties, it falls apart. You just have to fit proper splines to the outlined and rather sharp - often continuous lines.
12:59
@TonyTheLion Who sais I did ? Wolfram Alpha was linked from the very question :)

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