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10:00 AM
Dunno. My initial idea was to carve the memory into 4 byte sized chunks (more if data alignment is always more than 4 bytes), use a bitmap, 2 bits per chunk, first bit says whether chunk is allocated, second bit says whether the bit is a continuation of allocation from previous chunk. Possibly store first free chunk index at the head of the table.
 
sbi
@orlp If this will be strictly FIFO, then I need to remove (and thus, lookup) the oldest object first. If it is a priority queue, I need to remove by priority.
 
That is ~ 32 KiB table and metadata for 512 KiB NVRAM.
 
sbi
@wilx That's concentrating on allocation. What about finding objects by date or priority?
 
@sbi unless your reads can overlap in address I don't see why order matters
 
@sbi Oh, I did not notice you needed that.
 
sbi
10:03 AM
@wilx I need to be able to read the NVRAM at system start and find everything that had been left there.
@orlp Because it's one of the requirements?
I don't get that statement.
 
@sbi How important is this? How often is it done? You could store timestamps, etc., in the data itself and process that in normal RAM.
 
sbi
Well, the reason I need this is as a buffer for objects that need to be sent off. So different tasks put objects in there, and some dedicated task reads them, marks them as "sending", sends them off, and, once they are really sent, removes them from the list. So finding and removing stuff is kinda important.
 
@sbi the most important part that's not entirely clear to me is what your key for finding objects will be
 
sbi
@orlp Either time or priority.
 
time?
not address?
 
sbi
10:06 AM
The time they have been put into the list.
"FIFO".
 
but is it always going to be one or the other
or will you switch between the two on the fly?
e.g. now I grab a chunk by time
and now by priority?
 
FIFO: feces in, feces out
 
if speed is a premium you maintain both a FIFO queue and a priority queue
and update one when you update the other
if space is a premium you maintain one and make the other an O(n) linear search
 
sbi
@orlp Supposedly, once it's decided which one it will be, this stays.
However, I have been doing this job for two decades now, and I have seen quite a few of these never to be changed rules be changed before they had been implemented...
3
 
from the top of my head I don't know a data structure that can query on both parameters at once
@sbi the fifo queue is simply a ring buffer
I assume that if you decide on a priority queue you want the most memory conservative variant?
 
sbi
10:09 AM
11 mins ago, by sbi
Well, speaking of ideally: It's supposed to be FIFO queue. Maybe a ringbuffer would be great.
 
you probably want a heap
should be very memory conservative
 
@sbi: How fast is the NVRAM? Do you treat it as RAM or as slower storage?
 
sbi
@orlp I am not sure whether this categorizes as "speed is a premium". Many tasks (think "threads") will write into this buffer (but I can put a locked queue into RAM before it if this is a problem), and some of them are high-priority tasks in a RT system, which must not spend more than a few msecs for encoding the data and putting the resulting binary blob into the queue. On the other end, however, there's a task that will send them off via network with a cycle of probably a 3 digit msec.
@wilx I don't have numbers here currently. (It's weekend and I'm at home.) But the old farts say it's a bit slower than DRAM, but still orders of magnitude faster than flash memory.
 
@sbi what's N?
the ring buffer will take cycles, not milliseconds
the heap will be slightly more expensive
 
sbi
What's "N"?
 
10:14 AM
number of elements you expect to be in this data structure
N=10, 100, 1000, etc
just a ballpark
 
sbi
I see. That's the problem.
We are in the process of switching to a new communication infrastructure. Nobody has done this yet. Currently, we simply don't know most of the numbers involved.
 
@sbi if you were to use a priority, any ballpark on the number of bits on the priority?
e.g. will you use a full 64-bit priority or 8-bit
 
sbi
I really don't know how fast the messaging client will be able to send messages off to the broker. Or how much CPU it will consume for this. Melak has run a few tests on that, but we wouldn't know how these will hold up when shit hits the fan in an high EMI environment.
 
because with 8-bit priority you could use a bucket system of FIFOs
 
man, orlp really likes ballparks
 
sbi
10:18 AM
@orlp I suppose there's probably only two or six categories or something like this.
 
@sbi then you can have your cake and eat it too
@sbi just have two to six fifos
and index them
if one fifo is empty, fall down to the one with lower priority
that's a linear scan of ~6, that's a handful of cycles
 
sbi
There are messages that must be kept and sent at all costs. (We would shut down if the queue is full and they aren't sent.) And there's messages which can be lost. Someone might be fancy and come up with some gray categories between these black and white ones, but that's it.
@orlp That will waste space, though. (Remember, space is limited in the NVRAM.) One of them could overflow, while the other(s) still have room.
 
@sbi ah but you underestimate my cleverness sir
 
@orlp Can you start the program and then cat the file into /dev/tty?
 
sbi
@orlp ???
 
10:22 AM
@sbi hint: if you make your ring buffer a size mod P you can make it such that higher priorities overflow into lower priorities :)
by interlacing the priorities
man I feel smart right now
3
I should be getting paid for this shit
 
seems to me like the simplest thing to do would be to have two queues and sort one by priority and leave the other as a fifo.
 
sbi
I can't follow.
 
me neither.
 
@sbi very simple example
let's say you have two categories
0 = high priority
1 = low priority
 
sbi
@Puppy Phew.
 
10:23 AM
and you make your ring buffer size 15
every even number is high priority
every odd number is low priority
 
sbi
@orlp What's that even mean? I have objects varying in size.
 
@sbi When I can't follow it you know it's the difficults
 
@sbi in index in the fifo
don't store the objects themselves in the fifo
just pointers to the actual objects
then when the high priority overflows you can just keep indexing
 
sbi
Oh, I see. You want to separate the ordering from the allocation.
 
yes
ordering should only take a handful of bytes
to do the allocation you want the best memory allocator you can find
don't bother inventing a defragmenting allocator yourself
unless you believe your specs are so specific and easy to work with that you can do significantly better than a generic algorithm
(e.g. all allocations are same size - which you've already said isn't the case)
 
sbi
10:27 AM
@wilx I could probably use chunks of 16 or even 32 bytes. But how would you go and find a free spot the right size in such a bitmap?
 
@sbi intrusive freelist
if a chunk is free you can store a pointer to the next free block in that block
then you only have to maintain a pointer to the head of the freelist
that's one of the specific algorithms that's significantly faster than a generic algorithm if all your chunks are the same size
 
sbi
...which they aren't.
Sigh.
 
> I could probably use chunks of 16 or even 32 bytes.
 
sbi
Ah.
However, when I am walking a linked list to search for a free chunk, why would I keep a bitmap of free chunks?
 
you dont search for a free chunk
that's the beauty of the freelist
the head pointer always points to a free chunk, or is null
 
sbi
10:32 AM
Yes, I do need to search chunks. For allocating, I need to find a free chunk that's as little as possible, yet fits the required size.
> But how would you go and find a free spot the right size in such a bitmap?
 
welcome to the world of writing allocators :)
this is in general a very hard problem
unless you can live with the fact that you never have to merge chunks
 
Memory allocation is one of the many worlds I have avoided.
 
and you'll always have N chunk of size 16, M chunks of size 32, O chunks of size 64, etc
@sbi basically you're trying to write malloc/free
if your chunks truly vary in size a lot
and if there's no real pattern to the size of your chunks, I'd just go with a standard free malloc implementation
 
sbi
Well, what does "vary a lot" mean? For one project, there's probably a few dozen different messages to be sent. Some of them will be really big, others quite small. This probably comes down to a a dozen or two different sizes. Maybe three dozen. Does that "vary a lot"?
 
the variance itself doesn't even matter that much
the biggest question is
 
sbi
10:38 AM
Few of them will be sent more than once or a couple of times per second, and network is slow anyway. The only thing where speed matters is allocation, because we must not slow down the tasks creating those messages.
 
must you be able to fill your entire storage with 16 byte messages, have them sent off, and then be able to handle a 1kb message?
if the answer to that question is yes then you need to be able to combine adjacent memory regions
 
sbi
Maybe we need to. (Did I mention we have no experience with this so far?)
 
let me just say
if priority wasn't a requirement whatsoever
just time base
you could turn your entire memory into one massive ring buffer
and just store messages consecutively (not pointers, the messages directly, prefaced with one int with their length)
 
sbi
@orlp However, this is a 24/7 application, so 16 byte messages sooner or later will fragment the memory beyond usability. Worse, this is running at a facility without regular human presence and very likely no ability to VPN into.
 
researches ring buffer. I'm still learning :/
 
10:43 AM
@edition aww man that's really basic
you gta know man
 
@orlp ah, thats what it is.
 
Anyone here speak Greek?
Gracias, revisare tu sugerencia — Michael Gonzalez 7 hours ago
 
nope it's all Greek to me
2
 
@sehe looks spanish/portuguese
 
I know
I'm not sure what the op means
 
10:44 AM
oh it was a joke
 
sbi
@sehe That's not Greek. "Thanks, revising to suggestion" is my take.
 
@sbi how likely is it that dropping messages is required?
if otherwise the full memory is used
 
sbi
Mhmm. I have no idea whether the messaging client necessarily sends out messages in the order I pass them to it. Remember, I plan to mark messages as "sending" when I initiate the sending, and remove them only once they are sent. If the client might send out of order, I might have to remove messages from the buffer out of order. This could wreck the ringbuffer idea. Damn.
 
luckily I have a CS textbook.
 
you also have internet
@sbi uff, you seem to have quite some requirements for the thing ^^
 
10:49 AM
@sbi I don't think I can significantly help at this point
 
sbi
@orlp From experience, if shit hits the fan, all components go on a wild rampage tracing spray, swamping the system with messages. Currently, we have a 100k NVRAM buffer for this (I said 500k earlier, but this was wrong). If this overflows, we drop messages, as we do not want to halt the system because we cannot flush trace messages to the flash fast enough. This has been a problem a few times (without tracing you cannot see what went wrong), but not too often.
However, some messages are needed for warranty reasons, and never ever must get lost. As I said, we'd rather shut down the whole thing (which might mean to leave thousands of people in the dark), than lose the warranty on multi-million € hardware.
 
maybe if you have some more concrete details I can come up with some cool tricks
 
sbi
@orlp Oh, but you already did. Even just bouncing ideas, requirements, and problems off other people always helps tremendously. And you have also put a lot of ideas into my head.
 
let me construct an example for the coolest idea I had though
it's disgustingly smart, even though probably not applicable to you :P
never heard of it before either
 
sbi
@ScarletAmaranth Yeah, it's a tricky one, especially because we know so little about it at this time. :(
 
10:51 AM
@sbi wtf you can't drop messages for warranty reasons o_O?
 
sbi
@orlp Don't let me hold you back, by all means. I probably won't look at it, though. :)
 
@ScarletAmaranth Might be reliability warnings or whatever
 
@orlp I will :P
 
@sbi it won't be many lines of code
 
user1804599
Hi!
 
10:52 AM
@Nooble Took long enough
 
sbi
@ScarletAmaranth It's performance data. How long has which equipment been operating under which conditions/stress. We need to prove we did not exceed the spec.
 
what if the messages "disappear" due to a hardware failure or some such?
 
sbi
From what I understood, messaging has "guaranteed to be delivered (at least) once" QoS settings, which will be employed for these messages. We also might keep the logging to local flash memory in there for the next project, though, just to be on the safe side while we learn how this all works.
 
What kind of network is it?
 
well, I can imagine a series of unfortunate mishaps and failures that could cause a "vanishing" anyway :P
 
sbi
10:56 AM
@CatPlusPlus Hardware is connected to via different industrial bus systems (CAN, ProfiBus/Net, Modbus etc.), messaging between software components is across TCP/IP. ISTR someone saying that the broker we use uses UDP, ICBWT.
 
idk much about industrial buses but networks in general can't be assumed to be reliable
You need to be prepared for arbitrary message drops
 
I think point-to-point links should be less likely to do weird things, but there's still a possibility of the link getting damaged
 
sbi
@ScarletAmaranth Yes, this can always happen. Right now, we shovel such data to the flash memory. In one project, a factory-internal script grabs it to upload it to a DMZ-hosted FTP server, to which another script VPNs into and shovels it to somewhere safe. All kinds of mishaps can happen there. Shrug. A simple flash of lightning could destroy our performance data every station along the way. That doesn't mean we shouldn't prevent as many POF's as possible, though.
@CatPlusPlus Apparently, the messaging system takes care of that. I suppose they have some ACK mechanism to tell the client when a message is received.
 
ACK messages are vulnerable to the same conditions as the actual messages
 
11:01 AM
@CatPlusPlus if not, then why not send everything as ack messages :D
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus What's the worst that could happen then? A message is resent until, finally, and ACK has been received.
 
loophole of the universe
 
It's Byzantine generals' problem
 
@sbi the system has to keep that message in memory
in the mean time new messages come in
@sbi how do you ack the ack?
and how do you ack THAT ack?
 
it's turtles all the way down of course
 
sbi
11:03 AM
@orlp Yeah. From what I heard about the IT folks' plans, they will throw hardware at this problem: a feisty server with at least one for backup. Sounds good enough to me.
 
I don't know much about actual solutions to that tbh, but it's a problem you need to be aware of if you're building a high reliability thing
Ain't distributed systems fun
 
sbi
@orlp I really dunno. If you want, download the source of some OSS messaging server and have a look at it. My guess is you ACK an ACK by simply stopping to resent your message. ICBWT.
 
@orlp how is this so clever ^^?
 
@sbi the other side can't detect that (in theory- in practice you can take an error margin)
'he stopped sending messages' is indistinguishable from 'all his messages are getting lost'
 
sbi
Oh, in order to mitigate that, all components will regularly send "I am still alive" messages. Anything that hasn't sent one for a cycle will be considered "suspicious". If it hasn't for N cycles, it's considered dead.
 
11:06 AM
@sbi and my network switch in between your machines will perfectly pass those through, but filter all other messages :)
in theory arbitrary subsets of messages might get lost
 
sbi
Yes, in theory, everything can go wrong. I never disputed that, so why are you trying to prove it to me?
 
you can't terminate a solution to the byzantine problem
however there's a cool trick I know from networking a game
is that you can have an incrementing message counter
and an incrementing ack counter
and an ack counter of 32 means 'I got all messages with message id 32 and lower'
 
sbi
Shrug. You must think we are all dumb and never have thought about this.
 
There's also that getting 'I'm alive' messages might mean that the only thing working in the system is the thing that sends 'I'm alive' messages :v
 
@sbi He's just a student, don't take him the wrong way :D
2
 
11:08 AM
@sbi no, I'm switching between trivial algorithms, good ideas and devil's advocate of what could go wrong in theory
 
He's yet to bring piss to a shit fight that is real life.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Usually, this is sent by the task that also collects the data to be sent.
 
@orlp I think that's p much what TCP does
@sbi Yeah; I'm just recollecting Fun Things About Distributed Systems that I was researching for past 8 months or so
It gets really Fun
 
sbi
All our tasks are cyclic, with maximum cycle times. (The system kills your task if it doesn't surrender the CPU for too long.) When something goes wrong, what usually happens is that one task dies entirely, or gets stuck in a deadlock or something similar fatal. Then it stops working altogether. So, absent of stupid errors (code written in pairing and/or reviewed), either the taks does what it is supposed to do, or it's dead.
Well, thanks folks! This got me a lot of new brain food. I need to think about it a lot. So I'll probably play a bit of Civ to get me head off it. :)
 
Ah, that's where I got it from. Reminds me of Cat. Or maybe a morph between Puppy and Cat.
 
11:19 AM
Bee and PuppyCat is an American animated web series created and written by Natasha Allegri, and directed by Larry Leichliter. The series revolves around Bee (voiced by Allyn Rachel), an unemployed woman in her twenties, who encounters a mysterious creature named PuppyCat (voiced by the Vocaloid program Oliver). She adopts this apparent cat-dog hybrid, and together they go on a series of temporary jobs to pay her monthly rent. The show is produced by Frederator Studios and is animated by Dong Woo Animation. The series has since expanded to include an ongoing comic book series by the same name, which...
 
sbi
@KevinC Yeah, go ahead. Propose it. Then let people have a look at it and judge whether it's worthy for this list.
Oh. I see that you just did. Oh well.
@KevinC We totally disagree there. This is the old mistake so many C++ books did before Koenig&Moo came along. I am surprised people can still do that in this decade without blushing.
@KevinC The question is community wiki, so anyone can edit it. There is no "process", except for the fact that every edit will be automatically posted to the C++ chatroom and experienced users will wipe off anything unworthy. If this ends up in an editing fight, the moderators are likely to ban anyone annoying a bunch of high-rep C++ tag users.
@KevinC Actually, that's wrong. The list is based on books the community approves as good ones. Alas, there's so many books, and so few good ones.
@KevinC Critique by some of Stackoverflow's best C++ programmers is a dignified as you will get. Sorry to say, but if they do not approve, you're out in the cold.
As to "C++ pedagogy" (I think that should be didactics, or does the book target children?) – I have been teaching C++ (as a second job) for most of the last 20 years. If the users here think your book isn't good enough, I wouldn't use it for teaching. Because, you know... These people here a good at that C++ thing.
@Jefery You heard wrong. I have, for a while, put a lot of effort into this. However, it is community wiki, and I have let go.
You're on your own, kids.
 
Holy mother of wall texts
 
uh, I'm certainly not a C++ professional.
 
sbi
@edition That's why you kept your mouth shut back then. Right?
 
Yeah me neither
 
11:26 AM
@edition It's obvious you're a C++ Home Edition.
 
@sbi yes, because its embarrassing that I don't know as much as I should.
 
As I said back then I only replied to him because nobody would.
 
Jerefy likes to stir shit up for the rest of the gang.
 
v0v
 
oh
sbi is going through his list again
:D
 
11:29 AM
sigh
 
sbi
@edition Who knows as much as they think they should? (Except for people either overestimating their knowledge or underestimating requirements, of course.)
 
Good call on not participating on CG.SE, that thing is not going to survive the beta. For the second time.
 
I think a lack of exercise is having a detrimental effect on my ability to think.
 
@ElimGarak CodeGolf?
 
@Jefery Computer Graphics
 
user1804599
11:38 AM
@StackedCrooked You should increase the amount of tail call optimisation your products do. The webpage says "Surprisingly low TCO".
 
And this is why you shouldn't use acronyms all the time
 
it's not as bad as having to see your facea ll the time
 
@ElimGarak Why not?
 
user1804599
> Pulse
> -1 follower
> Following
 
user1804599
Good job LinkedIn, you allowed a page to have a follower while having -1 followers.
 
11:46 AM
@набиячлэвэлиь Well, there are certain requirements SE has imposed, required to pass. But there is also the sort of indefinite public beta for stuff like Islam. Which has been going on for 1200+ days.
 
user1804599
Code Review has been in public beta for years.
 
user1804599
Four years.
 
Intense dedication. :D
 
11:52 AM
> 56,394 visits/day Excellent – 1,500 visits per day is good, 500 visits per day needs some work
 
> 154 visits/day – 1,500 visits per day is good, 500 visits per day needs some work (CG)
 
Ell
Why won't it survive?
Oh
 
Code Review is de facto graduated site.
 
> 1.6 questions per day — 10 questions per day on average is a healthy beta, 5 questions or fewer per day needs some work.
 
11:58 AM
@набиячлэвэлиь em, sorry about the other day.
 
Ven
@Elyse did you end up picking a language, at the end?
fell asleep unexpectedly
 
user1804599
@Ven C++.
 
Ven
@Elyse ok, so you didn't change later
 
@Elyse Tried audiere yet?
 
user1804599
No. I just woke up.
 
12:07 PM
True porngrammars never sleep
 
Ven
mmmh, grammars...
 
They hibernate for 3 to 5 hours and resume work where they stopped before hibernating
 
user1804599
Brussels Parliament ratified EU-Ukraine Association Agreement. All #EU countries completed the ratification process! https://t.co/xKyl0IMZvB
 
user1804599
lolwut
 
user1804599
Netherlands shouldn't have; they would wait until the referendum about it has taken place.
 
user1804599
12:12 PM
Which is in April 2016.
 
which referendum
 
What do you think: is it possible to write (and build) grammar as complex as modern C++ one?
Using Spirit.X3
 
Ell
Have you seen this @ElimGarak?powerpoint.officeapps.live.com/p/…
Using OpenGL to put arbitrary GCN binaries on the GPU
For when dx12/vulkan still isn't enough :P
 
@sehe
 
@Ell Well, not that in particular, but the gist of it, yes. It's both cool and shit at the same time. :D Coolio that it can be done, coolio for experimentation, but I hope nobody actually uses it. I am against GameWorksy hardware-specific crap regardless of GPU IHV camp. :D Naturally, consoles are excluded here, as different APIs anyways, ISA hackery allowed because both are GCN based.
But I do hope Nvidia picks up on the cool stuff AMD is doing with GCN. Wonder whether Pascal could even the scales a bit.
 
12:26 PM
@Ell wow
just... wow
 
Ell
Yeah it's awful but awesome
Such a massive hack, its pretty cool :P
I'm surprised that he didn't get BSODs though
I admire nouveau devs
I've no clue how they do it
 
@Ell i love mey meys
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus lol yeah that's p annoying
 
@Ell Windows is fairly good at recovering from driver faults now
Mostly because drivers are shit
 
@sehe A huge thank you! I watched the video and read the answers. I will totally accept one of your answers (and upvote all three), but before accepting one I'll study a bit more which way I should go.
I still have work to do before "reaching the parsing data"
I don't have a plaintext file yet (unless I write it myself).. I need to sweat to get that data
 
12:39 PM
Because building things to scale is a chore. The airlock is supposed to be 30% of the width of the ship at that intersection.
 
There is some dark bits and slightly less dark bits
Good picture
 
It's the Normandy, bby. In Dock 422. Citadel. Everything else is UE3's fault. And the sticking out airlock, that's all BioWare. :P
 
Ugh I can't figure out a non-shit architecture for game settings
Runtime reconfiguration is garbage
 
user1804599
I wish zmq4 Go library weren't so broken w.r.t. error handling.
 
I wish Go wasn't so broken wrt error handling
 
user1804599
12:51 PM
It doesn't automatically retry on EINTR, and doesn't panic on bugs like receiving from a send-only socket.
 
@Dean :D
 
s/rror handl/veryth/
 
@Dean I wrote some myself too :) All 5 approaches are extensible
@Orient hi there
 
@sehe hi
 
I didn't get what you meant with the comment. Are you solliciting general feedback on Spirit X3? Do you think it should be possible to implement X3 even simpler?
 
12:53 PM
X2 should be enough yes
 
(Welcome to the lounge by the way)
 
thanks
but i've been here before
 
... sigh - good job confusing my Spirit friend :)
 
TIL sehe has an imaginary friend
 
Only the Holy Spirit is imaginary
 
12:55 PM
inb4 Assassin's Creed joke
 
BTW my flatmate mentioned I'm not allowed to bring in friends
 
@sehe Yes, I want to hear your authoritative general feedback on Spirit X3
 
good flatmate
 
@GregorMcGregor She's the only friend you need
 
@CatPlusPlus Technical or gameplay settings?
 
12:56 PM
@Orient Ah. I suppose I could shed some comments on the mailing list. In some occasions I do miss the "brevity" of Phoenix. But generally speaking, I love X3 a lot
 
@GregorMcGregor wow change flatmates
 
I also miuss the attribute transformation directives (attr_cast, as<>, as_string etc) but they might come
@GregorMcGregor Only bring in enemies!
 
you always seem to be running into really good flatmates ...
 
@GregorMcGregor Well, you only have virtual friends <3
 
maybe you can rent the apartment then sublet if you are really annoyed?
 
1:00 PM
Do you guys think that lack of modules in C++17 and ISIS could be connected
 
Certainly
 
no
 
@GregorMcGregor That's the only way they can do damage to the Lounge
 
typename TErrorist
 
user1804599
@GregorMcGregor Yes. ISIS is literally Hitler.
 
1:04 PM
That's not connected to holo_cast<> proposal
 
well, I guess a sense of humor is not a bad thing.
 
@sehe lol
 
user1804599
I think Dia is the worst application ever made, but there are such few alternatives... — cYrus Nov 29 '10 at 20:49
 
user1804599
Worst application ever made.
 
I was reading this article that compared al-Qaeda to Harvard that accepted only the elites, then it compared ISIS to a trash bin that accepted the rest ...
that discrimination, even amongst terrorists ...
 
1:08 PM
WORST X EVER
 
comparisons are fun.
Also they suck at reality
 
Ven
I ship Daesh X Harvard.
 
I'm gonna come back when the pun storm settles. Peeps, it's been fun. For ~15s
Oh. Deus Ex
 
I'm thinking about leaving before I convey any more humorless remarks, or fail to react to someone's pun.
 
In other news, someone gave me money on livecoding. Again. This is still most unexpected.
 
1:11 PM
@sehe probably the music.
 
lolno
 
@sehe yes, I wasn't serious.
 
Progress!
 
user1804599
Google Drawing sucks at flowcharts.
 
user1804599
OmniGraffle is great but not for Windows. :v
 
1:23 PM
@ElimGarak The user-settable ones
Static typing is shit for this
And without attribute access interception
Awful boilerplate garbage
 
Ell
what is "runtime reconfiguration"?
reading the config file on every game play?
 
Reconfiguration... at runtime?
You can change the settings while the thing is running
And they need to apply
 
Ell
Oh.
What is the issue with it? Can't you just write config to a file when the user clicks "apply"?
 
Which means that the setting values need to be both mutable and notify other parts of the system that they changed
Which sucks without an interception mechanism
 
Ell
hmm
 
1:40 PM
@sehe more or less than $20?
 
Ell
1:54 PM
ugh Elementary cabal doesn't support sandbox
I really need to change from this POS
 
@chmod666telkitty yes
 
yes or true?
maybe 1 even
 
actually, neither if you really must know
 
tabs vs ISIS
 
come on peeps. let's not institutionalize boredom with lowlevel stars
 
1:55 PM
lol
sehe jelly
 
much
 
Repeating jokes sure makes them funnier every time
 
my specialty
be assured that this isn't the last time I make it
 
next time you won't make it
 
I mean al-Qaeda had a billionaire, some engineers & people who can fly planes. ISIS has a bunch of high school graduates who talk big and are willing to blow themselves up in the public
 
1:57 PM
You're done. If you feel better trash talking ISIS, fine. But no need to repeat that nonsense here over and over.
 
what did I say
 
Dunno.
 
nah. just the opportunity to imply things :)
Next time you don't _make_ a joke, you just _repeat_ it
 
Ell
I auto oughtomate my initramfs generation
 
1:59 PM
welcome 21st century
We have this in debian for ages.
 
You should check locks on your keyboard too
 

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