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5:00 PM
@райтфолд i'm criticizing the language, not your code.
 
user1804599
I don't care.
 
@StackedCrooked another trick on Coliru that can't be done anywhere else: stackoverflow.com/a/29063417/85371 (online)
 
@райтфолд afk, checking later
 
Have any of you participated in ChallengePost competitions
 
@sehe s/lowebound/lower bound/
 
5:03 PM
@Blob Because the source knows better how to copy itself than the target?
 
user1804599
say "Fizz"x$_%%3~"Buzz"x$_%%5||$_ for 1..100
 
user1804599
Absolutely gorgeous.
 
@райтфолд There's no accounting for taste I guess.
 
Is there a good MBP cover out there that covers the top and the bottom as well as the area on the two sides of the trackpad?
 
which Common Lisp implementation should i use?
 
user1804599
5:09 PM
Clojure.
 
i don't know Lisp but I doubt that's Common Lisp
 
user1804599
It's a lisp dialect implementation which is fairly common.
 
urgh. now i need to read crap to first decide which lisp implementation to learn
 
user1804599
What do you want to do?
 
Sometimes, when I'm bored, I try to imagine a world where C lost and Lisp machines won.
 
5:12 PM
i want whichever one will make me find out why people like Lisp so much fastest.
 
user1804599
Girugamesh is great.
 
user1804599
@Blob Clojure.
 
ok, fine
 
Sometimes, when I'm drunk, I try to imagine a world where the Lounge does not exist.
 
user1804599
Sometimes, when I'm drunk, wait I've never been drunk.
 
5:14 PM
@Pris No--and doing a quick glance, it doesn't look very interesting either. Like many (most?) such things, their user agreement basically says: "we have no responsibility of any kind. If you submit something here, you give us a license to do anything we want with it, forever."
 
user1804599
Let's make this compiler.
 
@Blob My advice would be to start with Racket. It's based on Scheme instead of CL, but for exploring what's good about Lisp, that's almost certainly the better choice.
 
@JerryCoffin based on? I was told they just renamed it
i learned little bits of it for IntroCS but didn't learn anything practical
 
user1804599
Disclaimer: Clojure is the only lisp I've ever used.
 
user1804599
5:18 PM
And Elixir, if you count that as a lisp.
 
@JerryCoffin i think this is the last thing i had to do for the course: hastebin.com/qezilulaja.lisp
 
@Blob Yes and no. It is an implementation of Scheme, but it also includes some things that aren't in the Scheme spec. In any case, it's a solid implementation of Lisp.
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah, wow. I read the T&C and its so shady. They say: "ChallengePost will not have any ownership rights over your User Content." But then they say "By posting Challenge Content on the Site, Posters grant to ChallengePost a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free license to distribute, display and reproduce the Challenge Content"
pretty evil
 
@Blob So you've at least done enough to get started pretty easily. That brings to mind one of the other major advantages of using Scheme: it's what's used in Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, which is arguably the best book ever written on Computer Science.
 
should i follow that book with pen/paper in hand?
i got lost pretty quickly
 
user1804599
5:23 PM
Read SICP.
 
(i read it on my way to school)
 
user1804599
(def badlet? (complement (partial = rightfold)))
 
Actually its not that bad. They can advertise your software but they don't have distribution rights over it
 
@Pris I dunno if it's really evil--they kind of have to have some sort of license to run their site, and this makes their life pretty easy, since they never have to worry about whether they might violate the license terms. At the same time, yeah, anything you post there, you're pretty much giving away completely forever.
 
@JerryCoffin No you're not. You're giving away everything except for the software submission
 
5:27 PM
I learned to look carefully after seeing the terms for some photography contests years ago. They'd have similar terms: we'll give prizes to the top few pictures, but we get full rights to all entries.
 
user1804599
invariant empty? = (count = 0) wonderful.
 
i was reading bitfield...that how the width is cut off
struct{
int age : 1;
}Age;

I wanted to ask if i put -1 their....does (-) sign take some bit space?
 
user1804599
@androidplusios.design Singed overflow is UB, but it's better to ask on Stack Overflow since we're all noobs.
 
UB? @райтфолд
 
user1804599
Yes, UB.
 
5:29 PM
@androidplusios.design undefined behavior
 
user1804599
If you don't know what UB is, you're not a C++ programmer.
 
@androidplusios.design Don't use signed integers with buttfields
 
user1804599
ohh i plonk
 
Or better yet, don't use bitfields at all
 
5:30 PM
yaa that might be the only way...
 
@Pris Unfortunately, no. They have separate parts covering challenges and submissions, so you may have missed the latter, but: "By entering Software or a Submission on our Site, you grant to ChallengePost, and in the case of a Submission, the Poster and any third parties acting on the Poster’s behalf, a royalty-free, non-exclusive, worldwide perpetual license to display publicly and use for promotional purposes the Software or Submission, in perpetuity. "
 
one more question sizeof() always return byte size...what if i want to see bit size?
 
@androidplusios.design Nobody cares about bit size
 
@androidplusios.design how many bits are there in a byte?
 
You don't deal with bits at daily basis
 
5:32 PM
nobody cares but still there got to be someway
 
59 secs ago, by Blob
@androidplusios.design how many bits are there in a byte?
 
@райтфолд yep, was that simple. Ty sir.
 
@androidplusios.design CHAR_BIT is the number of bits in a byte.
 
k @milleniumbug @JerryCoffin thanks
 
user1804599
5:34 PM
There are CHAR_BIT bits in a byte.
 
k @райтфолд thanks
 
user1804599
@androidplusios.design sizeof(T) * CHAR_BIT
 
user1804599
Anyway, don't use bitfields. They're terrible.
 
milleniumbug linked you to a website that said what it was in one phrase: "number of bits in byte "
 
user1804599
5:35 PM
class NonEmptyList
invariant !empty?
 
user1804599
Great. Non-empty list types are very useful in some cases.
 
@JerryCoffin That seems misleading, but it says "display publicly and use for promotional purposes" as opposed to other challenge content which they assume license to sell or do whatever they want with.
I'm chatting with a guy who works there right now ... so lets see what he says
 
user1804599
I thought of detail keyword instead of private.
 
> Traditional
Java, C(++), Fortran, ...
 
Igo sleep. I seem to hve a perambulation problem.
 
5:37 PM
@райтфолд sizeof(age.a); //operand of sizeof() must not be a bit field a suggested by Visual Studio
 
Well they didn’t put "C/C++" I’ll give them that.
 
user1804599
@androidplusios.design Hence bitfields are terrible.
 
user1804599
Don't use them.
 
@Pris Pretty standard
 
then why are all the underlying enumeration in written using bitfield

ios::in , ios::out, ios::app, ios::truc....and many more ?
@райтфолд
 
5:39 PM
@androidplusios.design Not bitfields
@androidplusios.design See stackoverflow.com/a/28686016/1012936
 
Also something being done by iostreams doesn't mean it's a good idea
Usually it's the opposite
 
user1804599
@androidplusios.design Those aren't bitfields.
 
user1804599
They are flags which can be combined with |.
 
user1804599
Bit masks aren't bit fields.
 
@Pris My guess is that it's intended to be marginally more restrictive, and (right now) they may even abide by the restrictions. At the same time, consider (for example) Microsoft licensing Mosaic, then giving it away as IE. You could argue that this was purely promotional, but it still killed any market for Mosaic as a separate product.
 
5:40 PM
@androidplusios.design 'cos high-level master-race have never implemented a driver or protocol-handler.
 
ohh i guess not them but but i remember they do use bitfield...well i won't use them as you guys say it
 
user1804599
(Bit masks are also terrible, use std::set<Flag> for some Flag enum instead.)
 
@райтфолд lol
 
user1804599
Or std::bitset? Dunno whether it has a decent constructor.
 
Wrap a std::bitset
 
user1804599
5:43 PM
Enum-aware bitset would be nicer.
 
@androidplusios.design The "terrible"ness of bitfields is being horribly overblown here. There's nothing wrong with using them, as long as you know what you're dealing with, and they fit your needs (which they very well might).
 
@JerryCoffin The dude I'm chatting to claims its so they can show off your project on the site. I think the legalese is a little overbearing but I don't see how you'd get around that. I guess if you have a really valuable piece of code and are paranoid, don't submit it. But if you have open source code and can quickly piece together something interesting it might be worth it. Some of the prizes have decent $$ payouts
I remember that Ford sponsored one a while back for $50k.
 
lol valuable code
 
user1804599
template<std::size_t N, typename... T>
std::bitset<N> flags(T... fs) {
    std::bitset<N> result;
    auto x{ (result[fs] = true)... };
    return result;
}
 
user1804599
I want N to be inferred from T's enumeration count.
 
5:44 PM
From what
 
user1804599
But C++ is terrible for not having such reflection.
 
I want compile-time type introspection
 
user1804599
Me too, like in D.
 
sizeof...
 
user1804599
sizeof... yields the number of elements in the variadic pack.
 
user1804599
5:45 PM
I want to get 4 for enum T { a, b, c, d }.
 
just add a member to the enum with the biggest value
enum T {a, b, c, d, END=4 }
 
That makes sense yes
 
thats not really 'inferring' though
 
I actually managed to save money this month despite previous one being terrible hour-wise
 
user1804599
#define FLAGS(T, ...) enum class T { __VA_ARGS__, COUNT } XD
 
5:46 PM
@Pris If the sequence of enumerators is monotonic you can just write END, without initializers.
It’s +1 though! Sometimes that makes sense, sometimes not as much.
 
user1804599
Then flags function can use T::COUNT.
 
I'll that it that no one here knows.
 
@райтфолд thats actually kinda cool
 
@Pris Let me put my position clearly: I think posting there is a bit like posting on SO. It might have some return on investment, but it might just as easily not. If you (can afford to) do it gratis great--go ahead. Just don't expect any direct return.
 
guess what I'm having for dinner :D
 
5:49 PM
Dinner
 
¬_¬ even if I did have to use archaic phone technology to place my order
 
I keeep bumping into things
 
@MartinJames that's natures way of telling you to stop drinking
or start...
 
how would we know? @thecoshman
 
@blob do me a favour, compile a nice list of monitors would you :D
it's been on my to-buy list for some time
 
5:51 PM
@Pris Reading further, there's another point that's seriously problematic:
 
though I want to look at replacing the fans in my PC
 
Your Software or Submission must: (a) be your (or your team or organization’s) original
work product; (b) be solely owned by you, your team, or your organization with no other person or entity having any right or interest in it; and (c) not violate the intellectual property rights or other rights including but not limited to copyright, trademark, patent, contract, and/or privacy rights, of any other person or entity. By entering Software or a Submission to a Challenge on the Site you represent, warrant, and agree that your Software or Submission meets these requirements."
 
hopefully it's crappy case fans I am hearing, not one of the cpu/gpu/psu fans...
@JerryCoffin ?
 
@thecoshman i'm the wrong person to ask :| i only know of 2. one that's $115 and another that's like $200 but nooble says it's good
 
It's essentially impossible to be (even close to) certain that a given piece of code doesn't infringe anybody's patents.
@thecoshman See above--part of a reply to @Pris.
 
5:53 PM
@JerryCoffin I should file for a patent on the 'hello world' program...
 
@JerryCoffin Well given that there's no possible way to write software like that they're just being lawyers
 
user1804599
Can be modified to allow empty flag set, I guess.
 
Its like those absurd EULAs you cant actually agree to
 
@райтфолд I'm sure you can do that without the macro
@райтфолд that also has the slight failing in that it can only have one set of flags per program
 
user1804599
5:57 PM
Absolute bullshit.
 
@Pris It's more than that--"warrant" basically means you'll pay the damages if the software is found to infringe a patent. You get a $50K award, then pay $20M in damages...
 
oh wait, I see what that macro is doing
 
user1804599
class Point
  def initialize(x, y)
    @x = x
    @y = y
  end
end

pt = Point.new(1, 2)
# @x and @y of Point are now inferred to be integers
 
user1804599
I see major problems with this kind of type inference.
 
@JerryCoffin Remind me to ask you for advice if I ever decide to sell software :p
 
user1804599
5:59 PM
Although somehow they managed to write a compiler for this language in this language.
 
I wonder if we'll ever see software patent reform
 
@райтфолд That's not inference, the references are untyped
 
@райтфолд Related.
@Pris IMO, we've already seen too much patent reform.
 
Kill patents kill copyright
 
@JerryCoffin ? You're okay with the current patent system?
 
6:07 PM
@Pris The obvious answer to that is another question: Which patent system? There are dozens of them. No, I'm not happy with most of them right now--but (for one example) the most recent round of reform of the US patent system made it substantially worse, not better at all.
 
evening
 
@райтфолд your language?
 
I found it dumb how the onus of submitting prior art to challenge applications can now lie on the public. Its not like your average US citizen is being paid for doing research and doing the job of patent officers for them. They should just can software patents altogether, but it'll never happen
 
SELECT *
FROM world
WHERE "someone"
LIKE '%you%'

...
/> no results

:(
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus This is Crystal, not Ruby.
 
user1804599
6:16 PM
@JohanLarsson No.
 
Great another shitty language
 
@Pris There was a time that (at least in the US) patents on software were not accepted. Then a company (quite blatantly) infringed on a patent--but implemented a few of the crucial pieces as code running on a microprocessor. Since you couldn't patent software, they were in the clear (they thought). The US Supreme Court decided that something being in software or not neither enabled nor prevented its being patented. In itself, I think that was the right call.
 
ruby vs python what do you guys prefer ?
 
user1804599
Scala.
 
6:18 PM
In fact, the refusal to allow (even applications for) patents of software is a large part of what led to most of the mess to start with.
 
user1804599
Ruby is slightly less terrible at Booleanness than Python is. OTOH Python's ecosystem isn't full of morons adding stuff to existing classes.
 
anybody heard of shakespeare
language ?
 
user1804599
Yes, it's beautiful.
 
:) what do people use it for ?
 
@Pris For what it's worth, I wrote a couple of blog posts on the subject a few years ago: coderscentral.blogspot.com/2012/09/…, and coderscentral.blogspot.com/2012/10/…
 
user1804599
6:20 PM
For joking.
 
Hi.
Bin blau.
 
We need moar language.
 
user1804599
We need Mill.
 
Ich hasse meine Freunde.
 
6:25 PM
There's not enough languages that look all the same.
 
Oh. English here.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ...or Portuguese (if you want to talk to yourself).
 
Play sharks game
Click some fish
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Weird, "Freunde" was translated as "friends" while in the context of the phrase it seems more like "enemy".
 
I'm wasted. And it's still before eight.
 
6:28 PM
for whoever understands German: spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/…
 
I lost my friends.
 
I'm so sorry. All of them in one incident?
 
I'm scared.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ...but not yet scarred (we hope).
 
Scared of what? @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
6:40 PM
@CatPlusPlus I got past the first world... and was not in the mood to 'start over'
 
There's ton more content
 
@CatPlusPlus I'm sure there is
 
Hi guys again... Could someone help me fixing this error from this little snippet please: pastebin.com/wavMaMrQ
error: void value not ignored as it ought to be
 
@CatPlusPlus is that still in the first world?
 
6:44 PM
Second
 
I just dove through the gate and was like, screw starting over
 
"Haven" iirc, dunno how types are randomised
 
I think so too
 
@Enissay Don't use new
This is not Java
 
Sea apples is a great source of science
And algae can be recycled into shitton of stuff
 
user1804599
6:45 PM
Since I want Java interop I need null.
 
user1804599
I thought of calling it forgiveme.
 
@Enissay temp-> is akin to (*temp). so *temp-> makes little sense. Also, there is no need for dynamic allocation there. Stop being bad.
 
@Enissay Also, your operator+= returns void, and it probably shouldn't.
 
@Enissay An ideal compiler would also say: "Memory leak detected".
 
all in all, go learn the language
 
6:48 PM
@Enissay Also, don't return const MyClass. MyClass is enough.
 
@thecoshman +1 for the *temp->... However I don't understand why I shouldn't use dynamic allocation
 
@Enissay Try:
MyClass operator*(unsigned int n, MyClass const& a) {
        MyClass temp;
        for (unsigned int i = 0; i < n; ++i)
                temp+=a;
        return *temp;
}
 
@milleniumbug well the prototype const MyClass operator*(unsigned int n, MyClass const& a) is mandatory, i'm just completing the difinition
 
user1804599
I have Enissay plonked.
 
user1804599
So just ignore the person.
 
6:53 PM
@Enissay In that case, fire whoever mandated it.
 
@JerryCoffin lol, it's probably for learning purpose... It's a part of a course on coursera xD
 
user1804599
I know what keyword I will use for null: reconsider.
 
@Enissay Then find some place else to learn--specifically, one that will at least attempt to teach you close to correctly.
 
AndroidStudio is such garbage
I wish I could get paid to pump out applications that are so shit
 
@JerryCoffin it's not bad for beginners.... Perfection comes later... I think
 
6:56 PM
@Enissay no
 
BTW, @sehe has asked for the course link... here's it: coursera.org/course/intropoocpp
it's in french (audio) subtitled in english (and some other languages)
 
@Enissay If what you're showing is any indication, then yes it is bad for beginners. It's not simply short of perfect--it's teaching you things you'll need to un-learn later to have any clue of how to do things right.
 
@JerryCoffin I totally understand your point of view...
 
user1804599
Use IntelliJ and Scala.
 
user1804599
Or Vim and Scala.
 
user1804599
7:01 PM
Or Emacs and Scala.
 
@райтфолд ...or a decent editor with a decent language (which guess would just be "D. none of the above").
 
I have 3 terribly boring assignments left
don't want to do any of them ;_;
 
Who wants to see if they can past my High School Algebra and Geometry Test? I am creating a tutoring start up and this is what I'll be giving my tutors: filedropper.com/highschoolalgebraandgeometry
 
user1804599
Nobody.
 
@Cinch You're going to have to try harder than that to get us to do your test for you.
 
7:07 PM
@JerryCoffin It'll be an open standard that'll be published in the same manner as open source software. Documentation for any evaluations will also be available once a person leaves a company for any resume purposes as well. It's designed to be attractive to have once you go through our system.
 
@Cinch Sounds like a fraternity.
 
@JerryCoffin Except we're a business?
 
> One of your students, Timmy, has come to you with a problem. He copied the folowing
work from another student and turned it in, but he answer was marked wrong
why the fuck did you give Timmy a test before teaching him the concepts
 
@Blob yeah it's a really rough draft but I need to see.
@Blob Not my problem. We're tutors.
 
7:09 PM
Startup certifications are very attractive to have, yes
 
@CatPlusPlus That's not the point.
@CatPlusPlus It's designed to be attractive and helpful at the same time by ensuring "deep comprehension" and "critical reasoning"
 
You really nailed down marketing talk, that's for sure
 
@CatPlusPlus Hence, start-up.
Also, the acronym is gonna be SOS 2015. (bwahahahaha)
 
@Cinch You think fraternities aren't?
 
@JerryCoffin ...I think they also rely heavily on the social aspect. We don't. (though all businesses do with PR and also it's inherently a part of business so we're back where we came from guys, have a nice day)
ARGUMENT SELF-DESTRUCTION COMPLETE.
> It is significance
I do not grammar.
 
user1804599
7:18 PM
bukkake
 
@Cinch It's all right--claiming to be an educator but sounding uneducated is actually quite common.
4
 
@JerryCoffin I don't care right now as it is a rough draft
 
@JerryCoffin Is there only one stdout/stdin?
 
@райтфолд Pankkake
 
user1804599
lol
 
7:29 PM
Heading back to civilization from the swamp
 
@JerryCoffin fixedness
@Enissay thankedness
@Blob see, this is what you're really in school for! Discipline. Do the boring work
 
Also lol cinch still teaching what you don't know?
 
@sehe please ;_;
i'm trying to find some fun ways to procrastinate
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow this is cool: docjar.com/docs/api/sun/misc/…
 
spent most of yesterday looking up crap about computers
 
user1804599
7:35 PM
Allows you to throw checked exceptions without the compiler knowing!
 
i'm going to guess the compiler "knows" but doesn't "care"
 
You should google some of those things before you clamp down on "the experts". They may know a lot, but won't have time to chew and spoonfeed. Those are compiler flags. If you don't know how your build tool works, godspeed. Of course the ulimit is there to mimic a low-memory envirnoment. You shall not put it anywhere, since you're already out of memory — sehe 31 secs ago
@Blob fap
 
@sehe the fun goes away as soon as you're done.
which isn't long
mostly a waste of time
 
Beer. Sleep.
 
Yes, kool-aid!
 
7:39 PM
I'm just motivating you to do some actual work
 
@Puppy Why hello there.
 
Damn it.
Bubble tea is amazing.
 
7:54 PM
@Nooble Thai tea is also amazing.
ty ice tee
 
@Cinch Yep.
 
user1804599
lol shog being a fool again
 
keep us posted
 
I just choked on a bubble.
Or whatever those are called.
 
@Nooble Boba.
 
7:58 PM
damn, from $590 (w/o monitor) to $620 in one day. at this rate, black friday won't do shit.
 
@Blob still on monitors are ya?
 
@Cinch no, computer in general
 
@Blob How much can you blow away?
 
@Cinch A few inches.
 
@Nooble Define "few"
 
7:59 PM
@Cinch i don't have a limit. i just want cheap crap.
 

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