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10:00 PM
@JerryCoffin Well it IS a beginner's tutorial.
 
Let's collectively hate the author of the universe
I blame him/her it for the facetiousness that abounds
 
Are there other libraries I should consider?
 
user1804599
Cool. I can through the type system guarantee that a compilation phase can only attempt to access the information that's actually available.
 
Eventually I hope to learn Vulkan but that's pretty out there.
 
@Cinch Boost, it should be noted, isn't a library--it's an entire collection of libraries, with widely varying goals. Some are quite easy to use. Others require a lot of study to even get started with them. Building the library is rarely (IME, anyway) the major hindrance though.
 
10:01 PM
@JerryCoffin I know.
 
user1804599
So in the inheritance resolving phase, for example, it cannot look up methods.
 
user1804599
Because the type system doesn't allow it to.
 
@JerryCoffin For beginners, building is hard.
Anything command line is hard.
g++ hello_world.cpp is already hard for the first-timers.
Flags are arcane.
How do I get them to the point where they can compile and link correctly, create their own libraries, use build systems, source control, and be able to debug?
 
@Cinch That depends heavily on the beginner in question. Some Linux users find command lines quite natural.
 
@JerryCoffin It's geared towards the complete beginner, which means probably no Linux experience.
I will require them to switch over to Linux eventually but that's not a good idea for true blue beginners.
I would also like a recommendation for a semaphore library
 
10:04 PM
@Cinch Linux does have a fairly small market share--but it's much larger among programmers than the population in general. At the same time, attempting to "require" somebody to switch to Linux is a truly horrible, stupid idea.
@Cinch Standard atomic stuff works fine (IME).
 
@JerryCoffin Does it? I hear people are unhappy with stuff like std::thread.
 
@Cinch std::thread is an embarassing abomination.
 
@Puppy See?
 
I did indeed observe it as I was typing it.
did I qualify for the lottery winnings now?
 
@JerryCoffin Well, personally I would introduce Vagrant and the idea of using Linux VM for compiling and testing
But that's not really switching
 
10:07 PM
@Cinch std::thread is not the same as "atomics stuff". I'm talking about chapter 29, not 30.
 
@JerryCoffin What chapter
 
I wonder
 
@Cinch 29.
 
@Cinch configuration management and software deployment continues to be the hard part in ICT anyways and regardless. It's where the rubber meets the road
 
@sehe ICT?
Info. and Comp. tech?
 
10:08 PM
@Cinch Methodically
Not by skipping it
 
@CatPlusPlus I plan to introduce it to them naturally.
Btw what is a good, generally accepted build system?
 
> naturally
 
Is CMake good?
 
So in a horrible way.
 
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means
 
10:08 PM
No.
It's terrible.
 
If you have an object that can be drawn to the screen. And the drawing of the screen depends on something in the implementation of said object. Should the object draw and manage itself or should there be an external friend object/function that draws it?
 
@Jefffrey Depends on paradigm.
 
Yes you gotta have an object manager
 
@Cinch Wait what.
"Command line is hard, let's learn C++"?! How does that work
 
Preferably two, in case one of them gets ill
 
10:09 PM
@sehe First I introduce them to the Command Line.
Then we introduce them to g++
 
@Cinch I dunno. It's what they call it here.
 
Which takes entirety of 1 minute
 
@Cinch Please be bash.
 
@CaptainGiraffe It's Windows, so...
 
10:10 PM
Yeah.
 
@Cinch Are you teaching them sys adminning or C++?
 
Seriously, Vagrant
 
@sehe C++?
 
Prepare a ready to use dev environment
 
So.
 
10:11 PM
Or just give them Docker images.
 
@CatPlusPlus looks interesting.
I don't know about VM work though.
 
That assumes Linux host
 
Or for ones for some VM.
 
@Puppy Pfft lean to blind type
 
Even with Docker it's better to go through Vagrant
 
10:12 PM
@CatPlusPlus Yeah. Hence the second message. :P
 
sehe a good part of teaching younguns programming is to have them realize they are not automagically privvy to programming just because of facebook skills.
 
Precisely
@Cinch I venture that using e.g. Visual Studio is harder. Especially if the goal is to teach how it works.
 
@sehe I pretend that visual studio doesn't exist because Microsoft.
 
Same for any most other C++ IDE
 
@sehe I don't start them off with IDE because compiling and linking can get complicated if something goes wrong. I spent too much time learning how to do both when if I started with basics I couldn't done stuff faster.
 
10:15 PM
But a demonstration at a terminal or a console will create the sophisticated "hacking" mode. This dispels the "I know Candy Crush, I know computers" swiftly.
 
@sehe There was a time I'd have tried to argue that--but I can't even attempt to any more. Microsoft has made VS fairly easy to use once you know it, but almost insanely difficult to learn.
 
It is cheap, but effective.
 
@CaptainGiraffe It also shows /how little/ is actually required
 
@sehe I start them off with MinGW and Notepad++.
Reasonable I would say.
 
@sehe Of course. It is not within my say.
 
10:16 PM
@Cinch I'd tend to agree
 
I think it's best to not assume any tool(set).
let them use whatever
you're teaching the language, not the tools
 
@Blob Then they spend too much time looking for toolsets when they should be learning.
 
@Cinch ...except, of course, when it isn't (which is usually). I'm pretty sure I'd quit immediately if I were expected to use that combo.
 
@Blob Whatever is bad.
 
@JerryCoffin Why?
Too hard?
 
10:17 PM
6 mins ago, by sehe
@Cinch Are you teaching them sys adminning or C++?
Partially agreed. I'd not assume anything, but pick a flavour to demonstrate things with if needed
 
@Cinch Foreign to the vast majority of users. Most have probably already used a text editor. As Blob said above, you should be concentrating on the language, not the tools.
 
@Cinch too esoteric, perhaps.
 
@sehe Hm... I'll just make a video then.
 
that's worse
 
no one watches video tutorials
 
10:19 PM
Anything that's not copy pastable is not a tutorial. Video's are fixed-pace. That's a guarantee that it'll suit at most ~10% of your audience.
 
Yep videos are crap.
 
@Cinch You could, of course, make a vid showing the installation of your recommended tools. Make sure it's <4 minutes. And only /in addition to/ the written steps
 
@sehe Yup.
What's a good recording software?
 
I've been doing this for 17 years. The best I can do is what I did last thursday: - You understand your code looks like a mess? -Yep it's not pretty.
 
Good job, github
 
user1804599
10:21 PM
Hello world in all programming languages I know: gist.github.com/rightfold/244708a5f3b07e225e3b
 
user1804599
And Brainfuck, but CBA.
 
That dude sits til 1:am and works that code until it looks like perfectly beautiful code.
 
@райтфолд s/:/ "Hello world" in:/
 
@райтфолд Thank you
 
@райтфолд what about any assembly language?
 
10:22 PM
@райтфолд And the prize goes to Python/Lua!
 
Fascinating
 
He had the biggest smile when he presented that. My smile afterwards matched.
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey :P
 
user1804599
@Blob Don't know any of those.
 
how does one properly debug C++ without knowing a decent amount of assembly?
 
user1804599
10:23 PM
Well I could write it in LLVM assembly.
 
@CaptainGiraffe ?
 
@Blob Debugging at assembly level is rarely necessary
 
@Blob using a debugger that reads the debug information?
 
@CatPlusPlus what.. is this why i hate using debuggers?
 
Most debuggers can work at source level
 
10:24 PM
@sehe Did it become coherent in the end?
 
No
 
user1804599
I don't debug C++ code.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Ah. Now the fog receded
@CaptainGiraffe (Been doing /what/ for 17 years? What did you do last thursday? Who are the people talking?)
 
1 - Your code is a mess. 2 - Dude works for 7 hours straight, produces nice looking code, feels-sweet-as-honey.jpg. 3 - Presents it to me smiling his ass off. I get tear in my eye.
 
I understand now I'm usually that guy.
I love polishing on code. SO really scratches that itch too
@CaptainGiraffe It's nice when teams work
 
10:29 PM
I know. You are a big part of making me find that an art in itself. Good names of course.
Names are not enough, it should also be elegant.
 
holy shit my computer almost died.
 
Yep. This guys team are commonly referred to as my students.
 
@Cinch You made it read your tutorial?
@CaptainGiraffe Nice
 
user1804599
How can I remember all these syntaxes?
 
@Rapptz Somehow missed that earlier. Seems apt.
@райтфолд By obsession
 
user1804599
10:32 PM
Yet remembering German cases proved extremely difficult?
 
user1804599
I like the PHP hello world program the best.
 
user1804599
It's just Hello, world!. Nice, short and to-the-point.
 
Racket: "Hello, World"
 
user1804599
Everything up to <?php is printed verbatim. :D
 
That's not PHP code
 
10:33 PM
Who wants to help me out with bitwise shifting?
 
Not in CLI mode
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus It is.
 
user1804599
» echo 'Hello, world!' | php
Hello, world!
 
Still not code anyway
 
user1804599
zoidberg :: ~/temp » echo 'Hello, world!' > hi.php
zoidberg :: ~/temp » php hi.php
Hello, world!
 
10:35 PM
I like `cat` best.
$ echo "Hello, World" > hi.cat
$ cat hi.cat
 
user1804599
@DemCodeLines Only if you are generating powers of two with obscure operators.
 
user1804599
cat isn't a programming language.
 
php appears to be doing the same thing.
 
user1804599
Not if you have <?php in your file.
 
user1804599
Fun fact: PHP generates bytecode in the parser.
 
10:36 PM
This explains HipHop success
 
user1804599
It has to do that because that's the only way to make it fast since PHP files are parsed over and over and over again.
 
I think that's a load of bullshit
 
user1804599
They are parsed and compiled on every request.
 
user1804599
Unless you have a bytecode cache, but almost nobody has that.
 
I believe that. I'm not convinced it makes sense to generate from the parser, for that reason
 
10:38 PM
@райтфолд Not even close in any sane environment.
 
user1804599
PHP 7 is getting rid of it though.
 
i should do my assignments
bye
 
@райтфолд You'll forgive me if I think it would be better for us to just get rid of PHP.
 
user1804599
bye slut
 
Need help with number of one bit shift that will divide an unsigned value by 8.
 
user1804599
10:40 PM
Magic variables are great.
 
@DemCodeLines 3
 
@DemCodeLines What does shifting by one bit do?
 
How?
 
@DemCodeLines Try three!
 
x / 8
 
10:41 PM
Any logic behind 3 or just a guess?
 
user1804599
@DemCodeLines 2^3 = 8
 
Yes, it's just a guess
 
@DemCodeLines I'll repeat: what does shifting by one bit do?
 
People always guess when they use bitshifts
 
@DemCodeLines Just a guess of course. We here have no understanding whatsoever of computer representations.
 
user1804599
10:46 PM
coooooool, ManagementFactory.getRuntimeMXBean().getInputArguments()
 
@CaptainGiraffe I corroborate this information. We're fraudsters. Until just now I had never heard of bit shifts. (But I did suddenly realize my keyboard has had the shift key all along!)
 
damnit i can't
i don't want to do this
fuck this
 
I think my little brain needs a video on why overengineering is bad in code
 
I just asked so I can apply that logic to other problems too instead of asking and annoying you guys.
 
user1804599
cat in Ruby is so simple.
 
user1804599
10:50 PM
Just print $<.
 
@Jefffrey Study this instead.
 
The friendly Giraffe is always available to help. The binary number system that we love uses only two digits. so 10101 is twice the number 1010. So 1010 is twice the number of 101. and 101 is twice the number of 10. 2 divided by 2 is 1, which is 1 in binary.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Well, that's perfectly clear then.
 
user1804599
Would it make sense to have a volatile final variable in Java?
 
user1804599
Is it even possible?
 
user1804599
10:53 PM
I think it would be nonsense.
 
@JerryCoffin Nice paper! thatsmathematics.com/mathgen/…
 
@JerryCoffin lol, I remember this from somewhere else
 
@MartinJames If you are curious why hippos have wrinkles, just ask.
 
Damn Windows
Everytime.
 
#Hint cookies.
 
10:56 PM
is there something i can do in a CS class that a teacher wouldn't mind besides paying attention?
 
@Blob A large bribe for pass grade?
 
@MartinJames i get those anyways
she seems to not mind much when i'm installing something, but i ran out of things i need
 
user1804599
Funfact: the Dutch word for "windows" is "ramen."
 
@райтфолд I have noobles.
 
@Blob Paying attention is all I want. Install all the stuff you need over the wifi.
 
10:59 PM
@CaptainGiraffe :|
 
@Blob If you need 10 seconds to install or look something up. I would not mind if you asked for it.
This is in a 20 or less people class.
 
@orlp I'm afraid I can't take any credit for that paper. The author may be a relative (nearly all Coffins in the US can be traced back to one family) but the relationship may be quite distance.
 
@JerryCoffin Look at the other author
@JerryCoffin and then look at the contents
and maybe look at the URL :P
 
@orlp Ah, the light begins to dawn. I'm slow, but catch on when it's slapped in my face.
 
@JerryCoffin I think it's a pretty ingenious bullshit generator
@JerryCoffin bullshit formatted in latex still looks impressive :P
 
11:06 PM
Wut
 
@orlp This friday I had a person comment. I find the font unappealing.
 
@Blob You're so much like me. You'll have to just start. And find a way to like some aspect of it
@райтфолд actually "vensters"
 
user1804599
Both are correct translations.
 
user1804599
"Vensters" and "ramen" are synonyms.
 
user1804599
Silly, static initialisers cannot be strictfp in Java unless the entire class is strictfp.
 
11:10 PM
strictfp?
 
@orlp nice. Too much "Every student is aware" though. As in. Wayyyy too much
 
user1804599
Yes, strictfp.
 
huh
apparently Putin has disappeared.
 
what?
 
@Puppy We better start looking for the nukes.
 
11:11 PM
I wish I'd known of this sooner so I could throw a party.
 
user1804599
inb4 nuke
 
I just realized I made the unforgivable mistake of putting my own name first instead of in alphabetical order
 
@райтфолд Thanks for enlightening me
 
@Puppy I'm not so sure
 
@JerryCoffin I'm sorry for doing that on our fictitional paper!
 
user1804599
11:12 PM
@CaptainGiraffe No problem.
 
@Blob According to the BBC. bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31897304
 
@райтфолд slow poke
 
stalkers everywhere
 
user1804599
Abyx has also disappeared.
 
user1804599
Perhaps all of that terrible country has disappeared.
 
11:13 PM
ITT: Abyx is President Putin.
 
Anyone checked the drunk-tanks?
 
@orlp Shame on you
 
user1804599
s/President/Dictator/
 
@orlp I'm pretty sure I'll manage to push through the pain, somehow....drinking. Yes, I think I need to go have a drink.
 
user1804599
@orlp For school?
 
11:14 PM
@райтфолд starboard
 
user1804599
Oh it's generated.
 
user1804599
lol
 
You slobby sonofabitch could have just told me that strictfp in Java is a standardized fp IEEE 754 in the Java VM.
 
anyone know VB?
 
@райтфолд hehe
 
11:16 PM
@Tarson i used to
 
user1804599
@Tarson Not you, apparently.
 
@Tarson I have never met this man before in my life. Never!
 
@chmod711telkitty yup. we're stalking the news. Naughty us
 
user1804599
@sehe sehe
 
I can't decide what resources to use in a space game
 
11:16 PM
you make that joke too often
 
Well anyone who knows VB how do i get GPU info?
 
user1804599
hehe
 
@CatPlusPlus tabs!
 
user1804599
@Tarson No. Ask on Stack Overflow.
 
@sehe I'm shocked
 
user1804599
11:17 PM
@CatPlusPlus Helium.
 
@райтфолд I did no one answers
 
user1804599
@Tarson Not the problem of Lounge<C++>.
 
Vacuum cleaners.
 
user1804599
Especially because as you can see this is not Lounge<VB>.
 
@райтфолд Your username has Spam Email letters
 
user1804599
11:18 PM
And your mother is a whore.
 
@Tarson What?
@райтфолд Double what?
 
@Tarson Probably about the same way you would with any other .NET language (i.e., probably not very well).
 
@Tarson His name is in a different alphabet. Welcome to Earth.
 
@райтфолд Well both Microsoft coding
 
@Tarson No it doesn't
@Tarson Yes it was answered 23 hours ago
 
11:19 PM
@райтфолд What? She never charged me.
 
@sehe Doesn't what?
 
...
Incompetence oozing in orbit
 
user1804599
I charge people in coulombs.
 
@Tarson check your question again
 
I give 1.6E-19 fucks about your question.
 
11:21 PM
@райтфолд nerdy :)
> My least favorite is Python, My most favorite would either be C# or C++ or VB
He's your kin, @райтфолд
 
@Tarson "Spam" in Cyrillic would be "Спам", which is different letters from the ones in his user name.
 
@MartinJames That is a negative charge!
 
user1804599
This is wonderful.
 
how can python be your least favorite?
 
user1804599
stopper := Optional.of(poll(interval, callback, |event| { broker.sendAndSync(event) }))
 
11:22 PM
oh wait
you like writing unreadable code
 
@CaptainGiraffe That's what the whores say.
 
@JerryCoffin claps
 
user1804599
I typically find Python code quite unreadable.
 
@Blob Ok, what is the location for the GPU name/spec in "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE"? Cause I tried that guys answer nothing worked
 
user1804599
With the horrible significant indentation and lack of variable declarations.
 
11:23 PM
@Tarson i don't use windows. i don't know.
 
Nothing worked, how terrible
Our collective heart bleeds for you
 
> Also in eclipse I have a block text cursor how do I fix that?
 
@Tarson Well, can't you look for it with regedit?
 
@MartinJames I've tried
 
11:24 PM
Try again
Until you can
 
@CatPlusPlus The cpu HKEY is "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\HARDWARE\DESCRIPTION\System\CentralProcessor\0" but there is no GPU name/spec. And well do you know it?
 
Oh god. It must be tiresome to live with such a leaky brain.
"Where did all the logic go". All the fucking time
 
I don't care, do your own goddamn research
I have a space game to do
 
tab*
 
@CatPlusPlus What was the reason i came here? I CANT FIND IT!
 
11:26 PM
@CatPlusPlus are you making a cookie-clicker clone? :|
 
user1804599
> you should use the smallest amount of data possible to accomplish a task, so you don't run out of memory.
 
The reason you came here is the reason we don't want you to stay here hth
 
@Tarson none of us know any VB at all. heck, we can barely even program.
 
user1804599
> Java
 
@Blob Dunno
I don't have a plan
"Space game" is all I have
 
11:27 PM
we just talk about haskell and how real paranormal things are
 
Someone kick the leech? Thank you
 
It'll probably be cookish/OGameish/economicish
Dunno
I'll probably get bored way before there's anything that works
 
Hey, I know! You should make the perfect game that does everything!
 
@райтфолд Yup. I always run out of memory when I use double
 
I have a plan. I want to record/display my weight in real-time. I can put a strain gauge on the chair leg, but I don't know what to do about my feet.
 
11:28 PM
But if I go to sleep then Monday will come sooner
We can't have that
 
oh shit crap damnit
ok fuck this
i really need to work
if i come back
please kick me
 
user1804599
@sehe Divide 1.0 by it and use multiplication instead of division and vice versa. The number will be smaller so it will save memory.
 
@Blob do as cinch does, just live pair with a couple of loungers who will enjoy berating you and your assignment
> "Try to beat me THIS time, Russia" — N. Bonaparte
 
user1804599
Also be sure to assign all your local variables to null before returning as this will help the garbage collector.
 
11:30 PM
@CatPlusPlus is your favourite day caturday?
 
I love jokes that were old 8 years ago
 
@райтфолд It certainly will!
@CatPlusPlus Hey, I was late, yes
 
user1804599
def start(): Unit ensure running? abstract end
 
user1804599
Absolutely gorgeous.
 
user1804599
Perhaps I should make ensure work with futures as well; not just Booleans.
 
user1804599
11:36 PM
How about any monad?
 
user1804599
Like def start(): Future ensure out.map(|_| running?).
 
one quick question...does copy & replace works on diff. types of containers ?

vector<int> vec{34,34,45,56};
list<int> lst{3456,67,7,87};|

copy(vec.begin(), vec.end(), lst.begin() );

I get strange output....both my lst & vec appears to be zero after compilation :(
 
user1804599
Should work just fine.
 
user1804599
SSCCE.
 
no
 
11:44 PM
@Puppy you replied for my question?
 
> template< class InputIt, class OutputIt >
OutputIt copy( InputIt first, InputIt last, OutputIt d_first );
I don't see why it wouldn't work.
 
did you compiled it? I got sizeof(vec) and sizeof(lst) == 0
 
:( what wrong with my visual studio -_- sorry for wasting you time blob
 
Read this, but it doesn't exactly tell much about division and multiplication and real problems
 
11:50 PM
is that code not compiling under VC++?
 
i always get some problem while using VC++ when i get don't create new projects and start editing old one's ... i sometimes get strange outputs :(
 
user1804599
Use clang and Z shell.
 
clang supports c++14?
 
More than VC does
 
11:53 PM
@androidplusios.design are you drunk or under 17?
 
616
Q: Absolute Beginner's Guide to Bit Shifting

John RudyI've been attempting to learn C in my spare time, and other languages (C#, Java, etc.) have the same concept (and often the same operators) ... What I'm wondering is, at a core level, what does bit-shifting (<<, >>, >>>) do, what problems can it help solve, and what gotchas lurk around the bend...

 
user1804599
Perl 6 has this:
 
user1804599
for 0..3 {
    print $_;
    LAST { print ";" }
}
 
user1804599
Prints 0123;.
 
epic fail
 
user1804599
11:55 PM
It's extremely nice.
 
its clean like swift: for 0..3 ?
swift has got all the nicest things from all languages
:)
 
you mean, apart from lacking a whole bunch of key features like exceptions.
 

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