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1:00 PM
No, it's shit
 
All of the APL crappiness combined with none of the APL benefits
 
what is apl?
 
a programming language
 
(Well these days it'd probably be J or K)
 
user1804599
[+] does a reduction with +. grep filters the input. * %% (3 | 5) is a lambda that returns true iff the input is divisible by three or by five. %% is the divisibility operator. 3 | 5 means three or five. ^1000 is a range up to a thousand.
 
user1804599
1:01 PM
Not that hard!
 
APL (named after the book A Programming Language) is a programming language developed in the 1960s by Kenneth E. Iverson. Its central datatype is the multidimensional array. It uses a large range of special graphic symbols to represent most operators, giving very concise code. It has been an important influence on the development of concept modeling, spreadsheets, functional programming, and computer math packages. It has also inspired several other programming languages. It is still used today for certain applications. == §History == The mathematical notation for manipulating arrays whic...
 
life←{↑1 ⍵∨.∧3 4=+/,¯1 0 1∘.⊖¯1 0 1∘.⌽⊂⍵}
 
user1804599
I LIKE APL
 
I like Apple.
 
1:02 PM
I like apples
 
I like C# less and less.
 
user1804599
APL is good.
 
Go with that banana.
 
My desk at work is still broken, stuck in upper position.
12+ hour sessions are hard now.
 
user1804599
Don't work for 12 hours straight.
 
1:03 PM
@JohanLarsson You're not worthy
 
>>> sum(n for n in range(1000) if n%3 == 0 or n%5 == 0)
233168
 
@CatPlusPlus how do you mean?
 
anyone can read that
 
user1804599
So much duplication.
 
user1804599
You duplicated n % and == 0.
 
1:04 PM
Oh no
 
god forbit
 
user1804599
Which is terrible.
 
not the n
 
user1804599
Indeed, but the n %.
 
>>> sum(n for n in range(1000) if any(n%m == 0 for m in (3, 5)))
233168
 
user1804599
1:06 PM
Nice, but should be a set instead of a tuple.
 
Nerds
 
why
 
user1804599
Tuples being iterable is wrong.
 
nobody cares
 
user1804599
A set is the correct data structure here.
 
1:07 PM
@райтфолд why would it be wrong to be able to iterate over an ordered set?
 
user1804599
A tuple isn't an ordered set.
 
BECAUSE
 
user1804599
It's an unnamed named tuple.
 
@райтфолд that's the most retarded thing I've heard all week
 
user1804599
Then your weeks must be pretty good.
 
1:08 PM
why would it be wrong to be able to iterate over an ordered collection?
 
You must not be paying attention to this room
 
user1804599
Tuples must not be treated as arbitrary collections.
 
user1804599
They must be treated as an I'm-too-lazy-to-create-a-class alternative to creating a class.
 
I'm iterating over C++ tuples all the time.
 
user1804599
1:09 PM
If you want a collection of an arbitrary amount of elements of the same type, use a list or a set.
 
But everything should be immutable remember
Tuple is an immutable list
Where is your god now
 
user1804599
I don't treat Python tuples as immutable lists.
 
user1804599
I treat them the same way I treat tuples in Haskell.
 
user1804599
The fact that lists and sets are mutable in Python is a problem that must be dealt with in ways other than using the wrong data structure for the job instead.
 
lol
It's the exact same data structure
 
user1804599
No.
 
std::tuple<int, std::string, char> a(42, "lol", 'c'); foreach_tuple(a, [](auto& x){ std::cout << x << "\n"; });
 
Why am I even doing this
 
user1804599
Tuples should be treated as heterogenous and lists should be treated as homogenous.
 
Should make some food
 
user1804599
1:13 PM
That's the main difference between tuples and lists.
 
user1804599
It's a shame that tuples of different lengths have the same type in Python.
 
@райтфолд your implicit assumption is that heterogenous iteration should not happen - which not everyone agrees with
 
user1804599
I don't give a shit about what people agree with or not
 
then don't argue
the point of arguing is to convince other people
 
user1804599
No, I like arguing.
 
1:13 PM
@CatPlusPlus they say that you are what you eat, maybe your brain is unhealthy because you had too much junk food?
 
if you don't care about other people's agreement there is literally no point about arguing
 
@райтфолд They are simply the cartesian product of a bunch of sets
Tuples and lists are so deeply different, I have no idea why people mistake one for the other.
 
user1804599
Because they are idiots.
 
Probably because Python actually. IIRC it calls "tuples" things that are not really tuples.
 
Nobody is mistaking anything for anything
 
1:19 PM
@CatPlusPlus I am!
 
Also, the discussion started at "iterating over a tuple". Now it's about "tuple is heterogenous"
 
And neither matter in the context
Amazing how that works
 
how is a set written in perl?
 
The fuck does iterating over a tuple mean
 
9 mins ago, by milleniumbug
std::tuple<int, std::string, char> a(42, "lol", 'c'); foreach_tuple(a, [](auto& x){ std::cout << x << "\n"; });
 
1:21 PM
lol
 
Wannabe CS purists are cute
 
user1804599
@JohanLarsson Set::Scalar->new(1, 2, 3)
 
I prefer tuple then, for such limited scope it reads better.
 
user1804599
Or set(1, 2, 3) in Perl 6.
 
user1804599
> set(1, 2, 3) ⊂ set(1, 2, 3, 4)
True
 
user1804599
1:25 PM
:P
 
Is seriously an operator in Perl 6?
Or you can define your own?
 
Probably
 
not much fun typing stuff like ⊂
 
user1804599
@milleniumbug Yes.
 
user1804599
@milleniumbug Yes.
 
user1804599
1:26 PM
There's ASCII variants of all non-ASCII operators in the standard library.
 
user1804599
For subset it's (<).
 
By the way, if we're being pedantic set(1, 2, 3) is terrible notation
 
There's little in Perl that's not terrible
So at least that's consistent
 
1:29 PM
There's little in Perl 6 that is terrible
 
user1804599
@orlp Why?
 
Jefffold
rip
 
You were to actually learn Perl 6 instead of just talking randomly then we would have Catfold
Perl 6 is a completely different language from Perl 5-
 
user1804599
> class Jefffrey is Cool { }
>
 
user1804599
Cool is funny.
 
user1804599
1:33 PM
Methods in Cool coerce the invocant to a more specific type, and then call the same method on that type. For example both Int and Str inherit from Cool, and calling method substr on an Int converts the integer to Str first.
 
@райтфолд it implies ordering
we should use this:
 
@райтфолд Yet other people that suck at naming
 
user1804599
It's an acronym!
 
@райтфолд What's Cool?
 
> suckronym
 
user1804599
1:34 PM
Convenient OO Loop
 
...
 
user1804599
FatRat is the best class.
 
In Perl?
 
@Jefffrey I've learned enough thanks
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey Yes!
 
1:35 PM
Sick, I now have 49 milliskeet reputation
 
user1804599
FatRat even has a nude method.
 
Forget what I said about Perl 6 being nice
 
2 mins ago, by milleniumbug
@райтфолд Yet other people that suck at naming
 
user1804599
> (1/2).FatRat.nude.perl
(1, 2)
 
user1804599
Fucking awesome!
 
1:37 PM
> Cool: Value that can be treated as a string or number interchangeably
Dear Lord
 
Isn't perl 6 basically the "I wish we were LISP" version?
@Jefffrey Javascript incarnate
 
(1/2).FatRat.nude.c would be 0?
 
lol
 
and (1/2).FatRat.nude.python would be 0.5?
 
@milleniumbug python3, yes
(1/2).FatRat.nude.python2 would be 0
 
user1804599
1:38 PM
@milleniumbug perl is like Python's repr.
 
(1/2).FatRat.nude.python2_from___future___import_division would be 0.5
 
2 mins ago, by milleniumbug
2 mins ago, by milleniumbug
@райтфолд Yet other people that suck at naming
 
11 secs ago, by milleniumbug
2 mins ago, by milleniumbug
2 mins ago, by milleniumbug
@райтфолд Yet other people that suck at naming
 
user1804599
REPL uses gist.
 
You can stop now, thanks.
 
1:39 PM
8 secs ago, by Jefffrey
You can stop now, thanks.
 
I'll kick the next person hth
Can't leave you for 5 minutes god
 
33 secs ago, by Cat Plus Plus
I'll kick the next person hth
 
Visual Studio sounds nice, except for the part where it uses VC++
 
@Jefffrey honestly, the only thing visual studio has to offer me that I don't have a better free alternative for is a good graphical debugger for C and C++
 
For some values of "good"
I only use it for JetBrains toolset
 
1:50 PM
do you guys know good graphical debuggers?
 
For C++? No
VS one works well for C#
 
do you usually just use gdb from the command line or?
 
I haven't had to debug C++ for a long time now, and I'm happy with that
 
VS is okay IMO
 
@Mr.kbok would really love an alternative to VS =/
 
1:52 PM
Ask Robot about VS C++ debugging experience
 
@orlp Why? There's nothing that I know of that sucks less
 
@Mr.kbok Because I don't like vendor/platform lock in, and I don't like having to change my compiler toolchain to VS.
 
Try KDEvelop then. Last time I did it was still bugged but I thought it was promising
 
why do graphical debuggers only come with IDEs?
what happened to "do one thing, and do it well"?
 
There are standalone GUI frontends to GDB
Nobody uses them probably
 
1:56 PM
@Nooble parents want to wait for black friday/cyber monday :|
oh well
 
@CatPlusPlus last time I checked that out they all had GUIs hideous beyond belief
 
The target group of GDB has this prevalent idea that GUIs are bad or something and that ~~~linux is the best ide~~~
It's all fuckin nerds, that's why
 
Oh man 30sec with netbeans and the suckage already starts to overwhelm me
 
@CatPlusPlus no, coreutils is the best ide
+ tmux
 
@orlp It's supposed to be functional not pretty
 
1:57 PM
@CatPlusPlus unfortunately it was neither
 
I haven't used any of those in a long time though so dunno about the functional part
 
@orlp Because there's a lot of overlap with IDEs
 
@CatPlusPlus when I say a hideous GUI I'm not just talking about aesthetics
maybe "terribly designed GUI" would be a better term
 
Probably
 
Hahaha oh man pulling code from 6 years ago
 
2:02 PM
@Blob That's gotta suck :(
 
@Blob That word does not mean what you think it means
 
@Nooble i hope the thing you mentioned (something new coming out) comes out by then. i might also try to add an SSD if the prices are low enough
> An integrated development environment (IDE) is a programming environment that has been packaged as an application program, typically consisting of a code editor, a compiler, a debugger, and a graphical user interface (GUI) builder.
i have all of those except the GUI part
 
@Blob It'll come out, the R9-300 series are slated for this half of 2015.
 
Hint it's called 'integrated' for a reason
 
If you want a cheap 256GB SSD, get the Crucial MX100.
 
2:04 PM
@CatPlusPlus ok, besides the "integrated" part too
 
user1804599
This is also cool:
 
@Nooble how much $$ is that?
 
user1804599
> 1 xx * Z+< 0..*
1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 ...
 
user1804599
This is beautiful.
 
@Blob 100
 
2:05 PM
@райтфолд that's hideous
 
it's terrible
I don't even know what it's supposed to do
 
user1804599
It returns an infinite list of powers of two.
 
@Nooble hm. hope everything decreases at least $200 total during sale.
 
@Blob Probably will if you buy at Newegg.
 
user1804599
1 xx * replicates 1 infinitely many times. 0..* creates an infinite range of consecutive integers. Z+< zips (Z) with the bitshift (+<) operator.
 
2:06 PM
Ugh
 
?
 
@райтфолд IRTA buttshift (+<) operator
 
@Nooble also, adding a monitor increased it to $700
 
user1804599
bitch ift
 
IRTA bullshit (+<) operator
 
2:08 PM
@Blob Which monitor did you get?
 
(2**n for n in itertools.count())
 
@Nooble Sceptre E225W-1920 60Hz 22.0" Monitor
 
How much is that?
 
user1804599
@orlp Fft, I can also cheat.
 
@Nooble $115 with shipping
 
2:09 PM
lol
 
@райтфолд how is this cheating?
 
Readable code is cheating, don't you know?
 
user1804599
> map 2 ** *, 0..*
1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 ...
 
Yeah that's so much better
 
@райтфолд that's actually much more readable than the horrendous crap you showed earlier
 
user1804599
2:10 PM
No, it's worse because it's less cryptic.
 
There we go
 
@Blob If I were you I'd choose the Asus MX239H 1920x1080 60Hz
 
@Nooble $200?
._.
 
Not to mention it looks beautiful
 
list price $230
plis
 
2:11 PM
I know :(
BUT IT'S BEAUTIFUL
 
Rightfold's life philosophy revealed
 
i'm not sure if bigger monitors are better
 
They're not, they mean less PPI.
 
with my small shit now, i can cover most of the screen with my body
so people can't see everything through door
 
still don't know why my solution is cheating
 
2:13 PM
People get monitors with high PPI so other people can't see anything without 8x magnifying glass
 
I prefer 21:9 monitors.
Sure hope I had one.
 
Even 16:9 is way too much
 
i'm awaiting an absolutely glorious experience
 
Really?
 
for hopefully like $500
 
2:14 PM
I can't even rotate my 24" monitor
 
16:9 Is standard.
 
user1804599
I prefer 100:1.
 
I prefer 1:100
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus :[
 
2:21 PM
@CatPlusPlus please no. i wasted an hour the last time someone posted a link to the universe one
 
That was me too
You're welcome
 
@CatPlusPlus Are you addicted to these kind of games?
 
Cookie clicker clones no longer funny
or fun
 
Cookie Clicker wasn't the first also it's a genre now deal with it
 
:22097433 lol nice, 4 people closing a question, each one with a different close reason
off-topic (superuser), off-topic (server fault), unclear what you're asking, too broad
Also, lol #inlcude
 
2:31 PM
it'd probably be closed in those sites too
if i understand it, all he wants is to move his executable to some "startup" folder
 
@CatPlusPlus thanks, I needed another fad game :D
 
@CatPlusPlus oh god you monster!
 
user1804599
Candy Box 2 is fun.
 
Also kittens game sucks so much
 
user1804599
2:40 PM
It has more interaction than just clicking some buttons.
 
@thecoshman You're welcome
 
@sehe Nice :)
 
user1804599
> Candy Box 2 speed run.
 
3:00 PM
@райтфолд Do you prefer F# or Scala?
 
user1804599
3:14 PM
Scala.
 
user1804599
F# has quite a terrible type system because the CLR has quite a terrible type system and generics aren't erased.
 
user1804599
No higher-kinded polymorphism and bottom type, for example.
 
@Nooble of course I can't draw for shit
But Inkscape can
 
user1804599
And type inference in F# is icky with subtyping.
 
user1804599
Sometimes there are no implicit upcasts, sometimes there are, very weird.
 
user1804599
3:18 PM
I love Perl 6.
 
user1804599
@sehe let's become professional Perl programmers.
 
@райтфолд "Professional Perl programmer" is an oxymoron.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Mill will target the JVM!
 
@райтфолд With what? Nuclear devices?
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow can a Java class have the same name as a Java package?
 
3:23 PM
R# autoformatting is kinda meh
 
@райтфолд It could, but it shouldn't--by convention, package names are all lower-case.
 
@sehe Inkscape does wonders.
 
@райтфолд you first
 
user1804599
ok :3
 
3:55 PM
Generics not being erased like in java I a good thing
 
user1804599
@Puppy Yes, but not if you want to implement a language with more advanced generics.
 
user1804599
You'd need some erasure.
 
user1804599
Or change the target platform to support those generics, which doesn't happen.
 
user1804599
4:24 PM
I wish I were as happy as a dumbass.
 
You are. This is why you are less happy than you expected
 
user1804599
Am I a dumbass? :)
 
user1804599
fizz|buzz|fizzbuzz|\d+ is an ugly regex.
 
user1804599
I want to get rid of the duplication in it.
 
user1804599
4:30 PM
fizz?buzz?|\d+ would allow for the empty string.
 
Another day, another instance of rightfold wishing to be happy
Its like clockwork
also hi all
 
@райтфолд I'm sure none of us would say you are (it would be politically incorrect to insult dumbasses that way).
 
@CatPlusPlus configurable though. Some things are ugly/annoying.
 
You can't force closing paren to next line
It's silly
 
@Pris what the other time you saw this? I remember exactly once
 
4:41 PM
what is a clean way to create byte[] from bit[] in C#?
 
Pretty sure I've seen rightfold say "I wish I were happy" more than just once
 
@Pris I don't think I've seen him state it that directly, but I've assumed that constant search for new languages (for example) just about had to stem from some degree of unhappiness. The real question is whether (for example) he's really unhappy because of shortcomings in the tools, or that he focuses on negatives because he's unhappy (or depressed) on a personal level. I had assumed the former, but the latter is certainly possible.
Speaking from personal experience, from the "inside" it's probably difficult to tell the difference.
 
I'm both
 
I wasn't being too serious about it, but sure. Maybe one day rightfold will find the perfect language and finish the perfect project and all will be well
I don't get really sad at bad tooling or shortcomings in life or whatever I just get mad and then yell at imaginary people in the shower
 
I can imagine feeling a bit empty after finishing the perfect project
Writing the perfect project sounds like much fun.
 
4:53 PM
Really? I'd feel an immense rush of satisfaction. If I actually finished the perfect project I'd probably throw my keyboard out the window and go get smashed
 
I can see both--certainly my immediate reaction would be satisfaction, but I can see where (for example) a month later, that would be gone and I'd probably feel like every project from then on was likely to be something a let-down. I'm pretty sure I'd want to start doing something that was substantially different--embrace some new challenges.
 
user1804599
@JohanLarsson What is bit?
 
I think it happens even before finishing, just after everything is solved and you kow it turned out perfect
@райтфолд BitArray
 
user1804599
var bits = …;
var bytes = new byte[Math.Ceiling(bits.Length / 8.0)];
bits.CopyTo(bytes, 0);
 
CopyTo?
why?
CopyFrom feels better
just renamed to Copy
 
user1804599
4:59 PM
Because CopyFrom doesn't exist?
 

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