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09:01
@рытфолд It is called conservative GC.
user1804599
Right, the term "conservative GC" would definitely have given me a thorough description of how conservative GCs work.
So I answered another ~~purrformance~~ question
Moanings
isn't there a pragma to unroll loops?
#pragma purrformance
4
@AndyProwl lol
09:05
@Mikhail Yeah, but they don't do iteration interleaving.
And compilers don't like to reorder instructions outside of a fairly small window.
Shit. 09:00, (10:00 Germany), and Lord Haw-Haw is after me. Must be bad if he's calling early:(
@MartinJames Who?
@wilx Main German customer:((
@FredOverflow Les Irritables
Fuck. There's email. It's something to do with gallons and quarts, which means merkin. This just gets better and better:(
09:12
wtf
I forgot the tab open at work
it's showing me all of yesterday's @messages
Fucksicles. I haven't got a 16/32 bit build machine for the legacy software any more. My phone destroyed it last year. I'm so shagged..
@AlexM. funny, looks like she's looking at the count
anyway 28 is nothing, I came back to work once to see 1500+
did you go on holiday or sth lol
Use an emulator to test 16/32 bit code?
@AlexM. I chat here a lot if you haven't noticed
it was over a weekend I think
09:15
well yeah but 1500 @replies over the course of a day seems excessive
ooh, weekend
yeah worded that badly
I always shut down my computer on friday
Definitely an interesting approach, but I doubt my compiler supports this. I'll report back when I tried it. — Karsten 21 secs ago
I don't know why
wut
09:16
FWIW updates to windows need installing right about then
@BartekBanachewicz plinks is not messages
@AlexM. I never shut down my computer. I only occasionally reboot it but is always on.
@sehe also. that. I suppose :p
Thanks for the plinks
plink plink
@sehe inb4 gcc 3.x
09:19
@sehe "modified version of GCC for the architecture I am working on" could be some esoteric DSP compiler that's been broken by a hardware manufacturer beyond all repair, so it's not completely implausible.
I have seen people tortured by such things before.
Sounds like the kind of environment @sbi is working on
or a proprietary Keil compiler like the one I was using on my STM
One C-ish compiler didn't zero-initialize static variables, which was great debugging fun for a friend of mine.
@Wintermute lol that's illegal.
The compiler didn't appear to care.
09:23
FWIW neither does MSVC vOv
I cannot attach the MSVC debugger to running processes at the moment, which is also great fun.
Well, I can attach it, but it doesn't see the DLL I'm trying to debug.
This is quite vexing.
@Wintermute you'd fit in here
except I'm probably the only person on this planet for whom MSVC debugger is more reliable than GDB
Oh, it worked fine before the last patch day. It's not usually a bad debugger, but currently it's broken for my use case.
09:28
MSVC's debugger never failed me in my quests
I can still debug the DLL by starting the whole process in the debugger, but I think then it's debugging the whole .net runtime and crawling to a near stop. Although I'm unsure why that should slow down the debugger itself to typing-one-character-per-second speeds.
> illegal
C|N>K
@sehe What does that mean?
> Deactivated Ubisoft game keys were bought from EA's Origin using stolen credit cards
UPDATE: Kinguin refunding £110K, claims a Russian bought the keys. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-01-28-deactivated-ubisoft-game-keys-bought-from-eas-origin-using-stolen-credit-cards
I like how while Ubisoft was deleting games from customers' accounts, they gave the customers their money back
09:35
@AndyProwl google that
way to use the bad guy to highlight your good side even more
Jan 13 at 11:07, by sehe
http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/C/CNK.html
@sehe Ah, makes sense, thanks
It surprised me that the unicode-font, doesn't support some unicode-characters (The Alt + 955 works fine in MS Word, but doesn't work in the cmd.exe or powershell.exe). — Bush 44 secs ago
ugh he still doesn't get it
"unicode-font" uh
@BartekBanachewicz I actually hoogled it at first :D
> Warning: Unknown type |
09:38
hehehe. Nerd-sniped
@AndyProwl hihi. That was a freudian typo of mine I suppose.
Yeah I thought so
interesting one though
I tend to use Hayoo more these days anyway
... gosh. Something about Haskell inviting bad puns
It can actually look inside libraries without you telling it in which ones to look, which is pretty useful :S
09:42
'If your systme not Works like we need we will retunr teh equipment now!! Also, we are expending a lot of money traveling to Medellin, where the system is installed'

Goodbye everybody. It's been fun.
RIP Martin
@sehe My software probably put the wrong oil in some drug king's Merc:(
Hm, template< class T > class Proxy : T& { }; might be an interesting language addition (it will never become a thing)
a drug king's mercenary?
09:45
@MartinJames wut
also what kind of job do you have lol
Mafia: Software Edition?
@AlexM. I guess that would be me, if I made a site visit, (which I will not).
@MartinJames hahahaa
@AlexM. It's fluid management systems for garages - fuel, oil etc. Maybe blood... :(
I don't get where you got the drug king thing tho
that looks like something an Indian would post on SO
09:48
The Medellín Cartel was an organized network of drug suppliers and smugglers originating in the city of Medellín, Colombia. The drug cartel operated in Colombia, Bolivia, Peru, Honduras, the United States, as well as Canada and Europe throughout the 1970s and 1980s. It was founded and run by Ochoa Vázquez brothers Jorge Luis, Juan David, and Fabio together with Pablo Escobar. By 1993, the Colombian government, in collaboration with the Cali Cartel, right-wing paramilitary groups, and the United States government, had successfully dismantled the cartel by imprisoning or assassinating its members...
'If your code not Works like we need we will downrate now!! Also, we are expending a lot of money running your code when the system is installed'
I don't want to be 'downrated' :((
tehn you need to give me full codes to solve my doubt
best regards mohit gupta
this html5 player on youtube always fucking fails when skipping around in the video
fuck this
how do I get back to flash
derp
our fridge at work is full of beer
nvm it worked now
ready for prime time my ass, this is like haskell-ready for prime time /obvious troll
09:53
fuck, are is a lock acquired when a condition variable wakes up due to a spurious event? Is the mutex held twice?
Yes. No.
how do you hold a mutex twice?
I thought its point was that you cannot gain a hold of it until the current holder releases
you can e.g. increase the reader count on a resource
vanilla mutices don't have this
cv.wait(lk);//for some reason gets woken up while another unique_lock was holding it
09:58
How can you tell? That it’s another lock I mean?
user1804599
function get_prefix(level) {
    if (level == 0){
        return '';
    }
    let prefix = '';
    for (var i = 0; i < level; i++) {
        prefix += '&mdash;';
    }
    return prefix + ' ';
}
user1804599
:psyduck:
@AlexM. You can if it's a std::recursive_mutex
bah low-level primitives
spooky stuff
last time I had to deal with this
I didn't, actually
I used boost.asio
the only time I used a primitive to sync multithreaded stuff was in college, some time ago
I never did any parallel stuff with .NET so I was not familiar with anything
went to an exam
turned out I was the only guy in the college to use a semaphore in the C# .NET exam
10:02
I thought the code worked, tested it on 3 machines in our lab. Now it started crashing, on rare occasions when trying to get a mutex, but only after I create and destroy the class before. Its like a zombie mutex.
or UB.
Sometimes I wish I had taken classes in computer science, fucking Quantum Optics isn't helping debug.
> Stroustrup is currently a professor at Columbia and Texas A&M universities
we should award Bjarne the Lounge<C++> Sparkly Prize
10:05
Didn't he already retire from academia?
He did
He works at Morgan & Stanley
full time award recipient?
user1804599
I'm gonna use LLVM and Boehm for my VM.
> Cygwin
Get that Linux feeling - on Windows
user1804599
I hope Boost.Context or Boost.Coroutine can give me pointers to the the begin and end of the call stacks, though.
10:07
get the feeling of nothing working, ugh
user1804599
Otherwise I might need a custom stack allocator.
user1804599
> We want to program only using functions.
> programming feature
no kidding
user1804599
Vague statement of the year award.
10:11
@рытфолд They can. But of course they won't (you can abuse the implementation details)
McMonads
user1804599
@sehe Well stack allocator takes length.
@AlexM. It was always gonna be you to spot this pun
ConcRT -> CockRT
user1804599
So if I can get the begin I can compute the end.
user1804599
10:11
Using +.
@рытфолд lots of things take length.
@рытфолд can operator+.() be overloaded?
user1804599
Ah, nice.
user1804599
stack_context::sp and stack_context::size!
@BartekBanachewicz So tempted to say "yes, that Linux feeling" :p
sometimes, truth will just have to yield for snark
works plenty for me. Of course, don't use it to develop end user s/w
Use it to claw back a bit of control from wishy-washy OS
user1804599
10:13
Then it's just GC_add_roots(ctx.sp, static_cast<char*>(ctx.sp) + ctx.size);!
You're implementing a gc, actor based language in C++ on top of Boost Coroutine now
Well, you could say you have years of experience implementing GC
user1804599
@sehe No.
Good
user1804599
I'm neither implementing a GC nor an actor-based language.
user1804599
I'm using Boehm and implementing a language of which the standard library happens to include CSP functionality.
10:16
@FredOverflow seriously 105 upvotes
Don't forget my favorite reason: to keep Haskell programmers an air of mystery and magic even among adept non-functional-language programmers. — jdlugosz Jan 26 at 12:27
Ankur, that's a different question. Read your own question again? Also, the other question is a duplicate: stackoverflow.com/q/10121560/85371sehe 6 secs ago
Still Doesn't get it.
my problem was solved by recompiling, should I commit seppuku?
No, you should commit push
@рытфолд csp? cps?
user1804599
CSP.
10:20
@sehe commit pull push
user1804599
CPS is horrible.
@Mikhail Oh - you too? The Lounge is losing too many regulars.
@Mikhail take pics
user1804599
CQS is nice, as is CSP.
user1804599
But CQS is most irrelevant.
10:22
> "Monads were added to Haskell to keep noobs like me out"
- Me
Certified Scrum Professional
hmpfh this "monads are hard" thing is really weird
user1804599
@AMostMajestuousCapybara Communicating Sequential Processes, you noob.
@BartekBanachewicz uuuuh i remember you complaining about a year ago about how you didn't understand them at all
@рытфолд no shit
user1804599
The one true way to do threads!
10:24
How do FP languages use mutexes and condition variables? The FP language I used was scheme...
@Mikhail they don't
user1804599
lol mutexes and condition variables
You don't need them
user1804599
Use blocking queues, you noob.
Okay but what if I want to do 2 things at once?
10:25
@Mikhail Scheme being impure, it works out the same.
@Mikhail you can spawn two actions running simultaenously.
user1804599
Or automatic parallelisation if you want parallelisation.
user1804599
Just like in imperative programming.
In a pure computation you won't ever need to synchronize them because there's no shared mutable state
Haskell does it in IO—but what you get is a mutex-protected variable. Not the mutex itself. Rather than condvar and signaling there are other mechanisms, e.g. mailboxes(?).
user1804599
10:26
If threads have to share state, you use queues.
user1804599
They are completely safe and one-way.
> I have weird shared state
there's your problem
user1804599
If you want two-way communication, use two queues.
user1804599
No locks. Fuck locks. Locks must die.
If I have to share state I use STM (transactional memory)
10:29
Oh and TVars are nice, too. (Transactional memory.)
Well it was fun, peace.
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah. Luckily, not mine.
"Yeah my cat, er, must have COME BACK TO LIFE after I buried him. No chance whatsoever that he wasn't dead in the first place and I've just added a horrid few days of BEING BURIED ALIVE to a week in which he was already hit by a car, giving him a broken jaw and a dead eye."
Sometimes the fact that @Luc has me plonked is funny
10:31
@LightnessRacesinOrbit "proving that cats have 9 lives"
no, at most it proves that cats have at least two lives
I think you should use (transactional memory)
What are we talking about? (Transactional memory.)
@AMostMajestuousCapybara (transactional memory)
user1804599
In Clojure you can also use atoms, though. (transactional memory)
user1804599
They're a bit like CAS.
10:33
@рытфолд Yes in nuclear plants they do that too and it's Perfectly Safe™
@AMostMajestuousCapybara Punctuation fail. (Transactional memory)
What the fuck. (transactional memory)
Don't ask me, I didn't start it. (Transactional memory)
Then who did? (Transactional memory.)
Shit, it's snowing again (Transactional memory)
10:39
@AMostMajestuousCapybara kinky
lol youtube
> Immigrant is a person who traveled from Point A to Point B. Traveling is a shocking concept, isn't it?
I immigrated from my desk to the toilet
@AndyProwl Use the Snowman Monad!
@AndyProwl We had an inch or so of snow last night. Not that much but, of course, taxis and trucks have crashed in sundry places round here, making travel even more difficult. (Transactional memory)
Isn't transactional memory still in research phase?
Yes. No. Maybe. (transactional memory)
10:41
> Hoffentlich gibt es kaum Wartezeit mehr: Ich habe das Buch am 21. Januar abgeschickt. Scott
yay Scott!
@FredOverflow dunno what you consider "research phase"
The state of Haskell and Rust :0
It's perfectly stable in Haskell, so I suppose it's in research phase yes.
user1804599
@AMostMajestuousCapybara they are indeed quite safe
user1804599
It's a shame there aren't more of them.
user1804599
10:43
Instead they invest in useless inefficient windmills.
If a windmill explodes OTOH, nothing particularly bad happens
@AMostMajestuousCapybara I'm growing a large variety of plants with nuclei in my backyard, and they've proven quite safe
Sadly I can’t find an online compiler that has stm installed.
@AndyProwl cough. Except millions lost and debris 100s meters spread (this recently happened)
@LucDanton what lib is that
Someone tell @Luc that he can deploy STM on FPComplete
10:45
@BartekBanachewicz You do it
user1804599
It's a shame fusion plants aren't here yet.
@BartekBanachewicz You can't prove that TM terminates in practice under heavy load, can you?
user1804599
Stupid oil companies sabotaging research.
stm is the name. (Software Transactional Memory.)
@sehe I bet explosion of a nuclear plant has more serious consequences
10:45
14 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
Sometimes the fact that @Luc has me plonked is funny
@AndyProwl that's another thing
@BartekBanachewicz even His Lord Racy Highness has unplonked me
@AndyProwl Fortunately, that only happens once every 100,000 years ;)
@sehe By "particularly bad" I meant in comparison
@LucDanton I was hoping for a link. And it to be c++
@AndyProwl Ah.
@sehe I'm too often offtopic for Luc's liking
@sehe haha c++
10:46
@sehe Context man, context!
That's a lot of plinks
anyway it's really p simple
@рытфолд .. but the windmills sound like they should be safe. They are obviously not safe for maintenance workers, especially in bad weather, but splatted workers are publically acceptable in the wind-turbine industry, whereas any problem in the nuclear industry is automatically a disaster.
@FredOverflow :laff:
10:47
@BartekBanachewicz Oh yes because transactional memory is quite on-topic here
@BartekBanachewicz :( I think jalf was working on something related
@LucDanton Thank you kind sir
@sehe he was, yeah.
in haskell it's just atomically $ do your things
do yer thang
p funny
in PHP, 46 mins ago, by PeeHaa
> Anal sex is like spinach - if you're forced to have it as a child you'll never enjoy it as an adult.
That was flagged
do your thong
10:48
> G++ 4.7 now supports STM for C/C++ directly in the compiler
@sehe lol I don't like spinach
and mum forced me to eat it
@sehe Is anal sex a PHP metaphor I'm not getting?
Didn't know that
as a kid
@FredOverflow oh, you're not getting anything :)
(you can use the left-over broccoli)
user1804599
10:49
@sehe lol
@FredOverflow It would be a good thing if you did not get either.
user1804599
flagging a quote
inb4 rightfold tweets that
user1804599
Nope.
10:51
@AndyProwl weird. I know about HTM being supported
is it wrong that when a recruiter drops a message the first thing I check is whether or not they're hot
user1804599
Taipei game show tomorrow.
user1804599
WOOHOOo
because that's the first thing I check for :(
@BartekBanachewicz Here's some more info. Never tried it.
10:51
@AlexM. Sounds like it.
@AndyProwl see, it uses HTM when possible!
that's what the whole Haswell fuss has been about
I don't know much about this stuff to be honest
@AlexM. How do you check that?
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Rejoice! ASCII is now an Internet standard! [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++-faq]
@FredOverflow pics on linkedin
10:53
@FredOverflow with transactional memory
Is that why IBM is considering layoffs?
@AlexM. Are most recruiters female?
@LucDanton lel
@FredOverflow I get something like 8 female recruiters for every male recruiter
I think this extends to other areas too
the first thing I check about a woman is whether or not I think she's hot :\
weird
@AndyProwl the idea is that mutexes are a terrible low-level primitive and what TM gives you is more or less an ability to treat memory as a database that keeps consistency
10:54
@AlexM. It's your genes and hormones, nothing to worry about.
@AlexM. That totally sucks. I do the same.
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah I get the basic idea, but I've never read anything more than the basic idea, nor tried it in practice
user1804599
Let's try IPython.
user1804599
With Julia.
@AndyProwl A simple web server is a perfect project to try it out IMHO.
for each request, you spawn a thread, which does updates as memory transactions
hmmm... if an edit has some good changes, and some bad changes... rollback entire thing and make the changes you liked, or keep all the changes and then make a new edit undoing those you don't like?
10:57
If you want to handle entire 10 users at once, that's a good design, yes
that's not the first thing I do.
It's the first thing that happens #subconscious
@CatPlusPlus Yes because I recommended that as a design of a high-perf prod infrastructure
@Borgleader Yes, but he doesn't have an italian accent.
Web server is a horrible example because there's little to share between threads anyway
Plus the whole spawn a new thread strategy really doesn't work

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