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user1804599
10:00 AM
Ok now my compiler doesn't generate code using the comma operator anymore.
 
user1804599
Fuck the comma operator.
 
@sehe To make an impression.
 
Never mind what kind of it :)
@LucDanton I ranted a little more about killer usages of Opera in case you missed the non-plinks
 
I actually tried some of it, but it doesn’t do anything. Custom settings and/or something that I have to enable perhaps?
 
user1804599
Hmm, actually.
 
I wanna a solar charged electrical car!
 
user1804599
I don't have to write the must-compile-to-statement checking for every expression type explicitly.
 
user1804599
I can just attempt to compile to an expression, and if that throws an exception, compile to a statement.
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
Screw defensive programming.
 
10:05 AM
Oh, and gestures! Tooooo nice for reading boost documentation (and similar) end-to-end
You just wave the mouse and it finds the next page (same as <Space><Space><Space><Space><Space>(goes to next page silently)<Space><Space><Space>). No need to find those pesky "next" link buttons
 
@рытфолд That is a point yes.
 
@LucDanton I had a temporary clipboard fail :|
 
Yeah, gestures was part of what made me come to Opera. I don’t use them as much nowadays, but I suspect I still do a lot of them via muscle memory without realising it.
 
@рытфолд Pro-actively letting it crash is also Defensive Programming. People think too much one-sided
 
@sehe In debug, I think the program should crash on most things. He should go harder than to just check for nullptr, check for size if you always expect at least 1 value, check for zebras if you always expect horses etc.
 
10:09 AM
Yes. Just state your assumptions. Let the program tell you what you forget. Because you will
 
@ÓlafurWaage IMHO moot because of references example
 
When I did ATC programming, we weren't allowed to trust most functions, even internal stuff. In some cases not even stuff within the same class.
 
by his definition, defensive programming is "write code with shitty static guarantees and then desperately try to regain control over it"
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yea the reference comments are fun. He's trying to gloss over those
 
@sehe s/program/compiler/
 
10:11 AM
We very rarely used pointers, so most asserts and checks were for the state of the object, not if it existed or not.
 
@BartekBanachewicz wait what. I haven't looked at the article. But 'shitty static guarantees' sound pretty conflicted from a Haskell fanboi
 
@BartekBanachewicz Ah. You mean s/shitty/missing/
 
Normal behavior in a catch block, that always looks wrong to me :D
 
10:13 AM
@BartekBanachewicz If you don't ever run the program or it never uses external input, BLESS YOU! But - like you mentioned - when Solving Real World Problems, you have such siturations and the compiler cannot possibly check them
 
reduce them to minimum.
 
@рытфолд ew. BURN IT
 
user1804599
No, it's nice.
 
separate the places where the compiler can't check from the places where it can
 
user1804599
Initially I had a function that checked whether it must compile to statements.
 
10:14 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Yes? Obviously. This is one of the effects of stating your assumptions. When this is a habit, you'll move more of them to compile time
 
user1804599
Exceptions are good.
 
I still have to accept exceptions into my heart.
 
@sehe Apparently this isn't obvious to everyone
 
user1804599
Proper lexically scoped variables in JavaScript can be achieved with catch. :)
 
Easy, put a catch-all block in there.
 
10:14 AM
@рытфолд It's indefensible. Because if you don't know before hand, your parser sucks. And if you can't know before hand, your lnaguage specification sucks. Are you inventing the next Perl?
 
user1804599
try {
    throw undefined;
} catch (x) {
    // x is now local to this catch block instead of to this function!
}
 
Pokemon exception handling
 
Xeo
@рытфолд ...
 
@ÓlafurWaage I don't like them that much. Typically Either or Maybe are enough
 
@BartekBanachewicz I don't mind. We can't change others. We can change ourselves.
And then there is a limited circle of influence (except when you have hair like Scott)
 
10:15 AM
lol
 
The only thing I miss is ad-hoc data definitions for Lefts of functions
 
Don't! Unconfuse yourself by looking at the whole of a small program instead. See also Nobody Writes Testcases Anymore and Solve your problem by almost asking a question on Stackoverflow. — sehe 8 secs ago
 
case fn input of
    Right result -> good to go
    Left ErrorA ->
    Left ErrorB ->
    where
        data FnError = ErrorA | ErrorB
        fn :: Input -> Either FnError FnResult
that would be the best way I think
Can't think about any negative implications of that local data definition; I think there was some extension for that, but I don't use it ATM
 
BTW anyone used D here on a medium/large project?
 
user1804599
10:19 AM
lolwhat, MySQL crashed on two totally different unrelated servers at the same time
 
some people probably did.
 
Anyone here I mean
 
Some people do want the D
@ÓlafurWaage some people probably did
 
user1804599
@ÓlafurWaage the only ones I know here who have used D for anything but hello world are me and @FredOverflow.
 
I don't track who they are
 
user1804599
10:20 AM
Wait I think @FredOverflow even never used D, just talked about it.
 
@рытфолд Did you use the built in unit testing or the contracts at all?
 
user1804599
Yeah.
 
Like/Dislike?
 
user1804599
I quite liked it.
 
user1804599
Wish I could name the tests though.
 
10:21 AM
Cool, I've been looking at that feature for a bit and wanting to try it.
 
rightfold likes everything that's (a) shiny/new (b) otherwise hipster (c) Uncle Bob approved
 
@рытфолд ahh that sucks
ty though, bbl
 
user1804599
@sehe Bullshit.
 
I wish I could test the names
 
user1804599
I don't like Java.
 
user1804599
10:22 AM
Nor Ruby.
 
user1804599
Nor JavaScript.
 
user1804599
Nor jQuery.
 
I'll wait
 
user1804599
Pattern matching was surprisingly easy to implement.
 
user1804599
It's just an if–else if–else chain with variable introductions.
 
10:25 AM
hm... how do you plink someone with a name which starts with non-latin letters? like @рытфолд
 
@Abyx exactly like that
 
user1804599
@Abyx Note that it's not useful for you to attempt to plink me, because I don't receive plinks from plonked people.
 
> Put simply, in all but the rarest of occasions, my very first debugging step is to create a new, fresh C++ project, then selectively add minimal bits of functionality until I can reproduce the problem.
I ended up replacing my new, fresh C++ project with Coliru lol
 
D snippet about invariants I found interesting. 'The compiler is free to assume the invariant holds true, regardless of whether code is generated for it or not, and may optimize code accordingly.'
 
@ÓlafurWaage It's easy to go from defensive programming to defensive programmers :)
Also, related: double...
 
user1804599
10:27 AM
@ÓlafurWaage Cool.
 
user1804599
Didn't know about the optimisation rule.
 
I think we got too many "next C++" languages
Rust, Go, D, whatelse
 
I think you're not qualified to make that judgement
 
don't forget E
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Wide :P
 
10:28 AM
Also, I think we can't have enough. As long as they get /used/
 
I don't think they do
but then again, I was talking with a friend a few days ago
 
I'm pretty sure D, Go and Rust fall into the category "have solid backing and commitment"
Unlike (sadly) Boo, and perhaps even F#
F# is close though
 
and we came to a conclusion that if a language is getting used by large community, it's both best and worst news for it
 
Gee. You found out that life is about balancing
 
'the ones everybody complains about and the ones nobody uses'
 
10:31 AM
I dunno if I would call it "balancing"
@ÓlafurWaage We took it further. Actually being used makes it worse.
Real world makes everything worse.
we talked about a perceived "age" of the language, and how i.e. Java appears to be way older than Haskell, because of the cruft that has accumulated in it
 
@BartekBanachewicz I wager the only reason you'd argue about calling it that is cognitive dissonance. Remember we've limited influence
 
wait that's LRiO's blog
 
@BartekBanachewicz And better. If you're not a stuck up philosopher mathematician Haskell fanboi religious zealot ///
@AlexM. I trapped you :)
 
lol
 
@sehe cue your latest java formatting issue
and java date handling
and C++ compatibility with C
 
10:34 AM
...
 
Morning Robot. How's your ear?
 
@sehe But yeah, it has benefits too.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Here's a hint: Real world makes everything real. That's infinitely better for some use cases
 
Yesterday it was almost unnoticeable; a bit louder today.
 
I think I see why you used that word. The sweet spot of having the community assets and support, while still having a language that isn't a total piece of crap
 
10:35 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wait. Does it send messages?
 
TypeForm looks pretty cool
 
it shows me a dog licking my screen
now I know where Puppy is employed
 
oh shit I launched a bomb I made by accident ;o
 
I know how it feels man
 
The server IS SO SLOW NOW
ARGHHH
WHAT HAVE I DONEE
 
10:42 AM
last time I wanted to make some pasta and accidentally made a bomb instead
 
theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/… "Such a slow shift over time would be worth it, Matsakis said, for all the network failures it would prevent."
w....what
 
user1804599
> UMC again didn't reach euthanasia quota
Health insurers demand at least 20%
 
fixed
ugh
batch, thank you B:\ and B: is so much different :(
 
@Riot Cough. It does teach me that. There was nothing in the original post that makes your own answer more applicable. Also, I've just explained at your answer why it's bad for your health. So, tell me again how I should feel happy about the fact that I (considerable) spent time on an old answer, with the upshot that "someone coming here from google in the future" can get mediocre answers because two conflicting answers exist and the correct one didn't even have a single vote? — sehe 49 secs ago
What a jerk move
 
sooooooooooo... no #tryinclude in CPP? not even extensions?
 
10:48 AM
@Gizmo find the switch
 
what should #tryinclude even do?
 
@Gizmo what would it do? There's autotools :)
 
@ÓlafurWaage leap seconds are pretty terrible
 
@sehe #tryinclude <somelibrary.hpp> #if defined AWESOME_LIBRARY_INCLUDED do additional cool stuff #endif
 
that's a weird way to go around missing headers
 
10:51 AM
I think it would be a pain for maintenance and troubleshooting
 
@Gizmo could be pretty cool actually. Yet you're mixing interpreted language paradigms with static languages. Arguably you're "checking" for the wrong symptoms.
A sort of institutionalized "programming by accident" if you will
 
@sehe ugh
 
hehe :)
 
It reminds me of On Error Resume Next
#tryinclude <a.h>
#tryinclude <b.h> // I have no fucking clue what I'm doing
#tryinclude <c.h>
#tryinclude <d.h> // let's hope something will work
 
or you could make some roulette with it :D xD

#tryinclude <a.h>
#ifndef _A_INCLUDED
#create_file_in_random_include_directory("a.h");
#endif
#include <a.h>

xD
 
user1804599
10:55 AM
Is it a good idea to use a byte to represent a set of days of the week?
 
#ifdef USE_LIBRARY_X
#include "<x.h>"
#endif
// ...
#ifdef USE_LIBRARY_X
// Do additional cool stuff
#endif
 
@рытфолд 1 bit too much!
 
user1804599
Like 0b1 is {Monday}, 0b101 is {Monday, Wednesday}, etc.
 
@рытфолд Leave it to the set<T> implementer and just make a set of the enumeration.
 
well that's actually verry efficient
 
user1804599
10:56 AM
I'd use sets but they're not available in this shitty platform.
 
but remember processors operate faster on bytes than bits
 
ah
 
user1804599
I could use seven Booleans but that's difficult to work with.
 
we already have this language.
We affectionately call it PHP
 
user1804599
(It's in an RDBMS.)
 
10:56 AM
well then I would go with that, or maybe address the core problem and implement a set<T>
 
@sehe that's right indeed
 
@рытфолд I think if you become a martyr, you get seven Booleans in heaven
 
@рытфолд no std::bitset ?
 
@рытфолд I think it's fair game
55 secs ago, by рытфолд
(It's in an RDBMS.)
 
user1804599
10:57 AM
I can use BIT(7).
 
noise
 
I use a DB too in my app, if any processing is needed I do it in C++, if it's heavy I thread it? :P
 
user1804599
Threadmill.
2
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz What is wrong?
 
11:02 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah. C|N>K right
 
shrug jeez the person who made this really knows what he/she's doing.... cough cough boost::asio::ip::addres_v4::from_string(IPaddress).to_ulong();
so I updated it and someone reverted the change -.-'
<< 24 | << 16 | << 8 | seems to be an impossible task too
 
Xeo
This should be relevant for the Robot /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
@sehe "C|N>K" ?
 
user1804599
11:08 AM
@Gizmo Eh.
 
indeed
 
user1804599
boost::asio::ip::address_v4::from_string(IPaddress).to_ulong() is way better than cryptic bitshifts and bitwise ORs.
 
agreed
 
user1804599
If you have the integers, you should use a proper constructor instead of from_string though.
 
user1804599
Though having such a list of integers would be silly in the first place.
 
user1804599
11:10 AM
Make an IP UDL.
 
user1804599
lol, |/ 25.0 calculates the square root of 25.
 
also I don't know where the difference is but boost::regex is *always *at least 35 times faster than Visual Studios' std::regex ;o
@рытфолд nice cryptic way to represent 5 xD
 
@Gizmo where
@Gizmo the difference is crappy implementation? What else is new. Debug build?
 
@sehe on the Visual Online project I help with
 
...
 
11:16 AM
@sehe /Ox whole program optimization /MT etc etc.. maximum optimizations
 
@Xeo Why?
@sehe aka C&C.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Command&Conquer? I like that franchise
 
user1804599
@sehe Solution is simple: don't drink disgusting fluids like coffee and tea.
 
You mentioned your output stream factory less than 4 hours ago. You lose
 
@рытфолд you prolly haven't even tried good coffee yet
 
11:20 AM
I prolly haven't
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Can't try that what doesn't exist.
 
user1804599
Well, I had one good coffee once. It was heavily sweetened ice coffee. It tasted a bit like chocolate milk.
 
@рытфолд You must be living in another, narrow and limited reality.
 
11:21 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes You know I'm JK :P
 
JK?!
OMG
Where do we even begin?
Will you be writing any more books?
Can I get your autograph?
Could you donate me two million pounds please?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You need to get your priorities straight.
4
 
11:31 AM
Hi!
 
@piotr-s, no, i haven't. It seems to work. I skimmed through C++ book yesterday, but was unable to find this structure. Could you drop a line about how it works and give any links? — nirname 17 mins ago
:/
 
@Nooble got your Pi?
 
@Nooble That edit , lol
 
@PTwr It comes this night :)
 
Be gentle with it :)
 
11:33 AM
I promise not to fry it.
 
Will you make video documentary?
"Overclocking Pi with MacGyver style cooling system" ?
 
Koalas can't speak.
 
What will you do with it?
 
Weird unvonventional and probably dangerous NoobleCooling
 
But what will you do to make the cooling worth it?
 
11:39 AM
Android 2.3. It runs really slow on stock speeds.
Also some GLES stuff.
 
Stock is 500?
Oh, its 700
Once in the past I had droid 2.x on 600mhz, barely useable
 
@Nooble Yes they can
 
@Nooble why don't you simply get a faster board then?
 
moneys
 
11:47 AM
600,000,000 cpu ticks per second, well, that translates into lots o' cpu instructions! It's really amazing how big those numbers are... and how resource hungry all applications are
 
they are p cheap in general
 
@BartekBanachewicz They're almost always in a distinct price range from the Pi.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Like Robot said, they're almost always in the $50+ range.
 
11:54 AM
What the hell?
 
yep
 
> Are we going to allow a means of communications which it simply isn't possible to read?
Dafuq kind of argument is that?
 
this just in: nation cranks up surveillance after attack
 
Wait. nm
 
it's no more or less dumb than what they NSA and GCHQ are already doing
 
11:56 AM
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes dat url: uk-prime-minister-wants-backdoors-into-messaging-apps-or- hell-ban -them
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well?! Are we?!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol dumbfucks
 
:D
The power of rhetorics
 
I'm just good at that
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol david
 
11:58 AM
Not you.
 
@рытфолд I think there's pretty little to lol about there
> all applications
Nobody ever generalized. At all.
 
back to pigeons I guess
 

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