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11:00 AM
@CatPlusPlus that's how potato is built (except we don't manually spawn a thread for a user, of course)
 
Haskell IO threads are not OS threads :v
 
Doesn't mean you don't need to guarantee consistent updates somehow
 
0
A: Random Boolean Value

AzyCall srand(time(NULL)); just once. Then use a loop like this, you will always get a 0 or 1 this way. include include for (i=0;i<10;i++) { printf("%d\n",rand() % 2); i++; } return 0;

Why does someone write a redundant answer to a 3-year-old question?
 
paycheck's in
time to get my catgirl game
@sehe it's more frustrating that it's a part of my brain that I cannot control :(
 
aargh stop snowing ffs
 
11:05 AM
@AlexM. oh well. Lobotomy or suicide will fix this
 
@BartekBanachewicz Whenever I get such requirements, I queue all requests to ONE data management thread. I can give writes or read priority by using two queues with one semaphore, should I want to. It's slow and always requires context-changes but I can debug it easily and be pretty sure it will work.
 
@AlexM. what's that, and how does that relate to
1 min ago, by Alex M.
@sehe it's more frustrating that it's a part of my brain that I cannot control :(
 
it doesn't relate
Jan 2 at 22:39, by Alex M.
oh my god catgirls http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/333600/ss_8d26d27426fdfe46b252cb21b‌​cdcbde64c44fb3d.jpg?t=1419904830
 
@AlexM. oh but it does
 
Catgirls OK, girl cats, not so much.
 
11:07 AM
> This game has a chest bounciness setting.

What a time to be alive.
> looking for fov slider... found something else
I love this game's reviews
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'd argue that's not web server, it's a game server that happens to use 'web technology'
@MartinJames but your stuff tends to not need to be 'fast', it needs to be correct.
 
Tell that to his disgruntled client
 
@sehe Please, don't mention the client:(
I would hate it if Loungers were taken hostage.
 
I'm not so sure
 
@sehe OK, 'some Loungers' lol
 
11:14 AM
@MartinJames is that the first Lounge injunction?
 
user1804599
IPython is awesome.
 
@thecoshman and the difference is
 
@thecoshman It's just safer for everyone. Next telecon with Germany/Medellin in one hour:(
 
@BartekBanachewicz requirements. For one, serving one host a web page has more or less nothing to do with serving another, but for a game, player information needs to be shared a lot more.
 
the pirate has a point
 
11:17 AM
@sehe nah, I'm just please to see you
 
not the stern
 
@thecoshman so REST servers like the one for our chat isn't a web server
 
user1804599
such notebook
       wow
  many plot
     so BLAS
 
Bartek, he has a point. Grant it and carry on. Just say you wanted to include those
 
@BartekBanachewicz well ain't you clever, you pointed out this shit is not black and white.
 
11:19 AM
> Former Microsoft boss joins Elon Musk and Stephen Hawking in suggesting that the march of AI could be an existential threat to humans theguardian.com/technology/2015/jan/29/…
billy boy is just too old
 
I am not disagreeing per se, especially that I agree there's no well-defined border
so for me every server that sits on the web is a "web server" and fuck every other opinion
 
And no, a 'service' that only responds to http requests to server small packets of data, but not entire web sites/pages is not a 'full web server'. But you are most likely including it as part of a suit of services on a single server that you could call a web server. And lets not even get into physical/virtual crap here.
@BartekBanachewicz ah, now there is a very clear distinction between 'the Internet' and 'the web'.
My main point though was you potato 'game' uses a server side component focused on serving a game not a web site so calling it a web server seems... missleading.
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
lool
 
@thecoshman it servers a game as a web page. And then serves updates.
 
11:24 AM
@BartekBanachewicz welcome to the land of grey :P
IMO the primary function is the game and so I would call it a game server.
the underlying technology is not really relevant.
 
morning
 
hi
 
user1804599
matplotlib ist wunderbar
 
i started fiddling with the php-cpp library and i am wondering if its possible to get php variables from the c++ library
 
user1804599
11:38 AM
From which scope?
 
from the c++ scope
i have the this from the c++ object but i want the php object
or nullptr if it is not found
i mean something like the exec but for variables
like fetch
 
see here's the thing
why would you ever want to do that
 
i am trying to do a debugger like module for php
so you can inspect
 
why do you need C++ for that?
 
11:40 AM
doesn't PhpStorm already have a debugger?
 
yes
 
@markcial yes, I understood that part. My question was why do you need C++ for what you're trying to achieve?
 
with that you mean to bug off anywhere but here?
xD
i want to have a faster module for better stack tracing
i tried serializing files
but some of them are way too huge
serializing objects i mean
 
Seriously try the PHP room. Several of the regulars there are devs in the PHP team itself.
 
11:42 AM
ah ok
thanks anyway
 
no one here is insane enough to use PHP
 
$lol
 
well someone made a library for that
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but this room is active
 
@markcial I can assure you it wasn't anyone from here
 
11:43 AM
hahaha ok
 
I'd rather bang my head against the wall or observe the drying paint than write a C++-PHP bridge
 
i'd rather prefer have many choices as possible
 
as long as not using PHP remains a choice
 
not flaming but as many languages learnt as possible the better
 
@markcial that's true.
 
11:45 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Don't do both - it's very messy.
 
hahaha ok i see
so much love for PHP
 
once you learn both PHP and something else, you know that
a) PHP is FUBAR
b) you can use the other one
 
only because it has a PHP core development with a weird voting system
 
so it's certainly beneficial to know many languages
 
only because PHP is a single threaded based lang
 
11:46 AM
@markcial no, it's because PHP is a broken piece of shit.
 
LOL
 
let's not go with the conclusions too far
 
Oh ffs.
You guys just can't keep it in your pants.
1) you don't have to start bashing PHP every single time it is mentioned.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes WOW REALLY
that CHANGES EVERYTHING
 
I know that might be surprising.
 
11:47 AM
@markcial fyi he's one of those people
 
i do not mind
i know that PHP is broken software
but i have to live with that
 
@markcial thankfully, I don't
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes If it's mentioned often enough, you can consider the bashing a continuation, rather than a start.
 
i am happy for you
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes where's '2)'? :|
 
11:48 AM
^
 
Don't think you can just say 1) and expect no one to notice!
I'm onto you
 
We didn't expect that. Which is why I did it.
:P
 
oh come on
 
My tinnitus is killing me today, so I'm mean.
 
how could oyu
 
11:49 AM
aw
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ow. Got worse again?
 
8 hours ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
KILL ME NOW
 
does it just vary arbitrarily in badness from day to day?
 
does C++ has any REPL tool?
 
It's usually tolerable, with occasional short spikes.
 
11:50 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, FTR
@markcial Cling it was called, IIRC. never used it
 
uhm
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes good to hear.
 
then the learning curve for c++ i suppose might be very high
 
@markcial and you suppose correctly
 
well whatever
 
11:53 AM
@jalf Usually the spikes last minutes, but this one is longer.
 
C++ has a learning polygon
not a learning curve
 
@BartekBanachewicz fucking jesus
@BartekBanachewicz sigh
 
I'd rather the commitee standarized modules and the package manager alright :P
 
std::painting::michelangelo
 
12:07 PM
year 2015: C++ is still using text concatenation to separate code units
 
not really, no
 
I saw some weird shit based on the fact that C++ just concatenates text
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit what does that answer?
 
something like...
int foo [5] = { #include "values.h" };
 
because extern int foo [5]; is too mainstream
 
12:11 PM
if cppstdlib got event handling, then an image/surface lib with opengl support from that ms open project you'd have a pretty decent framework to write complete applications with UI and all that
 
@Pris lol "pretty decent". Compared to what exactly?
 
Using something like SDL or Qt
 
I don't think it'd be better than Qt
not implying that Qt is particularly good.
 
asio would give you networking support and i think there's already a proposal to include it in the standard (or parts of it)
 
Re. the edit: thanks for those clarfications. They help a lot. I'd suggest putting the data in an Interval Container (e.g. icl::interval_map) and optionally allocating that from interprocess::managed_shared_memory/managed_mapped_file so it can be bigger than available RAM (and persisted and shared among processes). This way you could even do the merges in your code (less waiting on sort -g -m! just keep appending to the same interval_map), use a proper date time type etc. — sehe 1 min ago
Sometimes the really badly posed questions turn out to be quite interesting
 
12:12 PM
@Pris With the original asio api?
 
I like how my usual style answer was quite appropriate
 
Qt is too big to be replaced, but I could see a light weight application being made purely with stdlib if they keep going on this 'include everything and the kitchen sink' bent
 
@BartekBanachewicz Some generalizations, but yes. There's a proposal
 
@BartekBanachewicz dunno, see think-async.com
 
yay, installed pygit
@sehe I've never liked that API
it seemed hellishly overcomplicated
 
12:14 PM
I bet you didn't like std::future
@BartekBanachewicz It isn't.
 
i made a simple image util for handling images as a collection of <Pixel>s awhile back. the MSopen code actually seems p ... nasty
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit censored i.imgur.com/qRACbge.png
 
@sehe well it's not like I'm a big fan of any C++ API, yeah
 
@sehe Composable ranges are where I can say "it's not terrible immediately"
stuff like for (auto x : myMap | values | reversed)
 
12:17 PM
They suck. At least, the current Boost implementation
:)
 
that elephant is more civilized than most of the people in my city
god damn
 
@sehe well, I dunno what to say.
 
You could clarify that you were talking about the proposal. Because that would make you elite, and me shut up (because I don't follow the proposals closely enough)
 
@Pris lol yeah
 
@sehe is Boost even trying to keep up with what's going on with C++?
 
12:19 PM
Cough. Why do you pose these loaded rhetoricals
 
C++'s been trying to keep up with what's going on with Boost in recent years
 
/meguesses the polite elephant went on facebook
 
@CatPlusPlus Yep. But it kinda changed lately, no?
 
Yes. It changed. no.
> kinda
weazzzzel
 
One thing that certainly didn't change in boost is that it's a giant unseparable blob
 
12:22 PM
@BartekBanachewicz at least asio is nice in that it allows a separate boost-free build
also i was reading the boost ML recently and they are looking to sponsor releases now... not really sure what that signals
 
What could be useful is something I'd call "Boost Lite". With the necessary functionality, even if somewhat limited, without the 20 year backward compatibility and without cross-dependencies
 
@BartekBanachewicz agreed. I tried to rip out shared_ptr one day because I wanted a non-threadsafe variant and the amount of shit it pulls in is mind numbing... very difficult to work with. I don't think all modules are like that though
 
becuase the immense power of the full boost means nothing if you don't want to use it because of the size/complication
@Pris most of them are
 
@Karsten enable c++11 (or c++0x) if your compiler has it. All compiler since ~2010 should do — sehe 10 secs ago
 
and all the compiler work around are just silly. Like maybe in enterprise I see the worth or supporting ancient versions of MSVC and borland and shit but it just adds so much garbage to the code
 
12:24 PM
IME a singular module pulls 35-50% of the rest of the library
 
@BartekBanachewicz Can you go rant somewhere else? Otherwise we might need to rant about Rust being as mature as Haskell. Or... objectively more viable. :)
 
I've just proposed something constructive, in case you haven't noticed
I'm not really ranting. Making observations, more like.
 
@Pris Just make it yourself. If it's not meant to be threadsafe, it's likely not useful in the first place (it's then just band-aid for sloppy ownership management) but that also makes it... kinda trivial
 
Haven't used boost in the last 7 months or so
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, in case you didn't notice I replied to a specific message
@BartekBanachewicz Yup. I was observing that you were making the same kind of biased observations ...
 
12:26 PM
@sehe biased?
 
7 mins ago, by sehe
Cough. Why do you pose these loaded rhetoricals
 
Well, certainly, describing my own experience is going to be biased.
 
@sehe I wanted the exact same interface... and imo its not totally trivial. There's always gotchas and stuff; whereas if I could have ripped out shared_ptr cleanly, it would likely just be replacing a std::atomic<int> with an int... or something.
 
@BartekBanachewicz How the hell can asking a question about the supposed-hopeless-state-of-affairs be defended as "describing my own experience"? #grandiosity
 
@sehe supposedly last time I've checked a lot of libraries in boost ignored move semantics, for example
that was the kind of changes I was asking about
 
@Pris Well. Granted. I can see a Boost-c14 happening. Soonish.
 
wow boost moved to git
 
Boost Hana is well underway.
@Pris ~2 years
 
hana?
oh
 
Hana is a unification of MPL and Fusion, which is an unification of MPL and Phoenix IIRC
 
12:32 PM
so many cool sounding modules
i want to use them all
 
lel, I'm getting lost in that
 
If boost cuts the support for antiquated compilers then not everything would be connected.
Point in case: BOOST_PP and boost::mpl are pretty much required by everything just to support C++03
 
Do all modules support all the ancient compilers?
I see some of these proposals as clearly stating (C++11 only)
 
@BartekBanachewicz You only see confirmation of what you already think you know
Read my messages 4 and 5 up
 
@sehe yeah, I've noticed that
 
MPL is quite big on its own
 
@Pris Did. Many libraries are moving to c++11 required now though. Spirit X3, Proto-0x (but none of these are mainline yet for the obvious reasons)
 
@sehe are chances of that happening real?
@sehe what are the obvious reasons? (lol)
 
They're as real as there are people that - like most of us (you) - feel it should
@BartekBanachewicz That c++03 is a big feature of Boost
 
12:35 PM
One might argue that Boost dropping C++03 support could be a strong argument for people to migrate to C++11 or C++14 already
 
its happening. by the time i have all grey hair, you'll be able to write a complete gui application with standard library c++ only
 
seriously, C++11 officially appeared 3 years ago
that's more than enough to fix the problematic float casts (p much the only real change I had to make in any code that was moving from 03 to 11)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes. But there would likely be a boost version that kept on receiving support for those left behind
 
@sehe for a while, certainly.
But IMHO even that change of status is meaningful
It speaks to people to realize "we're not on the mainline support anymore"
"we're legacy"
 
@BartekBanachewicz The thing is. Boost is made by developers. Once people get their sandboxes filled with nice c++1y goodies and they get tired of supporting old cruft, they'll simply stop doing that.
And then, it's just supply & demand
 
12:38 PM
eh, the inertia.
But it's going in the right direction, so I should probably stop complaining
 
@BartekBanachewicz its not always about fixing code, upgrading your dev environment is expensive and time consuming
i can imagine a lot of managers not wanting to upgrade because "if it aint broke"
 
@Pris the point is that once you upgrade you can work more efficiently
and more pleasantly, which is also important
 
@BartekBanachewicz Speaking of which, I'm pushing in my company to migrate on C++11 (still C++03 here)
 
We're on MSVC++ technically
 
RIP
 
12:43 PM
lol
 
@BartekBanachewicz c++03.8
 
@sehe not having any problems really
 
Yeah that's the hard part
The delivery builds are made on Nix
 
@Rerito shiny
 
you guys think that MS will abandon MSVC in the near future?
 
12:44 PM
But there are still people compiling on windows
 
I'm praying they integrate at least a nearly full C++11 support
It's 2015 FFS
 
user1804599
How terrible is gnuplot?
 
well they said they intend to support clang in visual studio iirc... and the llvm guys are adding windows support for lldb
 
I was writing quite "dumb" code here at work so far
So not having the funkiest C++14 additions wasn't that painful
Also we have our framework for stuff so I don't have the typical library problems
 
12:46 PM
At least move semantics!
 
I just use whatever the framework provides and carry on
 
I'm programming in C. Please, please let the cartel assassins get me now.
3
 
They aren't here in C++03 :(
 
@Rerito We use mostly reference semantics so it's not that important
 
@MartinJames sounds relaxing tbh
 
12:47 PM
@MartinJames Let's pin it to the starboard so it gains some visibility
 
I like the fact I can refactor the terrible iterator loops at least
 
With the ranged for?
 
auto is probably the feature that's used the most across code
@Rerito that and std combinators if I can
that being said, I'm not even coding right now; working on a python tool
that's hardly programming :D
 
Python is fun
 
I never particularly enjoyed it
but hmpfh, actually I suppose my C++ might get a bit rusty (no pun intended)
let's write a C++ game //cc @AlexM.
 
12:51 PM
what framework would you use to write a c++ game?
 
No framework! All by ourselves
And let's also make a custom OS for our game
 
truly @Rerito is a c++ programmer
 
Why stop there? Build custom hardware.
 
@Pris I don't like any in particular. A simple windowing library will do.
 
You can't make hardware with C++
 
12:53 PM
I could polish my OGLWindow a bit
 
I was saying that because "games" and "OS" are the most common projects that pop in the head of new C++ programmers :p
 
don't feel like starting a new project until I finish my current game
 
I don't think I still qualify as a "new" C++ programmer :)
@AlexM. what are you working on?
 
@BartekBanachewicz You know what I meant!
 
the single-level turn based RPG with trolls
 
12:54 PM
what about the orcs?!
 
Yes orcs rulz
 
Jan 23 at 21:16, by Alex M.
check out my troll pathfinding to me https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17635452/gee2f.gif
well they look like orcs too
I just decided to call them trolls lol
I need to build a GUI to get some combat going
but GUI work is soooo boring
 
Yes! The fun stuff is with AI. Pathfinding and friends
 
not really
not for me at least
I dropped the idea of A* and co. for BFS because I found pathfinding too boring too :A
it works for the tiny grid there anyway
 
At least Dijkstra! :(
 
12:58 PM
and spotting is at low ranges so it takes at most 4 iterations for BFS to find the target
 
How do you handle "thin" objects in the way?
 
I find the most fun programming concepts like interaction with the environment
and coming up with them on my trello board
@Rerito "thin"?
 
Yeah, like imagine a pole bar between you and that troll
(Why not troll strippers?)
 

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