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9:00 PM
With respect to the "Thanks, I solved in this way" addition: How does accepting an answer worksehe 13 secs ago
 
@thecoshman not sure
 
interface isn't a c++ keyword. — πάντα ῥεῖ 2 mins ago
??? What are they asking about?
 
easiest unresolved external ever: turns out I just don't need to call that function anymore and it can be BURNED WITH FIRE.
 
I'd prefer ` // ⚪⚧⚦⚥⚤⚣⚢⚨⚪ ⚪⚧⚦⚥⚤⚣⚢⚨⚪ ⚪⚧⚦⚥⚤⚣⚢⚨⚪`, to be a bit more inclusive — sehe 6 secs ago
 
@sehe Backticks don't seem to work on Mars and Venus.
 
9:03 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ It's an extension. Don't remember specifically, but I think it's even reserved / defined in midl-generated headers
@FredOverflow or alchemy... sad state of affairs
 
@sehe Such kinda extensions are just shit, most of the time I've met such :P
 
"State Of Affairs" would be a fitting name for a Swinger club.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ highly irrelevant in the context of the question :/
Of course I completely agree.
Still you gotta recognize this shit to have a fighting chance
 
119
Q: Leaving intentional bugs in code for testers to find

KrishnabhadraWe don't do this at our firm, but one of my friends says that his project manager asked every dev to add intentional bugs just before the product goes to QA. This is how it works: Just before the product goes to QA, the dev team adds some intentional bugs at random places in the code. They prop...

wow
 
I find that the job of a tester is boring and sucks enough as it is, that stuff above is absolutely insane
I'd rather flip burgers at mcdonalds
 
9:09 PM
> Just before the product goes to QA, the dev team adds some intentional bugs at random places in the code.
Perhaps the testers should respond by inserting random features in the product? — Kyralessa 2 days ago
LMFAO
 
@sehe That kind of extensionss aren't portable, but there are portable idioms to present interfaces well with what's at hand from the current standard. I seriously dislike using extensions.
 
they can't represent all the semantics here, though.
 
I did one week of QA at my first job. It was incredibly boring.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Meh. They exist. It's old stuff. Other people used Corbix with idiosyncratic generated code in headers etc. etc. I just happens. Don't blame people for running into this code. Or, detract from it, once they talk about it
@πάνταῥεῖ Reminds me of stackoverflow.com/q/23661905/85371
 
user1804599
9:11 PM
ARGH
 
user1804599
fucking linker error
 
@StackedCrooked You quite your first job in one week?!
 
@StackedCrooked We do about one day of testing every sprint.
 
I avoided QA-induced overtime today
 
@sehe It was required for developers to spend their first week in QA so they would learn about the products.
 
9:12 PM
@Puppy Outside the test team (members), I suppose
@StackedCrooked Good, I suppose
 
yeah
 
1 week, bit short
 
a few other libs had a higher prio than mine so mine was pushed on to monday
 
we're a small company, only about 15 people or so
 
so I was able to go home
 
9:12 PM
Do all of you have dedicated testers?
 
1 dedicated tester, and all devs/devops pitch in at sprint close.
 
@JohanLarsson yes
 
@sehe I'm not trying to blame anyone. It's just about I'm disgusted, and I don't like compiler extensions done that way.
 
Our current sprint started about two years ago, I believe.
 
I work with him while testing my stuff
as in, constant communication on skype
telling him what has to be done and stuff
 
9:13 PM
@JohanLarsson We do. Also, quite small (about 2 devs (plus external hires some of the time), varying subjects; testers ~2
 
@Puppy ¬_¬ one day of testing?
 
@Puppy Seems reasonable.
 
so the rest of the time you just fire shit out?
 
@thecoshman better than shitting fire out, I suppose :D
 
But I wouldn't like to spend an entire day testing.
 
9:14 PM
@sehe We use customers I think.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ nobody does. However, vendor lock in and technology dreams were kind ubiquitously popular in 1990's
 
well we also have a dedicated tester, automated unit and integration tests with CI, and we also obviously do what we can to test our shit locally before pushing it.
 
@jalf hey, you booked flights yet?
 
@StackedCrooked programmers make for bad testers anyway :P
 
@JohanLarsson Are they dedicated o.O?
@AlexM. At least on the projects they build
 
9:14 PM
besides
 
@sehe at least, yes
 
@Puppy That's always the case
 
@sehe How should i check?
 
@thecoshman What, for that far-future thing? Why would I, we'll probably have flying cars by then :D
 
@JohanLarsson By invoice
 
9:15 PM
the reality is we have a pretty mature codebase in many ways, and a lot of the old stuff just isn't broken.
or alternatively doesn't get used by our customers :P
 
> I'm often asked why the book Refactoring isn't included in my recommended developer reading list. Although I own the book, and I've read it twice, I felt it was too prescriptive-- if you see (x), then you must do (y). Any programmer worth his or her salt should already be refactoring aggressively. It's so essential to the craft that if you have to read a book to understand how it works, you probably shouldn't be a programmer in the first place.
By that logic, programmers shouldn't read any books, I guess?
 
@jalf tickets tend to get more expensive as the travel date nears
 
Ell
@TonyTheLion Don't tempt me :P
 
@Puppy 'mature' aka old and crappy and we try to not change it because we're fucked if we do.
 
@JohanLarsson in soviet sweden, QA pays you!
 
9:15 PM
@sehe Since I've been starting then, I've seriously overcome all of these dreams. I'm a grown-up greybeard now :-D
 
@AlexM. haha
 
Ell
mumbles away
 
@πάνταῥεῖ yup
 
@thecoshman Mature as in, it's core functionality to our application and we've been shipping it for ten years, so if it had any serious existing bugs in it, we'd know by now :P
 
> There's nothing wrong with codifying refactoring guidelines in a book. But the most important guideline is to watch for warning signs in your own code-- so called "code smells". Developing your "code nose" is something that happens early in your programming career, if it's going to happen at all. I combined all the documented code smells I could find into this reference; most of these smells should be familiar to you.
lol code nose
 
9:16 PM
@sehe I know, but usually a month, at most two, in advance is enough to get pretty good prices
 
HEY HEY, a wild Ell appears
 
also
we are throwing out a fair part of our client-side code this year hopefully
 
@Puppy you'd like to think so wouldn't you :P
 
well the thing is
 
@Puppy haha :D
 
9:17 PM
I guess if you're not making updates to it, you're ok
@Puppy lol, think again
 
I've recently come to appreciate that all of our customers heavily prescribe the workflow of the users.
so in reality, it's simply not common for us to give it out to people who randomly do shit and use every feature.
 
@AlexM. We're not gonna pay it anymore /cc @JohanLarsson
(relevant)
 
they pay for a few features, and they prescribe a specific workflow for using it.
 
@Ell tempt you with what?
 
also hey, I just built Wide for the first time in like, six months.
commit message: "IT'S ALIVE"
 
9:19 PM
@Ell ohhh mumble
 
@Puppy what is it they do where you work? What sort of product are they making?
 
I remember trying to write something in wide once
not sure where I tried
(puppy's website?)
 
it's a hospital management application.
 
@Puppy get ready for regressions, bit rot, action at a distance, unsupported libraries, changing OS details etc.
 
patient notes, patient records, ward management, etc.
 
9:19 PM
I tried to get a vector of ints and insert something in it but somehow got templates messed up or sth
 
o.O I thought my job was dull
 
ah I dunno
 
@AlexM. Sith again?
 
it certainly fired me up a bit (probably not for long though) to RDP onto the app server for the live site at a hospital and realize that if I fucked up, there were gonna be a whole bunch of sick people being very angry.
 
@Puppy wait, my first job was like this
 
9:21 PM
lol
 
@πάνταῥεῖ no, karma
 
@TonyTheLion Dealing with medical records ups the ante a bit over regular records though I thnik.
 
> Your Quake Live account "patrunjelu" has become inactive and is due to expire in 14 days.
oh, do I give a shit
nope I don't
 
like it's literally illegal for us to operate on the data on our own servers because it's personal medical data.
 
@Puppy should, really, yes.
 
9:22 PM
so I have to RDP through four indirections before I can run a tool on it to measure it.
 
@Puppy we operate client backups :/ similar deal
 
@sehe Gotta gain more. But I'm on a suitable way for me anyway.
 
@Puppy yea
 
Ell
@TonyTheLion I'm back :3
 
@Ell on phone
 
Ell
9:23 PM
kk coolio
 
you know
 
@πάνταῥεῖ καρμα ῥεῖ
 
the fact that my heating fan blows on my feet is the greatest invention ever
 
I have a heater
it heats a lot
it's just on the other side of the room and doesn't really reach over here
 
Also I went ice skating today so I don't feel that bad /cc @Puppy :)
@Puppy buy yourself an electric one. It costs nothing, and small local heat is better than big 3 metres away
 
9:25 PM
socks are even cheaper :D
 
ah well I have less than nothing money, more or less
@thecoshman I'm fully dressed. It's the middle of winter; a few socks ain't gonna cut it.
 
@Puppy wait wut
you work in england
 
yeah
 
even shitty job there is better than a lot of jobs in Poland
like you prolly earn twice as much as me if you calculate currencies
 
but I also spent five years prior to that with basically zero income.
 
9:25 PM
@BartekBanachewicz shit costs more too
 
@thecoshman clothes are cheaper
 
university and sickness
so I accrued some debts in that time.
 
@Puppy oh.
okay. Nevermind
 
I've been earning some _Karma_ recently. Not I have found an answer for my problem yet.
http://answers.netio-products.com/de/questions/
 
reality is
I put away about 25% of my salary per month
 
9:27 PM
you earn about 40 right?
 
but pretty much all of it goes towards paying back my parents for the furniture I needed to buy to move in to this place to start working
huh?
you mean £40,000 per year?
 
@Puppy yeah
 
no.
I earn half that.
 
@Puppy you're showing great amounts of self control
 
@Puppy what. Net, gross...?
 
9:27 PM
@AlexM. I don't drink or smoke. That's pretty much it.
 
I saved a total of $120 these last 7 months
 
@sehe gross.
 
That is gross
 
@Puppy wut. I earn, in GBP... around 17k
 
this year I will get all the tax back later.
 
9:28 PM
Maybe I forget how young you are
 
because I started work half way through the year so my total taxable annual income is barely above the tax threshold.
 
Oh. And lemme check currency rates
 
@sehe Also that I disagreed with my degree and spent three and a half years doing nothing but complaining about my stomach.
 
I don't know if I pay taxes
something tells me that I do
but I don't know how
 
what country?
 
9:29 PM
but considering that my new flat will cost me total 100GBP/mo
(split in half because that's me and Natalia)
 
@BartekBanachewicz I have to pay 600GBP/mo to live in walking distance of work.
 
I think taxes are autodeducted from my salary
 
@Puppy I disagreed with degreeing myself
 
and it's not a great place.
 
I mean I can't pay taxes myself if I don't pay them
 
9:30 PM
@Puppy yeah, that's England in a nutshell
we pay around 240 GBP for a 33msq room right now (again split in 2)
 
so you probably earn more takehome money than I do.
 
@Puppy oh we spend a bit more, and my travel times have been up to 4hrs a day :S
 
@sehe Seems to be that the younger you are, the bigger a problem it is.
 
So it's all still balances
 
@Puppy " I don't drink or smoke." That doesn't proove for quality output though. I'm doing both a lot. Don't claim for quality output anyway :P ...
 
9:31 PM
I also still give mum the rent money :P
 
@Puppy similar amount. If we deduct food too it will prolly lean on my side indeed
 
@πάνταῥεῖ It certainly helps with the budget though.
 
can't be bothered to turn them into euros and get them to the landlord
 
@Puppy That makes a bit of sense. Though obviously when I stopped studies, I did be young
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm not sure that 3kgbp extra per year takes out 500gbp/mo less on rent.
 
9:31 PM
and whatever savings I have, are with mum
so that it's harder for me to access them
 
in fact it seems clear to me that 500gbp/mo saving on rent would be 6kgbp/year.
 
otherwise I'd just use my economy account to buy games
 
ah well
 
@Puppy oh welp maybe I calculated something wrongly
but then again, remember that my salary in Poland is actually quite big
I think UK has the highest pay rates around
 
@Puppy Good point. It's costly to have a good single malt and good grass at hand everytime. Most of this I get paid by giving quality output constantly (which quite depends).
 
9:33 PM
my total tax rebate right now is about 1100gbp
 
ah well don't get me started on taxes
 
well they don't bother me that much cause I'm just getting them back next financial year :P
 
I'm going to work on B2B contract right now which depending on my spendings will bring me even closer to you
also heck, I'm getting a raise next year. Or at least asking for one :D
and I'm pretty sure I'll get it
 
Tryin' to remember. Calculations tell me I earned around 17k max when I started out. But that was >>17yrs back and still in the Dutch ƒl era
 
@BartekBanachewicz Senior devs in the UK can triple my pay or so.
 
9:35 PM
wtf I'm supposed to open up a bakery and run it in this game but my little sister comes up and buys all the products on my first day and then just casually donates a new furnished room
what's up with main characters in VNs being pussies all the time
 
@Puppy Yeah. And considering I've over 3 years of experience, I can expect I'll become a senior in my company in ~2 years
 
user1804599
AWWWW YEAH
 
It complies
 
London is attractive because of Haskell jobs mostly :D
 
you know what really surprised me about working?
I actually kinda like it.
 
9:36 PM
@Puppy :)
 
> Sense. Meaning. Purpose. Distraction.
 
the worst thing about working is having to get up in the morning and walk to work during a typhoon
 
All that jazz
 
@Puppy That's great. I wish you all the best.
 
me too
 
9:37 PM
that doesn't mean I won't call you an ignoramus, of course
 
but we all know that my real purpose in life is Wide.
 
anyway, BBL.
 
who wants to bet that I'll have 0 tests pass when I run it right now?
 
no one. the bet is rigged
 
or any takers on "Won't execute even a single test"?
 
9:38 PM
You being lazy, that might happen :)
 
well it does appear that my parser is broken and won't form valid ASTs.
but it did at least try.
so it did in fact at least attempt to execute every test.
ooooh one of them crashed.
 
@Puppy did you have a test that covers this? That might have failed for you then
 
@Puppy spoiler: that doesn't last ¬_¬
 
@sehe All of them.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Rosenheim is attractive, because of the serious C++ Jobs available, all of that glorious beer available, and the allover awesome nature environment to experience here. London just sucks (Besides of a holiday trip) :P ...
 
9:40 PM
does anybody here have any experience preserving opened bottles of beer?
I have some beer that I want to consume but can't consume the whole bottle at one time because guts.
 
@Puppy I doubt you'll get better than "drink it"
 
can't
 
@Puppy Put a seal on it, and store it in the fridge.
 
I don't think there is much you can do really
o_0 chat extension has run away from me
why.. why do this to me?
/lies
 
ahhh
I put in a unique_ptr<T> and tried to boost::get back out a T.
 
9:44 PM
What Coshy says. Get it down.
 
4 mins ago, by Puppy
can't
 
ergh, do I have to go track down an update for this shit?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I don't think so actually. I suspect it's higher here
 
WTFGTFOBOOST
I just put a unique_ptr in there.
literally just did it.
oh wait, maybe you want the base type.
boy boost::variant is always so fiddly.
 
9:54 PM
With a few routines and patterns, it's ok for me. Key is, to make the visitor functors that accept the variant(s) themselves, for me anyhow
struct Foo : static_visitor<T> { template <typename... Ts> T operator()(boost::variant<Ts...>& v) const { return apply_visitor(*this, v); /*overloads*/ }
 
@Puppy base type of unique_ptr?
 
@StackedCrooked No, the type it points to.
I had unique_ptr<Base> in the variant and tried to get it out as unique_ptr<Derived> (the variant used to store Base, Derived and they were not inheritance related)
which obviously would never work.
but boost::get couldn't possibly tell you about that before runtime could it.
 
@sehe I've written myself a thingie that kinda allows me to "pattern" match (or rather, type match) on the actual type. Also I can write it inline by passing lambdas and type ids, which is nice.
 
I've posted that more than once on SO (eg.‌​)
 
@Puppy boost::get<unique_ptr<Derived>> finds unique_ptr<Base>, performs a downcast, and returns it?
 
9:59 PM
@StackedCrooked No, no it does not.
 
But there was nothing to downcast (no inheritance relation)
 

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