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18:00
sorry, last quote:
in Java, 1 min ago, by fge
null is something you have to deal with; if you can't deal with it and only keep complaining about its presence in this or that language then you lack discipline as a programmer in general and shouldn't do development
rofl epic fail
> It is. It is. It is. [CODE DEMO](http://about:blank "btw this doesn't link anywhere"). See, it is. Bye.
man, fuck this guy
oh boy
@AndyProwl next time you're around, ping me & I'll kick you so that you can see the UI there. It literally consists of a polite invitation to read the room's rules.
The feature exists because of the needs of rooms like this one. If y'all are too scared to use it, then there's really no hope.
Also, FFS put something useful in your topic description for once.
2
a link to a pizza recipe!
18:07
or belgian waffles
@Shog9 The only description necessary is already there in the room's name.
@Shog9 Can you kick me for 1 minute?
Oh... Shoggy's back. Merry Christmas and a Happy 20ms.
Happy 20 milliseconds? wut?
@Jefffrey sure. Grab a screenshot for posterity
18:12
@Borgleader That's as much as I can commit too, without a stored procedure.
nice
@Shog9 I did
hey Shoggy
had a nice Christmas?
18:16
It's a Shoggy dog story.
@Shog9 Maybe it would be good to have the message appearing on that page to be configurable to something else than the room description? The Lounge could have it fixed to point to The Rules, for example.
or just put a link to the rules after whatever cheery topical message you're going with
@LightnessRacesinOrbit so far, so good.
Why won't the following work int myArray[myArraySize] if I declare myArraySize like such: const int myArraySize = 10;
myArraySize is a constant? declared at compile time?
I always suggest moving to Java Sucks. That way discussion would always be on topic.
@Shog9 still going huh
18:22
@DonLarynx no
@Griwes I think the whole point is that the description is the appropriate place for a link to the rules
@DonLarynx It will
Oh it did work, strange. Thanks
@Shog9 ...or just make the message configurable...
@DonLarynx Well, it depends somewhat on whether the declaration and definition of myArraySize are both visible where myArray is declared
@Griwes It is. The description field is the configurable message.
@DonLarynx Hmm?
18:24
Eh, silly LRiO.
> [C++11: 8.3.4/1]: If the constant-expression (5.19) is present, it shall be an integral constant expression and its value shall be greater than zero. The constant expression specifies the bound of (number of elements in) the array.
@Borgleader for some reason it gave me the error before I asked the question, its as if stroustrup wanted me to get scolded.
Wouldn't it need to be constexpr?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit The description is for general use. The "after kick" message should be craftable to fit exactly that one, single purpose.
5.19 tells you what can be a constant expression. The rules are lengthy.
@Griwes Why?
18:26
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Because... one is general use and the other one isn't? Duh.
I feel like I am repeating myself over and over.
@Griwes Seriously, we should just put the link in the description. Problem is that we have a tradition to keep up, so we won't.
among other things, a name cannot be used as a constant expression if:
The description should... describe a room. The room rules are part of the room description.
Maybe we should. Maybe not. That's beside the point. The "after kick" message should be configurable to show only the rules link, without any noise like the constantly changing description.
> [C++11: 5.19/2]: [..] an lvalue-to-rvalue conversion (4.1) unless it is applied to — a glvalue of integral or enumeration type that refers to a non-volatile const object with a preceding initialization, initialized with a constant expression [..]
There's your megastrippeddown standardese for the @Don case
18:28
You want to keep traditions going? Then you can't have the configurable message.
@Shog9 OK
Yeah, right. I forgot there are some people who think that scheme makes sense. Carry on, then vOv
@Griwes The description should not have any noise in the first place. You are identifying the wrong problem.
the room is just fine the way it is guys
No, I'm not, but whatever vOv
18:29
lovely place, this
It's like complaining that a system takes the value of a "your website URL" field and dumbly linkifies it, just because some idiots keep writing "i dont have a website lol" and it turns into "<a href='http://i dont have a website lol'>i dont have a website lol</a>"
the real fix is to tell people to stop doing that
yeah, whatever
not like I care much
no of course not
(Even less about LRiO's specific point of view vOv)
^ this is griwes when he feels defeated
18:30
charming
lol yeah
@Jefffrey No, this is Griwes when he doesn't give a fuck.
@Jefffrey lol
I gave a random remark about a feature that could get useful one day.
you don't give a fuck so much, that you resorted to specifically insulting me!
18:31
> In Lounge<C++>, the topic is this: Merry Belgium!
"whatever" or "not that I care much" are typical signs of people that have lost a discussion and they know it
Please don't go off-topic
whatever Jefffrey
it's a typical retreat sign
@AndyProwl guessing Jeffrey's screenshot'll suffice for now
18:31
Then LRiO started a crusade for a "proper" (for a weird definition of proper) usage of room description.
Whatever.
I still think kindly telling people not to expect an answer is enough
@LightnessRacesinOrbit not that I care much
I agree
Rather than repeatedly being arseholes to them and trolling the shit out of them for no reason :(
trolling is deserved for Meta dontchaknow
18:33
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yeah, right, because saying that I care about your opinion less than I care about some other, unspecified opinions insults you!
If I pass a linked list as myfunc(mylist l) the memory copy isn't done on the all list ?
@p1rox Depends. What is mylist? Usually one would expect a deep copy there, yes. But if mylist is weirdly implemented then that may not occur.
Let's see how this goes.
no.
@Puppy Seriously. Answering every single question with "no" is getting somewhat tedious.
3
Xeo
Xeo
18:33
@Shog9 We had that at one point, I think
@p1rox if you pass std::list by value, yes it will do a deep copy (same for all containers)
@LightnessRacesinOrbit no
@Xeo We dropped it because it had no observable effect.
@Xeo You should consider it at least. Probably more attention-grabbing than the pinned message.
Xeo
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Same goes for you trying to whiteknight every questiondumper in here. :)
4
@Borgleader Depends on what you mean by "deep copy".
Especially considered the kick featured message.
@Shog9 That's just there so that we can blame people instead of because it's actually effective.
@Xeo This must be the only chatroom in the world where someone can actually be berated for being friendly and helpful to newbies.
18:35
@Xeo as long as they don't dump fetch quests
@p1rox mylist is nowhere to be seen in that code mate
@FredOverflow o.o what definition do you have of deep copy that would make my statement untrue?
@Borgleader If you have a std::list<X*>, then only the pointers will get copied, not the Xs.
@p1rox No, it won't do a deep copy.
@FredOverflow Pfft.
18:36
@Puppy well, whatever. You have both a prominent place to display things you want read, and a tool to all-but-force folks to read them; if you don't want to use those, that's your call... but just don't forget they exist.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you mean aside from the nextelement pointer :P
sorry myfunc(list l)
@Borgleader Huh?
@p1rox Well, you are using antiquated C constructs and your list is actually just a pointer, rather than encapsulating an entire list. So, no, your elements won't be copied.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit the struct has a pointer to another instance of that struct, its a single linked list.
I'm here darling.
18:37
@Jefffrey just the first element ?
@Borgleader He is being dense about list not being mylist.
ok
Why are you writing your own list? Just use std::vector.
@p1rox Just the pointer to the first element I presume.
Depends on how you initialize the pointer.
@Shog9 Ah well, it's not really me anymore. I agree with you in principle that we certainly could operate that function a lot more often, but I'm not sure if kicking every questiondumper would go over well in general.
18:39
@Puppy It kicks for only 1 minute the first time IIRC.
user1804599
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Stop farting.
user1804599
JavaScript y u no coroutines.
rightfold y u no no javascript
@Jefffrey Well I'm all for changing the topic to the rules and then kicking them all.
that sounds like a perfectly acceptable solution to me.
I'm simply not in a position to implement it.
@Ben - "Both the cap and baseball were invented in the U.S." - Wikipedia begs to differChrisF 3 mins ago
hah
18:42
frankly considering how much time we spent bitching about weak moderation powers, now that room owners can kick people, they don't seem to apply it much.
yeah funny how that worked out
are you talking about my position or their lack of use?
Anyway, if you're worried it'd be too much work, then just have a rotating room owner whose duty it is to kick folks who haven't read the rules until he gets tired of it & hands the metaphorical baton to the next RO.
Xeo
Xeo
I think the biggest problem would be people disagreeing when to kick someone
user1804599
18:43
EUREKA
90f is one of those things that can't be represented properly in binary? setting something to 90f sets it to 90.00001
Xeo
Xeo
We should have a clear rule for that
Right, if I time this well, I can watch the first part of Top Gear that I've downloaded... then have ten minutes and lead into the second part live
this imprecision thing that I encountered since yesterday has been fascinating
user1804599
I can implement coroutines using continuations and trampolines.
18:44
@Xeo Indeed some are much more trigger happy than others
@Xeo I'd kick now and ask forgiveness later in most cases. It's only a 1-minute kick. It's way less severe than the chain binning I did without asking and ignoring all disagreement.
user1804599
We should have a bot that is room owner and can kick people and accepts commands from everyone.
Xeo
Xeo
or not
definitely not.
user1804599
I am a genious.
user1804599
18:46
It was all so easy.
user1804599
Can't wait till ECMAScript 6 is there. No more need for trampolines.
@rightføld we already do
I'm having trouble freeing memory with my program. I create some really big polynomials with linked lists. But in my task manager when the program starts it used ~20Mo of memory. I create my big polynomials at this moment the program use 150Mo of memory. Now when I delete them I'm still using 150Mo of memory. Code : pastebin.com/LfbzABJS
user1804599
That's because you don't use RAII.
19:03
@p1rox don't use lists unless you have an absolute reason to use them, they allocate far more than you need them to and slow your application down because you lose locality of reference
user1804599
Exactly.
user1804599
The very basics of C++, and explained in any decent beginners C++ book.
I must use list, it's my homework :s
in Java, 1 min ago, by Unihedro
THEN YOURE BREAKING ENCAPSULATION
I have no choice
19:07
he wasn't talking to you I think
user1804599
@p1rox Then use std::list.
@Jefffrey DONT LAKE YOUR ENCAPSUBRATION
2
A: How to deallocate memory from a dynamic array ? C++

Matthieu M.In its barebone implementation, new and delete are just sugar over malloc and free (from the C library), so we will reason about those instead. Operating Systems usually provide primitives to (de)allocate memory, however those primitives: are not as fine-grained as malloc and free: they work b...

@AndyProwl lol
I have:
139
A: Why use getters and setters?

R. Martinho FernandesA public field is not worse than a getter/setter pair that does nothing except returning the field and assigning to it. First, it's clear that (in most languages) there is no functional difference. Any difference must be in other factors, like maintainability or readability. An oft-mentioned adv...

@p1rox If you have to implement a list, try using unique_ptr for memory management rather than calling new and delete on raw pointers
19:10
ready
I'll be flamed for saying so but I don't agree with the "burn getters and setters" stream
I can't use getters and setters and hence properties because they can't be serialized and unity cannot show them to me
why would I want to change every call site if I decided to add a logging message when setting a value, or to fire an event?
OH NOES WHAT DO
Ok thanks
19:13
> An oft-mentioned advantage of getter/setter pairs, isn't. There's this claim that you can change the implementation and your clients don't have to be recompiled.
Supposedly, setters let you add functionality like validation later on and your clients don't even need to know about it. However, adding validation to a setter is a change to its preconditions, a violation of the previous contract, which was, quite simply, "you can put anything in here, and you can get that same thing later from the getter".
@Jefffrey Validation is something different
You're not changing the contract by adding logging or firing an event
user1804599
Setters are moronic no matter what.
user1804599
lol mutation
@AndyProwl By firing an event you are.
If there's one thing I'd find useful in C++ would be a public get/private set like C# properties.
19:14
Also, shh.
@Jefffrey How so? The client can still pass the same set of inputs and expect the very same output.
I can't consider the possibility of being wrong on that one. I'm trying to win an argument in the Java room.
@Mysticial C# 6 will have public string Name { get; } (readonly)
@AndyProwl events can have side effects
such nice
19:15
OK, maybe post-conditions will change
@AlexM. yeah, just realized
@JohanLarsson What does that do that can't already be done?
Or is it more sugar?
However, I don't see why I should want to go and change all call sites
last question can someone just explain for my culture why my delete function is not working ?
@AndyProwl Because you have to reconsider the contract again anyway.
19:16
Just because I'm firing an event. I may be adding stuff to the contract, but most clients won't mind that
@Jefffrey No, not necessarily. I don't have to reconsider all places where I'm calling add_element() because now add_element() raises an "element added" signal
user1804599
@Jefffrey Unihedron is a fool.
Same for logging
Caching
user1804599
He'd be a perfect Oracle consultant.
@Mysticial Short & sweet for immutable, private set is still mutable.
user3010322
@Borgleader It's C++11 ness is okay. It has char32_t, char16_t, and it seems to have fixed its std::chrono dealings. The stdlib is actually pretty great in VC++: the compiler is, of course, atrociously lacking. Internal Compiler Errors happen all the time, and right now one of my games actually REFUSES to compile because all of the code compiles, but the CODE GENERATION itself C1001's. I have no fucking idea how to fight the code generator, I don't even know where to begin to look.
19:19
@JohanLarsson ah
user3010322
Other than that, it's a little better at handling template code, albeit I had to comment out some encoder/decoder stuff because VC++ started barfing over it.
@rightføld Are you advertising lenses again? ;)
user1804599
No.
Too bad, I like it when you get all enthusiastic about FP stuff.
user1804599
19:22
@FredOverflow Does it... turn you on?
@Jefffrey I get all monadic when rightfold plays with type systems.
@FredOverflow I get all nomadic when rightfold plays with tent systems
I can now spawn things at specific cells and view the results in edit mode
I am developing this game too fast
wtf is happening
@AlexM. learning
I should have made the game as a grid based RPG from the start
I'd have had at least a playable level by now, by far
19:32
Wouldnt you be better off with like uh... RPGMaker at that point?
nope, because it's 3D
so its a voxel based rpg :P
I want to make it work like Legend of Grimrock and the old Might and Magic games
@Borgleader it's this indiedb.com/games/ars-ignis
the premise is the same, but it's grid based now
wasted a year or so and a team of people because we couldn't find a way to properly balance the geometry, physics and overall feeling of the player's movement and camera
in the end I put it on a long pause
even with "AAA quality" FPS camera plugins, it still felt meh
grid based is simple and can be hidden behind a "it's retro!" claim to not make it look like a compromise
grid based is also a good excuse for having mostly or completely flat terrain
and not mess with physics at all
inaccessible cells can be populated with relief forms to reduce the impact of the all-flat terrain
this is genius
Oh, seriously. Look at these poor people fighting pointlessly in the comments. stackoverflow.com/questions/27679840/…
@AlexM. Physics can't be that hard. On collision, negate speed and direction. Hehe.
19:45
@Nooble not if it has negative mass.
(the particle that we are colliding with)
Well, if I'm ever to make a game in pong.
Actually even that won't work.
How did they even determine the angle at which to go at.
@AlexM. Speaking of mods, I'm so sad this Stargate mod never got completed:
So, negate a direction? What kind of physics are we talking about? :P
@E_net4 Oh I don't know the proper term, enlighten me. :P
@Nooble with respect to the horizontal or perpendicular, choose one.
19:50
It's not just a concern for the lack of terms. Collisions can be more complicated than that.
I wonder how hard it would be to make a radial menu that looks good
like the one in ToEE
If we mean colliding with horizontal or vertical planes, then sure, negate one of the components.
that's the most badass menu in RPGs ever
It looks pretty nice, indeed.
it would help me provide a good interface for both mouse and controllers
round things are easily navigated using the analog sticks
@Borgleader mods that completely overhaul a game are too weird for me to play :(
it's like playing a new game which isn't new because it's the original game doing something else
I like mods that improve existing things and fix bugs
or add minor things, like new quests
19:57
Anybody happen to know if there is a way to check your VPN connection history (for example, when you connected, when you disconnected, the duration of your connection)?
I should try the one they made for KotoR2, IIRC they fixed some content that was not released because they didn't have time to finish it for the deadline.
have any you made use of a laser cutting service?

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