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08:20
You are neato.
@AlexM. @SecondRikudo your site is strange
picture I have taken on this weekend's holiday
unsteady newblet hand = sucky panoramic picture
08:48
@BenjaminGruenbaum ?
19 hours ago, by Alex M.
lol http://anime.stackexchange.com/questions/17099/who-is-this-girl-anime-character
I don't see what you mean. Are you saying you don't have a waifu?
You're the weird one.
09:05
Yeah get out of here you normie.
"Of monsters and men" make perls every once in a while
Then fuck you.
@R.MartinhoFernandes so what did you get for being here during christmas day?
@sbi That makes no sense. Please don't use the fact that I don't have kids to justify pointless overreaction of people who think of themselves too high and feel they are entitled to be aggressive at whomever dared to post a link (a link!) here, regardless of the content of that link, just because it took a few vertical lines of their invaluable reading space. Seriously? Especially if I had kids, I'd never want to educate them by giving such an example of pointless aggressiveness.
2
@Jefffrey good state of mind, seriously. Don't waste your time on OPs like that they can be annoying as fuck.
apparently I have a secret hat on this site ...
09:24
@AndyProwl I don't agree with sbi's argument but people dumping questions here can be pretty annoying and it shows they haven't read the rules. If you come to a place seeking free help and don't spend the 3 minutes it takes to click on the etiquette link or lurk a bit I think that's pretty disrespectful to the users of this room too. Downvoting them is not something I'm cool with but it's the quickest way to get them to stop - otherwise users tend to re-dump it again and again in intervals.
Morning.
We will always have question dumps, no matter what we do. Every question dumper is new and doesn't know the punishment the previous dumper had.
Yeah, but once someone has already dumped a question they will not dump it again 20 minutes later.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Maybe it is the quickest way to stop them, but IMO it is not correct
Also, what if those questions were actually interesting?
@BenjaminGruenbaum IME that rarely happens (if at all).
09:27
@Jefffrey because you insult and downvote people who do that - it happens a lot more in other rooms I lurk in.
oh I see we're holding that anual "should we be softer on newbs" debate early
@BenjaminGruenbaum No. No you don't, please. Whenever I kindly told people not to expect an answer, they said "ok, got it".
@AndyProwl I agree - and I think the problem is with who's room owner here vs. who feels they're entitled to be one. A lot of times a RO can alleviate the problem by moving the question and a stern no, or a one minute kick-mute - but doesn't do so because he thinks it's kind of ok. This causes users like Puppy to get annoyed and dv them.
> annual
more like weekly
@thecoshman No it's not that. It's just "don't downvote questions or answers automatically just because they were posted here".
@BenjaminGruenbaum No, what causes Puppy to get annoyed and downvote them is his pointless aggressiveness.
09:29
@AndyProwl you have 10K messages in chat and almost all of them are in the Lounge<C++> room, I have 100K messages in chat distributed over at least 6 rooms (this, JS, PHP, Python, Rebol, C# etc etc).
@AndyProwl Often times questions that are posted here are terrible, horrible questions of kids that can't wait 3 minutes for their "syntax error" on the main site.
We all were like that once.
but you're write, downvoting stuff just because it was dumped here is wrong. Telling them where to shove it is perfectly fine.
I have seen a lot more question dumps in environments other than this one, and people will re-dump if not answered quickly because they don't care.
@BenjaminGruenbaum So what? Does that invalidate my experience that every time I told someone kindly to not expect answer, they just accepted the fact?
@BenjaminGruenbaum might does not make right
09:30
@Jefffrey The question that triggered the downvote I commented on was not terrible, nor was the answer
Asking a programming question in a programmer chat is not a problem.
@AndyProwl it does so by claiming your experience might be limited since I've had plenty of different experience.
It was downvoted just for the mere fact of being posted here
The thing is - you can kick-mute them for one minute and move their message pointing them to the rules - that's not really rude.
People do what they want with the vote they have.
09:31
It's not even kind. Just be kind. Problem solved
@BenjaminGruenbaum it also seems like using the kick feature is frowned on
Downvoting them is silly.
A spammed question is trivially solved by binning. Not a problem.
Asking people to do or do not what you think is right / wrong is wrong and pointless.
@thecoshman by whom? @Shog9 does nothing but encourage people to use it because it's a very short suspension that prompts people to read the rules.
09:32
@BenjaminGruenbaum which is Andy's original point, no?
@thecoshman kind of lost you there?
@Jefffrey There are certain policies on SO. Downvoting for non-technical reasons is not a useful one.
@BenjaminGruenbaum screw him, I mean peple here.
Every post is bad therefore every post can be safely downvoted
09:33
@Jefffrey ... so we should just let anarchy rule?
@Jefffrey Asking is fine. Forcing them is not. I haven't forced anyone, nor do I have the power to do so.
Well, IMO if owners binned and kicked users who did it (kicks are only for a minute) then this wouldn't be an issue, and of course interesting questions are different.
@AndyProwl The only policy I know is that everyone has the right to 1 vote and that vote shall be secret by default. That is so that people can do what they want with their vote without being judged by others.
@thecoshman Hello? Internet is anarchy.
@Jefffrey So, if I went around and downvote all good Q&As and upvote all the shitty Q&As, do you think that would make me a good contributor to SO?
So the puppy downvotes someone for question dumping. That's... uh... one downvote. What's the big deal?
09:34
@AndyProwl That would make you a contributor to SO. Good or bad is subjective.
If the question is good, it'll have plenty of upvotes to offset it.
@Mysticial First, it wasn't Puppy. Second, it's a bad example.
The foundation of SO is that there are more "good" people than "bad" people.
That's the whole point about majority in general.
Or community for that matter.
There are behavioral guidelines promoted by this community
My point is that binning + kicking is often a better solution for someone being a douche on the room like a question dumper.
09:37
So no, it's not about majority. It's about respect.
You think that the voting system of SO is about respect?
@BenjaminGruenbaum A question dumper might have no idea what the etiquette of this particular room is. Just kindly point out not to expect an answer, and it's over. If they react badly, or if the link is a shitty Q&A by a help vampire, then go ahead and punish them - downvote, bin, whatever. But the mere fact of posting a link does not deserve being kicked or binned automatically.
@Jefffrey I think following the guidelines placed by the community itself is about respect towards the community.
I thought it was crystal clear that it's about some kind of majority (positive votes have more value than downvotes).
@AndyProwl it's not punishment to remove them from the room for one minute and to bin their message. It's cleanup.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Asking a question is hardly douche.
09:39
@BenjaminGruenbaum Just kindly point out their mistake. They won't do it again. Longer term cleanup.
@AndyProwl Guidelines are not rules.
> We’re excited to have you here, but we do ask that you follow a few guidelines when participating on our network.
@JohanLarsson not lurking a bit or reading the rules in a community you'd like to participate in isn't particularly respectful since it only takes a minute and you'd like unconditional help.
Yes.
It's not a "rule" only because it cannot be enforced
09:40
It could.
Doesn't mean you shouldn't try to follow it
No, it could not.
@AndyProwl right, if you bin their message, edit over it with a link to the rules and remove them for one minute that seems just fine to me - there is nothing offensive about it and you're not calling them out or anything since it's anonymous.
@Jefffrey oh I see, and putting in place rules and conventions in a relatively closed community is sacrilege.
@AndyProwl wrong.
@AndyProwl Also I don't see anywhere, there, guidelines on how to use votes.
@BenjaminGruenbaum It is rude. Just point it out. Kindly. End of the story
09:42
In fact, the only two times votes are mentioned is when they recommend you to vote down.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Not lurking/reading the rules is no biggie, probably reduces the likelihood that someone will help though. Demanding help in chat happens and is somewhat strange but a very small problem.
@Jefffrey And that's not because a question was linked here
@AndyProwl It doesn't exclude it.
I guess the demanding part can be due to frustration over being stuck with a problem and not really reflect the asker.
@Jefffrey It is not misinformation, so it should not be downvoted. Unless you interpret that rule as "oh, downvote misinformation, but also feel free to downvote it if it's not misinformation", which makes the guideline pointless.
@JohanLarsson I'm afraid empathy may not be an effective leverage here :P
09:46
@AndyProwl "If you see misinformation, vote it down." /= "Only if you see misinformation, vote it down."
@Jefffrey Yeah which is what I meant. By interpreting it that way you make it meaningless.
Interpreting it in what way?
The way you just did
@AndyProwl No and I don't think it should be. I'm not saying chat must be a driveby helpdesk. Just that ignoring a question one is not interested in is so easy.
I gave two interpretations and said that they are different.
So, "that interpretation right there" is p ambiguous to me.
09:47
@JohanLarsson Indeed. Or simply kindly point out not to expect an answer.
2 mins ago, by Andy Prowl
@Jefffrey It is not misinformation, so it should not be downvoted. Unless you interpret that rule as "oh, downvote misinformation, but also feel free to downvote it if it's not misinformation", which makes the guideline pointless.
So, you add a "only" just because you wouldn't like the guideline otherwise?
No. Only because it would make the guideline pointless
The point of that guideline is that you shall be honest. And it lists how you should be honest with misinformation.
I don't see why it's pointless without that "only".
Because it woudl allow you downvoting what is not misinformation
It does.
09:50
@JohanLarsson That's what I do. But if the person starts pinging and spamming us, then I'd take some sort of action.
The point is that you should vote misinformation. Not that you shall downvote only misinformation.
@Jefffrey I don't think so. That would makes the previous encouragement of downvoting misinformation pointless. They could have just written "downvote whatever you want, according to whatever criteria you want"
Which usually starts off with politely asking the person to fuck off. They usually stop at that point. So far, I have yet to wield the kick button.
In fact it's recommended that you downvote answers that are generally not useful.
One could answer about the rightfold's reproductive system and get all informations right, but still not being useful.
@Jefffrey Right. "Posted here" != "Not useful"
09:51
@AndyProwl To me a question that is posted here shows no research effort.
@Mysticial You chat like a pro sir!
Which is one of the reasons I'm "guidelined" to downvote for.
@Jefffrey That's bullshit. Have you seen the Q&A that triggered the discussion?
@AndyProwl It's not about the question, it's about the research effort.
OK, so you haven't seen it
09:52
If you post here you haven't researched this room's rules enough.
Actually the following should be in the guidelines:
If you are new and puppy abuses you. Keep calm, he will help you when he is finished being rude.
Downvoting Q&A on SO based on how much "research" a user did about the rules of this chat is dumb, sorry
It's an interpretation of the "guidelines".
Also, it's not about Puppy guys
In fact, he was not the downvoter
Btw
Dec 23 at 13:50, by Lightness Races in Orbit
Vote on the post, not on the person. This has been repeatedly stated as a site policy.
Someone, by dumping a question here, is being rude. No matter how good the question is. So for me, at least, it starts with a -1. If the question is good I might go to 0 (don't vote at all).
09:55
> this question appears to be off-topic because it was dumped in Lounge<C++>.
<- latest holiday pic ... so you get to see how your grandma aged
@Jefffrey Even if he's being rude, that has nothing to do with the quality of the question, modulo @sehe's point which might have some truth in it. However, in the case of the question which triggered the discussion, it really didn't.
We're not so important to be entitled to downvote answers regardless of their quality, just because we feel like, for whatever reason we made up.
@AndyProwl If the system gave me another way to damage someone I would use that one.
lol
Dec 23 at 13:54, by Andy Prowl
Perhaps SO profiles should have a "I think you suck" button so people could let out their emotions on something else than questions and answers.
@Jefffrey Meh, asking a question in the chat on a QA site is not that rude.
09:59
@AndyProwl There was a related feature-request for that on MSO a long time ago. Lemme see if I can find it.
And I'm saying all of this as an ex question dumper. The only reason I developed any kind of research effort myself is because someone, once, told me "no" instead of just being "nice".
You can do both things
Whenever I did that, no problems occured
Oh wait... That's MSE, most of you can't see that.
10:01
> Page not found
gimme a sec to screenie
@AndyProwl Not without going on and on about why you are not helping me. At least, for me, a no would have been followed by what I always see: "Why don't you help me?" -- "It's a simple question" -- "Come on, please" -- "I'm in a hurry" -- "Are you so dumb you can't answer the question?".
@Jefffrey That usually happens because you're not being kind, and the first message you give matters a lot
@AndyProwl Not sure I love that as it does not feel very constructive. Just a rude-button imo.
I know because in the early days of programming you reach a level of desperation that makes you beg and cry for help every other hour, and you start losing sense of what's dignity.
10:03
@JohanLarsson It was a sarcastic provocation. Of course I'm not really suggesting that
lol
I think if such a feature were to exist, it should be completely orthogonal to rep
Because people would use it for completely non-technical reasons
> +40860
If I traded all my rep to bring down yours, you'd have it back in 5 minutes
so... is it silly to buy a reduced game even though I don't (currently) have a windows machine to play it on?
hmm... I can vote to undelete that...
@thecoshman guess it depends on how much is the game expected to cost at the moment you will have a windows machine to play it on
10:08
@AndyProwl it's 60% off
then go ahead, I'd say
I'm hungry.
I have already spent my pocket money though...
yes, I allocate myself pocket money, get over it!
turns out either xmas is an expensive time of year, or I spent much more then I thought I did.
10:10
A little bit of both.
Oh hello there, olives. Nice to meet you.
yeah, I tried to stick to €100 a month... but even with a bonus for xmas... I've already spent January's.
wait wat
How do you only spend €100 a month?
my point, I don't it seems
this is only treats keep in mind.
€400 would go away only for the house rent.
groceries, house things etc. are separate
so if I buy a game, it's pocket money.
10:13
Oh, so €100 only for alcohol?
oh
right, games
@Jefffrey ... that's a house hold thing...
@Jefffrey o_0 yes...
and other stuff
like paint and brushes, comics, random toy things.
@thecoshman more like a medikit for life
-_- want to close blinds... but cat sat on lap and don't want to move her.
use the force luke
help me luke, you're my only hope
cat moved
10:17
you better change that to "you're" before anyone sees it
oh, you fast
I can see!!!
Ell
Ell
@Jefffrey meh I never dumped questions
HAH!!! shit don't stick to me!
Ell
Ell
I only asked questions if I was really stuck because I was afraid I'd ask a stupid question and be embarrassed about it
@thecoshman gross
I've just ate ~100 grams of olives
10:18
I should do the washing up
I feel sick.
@Jefffrey nice
@Ell You must be one of the smart ones.
Ell
Ell
I was on Dream In Code before stack overflow
haven't had olives in a while, the brand I like isn't stocked any more
10:20
They should keep the core in, so I would just keep biting that instead of eating more olives.
un-cored olives are tastier imo
mine are drowned in brine
so my mouth is all salty
... wait... I could do like that...
should probably finish the basic paint job first
10:35
Is this good for an sdl2 engine: bitbucket.org/kovacsmarcell99/mengine-sdl
Do you guys have the concept of an "aperitif" in your country?
No, we just drink
lol CC licensed code
@Jefffrey Sort of. In places, it's customary to drink a pint of beer before starting on the Scotch.
Ell
Ell
An apertif is an appetizer probably :3
Drink before, during and after food
Why limit yourself
10:48
morning nubberies
Because alcohol sucks?
morning poodle
user1804599
Global namespace: check
Pointers instead of references: check
Lack of initialisation lists: check
Macros instead of constexpr for constants: check
Managers: check
Mixed tabs and spaces: check
user1804599
At this point I stop looking for more epic fails, since I can now already rate the code base as complete and utter shit out of 10.
@CatPlusPlus To be fair, it's a difficult balance. Only so much can be shoved in before it has to come out again. If the food is sufficiently good, or the environment is not conducive to continually throwing up and then starting again, you have to impose limits on yourself.
11:01
"Aperitivo" here is the habit of drinking a wine/wine-like drink ~1.5/2 hours before dinner.
my alcohol curfew - only once a couple of days & only after 9pm
Ell
Ell
We dont call that anything
We just drink when we fancy really
They normally server various aperitizers for free as well. Bread with olives, tuna, various sauces, chips, etc...
Some even just make dinner at aperitivi.
see here for reference
It's the thing I miss the most about not being able to drink.
Welp, time to make pasta.
@rightføld He even has a class called "Global", lol.
user1804599
11:21
scala> book("title")   // Note result type ...
res1: String = Types and Programming Languages

scala> book("id")      // Note result type ...
res2: Int = 262162091
user1804599
dat library
user1804599
@BenjaminGruenbaum see stackoverflow.com/a/8565983/1804599 for applying functions with any arity
#ifndef CPP11_SUPPORT
#define nullptr 0
#endif
Don't do this. Ever.
user1804599
lol
Use an alternative null definition instead.
user1804599
11:32
No, just pick one of C++03 or C++11 or C++14, not all.
(look up "nullptr alternative for C++03")
But IMHO, you shouldn't really do this anyway
> : HF <:< (L => A))
heh
If your user cares that much, he'll either have his own nullptr replacement, or he'll use C++11 for his own good.
@sbi I have, but some of it went over my head. I don't have a lot of experience with concurrency.
@rightføld Never heard of Finagle.
@Mysticial lol that is hilarious
@Mysticial why do you have 40K unchecked rep?
user1804599
11:43
In Perl you can check whether the result of the call to the current function is used or not.
@rightføld that's batshit crazy :D
user1804599
It would be handy in this case:
user1804599
val f = new MultiFunction[Int, String]
f += { x: Int => s"$x" }
f += { x: Int => s"$x$x" }
assert(f(42).sortBy(_.length) == Seq("42", "4242"))
user1804599
No need to construct a Seq if the result isn't used.
11:56
8
Q: (GCC bug?) Implicit conversion to a derived class

Daniel SteckI've encountered a problem with implicit conversion in C++. The following is a minimal example: struct A { virtual void f()=0; // abstract }; struct Ad : A { virtual void f() {} // not abstract }; struct B { operator Ad () const { return Ad(); } }; void test(A const &lhs,A const &rhs) {...

^ This one is interesting. Who is right? The old GCC or the new GCC?
Clang likes the code as well.
12:08
I'm not convinced with this design.
I actually think it's terrible.
It's supposed to be a timeline.
Suggestions?
12:21
Hi
user1804599
Hi
@Jefffrey Looks OK enough.
Does anybody know to to simulate a keypress at hardware level? OS is Raspbian (Debian for ARM processors)
12:25
6
Q: Simulate Key Press at hardware level - Windows

Anti EarthI'm looking for a language or library to allow me to simulate key strokes at the maximum level possible, without physically pressing the key. (My specific measure of the level of the keystroke is whether or not it will produce the same output as a physical Key Press when my computer is already...

@FredOverflow I have linux.
Then I guess you're out of luck.
user1804599
How do you test code that depends on timers?
Mock timers?
user1804599
ScheduledExecutorService doesn't like that.
12:29
wrap it?
set timer to (current time) + 1 min
then wait 1 min
user1804599
That doesn't give me access to its timers.
you didn't say white box testing
if you wrap it you can mock it
mock everything
that seems to be always the answer
12:31
not the most fun code to write but it is the standard way I think
to the point where you are basically only testing mock objects
user1804599
No, you test specific aspects and mock everything else.
Ell
Ell
@miny1997 probably depends on your display server
@miny1997 or perhaps you'd have to do something with en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evdev
another alternative is perhaps to not test the event firing and just test the code that is executed
software applications are like stones, users are like water - only after enough water went around your pebble did it become round
12:33
I don't use a X server
I run emulators directly by the console
Ell
Ell
probably evdev is what you need then
12:56
Someone please kill me next time I go to the Java room and argue about abstractions :/
@rightføld if there is no seam, integration testing is probably the only thing you can do
@BenjaminGruenbaum new UserKiller("Benjamin").killOnEnterRoom("Java");
sorry, not enough factory
user1804599
@thecoshman I never liked that syntax.
add a few singletons, too
user1804599
It reads as creating an instance of type UserKiller("Benjamin").killOnEnterRoom.
12:57
@rightføld which part exactly?
oh I see
@BenjaminGruenbaum you should invite us before going there.
user1804599
I always write it as (new UserKiller("Benjamin")).killOnEnterRoom("Java").
In Java everything is accessed via .
@JohanLarsson They discovered lambdas, it's so cute
Member classes, member functions, member objects, ...
12:58
Now they're trying to do monadic stuff but don't understand monads or how chaining or composing works in functional interfaces.
packages
@BenjaminGruenbaum what?
no one understands monads
They have very strong opinions about it, I just tried to explain how Optional might be a good idea instead of null
@rightføld imo, just as bad. Either a function 'killOnEnter("Benajmin", "Java")' or store it to a variable first, then call the function.
user1804599
@Jefffrey Method references aren't. They use ::.
12:59
Monads are p simple.
user1804599
For god knows what reason.
@BenjaminGruenbaum I know very little java but for some reason I enjoy the bashing of it :)
user1804599
@thecoshman Of course.
@JohanLarsson sounds like a programmer
@rightføld though of course with the function, you have the same debate...
12:59
@BenjaminGruenbaum lol

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