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12:00 PM
WOW! There's a massive outbreak of 'int y=++x + ++x;' today. I wish the prof. who keeps issuing this crap would just stop now:(
6
 
@Mgetz Programming is just typing.
With underscores.
 
@Martin that should be illegal by international law and punished by cutting fingers off
 
@MartinJames He's doing behavioral experiments. He wants to switch research subject and needs data.
 
Jesus.
I can't even make a SSCCE without finding more compiler bugs in the process.
 
12:03 PM
@MartinJames you know shit's bad when when javascript has a good explanation of why not to do it (undefined behavior reasons aside)
 
@Mgetz In any language, I would immediately fire anyone who attempted to insert such garbage into deliverable code.
 
> They are second only to faulty architecture in enabling to viruses and other security menaces.
what
 
' Please help me ! I have experience in C only for 6 months and I have to submit this project to tomorrow!'

My KB is covered with teardrops.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit they don't minimize well, and can cause the javascript version of UB
 
12:08 PM
> Dear tomorrow,
>
> Please find attached my project submission.
>
> Kind regards,
> OP
@Mgetz no, I mean, what sort of fucked up sentence structure is that
and who says "security menaces"
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ask Douglass Crockford
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ...
 
12:13 PM
> IMO I won't blame him for this, The compiler may still be in developing and it is most possible reason that any error description texts haven't been added into since many new C++11 specifications implemented into. There is a higher problems may needs to be concerned, which is there are always a few of code-generating issues being found in each updating circle, and the point is that many new such kind of issues doesn't exist in the last version(and the new issue isn
't caused by the last fixes, generally).
lol, "may still be in developing" says it all.
 
Antichamber in Humble Bundle
 
> We are aware that internal compiler errors arise too often in normal compiler use. However, please note that we've been fixing bugs as best we can given our resources, and you should know, as a developer yourself, that it is simply impossible to make everything work perfectly, especially when new features are involved.
Wow, a serious honest reply.
 
user1804599
Thanks a lot for your input. However I could not compile the following, is it a separate problem? import std.container, std.algorithm; void main() { struct S { string s; } auto myContainer = redBlackTree!( "icmp(a,b)", string)( "aaa", "bbb", "ccc" ); auto myArray = [ S("AaA" ), S("bbb"), S("c") ] ; myContainer.remove(myArray.map!(a => a.s)); } dmd’s output: test2.d(6): Error: function std.container.RedBlackTree!(string, "icmp(a,b)").RedBlackTree.remove (Range r) is not callable using argument types (MapResult!(__lambda2, S[]))unagi 2 mins ago
 
user1804599
Ugh.
 
they should hire me to help out clearly
 
12:15 PM
Now where do I submit new bugs?
GOsh.
 
user1804599
Not even bothering with answering that.
 
How bad can they make the Connect website.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes VS?
 
Where's the "New issue" button.
 
WGP being even more worthless than usual today.
 
@Puppy I don't think Wide is bug-free, is it?
 
told me I had to cancel my jobseeking claim, claim sickness benefit again for seven days, then re-apply for jobseeking.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think whenever someone says that they take it as a challenge and make it worse. Only reasonable explanation.
 
@Puppy wait wut
 
user1804599
It isn’t since it implements Wide.
 
12:16 PM
WGP?
 
@BartekBanachewicz for my surgery recovery period.
 
Yay, found it.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Worthless Government People.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit the jobcentre people.
 
@BartekBanachewicz UK govt madness. It's normal.
 
12:17 PM
> Could you please give us a demo project and a screenshot to demonstrate this issue so that we can conduct further research?
 
And where do I search existing bugs?
 
apparently, when you've just had an operation, the smart move is to force people to come in (never mind that they just had an operation, which you knew about in advance) to tell them to fuck off.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's all that sort of template bullshit that really pisses me off about MS fora
 
so my projector would cost around $250
 
@Puppy Oh pup - forgot to ask - everything go OK?
 
12:17 PM
that's not bad.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yeah, that's why I posted the other reply above. That one was actually typed by a thinking human being.
 
@MartinJames Yeah. I'm riddled with holes and it's annoying, but it doesn't seem that I've caught an infection or anything.
 
I won't get a full HD one but 720p on 160" screen should be fine
 
@Puppy OK!
 
@Puppy seems pretty reasonable? you're getting a week off jobhunting. why are you bitching about it?
@R.MartinhoFernandes it would be nice if they'd stop fucking topposting, too (yes I'm looking at you, ORDER BY Date DESC)
 
12:18 PM
he's not getting a week off
he's supposed to claim he is and still seek for jobs :F
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Prolly because jobhunting is much easier than filling in masses of stupid forms.
 
@BartekBanachewicz what
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Because it's a worthless waste of paperwork to make me switch around to get exactly the same money in the end, and they made me come in right after I had an operation just to tell me that I had to go away again, instead of doing it right when I told them (right at the start) that I had the operation scheduled.
 
well dunno how our poor puppy feels
 
@BartekBanachewicz I really don't think that's true.
 
12:19 PM
but all in all, getting employed is way better income generator than this shitty govt money
 
yeah I know
 
Ha, there's already a "Compiler fails to expand variadic template parameter pack with non-trivial pattern".
I think I'll title mine "Compiler fails to expand variadic template parameter pack with trivial pattern" instead
4
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz It’s funner!
 
@rightfold yeah we know you're a workaholic already
 
@BartekBanachewicz Honestly, most of the bugs that I know about are fixed. I'd stand a much better chance of having it be relatively bug-free if I had more time to actually find bugs that need fixing and have more test cases. Considering the resources involved, I actually don't feel that it's particularly buggy at all.
 
12:21 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
@Puppy aren't you writing the whole fucking parser by hand?
 
I feel like I could make my SSCCE even smaller but it will probably change the bug to a different one again.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes give em both!
 
@BartekBanachewicz Parser? Who gives a shit?
 
Ha, no, that makes it go away.
 
12:22 PM
the parser is trivial.
 
ITT Buggyness is a relative notion
 
@rubenvb I have two queued already, found in the process of SSCCEing.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what's that from?
 
12:23 PM
> Hi Martinho,
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes just curious which version of VC++?
 
How do you post code on Connect?
@Mgetz 2013.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit What about it?
 
the semantic analyzer is five times bigger than the parser.
 
Every time I see this my instinct is "why are they using his last name like a first name?"
Blame chat, and you
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes just copy/paste it into the "steps to reproduce" field?
 
12:24 PM
and a good chunk of the parser is just data declarations like AST declarations anyway.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol
@jalf No special formatting?
 
I don't think so
 
frankly I don't know why people seem so obsessed over parsers.
parsing is both easy and language independent.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes as if
 
Impressive.
 
12:24 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think you're supposed to "attach" it, presumably in a ZIP with project files. Says it all, really.
 
So user friendly
 
@Puppy because a lot of people still write them by hand like animals
 
Of course you can't just attach files either. A small company like Microsoft just doesn't have that kind of technology
 
@sehe Closed as not reproducible?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Why did I bother SSCCEing it, then? I could just send my entire project and have them fix all the bugs, then.
 
12:25 PM
I want to go to a "niet reproduceer baar"
@R.MartinhoFernandes Quite
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I just linked to an SO question, my last one has already been closed with a release scheduled for VS14
 
user1804599
I just found a great answer and I wanted to upvote it. Appears it was my own answer.
4
 
@BartekBanachewicz Writing a parser by hand is nearly as trivial as writing a grammar file to generate it, but the output code quality is acceptable instead of abhorrent.
 
@jalf I suppose the "attachments" tab is without function, then?
 
"Here, this code ICEs like it's on fucking Pluto. Fix it."
 
12:26 PM
@Puppy yup
 
@Puppy right. You must be one of the guys who writes assembly because it's nearly as trivial as writing in high level language and the binary is efficient.
 
@rightfold trwtf is that you reckon it was "great". seems legit
@BartekBanachewicz You've always been fond of slippery slope and strawman arguments but you've, er, outdone yourself this time.
 
Oh, I could make that a Niven reference.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Right, except the difference in level between assembly and C++ is massive, whereas the difference in level between a generated parser and a hand-written one is minimal.
 
apparently "minimal" is also a very subjective word here
 
12:29 PM
I dont think anyone need an error message to understand my question. — user3612009 14 mins ago
 
Kinda hard though.
I can't think of a way to make the reference without actually mentioning the story title.
 
also, like I said, the parser is a trivial part of any language implementation of non-trivial complexity.
 
@Puppy so... not so for c++ :-P
 
I'm not convinced you could say a C++ parser is "trivial".
 
Oh, they're not taking bugs on Update 1 anymore.
 
12:31 PM
well, in general.
a C++ parser certainly is a bit of a special case.
 
So the very first language we can name is a counter-example. I think that busts your "in general" assertion.
 
but then, arguably, it has to do a lot more than just parse the language, it has to resolve all the context-sensitivities.
 
by the way
 
Right, because it is a language of non-trivial complexity.
 
I'm hungry. Bailey has been fed but I have not. I'm off out for shopping an a GayBurger.
 
12:32 PM
most languages do not have context-sensitive grammars.
 
@MartinJames snigger
 
the worst you can find in stuff like C# is the odd contextual keyword.
 
@puppy didn't you think about making an interpreted/quicker to prototype implementation of wide to actually write something in it and verify whether your ideas make sense?
 
i'm gonna drive over to the chip shop and take a longer drive to Burger King as a fallback if it's closed
just so you know
 
@BartekBanachewicz No.
 
12:32 PM
@BartekBanachewicz whether*
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I always thought they were interchangeable here
 
you certainly could interpret Wide if you wanted to, although JITting it is a lot easier
 
@Puppy point being, you could probably be able to write an implementation in a fraction of time spending on making a full-blown C++ implementation
last time I've checked C++ wasn't particularly well suited for writing compilers, but maybe I'm wrong here
 
@BartekBanachewicz Sure, but as we all already know, C++ is pretty much the hardest language around to implement.
you practically have to be dealing in deliberately esoteric languages before you can find something harder.
 
no, I meant, implementing Wide in C++...
 
12:34 PM
oh.
 
-1
A: Why valgrind shows leaks, even when the vector containing dynamically allocated objects is freed?

Yogesh DeviI suppose If we continue to use dynamic allocation we still might be able to put the onus of deleting objects on the vector at the end , by creating a vector of objects One benefit is don't have to remember when to delete ... std::vector<t> *vec = new std::vector<t>; // Vector of objects ...

 
@BartekBanachewicz it's still better than C.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm sure you did.
 
well, I need bindings to LLVM and Clang, and the reality is that the source language is pretty much immaterial.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Unfortunately so do many other wrong people :(
 
12:35 PM
but Wide should be implemented in Wide
 
@Puppy do you really need clang for an interpreted prototype?
 
yes.
 
sometimes I think C++ is deliberately esoteric. like it's the greatest troll evah
4
 
@Abyx Could do on Linux, but I'd rather not have to rebuild LLVM and Clang with MinGW on Windows.
 
12:36 PM
@Puppy what specifically?
 
well, I use Clang to handle a large amount (not all, but a very substantial fraction) of my C++ interoperation and also ABI support.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Getting a Proud Whopper?
 
Wide exceptions are currently implemented as C++ exceptions, which is basically free for me to do and MASSIVELY easier than implementing my own exceptions.
if you interpreted it you could implement them as exceptions in your source language, I guess, but you'd still be stuck with how to implement C++ interop without Clang.
 
ah so wide is basically syntax sugar over C++
 
nah.
 
12:38 PM
@BartekBanachewicz now you've said it... Here it comes
 
@Puppy does it have pattern matching at least? (I think I asked already and forgot)
 
there are just some cases where it's convenient to re-use the C++ implementation of some ABI stuff.
@BartekBanachewicz I have no need or desire for pattern matching.
 
> Please close Visual Studio now to reduce the chance that a computer restart will be required later.
I should file this as a bug too.
 
okey we can end here because my interest in this Narrow thing dropped significantly.
You should slap a giant "it DOES NOT have pattern matching" anti-feature sticker on the website
so people won't have to look for that
 
12:40 PM
it also doesn't have goto.
 
> Insufficient space on drive C:. Clear 5.15 GB.
 
goto is mostly useless so nobody really cares.
 
Update 2 needs that much space?
FFS
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes a rainbow whopper with guys and rings please
 
@BartekBanachewicz s/goto/pattern matching/
 
12:41 PM
I'm getting tired of complaining.
 
starbait evaded
 
@BartekBanachewicz it has... maybe one use case... one
 
C++ is not java, avoid new whenever possible, the language allows you to use types without dynamic allocation. — Mgetz 2 mins ago
oh god the comma abuse THE ABUSE
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'm american, it's July 4th and you expect GRAMMAR!?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's just votebait. You dirty capitalist
 
12:43 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't think so. It just checks for that much space
because MSI
 
@jalf Well, it checks and doesn't let me override its decision.
 
Sure
 
I have "Retry" and "Cancel" as options :(
1.3GB to go.
 
34 secs ago, by jalf
because MSI
 
Disk Cleanup!
Remove shadow copies!
Remove restore points!
Download more RAM and install to a RAMDisk!
 
12:44 PM
actually, that might be unfair. With sufficient effort, I think it is possible to work around most of MSI's brokenness. But the VS team obviously have not put in sufficient effort.
 
Why are you even trying to make this "compiler" work.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes then clean up your temp files
 
No such thing.
 
@Mgetz 4th July*
 
@rubenvb No such thing.
@rubenvb No such thing.
@rubenvb Won't make the C: drive bigger.
 
Ell
12:46 PM
@Puppy will wide have double dispatch? (or virtual dispatch? I forget what it's called)
 
pretty unlikely.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Install to somewhere else! Then duck and hide for the fallout :-P
 
not really feeling a need for such a feature.
 
@rubenvb It's an update.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes then you'll have to make a choice between the update and your porn stash
 
Ell
12:46 PM
Is wide going to follow "If you don't want it you don't pay for it"?
 
Also, I fear that if I uninstall VS there won't be enough space left to reinstall it.
 
actually, on that note, I find it delightfully amusing that today, the anniversary of the day on which you cast off the shackles of sanity and civilised life, is known as "the fourth of July" in the States, a place where people now usually insist on the mangled "November tenth" format.
 
@Puppy lol dat ignorance
 
Well, your C drive is clearly physically too small.
 
probably more closely than C++ does
 
12:47 PM
Either up the partition size or get a bigger drive.
 
@BartekBanachewicz dat subjectivity.
 
It's 100 GB of pure nothing.
 
@Puppy as a side question, do you follow modern language development, like, at all?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit the ironies of the American revolution are many: like the fact that King George fought hard for the colonists against Parliament and we back stabbed him by declaring independence.
 
development done by who targetted at solving what problems?
 
12:48 PM
There's little else installed here other than VS, git, and vim.
And I already deleted my working repository (3GB+ with boost).
 
Now you're just lying.
 
@Puppy research work at general purpose programming languages targetted at solving problems the languages in use nowadays have
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah a SSD
 
I have a 50GB C partition with a ton of crap installed
Did you run Disk Cleanup as admin?
 
12:49 PM
And checked stuff like "Windows Update files"?
 
i've waited too long. chip shop likely closed. sadface.
 
Cause 100GB with only VS, git, and vim is just... a lie.
 
@BartekBanachewicz So hopelessly generic problem statement, carried out by theoretical researchers with no practical experience?
 
@rubenvb heh
 
@rubenvb It's Win8, btw.
Oh well, there's some ASUS bloatware.
 
12:51 PM
@Puppy It's hopelessly generic alright, but your premise about "no practical experience" is very funny, considering you also have no practical experience whatsoever.
 
Still not telling us about your p0rn stash methinks.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Compared to the researchers I've met or seen, I'm practically made out of the stuff.
 
@Puppy you have no commercial experience.
 
lol \Windows => More than half.
Impressive.
 
so, in a way, you're as much a theoretical dweller as those "theoretical researchers" are.
 
12:53 PM
wtf man, Windows should not be more than about 20GB.
 
3 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@rubenvb It's Win8, btw.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you've got some disk cleanup to do still
 
I'll disable hibernation.
 
but then again, to clarify, yes, that was what I was asking about
 
@Mgetz Nope. There's 500MB to get out of that.
 
12:54 PM
@Puppy lolwut
 
And that's temp files, not any system stuff.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you probably have windows update backups you can get rid of using disk cleanup
 
@Mgetz Nope. Did that already.
300 megs worth.
Now. Where do I disable hibernation on Win8
 
what are the 4 files?
hiberfile, pagefile, I guess
 
@Puppy hiberfil.sys and minuscule stuff.
800 megs in ASUS bloatware. That goes first, I guess.
 
12:57 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes command line thingy (already disabled on SSD)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Then to be clear, I don't give a rat's ass what some university professor thinks is the most theoretically complete language design.
 
@Puppy it's more like 30GiB min, and 40 avg
 
@ParkYoung-Bae "already disabled on SSD"
haha?
 
No way Win8 is 65GB.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes By default it is
 
12:57 PM
@ParkYoung-Bae haha?
 
what?
 
The defaults on my machine are different than yours I guess.
 
@Puppy thanks. I wouldn't like to seem like a person who calls others "ignorant" without a reason, but you're thankfully supplying them plentifully.
 
@sehe Well, my Win7 is 21
 
@Puppy just checked on my desktop (8.1 x64) windows folder is only 16gb
 
12:58 PM
@Puppy is it 64Bit?
 
@sehe yes.
 
@Mgetz wow
 
Win8 would be smaller than Win7.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae The Internet also seems to disagree with you.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have windows 7
 
12:59 PM
btw has anyone checked if it's Pro/Ultimate/HomePremium
 
Check inside C:\Windows for size hogs
@BartekBanachewicz That would make at most 5GB difference.
 
maybe it's a language pack thing?
 

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