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12:00 AM
Don't use 3.8 mebby
 
https://twitter.com/meetingcpp/status/646907429951639553
How long 'till the top half disappears? T_T
 
I don't want to use ancient compilers.
 
12:06 AM
@Borgleader A million years. /cc @melak47
 
and libc++?
:p
 
@StackedCrooked with just 10s of analysis: padding?
 
@Borgleader Love those art dumps :D
 
@StackedCrooked I think the struct as a whole has an alignment requirement of 4 due to int32s, but 54 is not a multiple of that
so 2 bytes of padding at the end
 
12:12 AM
yes, yes, and no
The padding is not at the end.
 
I meant at the end of struct Eth_IPv4_TCP
(i dont really care if im wrong about where the padding is, tbh)
 
Two bytes of padding will be inserted before the TCP header.
Because TCP header is 4-byte aligned and it needs an offset divisible by 4.
 
Yes, it is important that each structure starts at --- yes ^
 
A fix would be to add two bytes to the beginning of the combined header. This will shift the headers two bytes and TCP will align perfectly.
 
@StackedCrooked Ah right that makes sense, idk why i thought it would be at the end of the "parent" struct. ah well
 
12:15 AM
@StackedCrooked or use nonportable pragmas
 
No "packing" needed.
 
Because the other thing is not generically applicable.
 
/cc @AnastasiyaAsadullayeva We heard you like packing pragmas...
 
@StackedCrooked Why do you need to add those manually?
 
@StackedCrooked If you have struct Z { X a,b,c; } where X is 3 bytes you're screwed
 
12:16 AM
or explicitly i should ssay
 
@sehe You certainly mean __attributes__(()), not pragmas? hides
 
pragmas. But the attributes wouldn't be more portable anyways, right?
(Is there some goodness in c++17 for that?!)
 
@Borgleader Maybe it's possible some other way. But this was my first idea.
 
__attribute__((packed)) is supported in GCC, Clang and probably ICC.
Do they support the packing pragmas?
 
@StackedCrooked I mean, the padding is there, so why do you wan to "fix it" by adding 2 bytes at the beginning?
(i.e. making the padding explicit)
 
12:18 AM
If you pack the struct the TCP sequence_number field will not be correctly aligned.
 
@StackedCrooked ;_;
 
you want it to stay the same size if pragmas are involved?
 
@Borgleader Suppose you want to fill in the fields and then memcpy to a socket.
 
add a "reserved" field, ???, profit
 
12:19 AM
@Griwes how would you suggest to fix it here?
 
@Griwes I add uint16_t before the ethernet header.
This fixes everything.
 
@sehe Add a "reserved" byte somewhere.
 
Well. Maybe I should overload operator& for the combined header :D
So it returns a pointer to the beginning of the ethernet header :D
 
with fixed-width integers it's pretty easy to do.
 
12:20 AM
@StackedCrooked I dont see a problem if you memcopy the "parent struct" in one go, or you could offsetof each member
 
@StackedCrooked please don't ;_;
addressof is cancer ;_;
 
@ElimGarak what the fuck are those
 
@Griwes i see. So you're just gonna lobby until they change the RFC and then 3 years for all vendors and platforms to implement that
 
Ell
okay I lied when I said I was sleeping :/
 
@Borgleader Baby reapers :D
 
Ell
12:21 AM
I'm reading about boost::spirit
 
@Borgleader The padding is there, but it's in the wrong place. There isn't supposed to be two bytes between the ipv4 and tcp headers.
 
@StackedCrooked trololololol
 
@sehe err
 
@Ell I heard that
 
Why is there no std::ratio<1, 1> ?
 
12:21 AM
@StackedCrooked Oh, you should have said that upfront :P
 
@Borgleader Yeah, tight packing.
 
I meant adding a field in code where it's necessary.
 
@Ell you naughty boy
 
@Griwes But it's impossible in the generic case like my sample shows
 
@sehe I don't understand. Give more details for the example.
 
12:23 AM
Y should be 9 bytes, X is 3. Y should be wire-compatible bit blittable
 
@sehe I see. Well. If it's not possible then it's not. However, I found that network headers seem to be carefully designed for alignment.
 
Okay... pack it and you are go.
 
Gee. Just say "yes" right away next time
 
What is the alignment of X?
Byte-aligned, 3-byte aligned?
Does 3-byte alignment exist..?
 
@ElimGarak Yeah theyre great. I remember one from Mass Effect 3 a few years back. I loved those screenshots
 
Ell
12:25 AM
Hmm. I am wondering why boost::qi uses >> for concat while boost::karma uses <<
it is not immediately obvious to me
 
@Ell karma is for output, qi for input
 
Ell
but still, concat is always to the right
it's not like the order is reversed or anything
 
@Ell So that you'd have to write your own wrapper if you want a parser and a generator that are identical(-ish).
hides
 
LOLWAT Snapchat can "undisappear" expired images. For money :)
@StackedCrooked I picked it for that reason
@Ell it's just a choice
2
A: c++ parser and formatter using a single grammar declaration

riciIt's not clear to me whether this question is looking for an existing product or library (in which case, the question would be out-of-scope for Stack Overflow), or in algorithms for automatically generating a pretty printer from (some formalism for) a grammar. Here, I've tried to provide some poi...

/cc @Ell
 
tl;dr ;p
There was someone giving a talk about doing a parser and a generator with the same grammar at C++Now this year.
 
12:31 AM
Why do let's play youtubers follow me on twitter, ffs.
 
You can. But it makes surprisingly little sense
 
@AlexM. ohmygawd :3 this is purrfect
 
Ell
@sehe I never knew generating pretty printers was so difficult
(I've never tried)
 
(actually not quite perfect, its missing Zoltan)
(sorry for pinging you while youre away)
 
Psst, Borgleader
I need some help thinking about samplers.
 
12:39 AM
Hmm, what about?
 
Well, uh.
In OpenGL there's all... wonky.
I don't know how to exactly think about them.
 
A giant isopod is any of the almost 20 species of large isopods (crustaceans distantly related to the shrimp and crabs, which are decapods) in the genus Bathynomus. They are thought to be abundant in cold, deep waters of the Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Oceans. Bathynomus giganteus, the species upon which the generitype is based, is often considered the largest isopod in the world, though other comparably poorly known species of Bathynomus may reach a similar size (e.g., B. kensleyi). French zoologist Alphonse Milne-Edwards was the first to describe the genus in 1879 after his colleague Alexander...
 
In D3D11, you get X samplers for every Shader Stage.
In OpenGL it's.... not.. quite so clear....?
 
@Borgleader A brand of seasoned tortilla chips
 
@Mysticial Eh... All I could think of:
 
Ell
12:42 AM
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
@Borgleader I wasn't kidding when I mentioned Reapers, they're heavily influenced by isopods. :D
 
IOW, it's a giant roly-poly.
 
Looks delicious
 
Drunk History is p funny
 
@ThePhD I'm guessing theres a limit to them just like in D3D but I cant find what enum it is, although I would assume its at least the minimum number of textures (and thats 16? i think i read somewhere?)
 
Ell
12:46 AM
meh funtoo only has 1.56.0
 
Updating ebuilds involves copying them to a local overlay with a new version in the name
 
@Borgleader When you do texturing, where do you set sampler parameters? On the texture itself or do you use the, uh... Sampler Objects?
 
You can do both
 
OpenGL, giving me way too many options. q-q
 
@ElimGarak o.O The resemblance is uncanny
@ThePhD Thats like complaining there are too many flavors of ice cream
 
12:49 AM
One obvious way is better than several non-obvious ones
 
@Borgleader Chocolate? Vanilla? Rumraisin? Cookie Dough?! Cookies 'n' Cream? Raspberry? Raspberry Mint?!
 
Rolos but cholocate & mint is pretty good too :3
 
@ThePhD Well, samplers are tightly linked with the implementation and the number of textures you can bind to the pipeline (fragment shader, IIRC, but the same as vertex shader in modern days of GPGPU). I believe it is the GL_MAX_TEXTURE_IMAGE_UNITS that gives you the number of bindable textures, with a spec-minimum of 8.
Samplers actually have quite a physical hardware representation and between the different APIs, they can be either logical (allowing going overboard for the sake of code simplicity) or directly map to what the hardware supports.
 
Welp. Guess I'll just use SamplerObjects and hope for the best.
 
Although, I have to ask, why are you writing OGL? In a few months, Vulkan will be a far saner alternative.
 
12:54 AM
Because learning Vulkan is going to take me a long time and there's people I'd like to impress today.
 
Ah...
 
That and I want to close out this engine stuff and start doing the game stuff.
 
As usual, everything that ends formally with "Object" in OpenGL is what you should use.
 
Even VertexArrayObject?
 
Especially VAOs, brah :D
 
12:56 AM
I hate 'em.
The fact that they glue the bound VBO to them is a hassle for my well-separated pipeline.
Thankfully, there's a (50% supported) separating extension I've been using.
But in 3.3 land what I'd do to escape that is just constantly re-binding the vertex buffer after binding the VBO. I keep enough state on my graphics_device to be able to do that.
 
I suppose you're making an engine type thingy, right? Are you taking care of making sure you never see OGL beneath it? Hiding implementation details?
 
Yeah, it's one of those deals.
D3D11 is 100% implemented.
So I was like "Wouldn't this be great if I had this on Linux"
And my nightmares began.
 
:v
 
Does anybody think that static_cast<BaseClass>(myDerived) = myBase; should work?
 
Ell
VAOs are well cool
 
1:00 AM
@Mikhail &
 
My engine primarily supports Direct3D 12 and Direct3D 11, while the interface is consistent, what happens on the dark side of the translation unit is vastly different between the two. OGL and D3D11 pretty much can dance similarly.
 
@ElimGarak I'm trying to build that bridge (D3D11 <---> OGL).
 
build? or burn :p
 
@ThePhD Yeah, I spent the last 10 minutes tracing the bug. I just want to live in a world where this works.
 
@Mikhail It would have dire consequences.
 
1:02 AM
Don't use C++
There, problem solved
 
@ThePhD Might even boost performance!
 
Damn it, Valhalla Hills, displaying videos can be locked to the refresh rate of the display. I don't need 5000 frames each second burning my GPU.
 
How to be 30 mins late to work
@ElimGarak @Xeo can't C++
it is known
 
I need my feeps
 
more feeps more gameplays
 
1:07 AM
God, it hurts my soul to hear the GPU squealing under the pressure. Like a sharp scratching sound.
 
who pronounces it feeps?
@ElimGarak coil whine? :D
 
> Mozilla fixed a 14-year-old bug in Firefox, and now Adblock Plus uses a lot less memory
overdue much?
inb4 pull requests welcome
 
Yes, the average Steam user will understand this :D
 
user406009
What game is that?
 
Xeo's game, Valhalla Hills
 
1:10 AM
Seed input is not a new concept in procgen games
 
Seed is fairly common tbh
 
@ElimGarak FYI, Seed is a euphemism for semen.
 
It's when you ask your player to pick a default alloc mode for node structures that thing may get a tad overboard
 
But it is adorable :D
 
1:11 AM
4/10 not enough DOF
Nice graphics :)
 
@ElimGarak Bjarne :D
he's not sparkly :(
 
Team of how many, @Xeo?
 
Xeo
@ElimGarak psst: options.
@ElimGarak that thing's gonna get overhauled anyways
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva at most 10 people or so, 9 months.
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva spoilers: coming :P
 
Does that make 10 babies
 
user406009
Seems like there are a lot of games in that sort of genre lately.
 
1:13 AM
I love my Bjarne, Xeo. Thanks!
 
user406009
Factorio, etc, etc.
 
Xeo
@ElimGarak It's not C++ Bjarne, though
 
@Xeo p impressive btw, did you start from scratch?
 
Xeo
ye
 
user406009
C#?
 
Xeo
1:14 AM
well, as much from scratch as you can start with Unreal Engine
 
Feedback: Right click movement great, WASD a bit too fast (customizable?)
 
Xeo
options~
but yeah, we're experimenting with WASD. It's kinda iffy with how it's supposed to follow the terrain n stuff
(not that you'd notice much of that with that flat of an island)
 
Hey, I brought Bjarne on that island so he could develop C++ in peace.
 
So 10 people can make a game with UE4 in 9 months
 
user406009
See, maybe Kyrostat has a future! There's more than 10 of us here.
 
Xeo
1:22 AM
*10 willing and motivated people
@Lalaland and suddenly that number drops sharply :P
 
@ElimGarak Would you mind if Kyrostat was a sidescrolling space shooter?
 
@ThePhD I wouldn't mind anything :D
 
Xeo
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva With 4 of those being artists
 
user406009
@ThePhD As long as it has shadows.
 
user406009
1:23 AM
And fancy lighting.
 
Xeo
one for UI, one for modelling, one for animation, and the art lead
 
I suppose the modeling one also does the unwrapping and the rigging for the animator to use?
 
Xeo
ye
 
@Xeo All rest are devs gamedevs?
 
Artists are devs, too :P
 
1:25 AM
Yes and I'm an artist I can use mspaint
 
Xeo
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva pretty much
well, one is more like designer / blueprint "coder"
one is 99% logic code, one is 99% unreal code, and I'm flowing somewhere between those two
 
As opposed to real code
 
Xeo
we got another for.... other things (spoilers)
 
Networking because multiplayer coming soon
There, spoiled it
 
Xeo
nope
no multiplayer planned yet
 
1:27 AM
Nice try
 
Not sure how MP would work, at least for now
 
Xeo
@ElimGarak cooperative is an option
or obstructive, not directly pvp
 
(I'm trying to find what "other things" could be that would require its own dev)
(and networking was the first thing that came to mind)
 
Xeo
or one controls a base atop the mountain, RTS-style direct pvp
many ideas, none tested
 
One of the more polished EA games I've tried. Heh, Electronic Arts.
 
Xeo
1:29 AM
oh yeah, I'm also supposed to be working on the mac port
but with sick leave and all
nothing got done on that this week
it's actually fully functional, except for friggin starting the game from steam
because unreal is being stupid somewhere
 
So, uhm, do reviews help? Or did Steam just devolve into funny/joke reviews?
 
Xeo
@ElimGarak they do help a lot
 
user406009
@Xeo As you are in the industry, do you have an opinion on all the recent articles detailing the "death of indie gaming"? (Stuff like jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2015/09/…)
 
Xeo
@Lalaland No opinion, since I'm not really following such news
also, we're not really an indie studio
 
Make a good game, and people will find it. Xeo's studio did iterations of The Settlers. (Ubisoft / BlueByte initially)
 
Xeo
1:31 AM
@ElimGarak other way around - we with BlueByte initially, and then they took over
 
That's even better! I friggin' loved The Settlers.
 
Xeo
(take a guess when the games apparently took a nosedive in quality. :P)
Cultures is our stuff
 
I wanna go intern at Xeo's place one day. :c
 
omg I wanted to work for BlueByte a couple years ago (big Anno player here)
 
Yes, Anno is fun.
 
Xeo
1:33 AM
they're not a bad studio, but lemme just say they've been trying to make a Settlers Online thingy for what, 5 years now? scrapping 95% of it 2 times or something
 
Ell
Anno 2070 is very pretty
 
@ThePhD All I want is to have a good night's sleep for a few days in a row... it hasnt happened for as long as I can remember T_T
 
The newest one is also very pretty
 
I don't like 2070 :(
 
user406009
My main issue with Anno is that it is exactly the same game. Repackaged.
 
1:34 AM
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva I like the ancient ones, thematically speaking
 
@Borgleader git gud and start sleeping.
 
@Xeo s/Settles/Settlers/ ?
 
@ElimGarak Same
 
Xeo
@Borgleader ye
 
user406009
@Borgleader Step 1. Turning of the computer early in the night.
 
1:34 AM
@ThePhD My body randomly decides to wake up at 2-4 AM every night (sometimes more than onces)
 
I don't know what I want to do
 
rip me
 
@CatPlusPlus have an internet hug <3
 
@CatPlusPlus Make lots of money and then purchase a hooker.
 
user406009
@CatPlusPlus You could write a programming language!
 
Xeo
anyhow, sleep time. past 3:30AM here and I'm snacking on drugs like peanuts to keep my headache in check.
 
user406009
Better than all the "sucky" ones out there!
 
everything sucks in Cat's book. He could strive to create the least suckage.
 
@Lalaland There's little point doing that for the sake of doing that
 
1:36 AM
> Getting output classification with lasagne
stop naming your shitty libs with names that are already taken by other concepts thanks
 
It's years of work
 
Xeo
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva it's the embodiment of lasagna code
 
So what, you lazy fuck :P
 
Ell
@ElimGarak oh boy
I love this
I love this so much
I want my game to look like that <3
 
I wrote a skeleton Lisp interpreter
Almost
 
1:37 AM
@Xeo copy pasta!
 
user406009
@ElimGarak That inefficiency with the markeplace though. Gotta learn to layout correctly.
 
Not sure what to think of Anno 2205
 
> For debugging reasons i count the number that dst = src instruction executes just to be sure that every element of the array is processed just once. However for some reason it executes 100 times.
I found the bug. I was running the kernel 100 times in order to get accurate performance measurements. — Nick 11 hours ago
HAHAHAHAHAHA
@ElimGarak I'm not sold
I really am not into the space conquest theme
 
In the future world, where the only available building material is glass
 
Or chrome.
 
1:40 AM
and there are only 4 building designs available
 
With lowres static environment reflections :D Glass is the worst choice you can make given the inherent problems of rasterization.
 
procgen buildings anyone
 
Billions of galaxies worlds buildings
 
This is pretty fun to look at, cinematically.
Pretty fly for an ancient game, featuring @melak47
 
@ElimGarak i like the visuals and the music, but i don’t think they fit together
 
1:47 AM
maybe it's Bjarne in the year 2375
 
@Darklighter Well, it's a fan video, so seldom it works completely out. :D
 
user406009
@ElimGarak But, there's no reflections off the top of Picard's head?
 
user406009
-1/10
 
@Lalaland John Carmack's tech for you. :D
^ This one fares a lot better, but built around last gen version.
 

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