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5:00 PM
I think customizable operators are enough mess
 
OH: "#ScyllaDB is implemented in really good c++" #ohnoes Making me look huh. #unicornspotting in the wild.
 
making them behave in totally unpredictable way would make things even worse
 
It's bad enough that they're doing one DSL, but doing 3 just to have 3 ways of expressing the same thing
Shitty design
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz customizable as in overloadable?
 
@Ell as in "every mashup of characters is an infix function"
 
5:02 PM
And then you get code written by people in US who naturally prefer the US format and give it to people anywhere else who use normal date formats and confusion
 
"except when it starts with a colon"
 
Perfectly readable
 
"because then it's a magical function"
@CatPlusPlus 'murica
 
@Cat That will result in the correct date anyways. It is just a matter of style. Inconsistent style can be adopted pretty much everywhere. What if the same programmer uses camel case and snak case in the same project?
 
@AndyProwl it's not like this doesn't happen and isn't a problem
 
5:02 PM
Yes, it can
But the solution is not to make more things that can be done inconsistently
 
That being said
 
@Bartek yes, but forcing one style is not the solution
 
Sure it is
 
I find it funny that it's Cat who likes Racket
@AndyProwl uh why not?
 
That's p much the only solution to inconsistency
 
5:03 PM
Is this a bad idea?
 
Have only one way of doing something
 
@Bartek would you force pascal case on all C++ code?
 
For example rust doesn't beat around the bush and tells you to use spaces instead of tabs outright
 
@BartekBanachewicz Why?
 
no fucking discussion
@CatPlusPlus I thought that's one of those "customizable" languages.
@AndyProwl force whatever, it's irrelevant. Just be consistent
 
5:05 PM
@CatPlusPlus I don't see how 1/2/15 is any more (or less) ambiguous than date(1, 2, 15).
 
I'm going to ask Howard what he thinks about this
 
Eh, having the option and abusing the option are two different things
 
Haskell forces case for types and values and it's one less thing to worry about
 
@JerryCoffin Better reference point
 
Long line to get to him
It will take a while
 
5:06 PM
@JerryCoffin Is it 1st February or 2nd January?
 
user3790646
Should I really encapsulate all variables from a specific class?
 
@Andrey do what
 
The best solution is to delete all your code, go home, and weep.
 
I don't this means what you think it means
 
5:07 PM
Who wants to join me in a Rust project
 
user3790646
@TonyTheLion I don't think that would benefit you in any way, so why bother saying this ?
 
Ell
"Not I", said the pig
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm a bit rusty
 
It's gonna be a fun project
 
@BartekBanachewicz what is the project?
 
5:08 PM
@rlemon a database
 
@BartekBanachewicz My tools rust fast enough without a rust projector to help. Thanks anyway.
 
sounds like a blast :P
 
gonna be so fun
 
@Andrey because this is the Lounge and I can say whatever I want.
 
5:08 PM
Why Rust?
 
because I want to try it out and because PURRRFROAMNCE
 
user3790646
Watch out guys, we got a badass right there
 
@TonyTheLion s/weep/drink/ and you have one of my weekly rage-quits
 
I want something that runs in a pooled memory
 
@BartekBanachewicz PUUUUUUUUUUUREBROMANCE.
10
 
5:09 PM
@JerryCoffin hihih
 
@rlemon heheh, I feel you man.
 
although, I have had two successful releases after an abysmal deployment last month
so I'm feeling okay
 
I have Yet Another Deployment Deadline
 
Yadd?
 
5:11 PM
I have a deadline too
 
Sounds like Yidd.
Yiddish?
Yiddish Ska!
 
@TonyTheLion I try to only have livelines.
@ThePhD Skittish, yah?
 
I don't have deadlines either
they suck
 
They're not really deadlines, mostly just madlines. Unless you're an expendable peasant.
 
@ElimGarak Madlines for a library--and that's how we got madlibs.
 
5:13 PM
> Read SQLite code, it's professionally written.
> Repo has files called `mem.c`, `mem2.c`, `mem3.c`, `mem5.c`
everything in the same fucking folder
tests prefixed with "test_"
I forgot "professionally" means something else in the C world
 
my amazon package hasn't been delivered yet and I have to leave soon :(
 
leave where?
 
party
 
char ***pazResult, /* Write the result table here */
 
my eyes
need goggles
 
5:15 PM
@TonyTheLion You can have them deliver it to my address...
 
what's the rationale of allowing tentative definitions in C?
 
guys it's high time we got rid of C
 
@JerryCoffin lol
 
and stopped depending on libraries written in it
 
Good luck with that
 
5:16 PM
@BartekBanachewicz tell that to Linus
 
let's autotranslate everything to Rust
then refactor
 
@BartekBanachewicz that's what everyone says!
 
@TonyTheLion fuck that idiot
@AlexM. "has been saying for years" you mean
 
@BartekBanachewicz That'll be worse than C
 
So, apparently, today a car ran into a horse. One person dead, one injured. Horse unharmed, ran away.
 
5:17 PM
at least a horse was saved
 
@PravasiMeet Pretty much necessity--too much existing code that didn't use extern by the time they were standardizing, so they had to do something to accommodate it.
 
I used a monad <3
 
@AlexM. which one?
 
Maybe
is there such a thing as Expected in Haskell
 
what's that?
 
5:18 PM
Also, three people died today in car crashes, estimated within the same 10 minutes on different geolocations with Croatia. Bodies of the two are still stuck in the car because they can't get them out just yet.
 
e.g. I use maybe for the input operation and in case there's no input to obtain it's normally an error
Maybe is more like optional
Expected would contain either what I need or an error something
 
@AlexM. then you didn't use a monad
@AlexM. that's called Either
 
@BartekBanachewicz OIC
 
the thing is, just saying Just 5 uses Data.Maybe. It doesn't use the Monad instance for it
the fact that something is a Monad doesn't mean you're using it like a monad
 
god damnit ok I didn't use a monad
 
5:20 PM
@JerryCoffin: ok
 
I want a burrito
 
user3790646
@CatPlusPlus I stole 'em all
 
Iterative build -> Cannot find .lib -> Rebuild -> Oh, I can find .lib
 
Incremental builds are brittle as fuck
 
@AlexM. it's an important difference. You shouldn't associate the data type with the particular instance of it. Anyway, show the code? :)
 
5:20 PM
if I fmap something over a maybe does that count as using a monad
 
@AlexM. that counts as using a Functor
 
how do I know I'm using a monad
 
@JerryCoffin: Which are the languages other than C++ that follows you don't need it then you don't pay for philosophy
 
@AlexM. Monad is (>>=) and return
 
Ell
you have to bind and return
 
5:22 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I'm doing the brainfuck thing and it's obv not ready if you want I'll show you the one for the older problem
 
divBy2 :: Int -> Maybe Int
divBy2 x = if x `mod` 2 == 0 then Just (x `div` 2) else Nothing

(Just 16) >>= divBy2 >>= divBy2
@AlexM. ^ Maybe used as a monad
if at any point you encounter Nothing, it will propagate till the end
@AlexM. that's the ASCII code
 
you can't do Nothing :: Maybe Int + 5
why did I expect it to work
fmap-ing on it works
@BartekBanachewicz yes I just started the brainfuck thing
 
@AlexM. oh ok
@AlexM. you can also liftA2 (+)
(but then you need to lift the value of 5 as well)
 
Do you even liftA2
 
user1804599
@sehe MS working on dot tool rise4fun.com/Agl
 
5:27 PM
I can lift a 2
 
So I talked to Howard
3
 
who is staring those things
 
Why the stars
 
The star fairy
 
I miss StarGazer, we cannot starshame now.
 
user406009
5:31 PM
@BartekBanachewicz we would know if the admins allowed stargazer
 
@BartekBanachewicz is there a reason you'd divide a maybe like that
vs fmap?
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl What did that coward say?
 
@AlexM. what do you mean "divide"?
 
He says the arguments are valid but IMO he also gave valid counterarguments - not too different from what I was writing tbh. Anyway y/m is a valid thing, i.e. a data structure for a year and a month, no expression templates, errors are caught at compile time and compiler errors are allegedly understandable. Ranges now
 
5:33 PM
@PravasiMeet C at least pretty much (though it's more a "if it costs, you can't have it whether you want it to not"). Rust seems to be trying to maintain at least a variation of the same general notion (mostly: they don't mind adding things that are expensive, as long as the expense happens at compile time).
 
@BartekBanachewicz nvm your division is not a simple division
 
Ah range keynote is a dupe
I've seen this video already :(
 
it's stupid to reject things just because they're expensive (except Apple products)
if the alternative is also expensive or you have to have it even if it's expensive, then the expensiveness is irrelevant.
as long as you don't pay for what you don't need, there's no reason not to have expensive features... people can always choose to not use them.
 
@Puppy --- written from my MacBook Pro
 
ninjaed
 
5:36 PM
@BartekBanachewicz actually I think the question still stands
from what I see >>= only works for whatever is in your Just and returns a Maybe that
 
@Puppy I suppose it's pretty obvious that I agree--but apparently quite a few C programmers don't. The part I find really amusing is that in many cases the lack of the "expensive" feature means they hack together something on their own that's even more expensive (e.g., old versions of UNIX had essentially a map, but based on linear searching...)
 
wait nvm
I got it
can we stop with the stupid stars
 
yeah, wtf with the stars
 
@JohanLarsson What stars?
 
@Puppy In theory, or at least ideally, more expensive products should be of better quality.
But we all know life isn't so simple.
 
5:40 PM
@JerryCoffin ty
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah, but they're C programmers, what were you expecting- for them to have a reasonable opinion?
 
uuuuu, someone has the power to remove stars
 
I like rust type names
 
with great power comes great responsibility
 
@JohanLarsson Gotta abuse those owner powers at least once in a while, now don't I?
 
5:42 PM
can you imagine that for someone "trolling the people in the see pee pee lounge with stars =DDD" sounds like a great friday evening pastime
 
@JerryCoffin how are you planning to abuse them? I asked sehe for owner but he stiffed me :)
 
@Puppy I like to think that even when I wrote C, I had at least a few reasonable opinions... :-)
 
@JerryCoffin right; just those weren't about programming...
 
If I'm asked to do a project in C I run right?
Don't know any C
 
@JerryCoffin Nope. Not a single one.
 
5:46 PM
@ScarletAmaranth I even had a few about programming that I think were pretty decent. Like when I saw C++, I thought: "in a few years when this is reasonably finished, it's gonna be a huge improvement."
@JohanLarsson Depends on how much they're willing to pay (and if they're paying close enough attention to notice that your "C" has a few oddities, starting with #include <algorithm>. :-)
 
I expect to get the same pay from chatting 100% for two years as doing anything else.
But it is fun to write code so I don't chat while at work.
 
impl<A: Hash> Hash for (A,)
impl<A: Hash, B: Hash> Hash for (A, B)
impl<A: Hash, B: Hash, C: Hash> Hash for (A, B, C)
impl<A: Hash, B: Hash, C: Hash, D: Hash> Hash for (A, B, C, D)
heh
 
what if I want A B C D and also E?
 
@ScarletAmaranth there go up to some bigger letter
 
@BartekBanachewicz they use the WET programming methodology
 
5:54 PM
ooh cool Rust has Trait deriving
and actual hash combining
nice. points for that.
outclasses C++ here by far
 
user406009
WTF Java. Why do you have such a bad future api?
 
because Java is from the past
 
user406009
Whoever wrote this must have been really high.
4
 
user406009
That is 58 methods!
 
lmao
> thenAcceptBothAsync
/Users/bajtek/Projects/rust/src/main.rs:5:5: 5:12 error: no method named `assert_receiver_is_total_eq` found for type `f64` in the current scope
/Users/bajtek/Projects/rust/src/main.rs:5     x : f64,
                                              ^~~~~~~
wut
the squiggles are weird btw
aha, it actually won't let me use Eq for floats
nice.
 
Ell
6:01 PM
inb4 "rust is better than haskell"
 
user406009
@Ell We already had that discussion. Haskell offers more for verifying programming correctness.
 
user406009
Rust offers better speed.
 
That's why im going to expose C api out of that and call it from Haskell
I wonder if direct Haskell->Rust FFI could be safer though
 
user406009
That would be quite difficult.
 
is rust calling scheme so complicated?
 
user406009
6:08 PM
I think the main issue is that the core data-structures are different.
 
user406009
Mutable vs immutable data structures.
 
haskell deals perfectly fine with mutable data structures
remember we're talking about FFI stuff here
that's the dirty work anyway
 
you can make a game with this state monad thing
2
 
@AlexM. :)!
 
Quick question - anyone has any experience compiling cairo boilerplate part on win32 ?
 
6:11 PM
I've tried and failed last time IIRC
 
Well, that's soothing... :)
 
@Borgleader I like ciri :D
and how geralt looks like he's getting scolded
 
@BartekBanachewicz Insufficient excuse. Even when it was brand new (still in beta), it was obvious to anybody who had a clue that Java had serious design problems.
 
Woooow
GH for Mac actually uses notification api
 
user3790646
Oh well, encapsulation was supposed to be a "life saver", but look at that: SDL_RenderCopy(editor->renderer->getRenderer(), editor->textureManager->retrieveImage("inventary.png"), this->getIcon()->getSrcRect(), this->getIcon()->getDstRect());
 
user1804599
6:13 PM
case class Mu[F[_]](out: F[Mu[F]])
 
user1804599
absolutely amazing
 
I really like this codewars platform
 
user1804599
higher-kinded types are great.
 
I hope it gets better as time passes, right now it's a bit rough around the edges and not that great content-wise
but I like the idea of autosupporting unit tests and promoting TDD
 
@elyse what language is that?
 
user1804599
6:14 PM
Scala.
 
@Andrey Why are you using this->
 
Ell
@Andrey why do you use renderer->getRenderer()?
 
@AlexM. yeah, looks cool. I've just registered
 
user3790646
@BartekBanachewicz It's so that I notice from what class that variable belongs
 
you'll most likely be disappointed by the lack of difficulty
the hardest problem I've seen was a simple compiler from some basic stuff to a simple asm
the thing is that is listed as medium diff (within "Proficient" or w/e) and I haven't seen any expert + master problems yet
 
user3790646
6:21 PM
@Ell the SDL_Renderer pointer variable is hidden inside the Renderer class, SDL_Renderer is not a class so I cannot inherit from it
 
I don't know if you have to unlock them, it doesn't say in the FAQ
people contribute problems, everything is peer reviewed
also people decide what rank problems get
 
Ell
@Andrey why do you want to inherit from it?
you know whut I'm not in the mood for this :3
 
user1804599
 
user3790646
lol is someone kicking me out of the room?
 
Ell
auto parser = double_ >> qi::ascii::space >> double_;
std::tuple<double, unused_type, double> out;
qi::parse(src.begin(), src.end(), parser, out); // template errors :(
 
user3790646
6:25 PM
wtf...
 
Ell
@Andrey wut
why do you think that?
 
user3790646
the website suddenly stops running
 
zipValidate :: String -> Bool
zipValidate "" = False
zipValidate (a:b:c:d:e:f:[]) = allDigits && okeyBegin
  where
    allDigits = all isDigit [a,b,c,d,e,f]
    okeyBegin = not $ any (a ==) ['0','5','7','8','9']
    isDigit a = any (a ==) ['0'..'9']
zipValidate _ = False
 
user3790646
but other websites are running correctly
 
@AlexM. I almost feel like this ^ is cheating :D
btw we should join this clan thing :D
 
6:27 PM
So
My python class is going to have a final project
 
yep lemme know what clan you set and I'll join
 
and that project can be.... I think? whatever I want.
 
I'll follow back
 
@AlexM. i didn't set anything. Lounge<Haskell>?
 
So, what should I do?
 
6:28 PM
@BartekBanachewicz pick a language other than Haskell :P try rubby
 
@Andrey I guess I could if you really want me to (and ask nicely)...
 
anyone else finds Herb's C++14 default talk somewhat boring?
 
@BartekBanachewicz sure
 
Herb's talks are always boring
 
@Rapptz It sure put me to sleep.
 
user3790646
6:28 PM
@JerryCoffin no, thank you, love
 
I skipped ahead during it multiple times.
 
I think I saw a problem where rubby was too slow no matter what or sth
 
@AlexM. hehe
 
someone complained that after moving the same logic to python made it fast enough
 
6:29 PM
> C++XY
 
I dunno, he goes over trivial stuff in detail and length
 
user406009
@ThePhD A game.
 
@AndyProwl C++99.
 
and then does a 3 hop-away pointer example that no sane programmer would ever write anyway
 
@Lalaland A game?
In python? Sounds like it could be fun...
 
6:30 PM
# to benchmark throughput of fifo, paste this in terminal:
rm -rf a b ; mkfifo a b ; read <a ; time wc -c b

# then paste this in a second terminal:
echo >a; time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1000000000 count=1 of=b
Friday stuff...
 
@AndyProwl I didn't go to this one - is it the same one he gives every time? ;p
 
user406009
@ThePhD Do snake.
 
[](){}
 
@AlexM. I don't see you as an Ally
 
6:31 PM
Also I love how he implicitly elevates himself to Stepanov's level by saying "STL2".
 
@ElimGarak [](){}();
 
@BartekBanachewicz did you follow me?
 
@AlexM. yeah and changed my clan
oh wut
 
I didn't get a notif
 
it says my clan is "Lounge"
 
6:31 PM
I should've gotten it
 
I get around 2.5Gbit/s with dd through a fifo.
 
gimme link to profile
 
I explicitely typed Lounge<Haskell>
this is weird
 
try typing in "DROP TABLE users"
 
hehe
sometimes it shows sometimes not
 
6:32 PM
yeah it's a bit buggy
one thing to watch out for
when you click submit solution and it times out, copy your source code and refresh
don't edit your source then refresh because it only saves what was there until the time out
 
hmm, should I try codewars
 
user3790646
Alex Marginean...
 
@JohanLarsson you can join our clan
 
it works for me
I followed you
 
6:35 PM
@ElimGarak This is why you preserve things more carefully.
 
@AlexM. "Clan"
 
@BartekBanachewicz It will not be god for your clan if it is some kind of competition
 
user3790646
@AlexM. Are you a pedo, Alex Marginean? Or a loli?
 
We're a clan now?
 
6:36 PM
we're a pro esports team
 
Pro ecode team?
 
@JohanLarsson nah it's not
 
it says clan because the theme of the website is japanese martial arts
friends are called allies
problems are called katas
 
@EtiennedeMartel Clan McLounge
5
 
lol
 
user3790646
6:38 PM
John McDonald... Tyler Hoffman...
 
user3790646
@AlexM. Hmm Okay, you're not a pedo
 
> The list must be sorted by the value and be sorted largest to smallest.
expected: [(0,8),(1,8)]
 but got: [(1,8),(0,8)]
what the fuck
oh stable sort
oor wait
 
user3790646
@BartekBanachewicz @B haskellforall.com/2015/08/…
 
Sean's talk is definitely the best out of the 3 currently available; sorry Bjarne, your sparkles have been stolen
 
@ScarletAmaranth Sparkling Sean?
Also, link?
 
Griwes?
 
I don't see Griwes's talk online yet.
Whoa, python has operator overloading.
Kinky!
Puts it a step above Java.
 
Xeo
Python is generally nice
 
I'm tinkering with it.
 

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