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5:02 PM
Your solution will work because it will effectively shutdown SO. No site, no flamewars, no pendants, no problem. — Mysticial 9 secs ago
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes OSH Park seems nice flickr.com/groups/oshpark
"My theory is based on the observation that the higher the reputation the less helpful and more pedantic the person." I guess that must mean I've never helped anyone. I do close a lot of bad questions, but that doesn't mean I don't help out on good questions. And yes, you need to put some effort into writing a good question, and you should do research before asking. (SO isn't a substitute for trying to do your work yourself.) — Jon Skeet 31 mins ago
:(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I want pictures of something you printed plz! :)
 
I kinda like dirtypcbs.com better, though.
> No bull, just crappy PCBs
3
Their slogan.
 
@sehe why the sad face?
 
5:11 PM
rofl
@Borgleader Because of the sentiment on that answer
> My theory is based on the observation that the higher the reputation the less helpful and more pedantic the person.
 
Their e-mails are all in the same spirit too.
 
That's so... outrageous
 
@sehe oh, but you linked the comment, so... i was confused
 
@sehe Getting told by Jon Skeet on meta is quite difficult actually. I'd consider it an accomplishment.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I guess that'll get old. I remember try to recall another that service with that much wit.
 
5:13 PM
> We add some crap to your boards!

The board house will add three tiny numbers to your board: batch ID, a customer number, and our PCB ID. This is so everyone knows which crappy PCBs to send you. Don't like it? Tough. Buy an entire panel somewhere else.
 
@Borgleader You're only confused when you try to assign meaning without context :)
 
@sehe They're not making much money (30 cents per board IIRC)
It's more of a "friends" thing than a real business.
@Borgleader Drivers failed to install automatically :/
 
What d'ya know. Seems Gnome/Ubuntu fixed that years-long bug where opening the CD tray would immediately close it again
 
Maybe I'll print this for a test nasa3d.arc.nasa.gov/detail/iss-tools
lol, pic doesn't match model
 
5:29 PM
...
 
@fredoverflow Jajajajaja
 
@rightfold Dolan Kunth
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have faith in you!
?
 
The Fart Of Cum Pewter Pro Gaming
 
Loading filament.
 
5:45 PM
¬_¬ I hate that doc
@R.MartinhoFernandes inb4 I've burnt my fingers
 
I'll let it calibrate while I go to the Späti.
 
Spati?
 
@thecoshman A shop
 
user1804599
woohoo @Ven
 
user1804599
let result = runIdentity . sub $ do
        entry <- block
        callee <- inst $ LoadGlobalInst (ModuleName ["mill", "log"]) "info"
        logger <- inst $ LoadArgumentInst 0
        msg <- inst $ StringInst "Hello, world!"
        result <- inst $ CallInst callee [logger, msg]
        inst $ ReturnInst result
        return entry
 
user1804599
 
@nabijaczleweli oooh
 
I'm having people over so I need to resupply on drinks and snacks.
 
yay, fianlly sorted out chat extension for at home
for some reason I can't remove the old one without breaking chrome... disable it's non-function self sure, but not remove it vOv
 
K.
Printing New Horizons antenna dish.
Be back in an hour or so.
 
why no live stream?
 
6:12 PM
Woot.
Any good Android apps to cast into an AppleTV
?
My flatmate has one in the living room.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I very much doubt it :P
be that a heated bed?
 
No.
Under the bed is filament
 
oh, it has some sort of low stick mat thing that's semi-reusable, right?
 
@rightfold after some more thinking, it's actually really simple to efficiently store and remember outside references: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/ade265cee4f0e04b
 
user1804599
I know a guy who made a 3D scanner, scanned his head, 3D-printed it, made a mould around it from something like sand or clay and then poured molten metal into it.
 
user1804599
6:27 PM
@orlp ok
 
user1804599
cool
 
@rightfold it's actually surprisingly simple, just the old 'swap to end and pop' trick
 
user1804599
:p
 
don't know why it took me this long to think of it =/
only 'disadvantage' is the tightly coupled design, but I mean, the classes are made for eachother anyway
 
user1804599
GC and GCRef being coupled is a non-issue.
 
6:32 PM
yeah
 
6:43 PM
My job as a data analyst dilutes to trying to find out why the data I am analyzing does not match the field data.
I am stuck in a loop of "Look at this interesting thing I found" and "You forgot to include this factor"
 
Man I suck at this.
 
@Nican R or Python
And what type of data analysis?
 
@VermillionAzure Hahaha. An in-house tool called "Cosmos". The data sets are usually 100GB+, and I am looking at server health.
It is both a gift and a curse.
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes prove it.
 
@Nican so wut language
R u telling me the truth or should I let bygones be pythons
 
6:52 PM
@VermillionAzure A SQL-language called Scope, that compiles to C#/C++.
 
@Nican Why you no R or Python
 
For example, I left a job running overnight, and after 10 hours, 700GB of data processed, and 738 CPU hours went to waste because 1 small node did not finish in 5 hours.
Can you show me a python tool that allows me to process 700GB of data?
 
Oh my god wtf is your data
 
Still, that is not the problem, if I were to use python, it would not make the data any more sane.
In this case, it was 3 days data of the distributed job scheduling system.
 
And I do data analysis tool development in my internship. There is nothing that big. What is that, temperature every 100ms or something
Oh, and what types of analysis do you do
Is that like NMF or something
 
6:56 PM
It is mostly clustering; We are trying to find miss-behaving, but yet functional systems. Looking at logs, and seeing what is abnormal.
 
@Nican so NMF, kmeans?
Or is it confidential?
 
I am not entirely familiar with the algorithm. It was written by some guys in MSR-Asia. It uses TF-IDF to find the correlation between log traces, and a very simple distance function to find their distances.
I guess k-means.
 
Idk lol I just know the names and kind of how they work
@Nican hmm that seems interesting. Is it all a 2D matrix?
 
@VermillionAzure Not sure how that applies.
 
@Nican My data is in the form of a non negative 2D matrix that's why. Is your data like text files?
Or log files?
 
7:04 PM
@VermillionAzure All log files. Unstructured strings.
 
@Nican oh no wonder.
I C I c
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes hosting parties or 3D printing?
 
3D printing parties
@samthebest "the site is full of pedants who spoil it for new users" - no, it's full of new users who spoil it for the pedants (or experts who can actually answer the questions, as they're better known). — jonrsharpe 2 hours ago
 
7:23 PM
@rightfold I'm still not sure, is it better design if I expose a functional interface gc_alloc, gc_collect and keep the state in internal linkage in the implementation file, or should I make a singleton gc.alloc, gc.collect?
 
user1804599
I really don't care.
 
@orlp Objects, maybe. If they're self-encapsulated. What if you need several instances within the same domain?
 
@VermillionAzure by nature, there will only be one GC
 
@orlp Why?
 
@orlp Yes, but what if you want to have several "memory-spaces" for different threads?
 
7:26 PM
@nabijaczleweli it's a lot more convenient to have the GC be implicitly addressed by having it global, and any proper GC shouldn't function better when segmented rather than as a whole
 
@orlp Globals? Nuuuuuu
 
imagine if everytime you wrote new you had to give it an additional argument that says on which heap you want to allocate, and that you have to pass this heap around
@VermillionAzure globals are frowned upon, but some things are just inherently global
 
@orlp Then make a frame or something.
 
memory models are one such thing
 
@orlp Until they're not.
 
7:28 PM
@orlp Hmmm... I was thinking about multiple heaps, but your message makes it sound really bad
 
I've had to design a line drawing program.
I chose to use a global variable to handle all my points.
Suddenly, I need to draw different lines with different codes.
 
@VermillionAzure not even comparable
 
Now I need 50 global variables.
@nabijaczleweli It's plausible with threads or limiting memory usage.
 
well, I'm not supporting threads in any shape or form here
 
@orlp What is this for, anyways?
 
7:29 PM
a Lisp interpreter
 
@orlp You want threads. Probably.
 
@VermillionAzure no I don't
 
@orlp Yes I can
No I don't
Yes I can
YES I CANNNNN
♪ Whatever you can do, I can do better ♪
 
hrm
let me make a quote
 
@orlp But you might want to think about threads.
 
7:31 PM
"Some people, when confronted with n problems, think "I know, I'll use threads." Now they have 2^n problems."
 
I'm stuck using a Lisp interpreter that doesn't have them. It's not nice when you're trying to do CPU-intensive work without proper use of multithreading
 
@VermillionAzure smells like bullshit
 
@orlp I use Lisp in my job. I make scripts for a drafting program.
 
with CPU intensive work you're only looking at a potential 2 to 4x speedup with threads
 
@orlp Only are you crazy only?
 
user1804599
7:33 PM
Lack of threads isn't nice even in programs that don't face CPU-bound problems.
 
you need several orders of magnitude of speedup to justify the massive complexity that threads add
 
user1804599
Fuck callbacks and fuck futures and fuck continuation monads. Give me threads.
 
@orlp Or, you know, just make nice abstractions
Use futures, coroutines, etc.
Concurrency is the future.
 
but if you really think you can parallelize your code, why not spawn it in multiple processes?
 
@orlp It matters when I need to do clustering analysis with matrices that are 23000 by 720 and this should happen very fast for a usable application.
 
user1804599
7:35 PM
Do it in C++.
 
That, too
 
@rightfold Yes, it already is in C++.
R links to C++-native code more than half the libraries I use.
In fact, they compile natively when you install it.
 
but IMO in the current state of software tools and CPU hardware, the only real attraction in threads is circumventing blocking I/O and realtime servers
 
@orlp You don't know what you're talking about, do you? I only know 10% of what I'm talking about but I know that threads are important.
 
fact is, except for small portions of a program, most of the code is linear in nature, and does not get any speedup from threading
 
user1804599
7:38 PM
Blocking I/O master race.
 
@VermillionAzure I think I do. The fact that you're doing heavy numeric computation makes you a niche market.
 
@orlp GPUs thrive off of concurrent calculations. They're an extremely huge business and most heavy graphics applications require the use of concurrent calculations.
@orlp lol niche
 
@VermillionAzure that's not the same as threading
@VermillionAzure that's multiprocessing
 
user1804599
Async I/O is for low-level user-level scheduler implementing savages (like me :v).
 
the key difference is that GPUs don't share memory
threads share memory
 
7:40 PM
@orlp Threading is still relevant--if life gives you lemons...
 
multiprocessing is great, and I think has a bright future
 
If CPUs give you threads...
 
user1804599
@VermillionAzure you don't want concurrent calculations per se.
 
user1804599
You want them in parallel in particular.
 
@VermillionAzure the CPU doesn't give you threads
the OS does
the CPU gives you cores
 
7:41 PM
@orlp Semantic definitions.
 
user1804599
The distinction is extremely important.
 
@VermillionAzure No, not in your case.
You want purrrformance
that's parallelism
not concurrency
 
user1804599
Concurrency is about the coordination of independently executing tasks.
 
You're right.
 
user1804599
Parallelism is about running multiple tasks at the same time.
 
7:42 PM
@orlp But how do you expect to have parallelism without threads?
 
@VermillionAzure Processes
 
@VermillionAzure Multiprocessing, like I said above.
 
or whatever, really
run on a cluster
it's irrelevant
 
user1804599
Two processes both have their own thread, so there are multiple threads.
 
The key point I'm trying to make, is that shared memory is an abomination, which is what threads do.
 
7:42 PM
which is irrelevant to your application
the fact that threads are used is irrelevant
you run stuff on machines and expect them to return output
 
user1804599
Multiple processes can also share memory.
 
it could be multiple threads, multiple processes on a single machines, or a cluster
 
Anything connected to the internet can share memory.
 
the fact you may use threads for that isn't really that important for you
a.k.a. implementation detail
 
Isn't memory access itself a huge price anyways?
Cache lines are still important, as Scott Meyers says
 
7:45 PM
@VermillionAzure It depends entirely
 
@orlp Shared mutable memory is usually bad. Please don't overgeneralize. :P
 
It depends on your locality of reference, and caching
 
in some cases you may just want to throw more machines on it, and it will solve your problem
 
In general, if you're hitting the cache memory accesses are fine.
@milleniumbug Not if you use multithreading :)
 
@orlp so you're an MPI guy?
 
7:47 PM
If you're missing the cache... ouch.
@Mgetz I don't know what that means, sorry.
 
@orlp see what I wrote above
 
Message Passing Interface (MPI) is a standardized and portable message-passing system designed by a group of researchers from academia and industry to function on a wide variety of parallel computers. The standard defines the syntax and semantics of a core of library routines useful to a wide range of users writing portable message-passing programs in different computer programming languages such as Fortran, C, C++ and Java. There are several well-tested and efficient implementations of MPI, including some that are free or in the public domain. These fostered the development of a parallel software...
 
L1 cache is 1-5 CPU cycles, L2 is ~10, L3 is >=100 and main memory is >=1000 CPU cycles usually
on a modern desktop CPU
this is for example why std::vector is often faster, even where you'd expect std::list to be perfect (lots of insertions/deletions in the middle)
 
So Ludia gave me a Jurassic World poster.
I think they had like three dozens in stock for some reason.
 
@orlp Yes.
If you were to use message passing... wouldn't this technically take longer?
 
7:55 PM
@VermillionAzure it depends entirely on OS support
 
user1804599
No.
 
user1804599
It depends on a lot more factors.
 
user1804599
Such as the message passing implementation and serialisation cost.
 
@rightfold if you take C++ as the benchmark, there would be no serialisation cost
just a memcpy
 
not for non-triviably copyable objects
 
7:57 PM
@milleniumbug you can't share those anyway
 
I'd just figure that sharing mutable memory with coroutines/locks would be the best way to go about doing things in the most efficient manner.
 
user1804599
I should implement an optimisation pass.
 
@VermillionAzure ironically, nope
consider GPUs
 
user1804599
Which eliminates loads of strings, arguments and globals which aren't used.
 
@orlp Your L2 is a bit low. And your L3 + memory is high.
 
7:58 PM
they can be that fast exactly because they don't share memory
 
@orlp But they're suited to algorithms where you don't want to share memory
 
@Mysticial they more like orders of magnitude
 
@Mysticial What do you think?
You seem pretty high-cheese expert with this sort of stuff. Threads vs. processes.
 
@orlp oh
 
@Mysticial took the numbers from my computer architecture professor: liacs.nl/~csca/ca2014/lecture04.pdf
 

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