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1:01 PM
@rightfold how do you know the exact model?
 
@sehe I think that was @Puppy. I don't recall my GPU dying on me.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz google "converse all-starts boots"
 
user1804599
I can't possibly know the exact model, of course.
 
user1804599
But having to tie shoelaces is retarded in general, so especially when they're this long, so you could imagine that they have zippers indeed.
 
@nabijaczleweli I see you've put a death counter.
 
1:04 PM
@Nooble And HP under names and next to names
 
user1804599
> We've added 20 million new Instant Answers across 8 new Wikipedia languages!
 
user1804599
this sounds like the future
 
user1804599
 
"Instant Answers"?
 
@rightfold how do you know they are converse?
 
user1804599
1:09 PM
@BartekBanachewicz don't, but they look like
 
good day guys I just want to a ask if what programming language between c#.net and vb.net would you recommend me to use in developing a payroll system for a small company based on your personal preference and past experience?
 
user1804599
Uh.
 
user1804599
I doubt anybody here has much experience with VB.NET.
 
@user3783598 cobol
 
user1804599
It probably doesn't matter. Use what you're most comfortable with.
 
1:15 PM
@rightfold I do. But it should be long ago :)
 
user1804599
If you've never used either, don't write a payroll system that's going to be used in production in them.
 
@user3783598 try f#
 
@rightfold Instead, write Hexapoda?
@user3783598 sounds like the Excel approach. I'd start with the requirements before choosing tools
 
thanks guys
 
user1804599
1:16 PM
well, there you have it.
 
user1804599
Write it in JavaScript.
 
user1804599
rightfold, The Kingdom of the Netherlands
14.9k 4 28 60
 
@Nooble driver woobles?
 
cobol web framework is best web framework: coboloncogs.org/INDEX.HTM
 
user1804599
Awesome, !
 
user1804599
1:18 PM
 
yesterday, by Nooble
From almost 2 days of driver trouble.
 
finally some caffeine
I went through half the day wo it
 
@sehe Oh wait yes.
 
feelsbadman.jpg
 
1:20 PM
@sehe No DDR4 :(
 
user1804599
What do you do if you forgot to commit and now have done too much for a single commit?
 
revert
 
@rightfold git add -p
 
I went to get the keys to the new place
the owner is some dude who drives a BMW and makes $$$ off renting apartments
 
@rightfold harakiri
 
1:24 PM
he looks decent enough :D
also recommended the number of a chick who does cleaning at a nice price
no more dirty rooms
 
user1804599
I don't commit sudoku.
 
user1804599
Wrong kind of commit.
 
@Nooble aha
Eucalyptus leaves
 
@AlexM. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
and you're mad when I say you're 10 yo :P
 
1:35 PM
Ugh, fuck robots.txt that deny /
Someone took down a blog where there was a post that probably contained what I wanted to read, and now I can't get the contents in any way :F
 
@AlexM. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
Woot, got printer. Finally.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes congrats
post your printed stuff so I can be envious until I get one myself :<
 
Will probably not use it before Saturday.
 
so batman v superman movie is a real thing
imagine all those nerds
 
1:42 PM
it's been a thing for ages now
in the centuries past when lori used to roam these lands we talked about it
and lori stole my batman bin suparman joke and posted in on twitter :<
what a fucking asshole
 
@AlexM. it was a nerd discussion
now they're making a movie about it
 
no like the movie was announced ages ago
with a trailer
are we not talking about the same movie
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes 2D, 3D or 4D?
 
Apr 17 at 12:11, by Lightning Racis in Obrit
user image
it started thar i think
 
1:48 PM
The sound of Saturn is my favourite, of course: nasa.gov/mp3/584791main_spookysaturn.mp3
 
Xeo
> * rename("test.txt", "test.txt") is required to be a no-op, but we were deleting the file
lol
 
user1804599
I always rename files by reading their contents into memory, deleting the original and then writing the new one.
 
Good morning
 
user1804599
It's efficient, safe and atomic.
 
@rightfold Instead of using a system function like MoveFile?
 
@EtiennedeMartel "frimousse"
lol
 
user1804599
are you still writing terrible tutorials?
 
I find French funny too
 
1:52 PM
@rightfold I actually saw something about how ext4 operations like mv is atomic so could be used for db vOv it was only half serious, I didn't read it
 
> You always need to make sure that code that relies on a certain variable or function always comes before the code that uses it
the hell does that mean
 
@rightfold lol no
 
user1804599
> Because OOP is “cleaner and easier to manage.”
 
@CatPlusPlus Frimousse, man. FRIMOUSSE.
 
user1804599
I like the quotes.
 
1:53 PM
Hilariousse
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus It was a joke. :v
 
> as long as they come before and do not exist only in another function’s scope.
 
user1804599
> Because you will forget things after 6 months and OOP ensures you can’t do “illegal” things that 6 months ago you’d never have done with your functions and variables.
 
that's not true for inline lambda functions
 
@CatPlusPlus That's actually how my boss (who is French) says "hilarious".
 
1:53 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes fix that for nasa
 
@VermillionAzure remind me why are you writing C++ tutorials again
doesn't the world have enough of them
 
@VermillionAzure Also, that fucking "classes are blueprints" analogy.
 
> :: is the scope operator
 
user1804599
top kek
 
@rightfold ITT oop stops people being stupid?
 
1:55 PM
it's not an operator
 
user1804599
@thecoshman stupid people OOP.
 
user1804599
It's too specialised to say it's the solution to everything.
 
paradigms are not the problem, it's fanaticism [that is]
 
Don't you know that how you call it and what paradigm of the week you're using is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING
 
1:57 PM
Hurgh, that brace placement.
 
And style
 
@CatPlusPlus lol how many of those exist
icons that is
 
well, okay, I was wrong about that thing actually
3
:: is defined as scope resolution operator
(still not "scope operator")
 
Only mad people put opening braces on the same line.
 
1:58 PM
@EtiennedeMartel understanding use of square brackets is on the list of things to do, just very low down.
 
user1804599
 
> Classes are declarations for objects
what the fuck
> Classes directly own variables
 
@BartekBanachewicz please, we let him write those articles there so we don't have to listen to it.
 
> Suddenly, instead of having to deal with code with just names that hint at the functions and variables
 
@EtiennedeMartel or jabbascript people
 
1:59 PM
Suddenly, shit.
 
as if OOP was automagically better than that
 
and if you are wanting to actually help, write up all that is wrong and post it to him in one go.
 
@FlorianMargaine You just said the same thing
 
@EtiennedeMartel Not very suddenly
 
user1804599
OOP is good iff you have a fixed set of operations to perform on different kinds of data.
 
1:59 PM
May 21 at 13:15, by Tony The Lion
lol rightfold's opinions
 
@thecoshman good point
 
Had to fish that one out.
 
@EtiennedeMartel we're all mad here
 
rightfold's definitions are good iff
 
@BartekBanachewicz all my points are good, or trolls :P
 
2:00 PM
I wonder if pinning that counts as cyberbullying.
 
user1804599
iff 1 equals 1
 
@thecoshman was that one good or a troll
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's Paamayim Nekudotayim.
 
@EtiennedeMartel ah now, can't give him credit twice
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh love that
 
2:01 PM
You had to Google for that
 
can I post C code here?
 
@CatPlusPlus Of course. He's a Robot, not an Israeli.
 
@BartekBanachewicz On the internet, one is never wrong, just late to point out that they might have been trolling.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I found it in the standard
@LeeJeong no.
 
2:02 PM
I always consider troll retcons to be bullshit.
 
Hmm. online.net's API is pretty nice.
 
@CatPlusPlus No.
I know two words in Hebrew.
 
user1804599
oy vey
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know one sentence of Polish :D
 
I'd prefer if keepalived had a chance to just work in their networks, but just having to issue a single API request when becoming a master is not too bad.
> WHY SHOULD I USE OBJECTS?
Because otherwise you'd use no memory!
 
user1804599
2:03 PM
@thecoshman Kurwa, przynieś mi piwo.
4
 
@rightfold that's a good one
 
> Is It Hard?

Easy to use, hard to master.
That's what I told her.
5
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Exciting.
 
user1804599
how to pronounce przynieś help
 
2:04 PM
> Most of C++ libraries’ code (including the standard library) is in the form of objects (cin and cout are just two of them).
 
@rightfold Too many consonants next to each other, abort.
 
@rightfold prits-nits
 
...not to mention every instance of every non-reference type ever.
 
user1804599
pripyat
 
That's a city where stuff happened.
 
2:07 PM
Wait.
> Is It Hard?
Easy to use, hard to master.
Then Why Show Me Now?
 
No, you can't try again.
 
Huge decontextification potential.
 
Too late (to apologize).
> OOP is powerful. Usually, again, this means you can set things up and stop repeating yourself
Ooh, now I see why rightfold doesn't use OOP.
 
@rightfold /pšyȵɛɕ/ ?
I don't now IPA nearly enough I guess.
> The Polish alveolar consonants /č ǯ š ž/ are so considerably different from English postalveolar (palatoalveolar) sounds marked /ʧ̑ ʤ̑ ʃ ʒ/ in IPA that even IPA creators prefer using the nonstandard markings
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes do not say "But it takes concentration"
 
2:12 PM
@BartekBanachewicz lol, the nationalist bias in that article is so strong you can almost cut it with a knife.
> the standard set of IPA symbols, leaned on English patterns and international only from its name
 
ow
well he has a point though, I guess
 
@BartekBanachewicz Which one?
 
user1804599
so terrible
 
That English doesn't sound like Polish?
 
that some IPA symbols might not be enough for Polish?
 
2:17 PM
That's a claim, not a point.
 
7 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
I don't now IPA nearly enough I guess.
 
user1804599
How to represents type in a compiler when they can be recursive?
 
@sehe: I read one answer written by you. Can you explain some functions in the code?
 
@rightfold is your type system sound?
 
user1804599
Yes.
 
user1804599
2:19 PM
data Type
    = StringType
    | TupleType [Type]
    | NamedType DeclID
 
user1804599
And then keep a map of declared types, like data DeclaredType = StructType [Field] | UnionType [Constructor] | AliasType Type and Map DeclID DeclaredType.
 
user1804599
That should be possible.
 
hm, now that I think about it, type system soundness doesn't guarantee type checking totality
> Typing rules are sound ⇐⇒ no well-formed program gets stuck
 
user1804599
Well, define "soundness".
 
user1804599
If it's synonymous with "type-safety" then the question is how type-safe, since type-safety is not a Boolean property but a scale.
 
2:23 PM
I need to learn more about type theory
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz There are programs which type-check but will never terminate for some input.
 
user1804599
Such as sub main(): () { main() }.
 
I don't think "getting stuck" and "nonterminating" are analogous here
 
user1804599
It got stuck in an infinite loop :(
 
user1804599
Yeah I think what I described above should work.
 
user1804599
2:27 PM
Hello world needs no generics so I don't have to worry about type constructors yet.
 
funny, police forces in poland use the same motorcycle I want to buy
 
user1804599
All Cops Are Bartek.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz where is that from?
 
it's the bigger-engined version admittedly
 
2:32 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Neither does the author, it seems (or the article is very old). The article consistently ignores the IPA letters representing the actual sounds he wants and instead misrepresents them with the "so considerably different" ones from English it mentions. Unless it's from an old time when IPA was much smaller, it's basically one huge strawman argument ("a misused subset of IPA is not enough for Polish").
Date on the website says 2008, so the "very old" theory doesn't really hold.
There have been almost no changes since 1989.
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow do you know any uses for forSome in Scala?
 
user1804599
I've never needed it nor seen it used.
 
user1804599
> One interesting thing about existentials is that you can use them to use-site variance when it's not possible to make the type covariant.
 
user1804599
Arrays!
 
user1804599
Though many uses of existentials can be replaced with abstract types.
 
user1804599
 
@rightfold i watched most of them live; some weren't even D related vOv :P
 
> You need only 2 steps to set it up
1. (...)
2. (...)
3. (...)
4. (...)
 
user1804599
Pick any two!
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes 2 of those are '???' and 'Profit!'
 
lmao this cat's reaction wtf
@Xeo are your cats like this
 
Xeo
2:51 PM
dafuq the voice
 
I'm so happy that cats are always this dedicated to entertain us
lovely pets
 
user1804599
Type aliases are tricky.
 
user1804599
They're equal to the types they alias but they have to be treated differently for error messages and because I want to retain them in compiled module files.
 
@learningpal uhoh. You discovered I posted a answer by mistake. Well. What could be the question?
 
holy hell
I don't know what I expected but certainly not that load of 90s
great song tho
 
2:59 PM
@BartekBanachewicz hey it's mcdruglin cokekin
I just made those words up
 
ohhh thanks for reminding me I was supposed to buy snuff
haven't had it since ever
 
> Very fine tobacco to be used for snorting, traditionally taken by the English aristocracy.
and bartek
 
it has old traditions in my region
esp. Kashubia
dunno where to buy
there's a nice store in Gdańsk but that's quite a ride and this part of the city is going to be crowded af ATM
and I'm 4-wheeled today
 
0
Q: How do I refactor unit tests?

fredoverflowThis has been driving me nuts lately... What is refactoring? Code refactoring is the process of restructuring existing computer code – changing the factoring – without changing its external behavior. And how do we make sure we don't break anything during refactoring? Before refactoring...

Can anyone restore my sanity?
 
3:14 PM
Bartek's answer is gud
 
@fredoverflow Probably not worth an answer but I guess the test's tests are the coverage
 
user1804599
 
@Mr.kbok Erm, no? If during the refactoring you accidentally delete an assertEquals line, you won't get any feedback on that.
 
@fredoverflow true
 
@fredoverflow Compare amount of assertions before and after?
 
3:17 PM
@nabijaczleweli static or dynamic number of assertions? And who compares them?
 
@fredoverflow I have no goddamn idea, my "solution" was to DTSTTCPW
 
Which one of [these](http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/istream/istream/operator%3E%3E/) applies to
`<< s`
when
`std::string s = "this is a string"`
?
 
lol, none.
 
> unit tests with good coverage are worth their weight in results. You don't keep them for amazing program structure or lack of duplication
@BartekBanachewicz hm, interesting
 
It's operator>>, not <<
 
3:19 PM
yeah it is
 
Because I have seen people get rid of cude duplication in unit tests via inheritance from an abstract test class :)
 
Duplicated code in tests is good, I think.
 
you can do
std::string s;
std::stringstream ss;
ss >> s;
but why?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's not bad
 
Readability trumps a lot of other concerns in tests.
 
3:20 PM
sometimes avoiding duplication increases readability
 
@andrew Why? Because operator>>(stringstream, string) overload exists.
 
So I can see incentive to refactoring stuff.
 
@andrew Because there's an overloaded operator>> for std::string and std::istream?
 
user1804599
Real programmers refucktor.
 
why doesn't stack overflow let me see all of a user's messages in a chatroom
 
3:21 PM
The only thing I don't duplicate in tests is vocabulary and infrastructure code.
 
why does this search thing of theirs suck so much
 
Ah. I got it. C++ is so damn functional :D
2
 
E.g. special assertions.
 
-- style non-dup
set A = { "A", "B", "C" }
set B = { 1, 2, 3 }

tests = cartesian (A, B)

-- style dup
tests = [
 {"A", 1},
 {"A", 2},
 {"A", 3},
 {"B", 1}, ...
 
Thank you :)
 
user1804599
3:22 PM
C++ is more like
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I consider non-duplication more readable here ^
 
user1804599
so damn imperative!
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's just using different data sets.
 
those data sets are exactly the same
just expressed differently
 
What?
It's the same test with different data.
 
user1804599
3:23 PM
@fredoverflow refactor these tests will ya github.com/mill-lang/horror/blob/master/test/thread.js :D
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes um.
 
user1804599
They have too much duplication!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes my goal was to show how not duplicating data might lead to more readable tests specs
 
But Fred was talking about duplicating code.
 
user1804599
Code is data.
 
3:24 PM
^
 
user1804599
:P:P:P:P:P
 
Shut up, rightfold.
10
That's not Lisp.
 
user1804599
but not test data!
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes only if you're sexy enough and bring a ballgag
2
 
yesterday, by Etienne de Martel
Also, does anyone remember the last time rightfold said something relevant?
 
3:27 PM
can i specialize std::is_same ?
 
is it legal? EDIT: ok thanks @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
The only type trait you can specialize is common_type, I think.
 
@gnzlbg No, the police will shoot you
 
Basically, only those that are explicitly allowed.
@gnzlbg Well, technically you can, but you have to preserve the behaviour of the original trait.
 
3:28 PM
Is my program ill-formed if I specialize it?
 
template <> struct is_same<my_type, my_type> : std::true_type {}; is a valid specialization.
@gnzlbg Yes.
 
I see
 
user1804599
@gnzlbg UB
 
what is it? :D
 
And really, there'd be no reason to provide any other specialization.
 
3:29 PM
@gnzlbg Nasal daemons
 
inb4 some stupid reason.
 
user1804599
> Custom specializations of the type trait std::common_type are allowed, as long as at least one parameter is a user-defined type (note that the behavior of a program that adds a specialization to any other class from <type_traits> is undefined).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Many others you can, although the resulting specialization has to do the right thing so why bother?
 
if I have struct A {} and struct B{}, and I specialize std::is_same<A, B> to true_type ?
 
3:30 PM
@LucDanton Yeah, covered that.
 
user1804599
@gnzlbg UB according to cppreference
 
@rightfold thanks
 
user1804599
std::is_same is not std::common_type.
 
Thanks, Obama!
 
I was just thinking, A and B are isomorphic but they are not equal
 
3:31 PM
@gnzlbg Any such specialization essentially renders the type trait unusable for everyone.
 
user1804599
@nabijaczleweli What did Obama do?
 
and there is no way in C++ to say they are equal
i would have to say using B = A;
 
@rightfold Make std::is_same not be std::common_type
 
Define your own trait for the meaning you care about. Don’t piggy back on an unrelated meaning.
 
user1804599
I don't think Obama made that choice.
 
3:32 PM
> I don't think
 
@gnzlbg Because they are not the same. There's no reason to have a way of saying lies.
 
You can still have a useful default e.g. template<typename A, typename B> struct isomorphic: std::is_same<A, B> {};, or any elaboration thereupon.
 
3:44 PM
@rightfold you see, that's because he's so indecisive
We need Donald Trump
 
4:02 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yep just wanted to triple check that, thanks!
If I need two types to be the same I have to use using ... which does not create a type, but an alias, but then again if there was a way to create two truly distinct types that are equal one would not have a way to tell them apart anyways
so in some sense using A =... creates a new type that is equal to another type
 
user1804599
4:19 PM
@sehe Who is Donald Trump?
 
@rightfold A trump
 
user1804599
I only know Donald Duck and Donald Knuth.
 
@rightfold Yeah, one of them wrote an excellent specialist book about computer science and the other one invented TeX
 
user1804599
hi dolan
 
4:25 PM
Can reflections in CG be done in less that n + 1 passes?
 
user1804599
define "pass"
 
@rightfold In the shader.
 
Yes, for n large enough
 
@Mr.kbok Heh.
'n' being the number of reflective surfaces.
 
4:33 PM
xkcd top kek
 
@Mr.kbok Hahaha
xkcd is truly wonderful
 
@rightfold english for Dagobert Duck
 
user1804599
hmm
 
4:52 PM
I concur
 

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