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12:00 AM
Some kind of party.
Almost sounds like not much fun
 
Dunno what I'll do about it.
Just invited people over.
It's my birthday.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lick it
 
:D That's a start
 
awesome stuff, a month into my AI project and I finally get to do something AI related i.e. machine learning
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah. Well. Friends are all you need then
 
12:02 AM
makin' progress
 
@Jefffrey I had something similar happen to me, and then the exams were scheduled in a way that I'd need to be in two places at the same time. The teacher allowed me to take the exam an hour after the official time.
 
Let's hope for the best
 
IME things work out in the student's advantage all the time
you have to really be me to fuck it up
even when that happens
 
such pretense :)
 
so I think you'll be fine
 
12:06 AM
uhoh. I wonder what happened. Our office skype window just went offline
2am
 
Timestamp happened?
 
only reasonable cause I can think of
 
Did a 28-or-sth-bit integer overflow? :P
 
Just the 7th bit flew over
 
New day UTC
Fuck timezones
 
12:11 AM
Once again, does anyone have a problem with the mini make tutorial?
If not, I'm going to post it to Reddit for more critique
 
seems you do
 
@VermillionAzure automatic variables or bust or did you add them already?
 
@nabijaczleweli Good idea
 
^^
 
I'll post the link
Okay, done. Anything else?
 
12:13 AM
sure did
@orlp hi there
34 mins ago, by VermillionAzure
@R.MartinhoFernandes https://compactcpp.wordpress.com/2015/07/04/2-1-building-using-gnu-make/
 
@VermillionAzure Would make more sense if you moved autovar link up a paragraph (directly under autovars' descriptions)
 
@nabijaczleweli hmmmm
 
I like that you mention make as a commandline scripting system
 
@sehe hello
how'd you know I came online lel
 
@nabijaczleweli Yes, you're right.
@nabijaczleweli Well, it's not entirely wrong.
 
12:18 AM
@VermillionAzure I'd also add something about the $(shell ...) macro
 
@nabijaczleweli Yes, you're right.
 
@orlp there's this userlist animation
 
ah
I just opened my laptop screen
 
anyhow. I'm really off to bed now. Nothing personal
@orlp And now you're awake :(
 
What do you guys think about the future of Swift? Since Apple announced it will be open source from the coming December
 
12:23 AM
@sehe no no no
 
@TheArtist Fad after fad for every release.
 
it went: awake -> laptop
not laptop -> awake
 
Point is, you are awake
 
@MarkGarcia what does Fad mean?
 
What if it was laptop -> awake -> laptop?
 
12:23 AM
Noun: fad (plural fads)
  1. A phenomenon that becomes popular for a very short time.
  2. fad n (singular definite fadet, plural indefinite fade)
  3. fad m (genitive singular faid, plural faid)
  4. fad m (genitive singular faid or faide)
  5. fad (plural fads)
Adjective: fad (neuter fad or fadt, definite and plural fade)
  1. insipid, bland, slightly nauseating
  2. fad (comparative fader, superlative am fadesten or fadsten)
  3. fad (masculine faden, feminine fad, neuter fad)
 
@TheArtist do you even google
 
obviously he doesn't
He's the artist
 
@Borgleader s/Fad/google/ to his statement
 
@Borgleader ducked ;) actually no i use duckduckgo
 
@TheArtist meh
 
12:25 AM
@MarkGarcia so that means only popular for a short time ? Do you think it will become as big as C++ or Java in the future?
 
...
 
Jul 6 '14 at 18:58, by Borgleader
@AaronKyleKilleen Public service announcement
 
@TheArtist So. You've been served with the definitions. Then you inanely ask about that. And you go on to pre-suppose the exact opposite in another inane followup question.
Good job.
 
@TheArtist From a complete outsider's point of view, Swift sounds like Objective-C sounds like "Apple-only." Turn-off. I'll never take it seriously for myself unless its PR really makes it seem like it's universal, and then some
 
yup
 
12:27 AM
@sehe Did you take a wrong turn at Albuquerque while going to bed? ;)
 
Bij Hoevelaken, actually
:D
And yes.
Night all
 
Jul 2 at 23:16, by sehe
Oh shit. Wrong turn. Bed is the other way... :S
 
lol. I didn't remember that
 
@nabijaczleweli exactly what i was referring to
nice find
 
@VermillionAzure Linux ^^^^ is not Apple
 
12:29 AM
@Borgleader interesting
 
Ahh my birthday is in 10 days.
 
@MarkGarcia wth o.o
i changed my avatar a few days ago
 
I haven't been here a few days ago.
 
@Borgleader Oh I just noticed.
I haven't been on in two days.
 
2 days ago, by Borgleader
@StackedCrooked Ctrl+F5 for you sir.
^ tis the time i changed it
 
12:31 AM
it seems familiar
 
@TheArtist still not impressed
 
2 days ago, by StackedCrooked
Currently at episode 76 of my HxH rewatch.
 
I have no reason to learn it therefore I will not
 
I guess it's HxH?
 
@AlexM. Killua Zoldyck yes
 
12:32 AM
@TheArtist Interesting that they decided to leave Windows out.
4
 
@Nican they r rivals :P
 
@TheArtist (except the time when M$ is developing Office for Mac)
 
@Nican Confirm whoosh on @TheArtist?
 
@MarkGarcia deep nod
 
@TheArtist He is the Lounge's Sherlock Homes.
5
 
12:44 AM
@VermillionAzure What was the reason you learned C++
 
@khajvah Hm?
Oh.
 
exactly
 
I started learning C++ because I wanted to make video games.
Naive. I know. I'll probably never end up really doing it.
It's been very helpful trying to learn, though. My major has gotten easier.
 
today I realized that my degree is in computational science and not computer science in general
universities are full of shit
I want to learn theoretical computer science
 
:24431157 lol Delphi
 
12:48 AM
but I won't because I don't want to starve
 
@khajvah #EE/CSmasterrace
 
I will become another office rat
2
 
lol, chat never disappoints with the definitions.
 
#define chat RUN THE FUCK AWAY
 
@VermillionAzure It doesn't matter what your degree is in my country. If the name has "computer" in it, you end up being a Java(script) developer.
 
1:00 AM
@khajvah Sounds interesting
And terrible
Maybe if you try hard enough you can bind C++ to JS and rock it both
 
@khajvah Since when has Silicon valley turned into a country?
 
@Nican nice joke
 
So guys, there's no way to have a template implicit constructor from Type to MyClass, where Type is the templated type and MyClass is my class, right?
 
@VermillionAzure what I mean is, nobody does scientific research or build computers
 
Implicit constructor has to be non-templates, correct?
 
1:01 AM
@khajvah there's not too much high-yield productive pure-CS research right now, right?
Usually the research comes coupled with another field, right?
 
@VermillionAzure top universities do research I believe.
 
@khajvah Yeah, but I don't think it really gets them money right?
Or does it? mmmidk
@fredoverflow can u halp us
 
Hello, all.
 
@VermillionAzure no, it doesn't. It gets them enough to live but those researchers don't really care about the money I guess
 
1:04 AM
@nabijaczleweli What's that supposed to be?
What's the definition of implicit constructor?
Hint: it's different from "default constructor"
 
Fuck me, I can't read
Sorry
 
@Edward GET. OUT. jk hi what u here for
 
Np
 
@VermillionAzure :) That's how I usually greet people too.
Just looking for info about standards changes.
 
@Edward but srs bb wat u hear 4 man tlk 2 mi
bbplz
 
1:07 AM
Is there a repository of old proposals for C++ language changes?
 
@Edward Nobody cares about c++ in this chat room
 
@Edward Why not look at isocpp
 
@VermillionAzure I've looked at both isocpp and github.com/cplusplus but haven't been able to locate the info I'm seeking. Maybe it's too old.
 
1:10 AM
@Edward why old data?
 
@Edward Which one in particular?
 
Trying to figure out an answer to this question
 
@Edward github.com/cplusplus/draft this has everything
 
@nabijaczleweli which makes it pain in the ass to find somehting particular
 
There seems to be some concern that it's an opinion-based question, even though what I'm looking for is historical documentation.
 
1:12 AM
you are better of posting a question in SO, mate
 
@khajvah Er, I did.
 
@nabijaczleweli See
 
@Jefffrey Note that the following works: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/266d8881049b099b
Implicit ctors can be templated (why not)
 
1:27 AM
@nabijaczleweli So
What is Type2 if not instantiated or explicitly given?
 
@Edward Does Ben Voigt's answer not satisfy you?
 
@Borgleader It doesn't really address the question, it seems to me.
Conforming C90 compilers could insist on the existence of a return 0 but conforming C99 compilers must supply it if it's not explicitly written.
Somebody had to have presented a reason for such a change, but I can't find any documentation of it.
 
1:47 AM
@Edward Oh.
Can I ask why you're looking for it? Writing a book?
 
@VermillionAzure It came up in conversation with another engineer. We both remembered the time before the change and the time after, but neither of us knew why the change had been made.
 
@Edward Oh I see.
It's mostly a QoL change though, right?
 
@VermillionAzure Maybe. Without knowing the rationale of those who originally proposed the change, I don't know that I can say what the purpose originally was. I want to know what problem they were attempting to solve.
 
@Edward But it's just implicit return 0 right? Oh.
 
2:52 AM
Also yay my make tutorial seems to be okay
 
3:14 AM
@VermillionAzure Linkpls.
 
4:16 AM
Hi.
Why am I awake.
I should be sleeping.
Woah @ScottW did you see that?
VermillionAzure just went off the thing.
He was seen 15m ago.
Maybe that's the timeout.
For science!
Anyway, I have to sleep, since I have class tomorrow. 15 minutes from now, check if I fly off the list, since my PC will definitely be off.
 
5:06 AM
So... Pluto and Charon are tidally locked bodies in almost exact circular orbits. Whose gonna build a space elevator to connect them?
 
Have any of you gambled at a Casino :) What was ur experience
@Nican Hell yeah :D
 
 
1 hour later…
6:28 AM
Is TheArtist khajvah?
 
@sehe Are you asking if He's TheArtist formally known as Khajvah?
 
I'm not asking. Just sniffing up a common fascination with gambling that might not be he healthy
 
gambling it self isn't a problem... where's this unhealthy fascination you see?
 
6:49 AM
You guys, Equestria Girls is making me develop a fetish for human women. Has this happened to anyone else?
 
7:00 AM
Jun 2 at 6:42, by sehe
@khajvah you need to do more statistics. Maybe on average you'll develop the right intuition
 
oh dear yes... quite the problem
 
Even a pyrate sees that
 
going to casino with a bit of disposable money and seeing what happens is one thing, thinking about what's the best way to earn money is a problem.
His logic is also flawed
 
> that he does have potentially good topics, including (...) However, all are ruined by his undeniable rudeness, calling people, and I quote: shmucks, Stalinist's, liberals (derogatorily), fools, morons, evil, dummies, and losers to only name a few.
> All I have to do is say one thing

You are a stalinist and afraid of the truth

grow up
 
Xeo
I wonder why connecting Perforce through our VPN fails on the first try, but succeeds afterwards. A bit annoying.
 
What do you call invoking functions by name from a string?
 
@Rapptz ... why are you looking at r/parenting?
 
@VermillionAzure this is two things. 1) obtaining a function. 2) invoking it.
 
@thecoshman why not
 
@Rapptz just seems very odd
 
7:12 AM
whether you obtain a function value by its name or by a string value that represents it via a lookup, doesn't change the actual invocation
 
@BartekBanachewicz no, but what do you call that type of look-up by string?
something about reinterpreting data as code or something
 
@VermillionAzure a string keyed map vOv
well, with something like JS you can evaluate a string as code... is that what you mean?
 
@VermillionAzure it's a look-up by string
 
@thecoshman yes
 
that's the point. There's no inherent magic in it.
 
7:15 AM
@BartekBanachewicz uhhh can you do this in c++?
Without explicitly doing it?
 
@VermillionAzure yes, fairly easily. You just need a runtime value that has such a lookup.
however you create that value isn't relevant.
 
@BartekBanachewicz ??? Is this built into the system?
 
@VermillionAzure yes, you can map strings to lambdas. no you cannot parse a string (like you read via std::cin) and then run that code.
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz I think he's asking for an eval-like thing
 
@VermillionAzure into the what system and why should it matter?
 
7:16 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Oh, because this is how i'm solving a problem in lisp and I was wondering if C++ could do this
without using a map structure
 
C++ can do everything
 
C++ has to compile code (more or less)
 
@thecoshman hm...
 
@VermillionAzure can Lisp do it without using a list structure
 
@VermillionAzure hint: just because it's not using map as a keyword does not mean it's a map
 
7:17 AM
@BartekBanachewicz The difference is that the list IS the code.
 
also guess how Lisp does it
internally
now take that idea and apply to C++.
 
@BartekBanachewicz maps of course. But i'm talking internally vs externally here
 
yes, you're focusing on unimportant details alright
 
any way, best not spare to much thought on this, it's nonsense backwards talk from Cinch
 
Can you externally still reference C++ variables and code by string somehow like Lisp?
 
7:18 AM
no, C++ compilers don't create a runtime value for code lookup
at the very least because it would hinder optimizations
 
@VermillionAzure C++ has no simple way of taking a string and compiling it at runtime to then link to it and run it.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Is this a compiler option somewhere?
@thecoshman Don't debuggers do this though? O.O
 
@VermillionAzure no, C++ compilers don't create a runtime value for code lookup
@VermillionAzure this is not a simple way.
and a debugger isn't a compiler
 
@VermillionAzure they are not running their own code though, afaik
they are hooked into another process
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, but the symbols are there ===> runtime info, I suppose
I guess the answer is "no" then
 
7:19 AM
symbol info for debugging and reflection information are a bit similar, but also a bit different
 
@BartekBanachewicz hmmm...
 
That said, something I do want to look into more is dynamic code loading in C++. As I understand it there have been some proposals on this, but really, it would be a lot simpler to sort out with modules...
 
@thecoshman Hm... C++ JIT?
 
@thecoshman cough DLLs cough
people have been doing dynamic binary loading for ages
dynamic "code loading" is "bundling a compiler" + "dynamic binary loading"
guess which part is the impractical one
 
@BartekBanachewicz Hm...
@BartekBanachewicz But isn't that basically what a JIT is?...
Take data. Compile. Run.
 
7:22 AM
more or less, yes.
hint: JIT compilers are compilers.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, but the aspect of taking fresh code and turning into binary is a huge part of the interpreted process nowadays right? Node.js, all the web browsers, LuaJIT, etc. etc. etc.
 
HI guys, I wish to learn cpp (not as a complete beginner ). I have coded in c,perl,python, but I am basically looking for some interactive cpp tutorial like try it yourself at w3schools. I know cpp cant be compared with scripting languages. Any reference would be great..I have already tried finding it on google, I am sure you guys might understand my req better. I propose to appear for cpp interviews very soon, and they would be asking stl,boost,stc
 
@VermillionAzure no
 
@thecoshman Could be interesting, you know.
 
@VermillionAzure and?
@VermillionAzure No.
 
7:24 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Why not
@user1977867 You're probably not going to find one.
 
Why would it be? The burden of proof is on you here; assume C++ isn't interesting by default.
 
Interpreted C++ is not very popular, especially on the web.
 
and rightly so
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, do I need to prove that C++ is interesting?
 
kinda.
C++'s strength in the web revolves around NOT BEING INTERPRETED
(emphasis mine)
 
7:25 AM
@BartekBanachewicz But C++'s weakness is that it's development process can be too slow, and the building process can take even longer, right?
 
@BartekBanachewicz yes, but it's rather platform specific afaik. Like the way threads was standardised, want to look at a uniform dll system. Obviously platform specific compiling. Still, I've never done any dll
 
so you want to take its biggest strength and cripple the language from "useless, but fast" to "useless and interpreted"
 
user1804599
Guys. I'm soaking wet.
 
@BartekBanachewicz No, wouldn't JIT C++ still be fast?
 
user1804599
@user1977867 There is no good C++ tutorial.
 
user1804599
7:26 AM
You need a book:
 
user1804599
4270
Q: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

grepsedawkThis question attempts to collect the few pearls among the dozens of bad C++ books that are published every year. Unlike many other programming languages, which are often picked up on the go from tutorials found on the Internet, few are able to quickly pick up C++ without studying a well-written...

 
@VermillionAzure what about JITting itself? Why do you assume JIT compiling will be faster than offline compiling?
 
user1804599
Pentaquarks! The @LHCbExperiment at CERN discovers a new type of particle made up of 5 quarks http://cern.ch/go/7nds http://t.co/h58ookZQeE
 
@user1977867 If you're not interested in books, I recommend you quickly go through learncpp.com and start learning C++11
 
@VermillionAzure jit is not the solution
 
7:26 AM
except it will run on shitty client machines and not developer workstations which gives it a bad start since day 0
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, it could be useful for teaching and development.
 
@thecoshman "uniform DLL system" is precisely something that lies outside of C++ standard.
 
@BartekBanachewicz ... yes I know... something I want to look at resolving (maybe)
just like threads were outside of the standard
 
@VermillionAzure Have you looked at existing C++ interpreting solutions and evaluated their usefulness in teaching and development?
 
@BartekBanachewicz ofc not :P
 
7:28 AM
Or are you talking about a hypothethical nonexistent implementation that is to pop out of thin air right before us?
 
@BartekBanachewicz No, honestly. Haven't really seen too much support anywhere for them.
...Why is that?
 
I wanted to ask you that.
 
called it :P
any way, work
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz No, but JIT compilers can know things compilers can't possibly know.
 
My bet would be: because no one cares.
 
7:29 AM
@BartekBanachewicz That's not an objectively great reason to dislike something
 
user1804599
For example, they know about all subclasses and can devirtualise accordingly.
 
user1804599
With recompilation after dynamic linking, of course.
 
Oh come on, what do you expect. C++ is crap. Its development revolves about tiny perf gains and slow catching up with Java.
The community is made of people who spend hours grinding the template code to play tetris
And you're suggesting a practical and useful tool for it?
C++ is mostly left where people can't bother to learn anything else, and at those places introducing such a tool wouldn't succeed anyway
sure, it's not like that everywhere, but that's the bottom line.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz no, only one person does that.
 
user1804599
Possibly two or three, but not a significant amount.
 
7:32 AM
@rightfold Doesn't make them faster.
 
user1804599
It may make the resulting programs faster.
 
not a selling point in the web
 
Bartek stop shitposting
2
 
user1804599
lol web
 
@Rapptz why don't we stop global warming, famine and wars while we're at it
 
user1804599
7:39 AM
what is famine?
 
user1804599
Noun: Wikipedia
  1. famine (countable and uncountable, plural famines)
  2. (countable) a period of extreme shortage of food in a region
  3. famine f (plural famines)
  4. famine f (oblique plural famines, nominative singular famine, nominative plural famines)
 
user1804599
hmm
 
user1804599
Just limit your view of the world to yourself and your direct surroundings and that problem is tackled!
 
> catching up with Java
 
user1804599
Unless you're in Greece. Then you're doomed.
 
7:41 AM
You can try to make that point once Java gets templates.
 
user1804599
Java doesn't need templates to be vastly superior over C++.
 
oh god here comes "templates are awesome" wank again
 
Templates are indeed awesome.
 
if rightfold makes more sense in the discussion than you you should really rethink your position
 
Of course they'd be better with H-M, but well. You can't have everything.
(Actually you can. You just have to wait for Vapor.)
 
user1804599
7:42 AM
HM is as relevant as the lung capacity of Daisy.
 
@Griwes only about one eternity
 
user1804599
aethernity
 
Two at most.
 
user1804599
Just wait for Mill.
 
user1804599
It has lightweight threads and reified generics!
 
7:43 AM
But hey, it's not entirely vaporware, I can parse a subset of the language... :D
@rightfold lel
 
templates are awesome...
:( can i say no yet?
 
user1804599
Not awesome enough to sacrifice decent dependency management and tracing garbage collectors.
 
@Griwes HM?
 
user1804599
HM is the overrated type system.
 
In type theory and functional programming, Hindley–Milner (HM) (also known as Damas–Milner or Damas–Hindley–Milner) is a classical type system for the lambda calculus with parametric polymorphism, first described by J. Roger Hindley and later rediscovered by Robin Milner. Luis Damas contributed a close formal analysis and proof of the method in his PhD thesis. Among HM's more notable properties is completeness and its ability to deduce the most general type of a given program without the need of any type annotations or other hints supplied by the programmer. Algorithm W is a fast algorithm,...
 
7:56 AM
@BartekBanachewicz ... you're doing it again
May I suggest that "commie freaks", "noob", "punch yourself in the face" "a whopping 10 hobbyists", "POS" all could apply here too! Moar fun
 
@Griwes so... functions are types are functions?
 
Jul 10 at 12:04, by sehe
@BartekBanachewicz Stop whining.
 
> Among HM's more notable properties is completeness and its ability to deduce the most general type of a given program without the need of any type annotations or other hints supplied by the programmer.
This is probably the important part there.
 
user1804599
... which in turn results in awfully unreadable programs.
 
user1804599
Good job.
 
user1804599
7:57 AM
Type annotations or GTFO.
 
anyone good at language lawyering?
 
Xeo
nah, never. Not here.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I like how that is at odds with the notion of "catching up with Java". Without this kind of profile-guided JIT Java would not have been worth catching up with (HotSpot VM is an important thing. Remember energy bills)
@Veritas loads. But all of the regulars seem to have grown tired. For good reasons
 

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