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8:02 AM
Is -funroll-loops actually included in one of the optimization level flags -O 'till -O4?
Doesn't seem to be
I mean, who gives a fuck about program size these days
 
Embedded
 
@ParkYoung-Bae An exception - wait... is that important or something?
 
waiting for the lovely day when tomalak goes to an unconference and bump into one of his trolling victims ....
 
@Arcoth Embedded? Nooooo it's not important at all!
 
@chmod711telkitty who are you arguing with? :O
 
8:07 AM
I am whining as usual
what's the abbreviation for 'laundry' BTW
 
@Arcoth It doesn't matter unless when it does.
 
@Arcoth Yes.
 
I was being sarcastic
 
Good job
 
Im just sayin', the optimization level flags are also about space-speed tradeoffs
 
8:10 AM
nice save
 
So why not unroll small loops at compile time
 
it happens
 
funroll sounds fun
 
So what is -funroll-loops for? -funroll-all-loops is for the big ones, innit?
 
In fact loops are vectorized, which could be considered a specialized form of unrolling
 
8:11 AM
@sehe Thats partly unrolling
But yes
 
@Arcoth you say like unrolling looks automatically makes programs faster
 
@Arcoth It's the f-word. f-unroll loops!
 
user1804599
IntelliJ Haskell plugin is nice.
 
@thecoshman If the loop is big enough, it does
 
@ParkYoung-Bae fuckroll loops
 
8:12 AM
@Arcoth Yeah well. Partly unrolling is also unrolling. Why would you care about the way in which the compiler optimizes your loop? Did your profiler tell you that your hand-written assembly is faster?
@Arcoth CPUs do! If the instructions don't fit into caches/pipelines anymore, the performance will (severely) degrade
 
Im asking because my TMP version of a batcher odd even mergesort is the second-fastest; im trying to get the loop unrolled which has a compile time number of iterations
 
@Arcoth not all ways. If it's a big loop, and you unroll its many executions, your program can bloat from sitting nicely in a bit of cached memory to having to be swapped to disk back and forth.
 
@thecoshman Good point; didn't know about that.
 
small code is generally faster
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
8:14 AM
This is very useful.
 
even if that small bit of code 'wastes' time with checks so it can be looped over, it can (as in, find out for yourself) be faster than having to swap out more specific sections of code for latter iterations.
@rightfold boo!!! (Scala?)
 
@thecoshman But couldn't you tell the CPU that since this bit of machine code has to be executed a thousand times it can just count it down? O wait thats a loop
 
@rightfold how do you read haskell
I just can't :(
 
no matter how hard I try
I just can't read it
 
user1804599
8:16 AM
@thecoshman Haskell.
 
18 hours ago, by Cat Plus Plus
liftTup' :: (a, b) -> (Maybe a, Maybe b)
liftTup' (t, v) = (Just t, Just v)
what does that mean
what kind of arcane concepts are Maybe and Just
 
user1804599
Maybe T is like Nullable<T> in C#.
 
user1804599
Or boost::optional<T>.
 
@AlexM. Optional<T>
 
user1804599
Just is the not-null case.
 
8:18 AM
liftTup' (t, v) = (Just t, Maybe v) is not null for t and nullable for v?
 
user1804599
That's an error.
 
user1804599
Maybe is a type constructor, not a value constructor.
 
user1804599
liftTup' :: (a, b) -> (Maybe a, Maybe b) -- this is the type specification
liftTup' (t, v) = (Just t, Just v) -- this is the function body
 
@AlexM. Maybe is either Just or None
 
user1804599
Just is a function taking an a and returning a Maybe a.
 
8:20 AM
@rightfold Hopefully std::optional in a near future
 
I think optional didn't make it for C++14.
 
(looks like None is Nothing in Haskell)
 
@Arcoth clever girl
 
@rightfold I see
 
@rightfold :O Traitor!!!
 
8:21 AM
@StackedCrooked Many in the committee find it... optional.
 
he he
 
Erlang > Haskell
 
Also, Herb's being so much of a hypocrite for suggesting a standard ABI, while MSVC doesn't have a stable one. He's making ISO do the job for them.
 
@Arcoth you nailed it
@MarkGarcia whatever. as long we get one
 
user1804599
 
8:33 AM
@AlexM. this is an example where RankNTypes are needed
Also std::optional can be viewed as vastly inferior Maybe, yes.
 
@rightfold fucking banner style
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Why would it be needed there?
 
@AlexM. it's really easy
@rightfold oh, in the more generic code I've posted
this was actually Cat's illustrative response
 
user1804599
It would be needed if you had liftTup' f (t, v) = (f t, f v).
 
@sehe At least Herb's trying to make progress in the right direction
 
8:35 AM
@rightfold yep
@thecoshman why now (interested in your argumentation)
@rightfold ew explicit TH $()
 
user1804599
Explicit is better than implicit.
 
user1804599
It's a pity the implicit form is allowed.
 
@rightfold that's a slippery slope
 
user1804599
I hope you try to walk it.
 
for each case you have to balance being explicit
 
user1804599
8:38 AM
And this one is about the most unimportant ever.
 
I think in this case adding the braces is making it less readable for people who don't use them regularly, which would be the majority of code using it I've seen
@rightfold World's not gonna collapse if you write it that way :V
so what.
 
user1804599
Neither does it if I write it with $().
 
I personally think that TH is convoluted enough that adding additional syntax to it doesn't help
and again that appears to be the view shared by most people
 
user1804599
Use of TH should be as explicit as possible.
 
Meaningful names should be enforced by the compiler.
 
user1804599
8:41 AM
For pretty much the same reason macro expansion should've been explicit in CPP.
 
0
A: std::pair vs Array

rubenvbYou have three choices, and the right one depends on what the two int represent. using mymap = std::map<int, std::array<int, 2>; using mymap = std::map<int, std::pair<int, int>>; The preferred option for readable code using this construct: struct somethingmeaningful { int meaningful1; int mean...

 
@rightfold that looks like a class
 
@rubenvb This is the precise reason there is no Pair in Java, though
 
@rubenvb Unclosed <.
 
user1804599
@AlexM. It's like immutable struct.
 
user1804599
8:43 AM
makeLenses generates getters and setters.
 
> well come on now i don't want to spend another second on this damn chatroom than i need to
 
user1804599
x ^. g applies getter g to x
 
Brilliant
 
@BartekBanachewicz If you want a balanced reasoned argument, you should probably wait for me to learn Haskell too.
 
@MarkGarcia Thanks. Fixed.
 
8:44 AM
> if I have to implement cookie in dot net and user disables the cookie how can we achieve session management in cookies disable system
 
@ParkYoung-Bae get a jar
 
Bitch fight be brilliant. You guys never fail to attract only the best of the Internet :-)
 
@thecoshman Java?
 
@MarkGarcia sure, plenty of buzzwords
 
The guy anonymized himself after.
That's lame.
 
8:48 AM
morning
 
afternoon
 
@MarkGarcia Not really. His proposal explicitly wants to include vendors who can make ABI-breaking changes. He just wants to separate the ABI-critical classes that shouldn't change from the rest.
 
god damnit when the whole building starts using the internet mine slows down to a crawl
 
Good morning
 
@AlexM. Get off cable and use (V)DSL(2) :-P
 
8:52 AM
meh
fibre ftl
 
@rubenvb I have no idea what that means
the internet is the only complaint I have regarding the new job
I can't fucking youtube after 10 am
and not all of the music I like is on soundcloud
 
maybe it's done on purpose ...
 
it can't be, since the speed depends on how everyone uses the internet
 
@AlexM. cable congests with user count. VDSL2 does not have that problem (as much)
 
depends on the ISP ...
 
8:55 AM
@rubenvb I find it hard to believe this building doesn't use efficient stuff, but then again, anything is possible
 
@chmod711telkitty Well, yeah. But in the end they all oversell anyways.
 
there's like 500 people here, so maybe it's just the count causing issues
 
@AlexM. could just be a network issue...
 
@AlexM. well, it all really depends though, so just ignore what I said and continue complaining. There really is nothing I can do to help you :-p
 
@thecoshman if so, it's been around since I joined
1+ weeks
 
8:57 AM
@thecoshman OIC
 
I should probably just bring an external hard drive with music from home anyway
the quality is better than youtube
 
^that
 
@BartekBanachewicz though I do no that Erlang is a language actually used in production, whilst Haskell is academic wankery... though I'm not sure which thing is better...
 
@AlexM. you really shouldn't start learning Haskell from that example. Lenses aren't a basic concept.
@thecoshman Haskell is a language used in production. I have no idea what you mean.
 
user1804599
joinAnd :: [String] -> String
joinAnd [] = ""
joinAnd (s : []) = s
joinAnd (s : s' : []) = s ++ " and " ++ s'
joinAnd (s : ss) = s ++ ", " ++ joinAnd ss
 
user1804599
8:58 AM
Can I make this shorter?
 
intercalate?
 
user1804599
intercalate ", " (init ss) ++ " and " ++ (last ss)
 
@BartekBanachewicz nooo... really? where?
 
@StackedCrooked -Weverything is spamming with C++98 compatibility warnings.
 
@thecoshman at Facebook for example.
 
user1804599
9:00 AM
But that doesn't match the [s] and [] cases. Lemme try.
 
@BartekBanachewicz really? I know they use an Erlang db...
 
@rightfold oh. hmm.
 
personally I play youtube music on my phone sometimes, 2GB per mouth seems to last a long time ...
 
@MarkGarcia don't use it then..?
 
9:01 AM
@rightfold Case 2 and 3 are redundant I think.
 
user1804599
joinAnd :: [String] -> String
joinAnd [] = ""
joinAnd [s] = s
joinAnd ss = intercalate ", " (init ss) ++ " and " ++ (last ss)
 
user1804599
This works.
 
@StackedCrooked It's set when I open Coliru... maybe it's some other link I've edited.
 
@MarkGarcia you can restore the default command
 
@BartekBanachewicz well I'll be
Still, Erlang > Haskell :P
 
9:03 AM
@StackedCrooked Ah yes, I forgot. Thanks!
 
user1804599
Erlang and Haskell have totally different use cases.
 
user1804599
It's like comparing JavaScript to VHDL.
 
yeah, none and none is so different
 
user1804599
They're more widely used than Wide is.
 
hm
I'm not sure if that's really true per hour of development time.
 
9:05 AM
@rightfold I don't see why that stops me making stupid assertions about there greatness
 
There are two classes/objects, object a, an instance of class A & object b of an instance of class B. If I call a function b.func() from object a using a 2nd thread, then b calls another function c in a.func2, then a.func2 would be executed in the 2nd thread right?
 
user1804599
Also fuck intercalate, init and last only working on lists.
 
¬_¬ you know it's going to be a good day when you get three reminders for meetings, at the same time.
 
I have been dealing with shitty people all day long nowadays, your life couldn't possibly be worse than mine @ moment
 
user1804599
base is such a horrible library.
 
9:18 AM
ಠ_ಠ never use google to check the spelling of 'secretary' at work
14
 
or to look for C strings
 
user1804599
Or type D, I, L, return in the address bar to go to dilbert.com instead of dildo-generator.com.
 
oh rightfold
 
@thecoshman I'll do it
hotness overload
secretaries are the best thing, after maids
 
user1804599
@AlexM. ( Í¡° ͜ʖ Í¡°)
 
9:23 AM
I have this feeling that a lot of people took my willingness to be nice as a sign of weakness. Wait until I release my full dose of nastiness! Because you made me, you trashy piece of garbage!
3
P.A. > secretary // in the scale of hotness
 
Pennsylvania?
 
Personal Assistant.
 
so like a private secretary?
 
Sure
 
the only assistants I can get are virtual :(
but if I mess with the CPU cooling, those can be hot too
 
inbin4
 
"It looks like you're trying to breathe. Want some tips?"
 
Main site down?
 
works for me
 
Some / Most of these "newbie" questions are better served when asked in chat rooms as they ask for quick references and simple reviews that includes a bug to be found. It's a shame that there is an entry reputation limit for using the chat room as a privilege. — Unihedron 2 hours ago
uh oh
 
9:31 AM
Me too.
 
@chmod711telkitty I think @ moment is a rather optimistic addition there
@AlexM. Arg. Maybe a reboot will help.
Mmm. Clipboard fail too. Maybe my screenshot script also failed to upload to imgur
 
Xeo
@Rapptz ugh
 
user1804599
> UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing
 
@thecoshman protip: saying random things might make people inquire you about them
@rightfold doing stupid things also prevents from doing work
 
@StackedCrooked Coliru is awesome!
 
9:37 AM
that's the fuckt.
btw did @EdwardBird quit?
his profile is kind of empty
 
he ragequit yes
 
cool
we can draw a star
 
@Arcoth Thanks :)
 
here's to making dumbfucks quit
I actually think that making those people sad enough to quit is our job here.
 
@AlexM. lol
I thought he was on his way to Nottingham by now.
There are trains in the early morning.
 
9:44 AM
lol
Let's hope not. He was a pro barfighter.
 
I'd guess the only tickets for him are for Nothingham
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah and it would be good if they would also quit writing C++
 
it would be best if they ceased their pathetic existence
but then again let's don't take it too far
 
@AlexM. I was going to make a similar pun
 
9:46 AM
like he should be able to come back as a wiser person.
 
@BartekBanachewicz nah it's not really nesessary
 
I don't think killing someone enables him to resurrect smarter.
 
@BartekBanachewicz That sounds like something he'd say, you know?
 
55 secs ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
but then again let's don't take it too far
 
they can grow flowers or do something useful
 
9:47 AM
@BartekBanachewicz He never took it far enough to actually punch someone, but he did make a fool of himself by saying it.
 
@Abyx I sort of agree with this
 
If one day you'll make me sad enough to quit programming I'll become a barista and serve coffee to people.
 
I'll be a chef!
 
forced labor towards the benefit of those who prefer a peaceful life is the best punishment for those who don't
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think punching someone and talking someone into suicide are two different things.
With the latter actually being more dangerous.
 
9:49 AM
No shit
 
@BartekBanachewicz not really. it not like they can talk you to suicide back
I'd say it's quite safe
 
@Abyx For the other person he meant
 
Do you guys know any song that sounds similar to this?
 
@ParkYoung-Bae other person? who cares about that looser
 
It's been bugging me
 
9:51 AM
@Abyx People who are actually intelligent and who realize that the life of a moron is still a life
 
@ParkYoung-Bae welp life of a fish is also a life. not like it ever stopped fishers
 
@Abyx Nice fallacy
No wonder you're russian
<derail thread attempt>
 
@Rapptz Oh my, it's been a long time since I listened to that.
 
lol me too
the chords of the chorus reminded me of something else
can't put my fingers on it
good song btw
 
@ParkYoung-Bae racist!
 
9:57 AM
@Rapptz Not exactly the same, but some Dire Straits songs might fit you
and this particular RHCP song is really almost like the beatles.
@Rapptz ah you mean something very similar that you know. then ^
 
Rynamic Host Configuration Protocol
 
@BartekBanachewicz So far away from it. You are so far away from it.
 
@BartekBanachewicz it's not random, it's not random at all. Haskell was being discussed, it's a functional language, so too is Erlang, I know of both, I know saying something like that would twist your nips, I like winding people you up, so I said it. If anything, it would be stupid to not expect it be said.
@ParkYoung-Bae you'd make a terrible Navi'
 
YouTube is broken for me.
 
s/ for me//
 
10:02 AM
@Mysticial fix it!
 
Also @Mysticial unlink my G+ account!
 
what's the reasoning behind stuff like std::queue not returning the popped element when performing pop?
so you could do something like T t = queue.pop(); //std::queue<T>
 
@sehe I am very adpative, I think my skin will grow very thick very fast when needed
 
the reference says container.pop_front doesn't throw so I'm guessing popping on an empty container is UB?
 
10:07 AM
yes
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :)
 
I'm pretty sure the reason it doesn't throw is for performance reasons in the original STL.
 
@Rapptz then I guess I've sort of found the answer
but still
 
@AlexM. Exception safety.
 
yeah
it makes sense now
 
10:11 AM
@thecoshman Dammit, you were doing so well in avoiding getting to know that Haskell is actually used outside of academia! Now you'll have to actually lie next time, instead of simply stating something wrong. What a pity. Don't ruin it for the puppy!
 
Using an open proxy in the US to reach SO/Chat now. I feel like I'm Chinese, a little now
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah ah ah, Facebook turns out to be an academic institution, ergo, still only used for academic wankery <close eye, fingers in ears, close other eye>
 
1
Q: String literal with dependent type — impossible?

n.m.Is it possible to define a user-defined string literal conversion operator such that the type of its result depends on the value of its string input? It is easy with user-defined integer and floating point literals because they admit literal operator templates, and the actual characters of the l...

dis cool
 
lol dependent typing in C++
sounds like a glitch in the matrix
 
lol Bartek not reading.
Sounds like a gl-- no, wait, sounds like normal.
 
10:18 AM
yeah it's not really dependent typing
 
Xeo
C++ already has dependent typing - non-type template parameters.
 
oh look new version of Idris released chirp chirp
@Xeo I doon't think that's it.
 
@Xeo Non-type template parameters are just like types that templates treat specially.
data Zero
data Succ a
type One = Succ Zero
...
Effectively the same as this in Haskell.
 
there's no real difference between, say, N<4> and N_4
 
10:22 AM
Except that support for those sucks in Haskell
 
~Liquid Haskell~
 
Yep, it has been linked to me more than once.
 
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh interesting
I wonder if it has any uses.
 
10:23 AM
I've tried to implement something like Matrix M N with that. Almost killed myself. Went to #haskell to ask if it was possible. Not possible. Moving on.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Pretty much no.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Dunno, everytime I read something about dependent typing, lists-with-size-in-type are used as an example.
 
So now, most of matrix libraries just implement MatNxM, which is terrible.
 
@Xeo int main(int argc, char* argv[argc]) This kind of list with size in type.
 
I have a game idea
I wonder what should I write it in
 
Xeo
10:25 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes hm
 
candidates are Python, Haskell, Erlang and Lua
 
not haskell
 
Xeo
I still don't get how dependent typing works without dynamic typing
 
Wait, Python is hip?
 
requirements: postgresql binding and web framework
 
10:26 AM
@Xeo wat
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "hip" is not a requirement
 
Xeo
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@Xeo int main(int argc, char* argv[argc]) This kind of list with size in type.
What's the type of argv here?
 
the game is supposed to resemble OGame
 
char*[argc]
:>
 
REST api is acceptable to issue commands
 
10:27 AM
@Xeo If you don't add limitations it makes your type system undecidable.
 
@Xeo That's not dependent typing AFAIK. Nor it is valid C or C++ syntax.
 
@Jefffrey C VLA.
 
extension, no?
 
Xeo
@Jefffrey That is exactly what Robot said is "dependent typing"
 
10:28 AM
No, it's not a VLA.
 
not in C.
 
VLAs can't be arguments.
It can be valid syntax, though.
 
@Jefffrey Haskell could be a nice idea. One of the potential problems is dynamic server code reloading (at least Lua and Erlang can do it effortlessly).
 
Xeo
fuck 40minute long builds :<
 
char* argv[static argc]?
nah
 
10:30 AM
char* argv[ments]
 
caesar stahp
 
hm
C also has char* argv[const]
 
@Xeo You can encode more complex relationships, though.
increment(int n) -> int{==n+1} (invented syntax should be obvious enough)
 
@user98235 Yeah, sorry I didn't realize that you didn't already know C++. My suggestion would be try and learn some C from the web. Try cplusplus.com 's tutorial. — user3728501 2 days ago
^ Edward Bird
 
¬_¬ yeah, I just don't give a crap about your petty squables
 
10:38 AM
another gem from another person:
i use visual studio 2008 91605-270-4713616-60082 — user3246945 9 hours ago
 
is that his licence key?
 
@Puppy mine now :P
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I though you were joking
 
@sehe No the point is that that character is of that comedic style. It's faux-stupidity. Maybe you'd have to be a fan of Newswipe to "get it"
@Jefffrey I wasn't
Thought I'd check with his profile to see what funny quotes I may be able to find today, and that one stood out like a sore thumb.
I don't even know where to begin with the suggestion to "try and learn" C from cplusplus.com
 
10:40 AM
Anyway, that's all my notifications and whatnot cleared so no more funny quotes for now
 
just talked with my boss
 
did he fire you
 
I gotta lay down my formal leave papers :F
 
@Xeo that's a long long build
 
10:40 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'm leaving.
 
@BartekBanachewicz bullets leave guns
 
(after you fire the bullets from the guns)
 
no really
 
(what the fuck)
 
10:41 AM
@BartekBanachewicz why?
 
@thecoshman because I'm moving to a startup
 
so anyway what's going on why is this a bad thing
or is it just like a "woah shit is getting real" thing?
 
@BartekBanachewicz inb4 my startup failed an now I need to grovel for a job again
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit that
@thecoshman that can always happen yes.
 
nah, I just hack it. You stay on that list
 
10:42 AM
wait what list
 
@BartekBanachewicz alright. endorphins and adrenaline, huh?
 
@BartekBanachewicz plonk
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit kind of
 
the Lounge is behind you, Bartek
@thecoshman you used to be fun
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit aww. Well for good or bad this new job is gonna be hell of a ride.
I need this.
 
10:44 AM
watcha doing? making tea?
 
@thecoshman In the new job?
 
@BartekBanachewicz ¬_¬
 
maybe it's because I didn't have my coffee yet but you're not making much sense today
 
¬_¬
 

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