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11:00 PM
Tempted to ask "Are you secretly a PHP programmer?" in the comments
 
@Rapptz it's more "if you want to make X, don't make tiny bit Y when you can use an existing one that does what you need and leave you to just focus on making a really good X"
 
@StackedCrooked no one does
 
isn't there anything worth learning nowadays
 
First thread-mindedness must be changed into task-minded-ness.
 
11:00 PM
@Rapptz That reminds me a bit of that quote that once appeared here - something like "telling a programmer there's already a library that does X is like telling a songwriter there's already a song about love"
 
suckage.
 
@BartekBanachewicz ways to kill yourself?
 
user1804599
Everyone should drive a diesel with an automatic gearbox.
 
user1804599
Preferably something like Hummer or Jeep.
 
well there's an option to take a hit at OpenGL again to become a full pro
 
11:01 PM
@BartekBanachewicz There's so much stuff
 
@Rapptz In this case it's "Don't make X unless you have enough resources to compete with either Unreal, Unity or CryEngine".
 
@AndyProwl Yeah, similar to that.
 
@AndyProwl yeah but like a fraction of it is useful or interesting (and even the smaller part both)
 
@rightfold Wow 159 liters of oil only costs $99,43.
 
One last question. If I create two threads "myThread" how do I join them to main? Will myThread.join() join both of them? — deanresin 2 mins ago
SIGHER
 
11:02 PM
@BartekBanachewicz It's still a huge lot IMO. Not necessarily programming though
 
I'm giving up. You don't read. So you don't learn. no myThread.join() will (obviously) not join more than 1 thread. When you do int x = 3; x = 5; how many integers do you multiply when you write x*2? Right. One. Just the last assigned value of course. Pick up a good book, slow down. And keep learning. Thank you. — sehe 10 secs ago
 
@EtiennedeMartel orrrrrrrrrr "Make X because A, B, and C don't do X"
 
@rightfold autos suck
 
@Rapptz They all do X, that's the thing.
 
when is the next game jam
i want next game jam
 
11:02 PM
once added truck diesel to my suv (because it 2c cheaper & because I just want to try it out - my friends say they add truck diesel to their suv because they are the same), the cashier @ petrol station stared at me, probably think I am a cheapstake :'(
 
just not fucking 24h really
 
@EtiennedeMartel Nah. Unity's 2D tools suck, CryEngine is a 3D game engine, and Unreal is tailored towards 3D too. There will always be an X to do and improve upon. 2D game engine is already an example.
 
@AndyProwl yeah well.
 
Well of course if your purpose is to compete with that, you should rather not try
but I don't think competing with X is the only reason for trying to rewrite X
 
they are right, truck diesel is just the same as car diesel
 
11:03 PM
If you're making an engine these days, you're reinventing the wheel.
 
There are a lot of reasons to do something. Saying "Don't make an engine" as an absolute is shit
 
thing is what is learned from learning the internals of engines
 
@Rapptz sure, but you are near enough never going to one man half of what one of those have on offer.
 
> If I create two threads "myThread"
 
sure you get to learn how the game engine works
which is becoming a useless knowledge
 
11:04 PM
@Rapptz In the time it takes you to make 2D tools, Unity will have fixed their issues with that.
 
@StackedCrooked And he keeps persevering in his misconception no matter how harshly I point it out.
 
@Rapptz it's not "Don't make an engine", it's "Don't make a game engine when you want to make a game." You need a SERIOUSLY good reason to do that.
 
or a shitload of new 2D engines will spawn
 
@EtiennedeMartel Just like those GUI tools they promised eons ago.
 
11:04 PM
@BartekBanachewicz This is unconditional and has been happening since the 80s
 
Unity's progress isn't exactly a shining example.
 
I want an area of development which I won't regret in 10 years.
 
@Rapptz I thought they had that in Unity 5.
 
It was promised in Unity 4 back in Unity 3.
They're probably never coming for all I know.
 
Builtin GUI in Unity is meh
 
11:05 PM
@BartekBanachewicz You want a game console that stopped evolving 10 years ago, then
 
Not to mention Unity runs on ancient mono last I checked.
 
@sehe nah I mean what should I learn that will still be valuable in 10 years from now
 
Anyway, I'm digressing but making an engine isn't inherently bad.
 
I'd learn physics and maths if I had time
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz stuff with massive concurrency.
 
11:06 PM
If you don't have anything to fix, then don't make one.
 
Yeah maths is a good thing
 
that's always gonna be valuable
 
I could relearn mathematical analysis. And learn type theory.
and relearn physics
altough that won't get me a job ever.
 
user1804599
How do you learn physics and mathematics?
 
@deanresin If you have two kids "Johnnie" and you kill "Johnnie" will both of them die? — StackedCrooked 48 secs ago
 
11:07 PM
layout(rgba32f, binding = 3) readonly highp uniform image2D myImage;
 
@rightfold By studying them and applying them, like everything
Also I love this guy's posts on maths
 
user1804599
I was expecting something more concrete. :P
 
I bought the book even if all the material is online and free
 
@rightfold I've no idea what more concrete could be said. Open a book, read a chapter, do exercises.
Ask questions and find answers for them.
 
user1804599
Anything involving geometry is too difficult for me. :P
 
11:08 PM
@StackedCrooked Well. The analogy is broken, because the kids would actually have the same name. The threads have no common feature. They just happen to have been assigned to the same thread variable once (but never at the same time). So, this is more like "If you kill a boy, will all living boys that have ever been in the same house as that boy also be killed"? — sehe 14 secs ago
 
@rightfold you lack experience
 
Geometry is fascinating
 
geometry is easy
 
And yes the advanced stuff is crazy, I wish I could understand that
 
user1804599
I like set theory.
 
11:09 PM
category theory is great
 
@BartekBanachewicz non-euclidean geometries are not easy at all
 
eh, you know, I should go to sleep
I'll rewrite my tesselation sample code from yesterday to haskell
 
and it all connects to relativity theory and gravitation and stuff... man there's so much stuff to learn and it's been there for ages
and I have no fucking idea how those old things work
 
user1804599
I always get puzzled when I need to do calculations.
 
so if I had the time, I'd definitely study those things. It's fascinating
 
11:10 PM
@AndyProwl too bad it's not related to my work. Well, at least I can read about tesselation shaders at work so that's something.
@AndyProwl +1
 
@rightfold we always get puzzled when you pull it off
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, same here. Can't make a living out of those things
 
user1804599
@sehe when I pull what off?
 
Or well you can
but it didn't happen for me
 
@rightfold :) the blinders maybe
 
11:11 PM
I don't think Riemannian/differential geometry is that interesting
 
user1804599
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah Mr Veteran.
 
@AndyProwl Do you know differential equations and calculus?
 
@StackedCrooked lol, I'm not particularly good either
 
@Rapptz Why not? Our universe is basically a non-Euclidean geometry
 
11:12 PM
@Rapptz heh basics
okey I'm shutting up now.
good night folks.
 
>basics
 
@StackedCrooked that comment deserves an upvote :D I worked hard to stretch that analogy far enough that it would somewhat match the OP's misconception :)
 
@Rapptz Roughly. I did know it well back in my uni days, now most of those notions are gone
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz I cannot think of a functor that is not an endofunctor, though.
 
Just start there then
 
11:13 PM
@sehe ok ok
 
it's not that complex
 
@StackedCrooked xD
 
Yea. But it's not even that fascinating
 
I think you're giving general relativity more complexity than its worth
 
I only recently learned about the existence of calculus.
 
11:14 PM
@Rapptz Perhaps you forgot how hard it was to get to the top of the mountain
 
@AndyProwl It's not ancient, they are (in terms of how old mathematics is) fairly new.
 
However, we I had a course called "analyse" at university, maybe that is calculus.
 
@Rapptz "in terms of how old mathematics is", yes
 
@AndyProwl me: "Just start here" you: "But that's not fascinating"
 
@StackedCrooked yes
 
11:16 PM
Ah.
I wasn't very good at that.
 
@Rapptz Yeah I know you have to train scales before playing sonatas
 
also, I disagree
 
I only remember one definition from the introduction chapter:
 
I'm just not excited about that
 
Een relatie tussen A en B is een deelverzameling van het cartesiaans product van A en B.
 
11:17 PM
I think calculus and differential equations are interesting and fascinating
 
I thought it was cool that they managed to come up with a definition for a seemingly vague term like "relation".
 
the amount of applications that are capable with knowledge of these two subjects is immense
 
Well all maths is in fact. Set theory is fascinating too. But if there's something that attracts me, that's general relativity and non-euclidean geometry
(ok the former is physics)
 
physics is just math
 
kind of
 
11:19 PM
100%
 
In physics class I got confused when they said: "this value is small so you can replace it with zero".
 
lim x -> infinity of 1/x is 0
so it makes sense
 
@Rapptz I don't think a mathematician would agree
 
I've studied math all my life and I can assure you that even physicists here know that physics is just math.
this comes to mind too:
 
Math is the language used to express physics.
Or so I vaguely remember from a Feynman video.
 
11:23 PM
 
@Griwes Nice.
 
user1804599
You know.
 
I know.
 
user1804599
When people talk about monads as a way of representing computations it’s kinda pointless since “1 + 2” is also really a computation but no monads are involved.
 
user1804599
How about “sequential computation?”
 
11:24 PM
you mean as a replacement for the "monad" term?
 
Xeo
@rightfold that's not how 'computation' is defined by those people, IIRC
 
Perhaps one could say that monads are a generalization of computations, or an abstraction over computations
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Well, what they abstract.
 
But they do not "represent" computations
 
Monads are potatoes
3
 
11:25 PM
Cat spoke
 
@CatPlusPlus Ah, now I finally get modads.
 
Xeo
Monads are not donuts. I want a donut now.
 
user1804599
BURRITOS
 
Your mom is a burrito
3
 
Now I feel hungry.
@CatPlusPlus Now I lost my appetite.
 
11:26 PM
I'm full.
 
The conversation is quickly falling down the scale of purity
 
@CatPlusPlus When did monads return potatoes?
 
multiplicative degradation
 
user1804599
7
Q: Haskell: Computation "in a monad" -- meaning?

gwidemanIn reading about monads, I keep seeing phrases like "computations in the Xyz monad". What does it mean for a computation to be "in" a certain monad? I think I have a fair grasp on what monads are about: allowing computations to produce outputs that are usually of some expected type, but can alt...

 
user1804599
Maybe this contains what I am looking for.
 
user1804599
11:27 PM
But I think it’s more about the “in” part than about the “computation” part.
 
Is there any relation between with the common meaning of the word "monad" (traveller)
 
Xeo
I don't think so
Monad is derived from 'monoid', IIRC
 
It's "nomad"
 
@StackedCrooked std::permutation( "nomad" )
 
@CatPlusPlus lol, I'm stupid
 
11:33 PM
Please, please, please let us decide if you are stupid or not. For now, all you've made is a mistake, not even a blunder.
 
yeah but we already know he's stupid :P
 
Xeo
oh look, the puppy's alive
 
for now
 
I came to a realization. It's so obvious that it's silly, but I never thought about it before. For some reason I always thought about the universe about the stuff beyond Pluto. I always thought horizontally. But there is universe above us and below us too.
So aliens could live below us.
Heh.
 
actually, it's not that obvious
the galaxy is often depicted as a circle rather than a sphere and for good reason
most of the solar systems in it are roughly in a plane, much like the plane of our solar system.
I think that even the galactic groups and stuff take place mostly on a plane (not the same plane)
it's not a 3D cloud where stars are evenly spaced, they're mostly in a flat disc of a certain thickness.
 
Xeo
11:39 PM
just because the solar systems are aligned in a plane doesn't mean the plane of our solar system is aligned to that galactic plane
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl how about “computation builder?”
 
user1804599
Although I don’t see how that would be any different from a bunch of let-bindings, full stops and dollar signs.
 
user1804599
More general, perhaps.
 
@Xeo Not sure if it is.
 
@DeadMG So you think the universe is more likely to be a plane than a sphere. But why would the big bang result in a plane and not sphere?
 
user1804599
11:41 PM
It is a 4D plane!
 
why is our solar system mostly in a plane?
why is our galaxy mostly in a plane?
perhaps the field lines of some subatomic force simply line up that way.
 
And now I realize that I never questioned why all planets are horizontally aligned. Why is no planet circling the sun "vertically"?
 
@rightfold I'm not really an expert so take this as the fuzzy opinion of someone who read stuff about it, but I think "computation" is what is being generalized. The essence is something more abstract than computation
 
Xeo
@DeadMG rotation
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl Makes sense.
 
11:42 PM
@StackedCrooked They do a little, but not very much in comparison.
 
user1804599
Without monads, you cannot do anything beyond computing stuff. (Concretely.)
 
also, in this case, "vertical" is just relative to the Earth's motion, of course.
 
user1804599
Monads can give you the illusion of mutable state as well as other things, which are high-level abstractions.
 
@DeadMG yeah, hence my quotes
OMG now I realized how horizontal is so relative
Dammit.
 
@rightfold I really like this article as for what kind of things monads generalize
 
user1804599
11:44 PM
Man.
 
Perhaps you've read it, it was posted here several times
 
user1804599
Drinking cold OJ after eating Potter’s is so nice.
 
Xeo
@rightfold you can do everything without monads, just not so encapsulated
 
user1804599
@Xeo It’s at a lower level. (Hence “concretely.”)
 
The universe is by careful inspection extremely homogenous. no x y nor z is preferred.
 
11:46 PM
all this talk about the universe being a plane got me thinking
 
@AlexM. what in particular?
 
what kind of map editor was used to make the universe
6
 
Xeo
...
way to kill the conversation
 
@AlexM. The one used for half life 3, why do you ask?
 
gamer
 
user1804599
11:47 PM
@AlexM. Minecraft.
 
I had my money on SC2's editor but :(
 
user1804599
God plays Minecraft in creative mode, and we are zombies.
 
@AlexM. Universe Creator Pro
 
wouldn't it be interesting for this alien civilization to drop by someday and say stuff like
 
user1804599
@Xeo Monads give you the illusion that you don’t do these things. So yeah encapsulation.
 
11:49 PM
@AndyProwl there's a talk about that article somewhere
 
"hi we were here a shitload of years ago, known as Jesus & his friends"
 
@Jefffrey Yeah I've seen it
But the talk isn't nearly as good as the article IMO
 
maybe this is just all a simulation on some super computer of a very advanced civilization
 
@AlexM. Haven't your read anything in the sci-fi genre?
 
user1804599
11:49 PM
> Why Do Monads Matter?
 
@CaptainGiraffe not really, I'm more of a fantasy guy
 
@AndyProwl Oh. Yeah, it didn't seem good
 
@Code-Guru that's my theory; dinosaurs became so advanced (technologically) that they created their own computers and VR worlds
and we're just part of a dinosaur's VR sim
 
@AlexM. Start with A space odessy. go from there.
 
that's actually a theory
 
11:50 PM
a VR sim that was based on the premise "what if a meteor hit the earth and killed our dumb ancestors"
 
yes yes, that makes sense
 
like, there are some physicists who actually believe we live in a simulator
 
"max, are you playing with those humans again? how many times have I told you to go out and meet some girl stegos?"
"BUT MOOOOM"
 
@rightfold Willen jullie meer of minder monads?
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked LOL
 
11:52 PM
@AndyProwl No there is not, there were a team that tested a testable hypothesis that included that matrix like universe
 
@StackedCrooked minder! minder!
 
@sehe :D
 
> "Willen jullie meer of minder demagogie?"
Plebs: "Minder!!!! Minder!!!"
 
Xeo
@AndyProwl not impossible
 
@CaptainGiraffe You can easily find several references just by googling
 
11:53 PM
hmm
 
Xeo
just imagine what will happen if we get powerful enough computers to run simulations on
 
anyway, on a more serious note, I'm really curious to find out what's outside the part of the universe we know things about
I also hope we don't die too soon
 
of course we will
 
damnit :(
 
if by "we" you mean the people who are here now
when I think about it, it drives me crazy
 
11:55 PM
Really? To me this sounds excruciatingly stupid. The light speed is the max for transferring any kind of information.
 
I think if humans advanced fast enough to allow for mechanical replacements for all critical organs, I'd definitely be crazy enough to get them to keep myself alive
 
Xeo
the current generations were born both too late and too soon. too late to die before all those possibilities existed, and too soon to actually experience those possibilities
 
And you are curious about what is beyond that?
 
@Xeo given the current time frame a human being is given, I guess that can be said of all generations
 
earwax is really dirty
 
Xeo
11:57 PM
@AndyProwl with 'current' I'm spanning a few hundred both forwards and backwards in time :)
 
@AlexM. we are at least a couple of centuries behind for that
 
@Xeo ah, I see
 
hoping jeff's wrong
 
at least for it to be available to normal people like us (that does not have billions of dollars)
 
@AlexM. Don't. Jeff is always right.
 
11:58 PM
yesterday, by rightfold
@sehe earwax best lip balm.
 
well it goes without saying that providing immortality to everyone is... bad
 
If you are hoping geometry to be wrong, then please go ahead write your future.
 
@sehe uuugh
 
sehe .. may i get ur email id.. to ask more doubts on boost serialiazation.. — user3382670 28 secs ago
oh god no
 
Xeo
@AndyProwl I liked the DonJeff version
 
11:59 PM
also, the whole purpose of life is to get tired of it
 
so it makes sense for it to be available only to particular individuals
 
@sehe he can have my earwax
 
@Xeo yeah I realized it wasn't bad
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey He demonstrates blackjack, but not hookers. :(
 
@StackedCrooked You can give it to user3382670 maybe
 
11:59 PM
@AlexM. but how do you decide who deserves it then?
 
@sehe ah, I'll put him on the waiting list.
 
@rightfold he is such a loser :P
 

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