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2:00 PM
@ArneMertz lol
 
user1804599
Oh
 
user1804599
Apparently, only one user can SSH into this server at a time.
 
@LucDanton yeah sry... after reloading the order of the answers had changed....
 
@rightfold fail
 
user1804599
Oh
 
user1804599
2:06 PM
And now I log in as this user that is not root and I enter its password …
 
user1804599
And guess what. I’m logged in as root. :S
 
user3010322
I think I was going to implement bounds
 
user3010322
... But I'm not sure why I'd implement it. :c
 
ok I see nothing
 
user3010322
Hm.
 
user3010322
2:11 PM
Strides.
 
user3010322
Guess I'd better try that.
 
user1804599
% chsh -s $(which emacs)
 
wow
I think it works
like, it went trough TCS and TES
it's still fucking white for whatever reason
oh wait no fail
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes Did you take a shot at implement the array_view thingy?
 
user1804599
@SuhosinPony Are you a genius?
 
2:17 PM
@ThePhD I've been doing something that goes way beyond that for a while now.
 
user3010322
Oh.
 
user3010322
Taussig ?
 
user3010322
Oh.
 
user3010322
Well then.
 
2:18 PM
hmm
each file can be in multiple projects, and each project can issue a list of combined errors, which is a list of definitions that are conflicting.
yay.
 
user3010322
Well, if it ever strikes your fancy, show me.
 
@ThePhD Looking at it would probably kill you.
 
user3010322
My body is ready for Heaven.
 
My design is a bit different from N3851, though.
 
user3010322
I can'r say N3851 is particularly hard to achieve,
 
user3010322
2:21 PM
except when I wanted to make it compile-time.
 
user3010322
Then I just threw my hands up because template metaprogramming is kind of dumb.
 
you really love compile-time don't you
 
> Depending on the abstract patch type, the primitive generator evaluates a different number of tessellation levels and applies different tessellation algorithms. Each generated vertex has a normalized position (i.e. the coordinates are on the range [0, 1]) within the abstract patch. This position has two or three components, depending on the type of the patch. The coordinates are provided to the TES via the built-in in vec3 gl_TessCoord​ input.
 
user3010322
Thankfully, once constexpr happens on VC++, I can just do that and tell templates to go fuck off.
 
@ThePhD Thing is, you can't.
vOv
 
user3010322
2:23 PM
I mean, for simpler things
 
Meh.
constexpr is way overhyped.
 
user3010322
Like if I have a fully constexpr bounds, I can express the stride in terms of that bounds object
 
You probably can't.
When it comes to anything resembling decent TMP use cases, constexpr is minimally useful.
 
user3010322
Rather than getting a list of variadics, trying to split up the dimensions from the strides, and having a horrible time with template-template-detail-class-inheritance bullshit.
 
Except you still have to.
constexpr can't types.
When will people understand that?
TMP is not factorial.
 
user1804599
2:25 PM
> SIOCIFCREATE
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what does factorial mean when used as an adjective?
 
I only know factorial as n!
 
I think he means TMP is not computing factorials at compile time (am I being captain obvious here?)
 
I didn't use it as an adjective.
 
2:27 PM
Oh.
@Borgleader I missed the obvious..
constexpr can do factorial at least :)
 
In the end, constexpr can only do what you could already do at runtime. That should be an obvious conclusion.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, I suck at getting the obvious..
 
@StackedCrooked Many people seem to not realise that.
 
But in retrospect it's obvious.
I first approached constexpr as a friendlier syntax for tmp. Which is not accurate.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I always saw constexpr as a hint to the compiler saying "hey that thing you might have done at runtime, try doing it at compile time"
 
2:31 PM
But constexpr is often explained by showing how it simplifies TMP constructs.
 
user3010322
I look at it as an easier way to provide compile-time constants.
 
user3010322
... Compile-time constants I need for strided_array_view not to be a nightmare. ._.
 
damn my nail broke
 
user3010322
Dun dun dunnn.
 
2:32 PM
@StackedCrooked probably for the same reason that factorial is often used to show how TMP works. It might not be relevant, but it makes people think they understand it :p
 
like monads
 
user3010322
<_>
 
anyway barycentric coordinates are the thing
 
penise cale just brilliant really.
 
user3010322
Monads.
 
2:33 PM
In geometry, the barycentric coordinate system is a coordinate system in which the location of a point of a simplex (a triangle, tetrahedron, etc.) is specified as the center of mass, or barycenter, of masses placed at its vertices. Coordinates also extend outside the simplex, where one or more coordinates become negative. The system was introduced (1827) by August Ferdinand Möbius. Definition Let \mathbf{x}_1, \ldots, \mathbf{x}_n be the vertices of a simplex in an affine space A. If, for some point \mathbf{p} in A, : ( a_1 + \cdots + a_n ) \mathbf{p} = a_1 \, \mathbf{x}_1 + \cdots + a...
@ThePhD monads are great
 
@BartekBanachewicz That Barry, always thinks he's the center of the universe
 
they are actually pretty cool
I mean, once you get how they are used in tesselation
I think I am slowly getting it
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes
 
user3010322
So
 
user3010322
I think this buffer_view is pretty decent for now.
 
user3010322
2:34 PM
I just don'thave a strided version.
 
I had a short conversation with a colleague when I went for coffee and he a) confirmed that my assumptions earlier were correct b) told me a bit more about control stage
 
user3010322
I can probably implement buffer_view in terms of strided_buffer_view and save myself some code.
 
user3010322
Either that, or just define some simple conversion operators for implicit conversions from one to the other that should be acceptable.
 
wooo a triangle
 
user1804599
I never got any further than a triangle.
 
user3010322
2:43 PM
Wait a second
 
user3010322
Why the hell would I use strided_buffer_view
 
user3010322
It's just imposing arbitrary constraints on the dimensions....
 
user3010322
.... which I can already do manually. <_>
 
You don't even know what you are trying to implement? o_O
Come on.
 
user3010322
Well, hold on.
 
user3010322
2:44 PM
Before you say I'm a horrible person, just think about it.
 
you are nice person, but your coding skill isn't so ~_~
 
@ThePhD Think about what?
 
@ThePhD Done!
You're a horrible person :)
 
user3010322
;~;
 
NIH has gotten so acute you no longer care what it is you are inventing, as long as it's here.
 
user3010322
2:47 PM
But seriously. strided_array_view only adds benefit when you're using an iterator to loop over elements.
 
user3010322
When doing things like calculating the index of access, it's an almost identical caluclation, no?
 
@telkitty.exe trololol. His coding skill is pretty ok. You're just jealous.
However, on failing ethics/esthetics the derpstorm can still learn a lot from the kitty
@ThePhD the value of an abstraction doesn't depend on the complexity of the implementation
 
There is a 20-page paper describing the two.
 
user3010322
I'm reading it!
 
Already halfway through the implementation!
 
user3010322
2:50 PM
I finished reading the paper, then I implemented, now I'm going back and wondering what makes strided_array_view so special, except for its generalization casing for bounds_iterator
 
sigh... I said penise cale when I meant penis cake.
penise cake is much tastier
 
There is a paragraph that explains the difference between the two.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes NIH?
 
@Borgleader Not Invented Here syndrome.
 
@thecoshman Could be penile case.
 
user3010322
2:51 PM
Also, how is this "not invented here"?
 
It appears you are using "read" with a very literal meaning.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes between penise cake and penise cale?
 
user3010322
The only full implementation of something liek this is boost::multidimensional_array
 
I.e. just reading it, not understanding it.
Kinda like how I can read Greek.
 
urgh
"Find this manager by stringly-typing it. You must stringly-typed export a Singleton of this type."
who comes up with this shit
 
2:56 PM
jab
sneer
insinuate
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh, and how I can read out loud Spanish :P
 
okay. whom?
 
my tesselation control shader is not working
when I enable it , my quad disappears
 
I don't know how to screw a tesselation control shader
 
3:00 PM
which is pretty lame because it's like the most easy part of the pipeline
 
(it appears it's already screwing you)
 
like, to write, not to screw
 
You know. I've spent 16 hours now trying to get a JTabbedPane to render correctly. Top that
 
O.O
 
YES
I have to write out all tess levels that I am going to use
they won't get any default values if TCS is used
I'm getting closer
 
3:04 PM
> The strided_array_view requires only a constant stride for each dimension (most notably, the requirement of the unitary stride in the least significant dimension is relaxed). It is used primarily to express sections of an array_view, however more advanced use cases are possible–e.g. defining a view over specific subobjects in a collection of POD objects.
 
This can be found in the paper by going to the table of contents (first page), and clicking "array_view and strided_array_view".
 
@BartekBanachewicz such tessellation, much control, wow
 
@Borgleader You automatically lose if you make a Doge joke.
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes Right; what that's saying is the only thing that changes is the definition of what would happen if you were iterating over the object. What I was getting at most of the implementation was the same, and using strided_array_view was almost always a very, very special case.
 
3:06 PM
No.
Also mentioned in the paper is the fact that array_view is the special case.
> The observation that the array_view is a special case of the strided_array_view may lead to an alternative design,
This is from the other section labelled "array_view and strided_array_view" in the paper.
> Daher wird die unten aufgeführte Ware früher als erwartet an Sie versandt:
Woooot!
 
> Munroe, Randall "What If"
Bisheriges voraussichtliches Lieferdatum : 15. Oktober 2014
Neues voraussichtliches Lieferdatum : 10. September 2014
 
this one is a tad cooler arguably
the first one was inner=4, outer=1, the second 4 and 4
hm I think I know how I could move them around now
 
@BartekBanachewicz Write a geodesic sphere tessellator!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's actually pretty hardcore, because triangles are way harder :/
 
3:11 PM
 
I tried to get triangles to work and failed
 
Actually, GS would probably be better for that.
 
heightmap tesselation is cool
 
@Borgleader CC0 ftw
 
aaand theeen
it's pretty damn cool :3
 
3:16 PM
@ThePhD Btw, have you noticed that that sorta is the primary use case?
 
user3010322
Unfortunately, that hasn't been the primary use case for me.
 
user1804599
Nice.
 
Then what is it?
 
I think I can see how I could sample from the heightmap now
 
user1804599
But you don’t need that many vertices to get that shape. :P
 
3:17 PM
@DeadMG > Community News
Naniwa released from Alliance
lol
 
user3010322
It'd come in handy with textures, for sectioning data based on non-compressed pixel offsets. But other than that, what I actually want it as an abstraction for all of the buffer-based types.
 
he was already talking about retiring anyway
 
user3010322
@Borgleader Sounds like a good idea.
 
I doubt he cares about it
 
@rightfold thing is you can easily scale up or down. If you need more detail, you can just bump the LOD and get nice dense points
 
3:19 PM
@ThePhD Using the wrong tool as usual? Maybe N3334 is a better fit.
 
user3010322
As nice as array_ref is, I also needed it to contain multidimensional information (2d, 3d textures and all). A ranked array_view provided that all in one class with a good interface (and it's what I currently have, just fleshed out with the bounds and index bits that are also incredibly useful).
 
user1804599
I mean vertically.
 
user1804599
Four per column is enough.
 
@ThePhD A good interface without iterators?
cough
 
user3010322
Neither D3D nor OpenGL expect iterators from me; it's all pointers and buffers.
 
3:21 PM
@ThePhD Then what's the 2D and 3D for?
 
@rightfold but I can render millions!
 
It's all pointers and unidimensional buffers.
 
user3010322
Because OpenGl/D3D also asks "what's the dimensions of these buffers so I can manipulate accordingly"?
 
user3010322
It still requires you to tell it width, height, or even depth.
 
3:23 PM
struct thingy { dimensions d; T* buffer };?
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, which looks exactly like array_view.
 
user3010322
The one place where I could get away with using iterators is with a dynamic texture and a map call (Via device_context.(Un)Map), but iterators have to be templated and I'd have to expose the user to the underlying implementation in order to use that iterator there, unless I copied it to a temporary buffer first (not... the best idea in the world... )
 
I don't understand why you have so much trouble implementing it, then.
 
Robot is dumbfounded by other peoples dumbness :P
 
user3010322
3:25 PM
I'm not having trouble implementing buffer_view (I already implemented it). The only thing I initially had trouble with was a compile-time array_view (no dice, I hate variadics). I was just questioning the usefulness of strided_buffer_view.
 
what can I do with tesselation
 
user3010322
I only didn't get it's usefulness because it was not necessary for my use cases. But I'm going to implement it all the same; it might come in handy later.
 
I want to colour stuff
 
The interesting parts in the paper are section and bounds_iterator. All the rest is trivia.
 
@BartekBanachewicz do cool terrain shit with lods and procedural shaders (for like snow/rock transition based on slope and height and maybe some grass near the bottom)
 
3:27 PM
@Borgleader I was thinking for the next hour before I go home
I will try to do something bigger during the weekend
well I added some color but it's not very fun
 
guys how can I use SFINAE to check if a type supports indexing with integers?
 
decltype(std::declval<T>()[0])
 
1 would be better.
 
that would give a pass to, say, std::map<int*, int*>.
 
3:31 PM
won't that fail if T is not default-constructible?
 
Oh, that.
@nightcracker There is no construction there.
std::declval has no implementation.
 
oh wait
that's the entire point of declval
I guess that's the thing I was looking for then
 
thanks martinho :)
 
I made nice spark-like star effects when the player touches the screen in my latest game; I always wanted to do that after having played Nox lol
happy I managed to find an occasion
not so happy that it's a game for 10 year olds lol but anyway
 
user3010322
3:33 PM
Hm.
 
user3010322
I'm not so sure I'm accessing indices i teh correct manner...
 
A game for 10 yos, yo.
 
fix'd
 
well
now that I see how to do it
it's indeed either sampling from texture or gtfo
you need as much data as you can for that to produce nice effects
and the real power is in dynamic "throttling" of how much of that data will get to become vertices
 
deep throttling
 
3:37 PM
lol
 
yeah I want to write an app for that
dunno if heightmap or voxel world
 
user1804599
Voxel world.
 
voxel heightmap
 
voxel world would be just generating cubes from points
 
user1804599
Generate a voxel world from a heightmap. :v
 
user1804599
3:43 PM
 
user1804599
233280000 pixels.
 
i've seen this picture before
 
@rightfold that's pretty cool
 
user1804599
Then make it into a sphere!
 
user1804599
I once made a 3D moon with three.js with bump map.
 
user1804599
3:46 PM
Was very nice. Maybe I still have it somewhere.
 
user1804599
Also Io.
 
user1804599
Nah; lost it.
 
"aand it's gone"
 
user1804599
The only thing I can find in my Dropbox folder is Versus The World.zip. :S
 
user1804599
3:52 PM
No idea what it is. But no 3D moon.
 
user1804599
It had nice galaxy in the background, and used particle system for stars.
 
so kewl.
> Here’s the beauty part: by creating your texture with a GL_LINEAR filter, you’ll be able to leverage dedicated interpolation hardware to obtain points (and orientation vectors) that live between the node centers.
 
user1804599
oooh found it
 
user1804599
But for some reason the galaxy background isn’t working in Chrome.
 
user1804599
> [.WebGLRenderingContext]RENDER WARNING: texture bound to texture unit 0 is not renderable. It maybe non-power-of-2 and have incompatible texture filtering or is not 'texture complete'
 
user1804599
Oh, Versus The World.zip was the Amon Amarth album.
 
@rightfold works for me
 
user1804599
It works for me too in Safari.
 
user1804599
But in Safari the Moon is black.
 
3:59 PM
Let me show you a simple use case you might find useful. Say you have a 4x3 matrix view of some contiguous storage. Say, the first dimension varies fastest in this view, i.e. the storage is laid out as (0, 0), (1, 0), (2, 0), (3, 0), (0, 1), (1, 1), (2, 1), ... etc. I don't want to bother checking if this means row-major or column-major. Doesn't matter either. That is a strided view with strides (1, 4). Now, imagine you want to look at it through a transposed view.
For the transpose indices that would mean the same storage would contain (0, 0), (0, 1), (0, 2), (1, 0), (1, 1), (1, 2), (2, 0)
 
what the fuck is this
 
user3010322
Kinky.
 
deque_no_alloc.cpp:488:51: warning: value computed is not used [-Wunused-value]
struct has_subscript<T, decltype(std::declval<T>()[""], void())> : string { };
-Wunused-value warns from within decltype?!
who's fucking idea was that
 
@nightcracker void(...)?
 
4:01 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm sorry, what do you mean?
 
@nightcracker Casting things to void is how you shut up that warning. Does decltype(void(std::declval<T>()[""])) trigger it?
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz This picture? Or only the 3D stars?
 
Or decltype((void)...) if you prefer.
 
@rightfold both
 
user1804599
Nice.
 
4:03 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes no it does not, thank you
 
user1804599
I should remake this thing so you can pick a body and it will show you a 3D model of it with the working background and information about it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes hmm, it seems your indexing trick does not work for checking for indexing by strings decltype(std::declval<T>()[""]), as 3[""] is valid =/
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes I see what you mean; that would come in handly for matrices and the like, so it would just be a matter of iterating differently rather than creating a temporary and filling/transposing...
 
user3010322
I mean, there's probably a boatload of other use cases too. I just haven't gotten around to groking them all yet, and I just want the abstraction power right now with the ability to grok the rest of those use cases sometime later.
 
@nightcracker Lemme think. I know there's a way to avoid that bullshit.
@nightcracker Though I guess ints are indeed indexable by strings. :P
 
4:07 PM
yep xD
3["test"] == 't'
 
@ThePhD You can replicate a 1x3 array four times into a 4x3 matrix without any additional storage with strides (0, 1).
 
this entire thing would be so much easier if operator[] could be in the global namespace
 
heh, graphics is fun
also GL_TRIANGLES_ADJACENCY looks fun in particular
 
@BartekBanachewicz glsl.heroku.com Lots of more examples of ray tracing.
 
ergh... I need to cough up money for my server
I think it's easier to pay than move shit off
 
4:18 PM
@thecoshman I know the feeling. Where are you currently hosting?
 
@Nican OVH
it's cheap enough for my needs
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes do you think just checking for std::is_integral is appropriate or are you thinking about a more elegant solution?
 
@BartekBanachewicz ¬_¬ no...
 
@thecoshman why no?
 
@BartekBanachewicz graphics :P
 
4:25 PM
@thecoshman what
 
no! not again! not another remembered forgotten thing!
oh few, no, I remember what I forgot.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes or, possibly std::declval<T>().operator[](""), seeing there are no built-in types that can be indexed by strings
 
@nightcracker Except integers.
 
@DeadMG I specifically want to exclude those
 
Why though?
Yes, 3["test"] is a bit ridiculous, but I don't see how it would cause trouble.
 
4:37 PM
I want to implement it.
not for tesselation, just looks nice
 
@Nican that is awesome
 
> an increibly simple code
awesome
 
#define NL "\n" o_O
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz y u no raw string literals.
 
4:42 PM
said he doesn't have them
5 hours ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
fuck not having raw string literals
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes this is for type-safe formatting, I'd rather have format("{0[test]}", 3) raise an error than compile and return "t"
 
That... won't work.
 
what won't?
 
0[test] is in a string.
Unless you have a JIT compiler around, no dice.
 
4:45 PM
you'd need to invoke Clang to interpret, analyze, and JIT it.
and trust me, I've been there and done that and you really don't want to.
 
And it's orbital bombardment to kill a fly.
 
eehm I still don't know what won't work?
 
@nightcracker You're trying to take the string 0[test] and evaluate it as a C++ expression.
 
no I'm not
oh god
oh shit
my example was the worst ever in terms of ambiguity
holy fuck the coincidence
 
Oh, I see it.
lol
 
4:46 PM
I don't
 
dear god
I've never seen it this bad
 
@DeadMG It will be made into 3["{0[test]}"] somewhere in the code.
 
the only thing obviously not correct is that it would have had to have been 0[\"test\"] rather than 0[test].
 
format("{0}", arg0, arg1) is supposed to print arg0 (or well, throw an exception that there are too many arguments, but ok)
 
Post actual sample code. This example will not print [12](. — Cory Nelson 55 mins ago
^ Actually been a long time since I've seen this class of error happen. Thanks Obama!
 
4:47 PM
format("{0[5]}", vec) returns the 6th element of vec, formatted
 
ok, so what we're actually saying is that your proposed format strings are completely unreadable by anybody, even you.
 
no, they're based on Python's
 
that... completely does not dispute what I just said.
 
what made my example so poor is that 0["test"] is one of those confusing examples in itself
@DeadMG I disagree, and so do many python developers
 
@nightcracker Why would you ever support that shit instead of format("{0}", vec[5])?
@nightcracker Being "based on" Pythons does not mean anything. PHP's syntax is based on C's but it's still an abomination only comparable in fail to C++ and much worse than C's.
you can be based on X but still be vastly worse than X.
and secondly, what works and is intuitive in Python is going to be miles different to what works and is intuitive in C++.
 
4:50 PM
@DeadMG because it allows you to pull out information from the arguments from within the format string
@DeadMG I'm experimenting
 
Friday an a tricky algorithm needs to be cracked #good times
 
@nightcracker You know that leaves you open to a bunch of format string attacks, right? Since indexing past the range of a vector is UB?
and there's also the "slight" problem of it hardly working with any useful containers at all, since most are not random-access.
 
@DeadMG it would be checked, of course
 
not to mention ranges.
 
the feature might not make it in my next versions, I just want to get it to work and see how useful it is
 
4:53 PM
it's a worthless complication that serves only to make the format string far more problematic to read, introduces security holes, and serves little benefit.
 
the reason why it's so great in python is that it's totally generic (because of introspection)
"{0[0].x}, {0[0].y} - is the coordinate of {0[0].name}".format(tup)
if it's usefulness is a lot less in C++ I'll just scrap it
 
@r.m I don't get that hate towards NL.
 
user1804599
@DeadMG not with at.
 
Obviously it's meant to be used only in samples and the like
And yeah no raw literals in vs2012
 
user1804599
Ruby’s string interpolation best string interpolation.
 
4:58 PM
string interpolation?
 
interpolate("a", "c") -> "b" ?
 
Heh nope
 
Xeo
"$varname" -> "value_of_var"
 
user1804599
@nightcracker make a UDL that compiles a format string into a data structure.
 
user1804599
4:59 PM
Then you can verify shit at compile-time.
 

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