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5:01 PM
Either that, or request access.
 
so plugin for DWARF debugging information it is then?
 
Yeeep.
Create a Debugging Engine that performs just as good as Natvis/PDB
 
Dorfs are cool.
 
ELF is just a binary code format right?
 
ELF is an executable format.
 
5:02 PM
Ah. Okay.
 
(And other stuff, but yeah)
 
Welp. Time to eat the COM/ATL food.
 
Time for sony press conference :3
 
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Windows.
 
@ThePhD Poor sod.
 
5:04 PM
@ThePhD It could be worse, it could be a POSIX C API
@R.MartinhoFernandes By the way, is it just me, or is playing a Fighter in 3.5e actually a kinda interesting proposition?
 
error C2446: '==' : no conversion from 'int' to 'System::Windows::Forms::TextBox ^'
 
I tried a Fighter in AD&D and it was like, the only ability you had was to attack slightly more often.
whereas 3.5e fighters have like, actual abilities and nice feats and stuff.
 
Xeo
They have more feats than other classes.
Which is kinda their point.
 
hmm
I was playing a Sorcerer and I'm to like, 7th level, but I got a feat and there was hardly anything useful to take.
 
Xeo
And really, they nearly only have feats, as far as I can tell.
 
5:07 PM
@DeadMG No, it's not just you. 3.5E Fighter is pretty cool (I'd put it in my top two favourites).
 
mostly just a list of weapon focus and skill focus.
 
Xeo
Take a meta-magic feat!
 
eh
none of them really interested me
 
It does get a bit boring to play it on high levels (i.e. past 15), but if you are talking about computer RPGs that might not apply.
 
oh yeah.
 
Xeo
5:08 PM
Fuck. I need to get out of the door at 8am tomorrow, which means I have to do groceries now.
 
for pen and paper Sorcerers, do they still need high ranks in Spellcraft for Epic feats and such?
 
@DeadMG Fighters get a larger set of feats. (Though my experience is biased because we had a lot of source material to pick feats from)
 
I am curious, where do you usually add friends in a class? I often add it at the top, but I am not aware if there is a convention.
 
I configured my sorcerer to be like, 16 str 16 dex 16 con, 6 int 8 wis, 14 cha.
 
@DeadMG Dunno. We never got to Epic levels.
 
Xeo
5:09 PM
... sorcerer? 16 str?
 
then I read the rules for epic feats in SRD, and I'm like, I only get 1 skill point per level
@Xeo Eldritch Knight route.
you probably don't remember, but I complained on here before about how NWN2 opens the game with a two-character party against five or six melee enemies at a time when you don't even have second-level spells.
 
@DeadMG Ha, that's gonna suck.
 
so if you don't gear your main character to take and deal at least a little bit of melee punishment, you don't get to 4th level.
I might also add that the computer-controlled enemies have a real habit of focusing the PC over the other NPCs in your party.
 
@DeadMG My roommate played a lot of NWN2 and all his characters had four fighter levels.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, I was thinking about opening with some fighter levels
the trouble with that is it's very locked in- like, if it turns out later that I really needed only three fighter levels and really needed one extra sorcerer level, then what?
play through the whole game again from scratch?
ah, I could probably just use a character editor in this case.
also
 
5:13 PM
@DeadMG IIRC he would make the first three fighter, and then take fourth when he really wanted an extra feat at one of the less interesting level-up points.
 
when I took my second level of fighter, there weren't any Fighter feats I really wanted.
or even first.
so atm I'm 6 Sorcerer, 1 Eldritch Knight.
 
Woah, that's... weird.
 
why?
I read the SRD and the EK prestige class is clearly specifically intended for fighter/arcane caster style hybrids.
(also there's a bugged feat in NWN2 that gives you double caster level for every EK level)
 
I really don't know the repertoire you get in NWN2, but in our pen and paper games I only allowed mid-session level-ups if people had it pre-planned, because fighters took forever to pick feats (for too much choice, not for lack).
 
yeah
 
5:15 PM
Wow, ..Synergy is a nice piece of software..
 
there were feats I wanted, like Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
 
How good was Neverwinter Nights 2 ?
 
but you had to be fighter 4th to have them.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG You need 1 level in a class that is proficient with all weapons for Eldritch Knight, no?
 
@Xeo Only Martial weapons proficiency, at least NWN2. I started as an Elf anyway so I got Elf weapon proficiency for my melee weapons. Then wasted a feat on Martial because I wasn't very interested in the other feats on offer.
 
5:16 PM
@DeadMG he, maybe that was what my roommate would often pick with the fourth level later on.
 
Xeo
Ew, tree huggers.
 
@Xeo Optimization. That specific subrace was +2 dex, -2 int, and since I didn't want int and did want dex, more ability points for me to put into stats I did want.
also the Elven weapons proficiency was good for most of the weapons I actually wanted to use.
 
Vanilla elves are meh, but Forgotten Realms has some neat subraces.
 
and that subrace had favoured class: sorcerer
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Powergaming is no fun. The real fun comes with inefficiencies!
 
5:18 PM
what really bummed me though is that they cut the Mystic Theurge class during development.
I wanted to be a Sorcerer/Favoured Soul mystic theurge
 
@Xeo In a computer that isn't as fun because you can't play them out as often/as well.
@DeadMG Isn't there mod with a ginormous pack of classes?
 
Xeo
Yeah, and you can't trick the GM.
 
@Xeo What does that mean? o_O
 
Xeo
Tricking the GM is fun.
anyways, groceries time.
 
Hmm, I should leave too.
I'm winning the starboard, btw. I still got it.
 
Xeo
5:21 PM
waves hand This is not the time you want to leave...
 
That awkward moment you make a class friends with itself...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, but MT isn't one of them because the engine is bugged w.r.t. classes like Sorcerer learning new spells at a new level.
 
@ScottW Fuck me, take me to an airport and keep me there.
Yeah, OK, 'fuck' has problems with overload resolution.
 
Do people use JS willingly?
 
@ScottW I'm not so sure that the 'direct inducement' works anymore. I've heard that many dev. offices are threatening close family members instead.
 
5:36 PM
Some dude just commented on my answer saying i was wrong in saying C++ does not have properties because OP is using C++/CLI which does have them.
=.=; since when is C++ == C++/CLI
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Indeed :D
 
@Xeo have you seen new arc of The World Only Knows?
It's silent here.
I used a goto today.
But I removed it later.
It's a shame.
 
5:56 PM
Sony gets all the indies.
Microshaft is gonna pee their pants.
 
The guy directing the Sony Conference at Gamescom HATES video games. Everytime good footage comes up... he shows the crowd. Bastard.
 
user1804599
comefrom beach;
 
user1804599
Holy shit that was nice.
 
Using comefrom? You're sick in your mind.
 
sony is awesome.
 
user1804599
6:03 PM
Man.
 
user1804599
I want to go to the beach.
 
Today, a C question made me cry; 'I spent about 8 hrs trying to overcome the linking issues, until I got to a point where I know I can't get further'. It's just terrible when the linker wins :((
 
@MartinJames Yeah :( I know from experience. Took me 3 days to build the boost example tut
 
@Chemistpp You spend ages opening compiler doors, then the linker slams a huge, 20-ton steel one in your face.
 
GUUUUYYYYYS
STL INVITED ME TO PREVIEW HIS TALK
 
6:07 PM
Twitch coming to PS4, weeeeeee gonna watch stream on mah tv
 
I AM GOING TO MEET HIM FACE TO FACE
AND GIVE HIM FEEDBACK
FUCK WHY IS MY REFLECTION PROPOSAL NOT DONE Q____Q
 
@ThePhD IS IT ON C++/CX?
 
@Borgleader Raw C++ baby.
 
Don't fuck up :P
 
q_q
I feel like I'll choke
Oh my god my hair isn't even done right now
5
BUT I BROUGHT A COMB! I'll spend lunch in the bathroom, cleaning up.
Fuck yes, I just shaved my beard yesterday, so I'm gonna be clean shaven for this.
 
6:09 PM
@ThePhD You should have had chops.
All PhDs do
 
69
A: C# versus C++ performance

John DiblingI'm sure this will get downvoted a hundred times, but I just have to say it: So what is the NET effect of it when comparing C++ and C# since both object still need to be deleted? In my view (and this is an admitted rant) the net effect is that some (many?) C# programmers don't really unders...

^^ love the comment thread on that.
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked I read the manga :P
 
user1804599
It's fast enough.
 
Xeo
@ThePhD lol
guy calm down
 
@Xeo I watched Puella Magi Madoka Magica or whatever it's called
 
Xeo
6:13 PM
mh
 
I was gonna vomit from all the happy, until someone got their head chomped off 3 episodes in.
 
@ThePhD I just call it "Madoka".
 
Then I was like "well, this is new"
 
Xeo
@ThePhD :D
Mami~
 
6:13 PM
@TonyTheLion Tony-sensei. <3
 
I got downvoted :(
Oh well, perfectly divisible by 10.
 
Xeo
lol
 
@ThePhD Did ya like it?
 
But yeah, Magica thingy was decent
 
Xeo
6:15 PM
yea
 
The ending was still a bit too "WELL NOW I'LL JUST SOLVE ALL THE PROBLEMS!"
 
@ThePhD Did Madoka annoy you at the beginning?
 
But that's every Anime ever, so. ._.
 
The standard doesn't require that the length be stored as a field. For example, if you just stored wchar_t head and tail pointers and took the difference, you could get the length in constant time without having to store the length — Nirk 4 hours ago
This doesn't make much sense as a reason since it's kinda irrelevant :v
 
I think so far, only Beserk demonstrated like, actual loss of life to the degree that it wasn't recoverable.
 
Xeo
6:16 PM
wut
 
@Mysticial So all I got from this is that [good] C++ programmers are badass?
 
@Xeo I haven't watched a lot of Anime, but most of what I watch usually has things magically fix themselves at the end.
At least, when it's a not-for-older-audiences Anime.
 
Xeo
Elfen Lied~
 
@Mysticial lol
 
Xeo
Fate/Zero
 
6:19 PM
@ThePhD Cool!
@ThePhD bitten off
 
Xeo
Fullmetal Alchemist
 
@ThePhD Nice.
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked that's what "chomp" means
 
@Xeo Not as good as I'd hoped. I heard there is another one coming out
 
@ThePhD It seemed quite irrecoverable indeed :P
 
6:19 PM
Don't nerd out.
 
@Xeo Ah, TIL.
 
Xeo
@Chemistpp er, it's already done
 
@CatPlusPlus defuq, in a C++ chat room. Don't nerd out.
 
@CatPlusPlus I'm trying. Holding it in.
 
I thought it meant chop.
 
6:20 PM
@StackedCrooked Reading the lore, apparently the witch thought her head was cheese.
 
@Xeo Well I need to get on it then I guess. Did you like it?
 
Xeo
yes
very much
 
Does the Berserk manga go far beyond the anime?
 
Xeo
followed the manga very well
 
@StackedCrooked Way far
But it followed the Manga pretty closely
 
6:21 PM
It's the #1 rated manga on myanimelist.
I suppose it's good then?
 
The anime was meant to bring people to the Manga
Because the ending isn't quite a concluder for the Anime series, and they're not producing more Beserk Anime.
 
The only mangas I read are Fruits Basket and Nana.
 
At least, not as far as I know.
Duude,
Read Gatts and Beserk.
It's like, top-tier stuff.
 
I also read some School Rumble.
And I read some of the Twelve Kingdom novels.
 
@Chemistpp Hey man, FMA: Brotherhood is great
 
6:23 PM
@ThePhD I'll check out gatts.
 
Xeo
5 mins ago, by Xeo
Elfen Lied~
 
@Xeo I used to think that was an English title.
The elven that lied or something.
 
lol
 
Xeo
lol
 
I only watched the old FMA. I need to watch the Brotherhood version, that apparently makes everything better.
 
6:24 PM
@Xeo whats the name of the game you worked on again?
 
Xeo
@ThePhD yes
yes yes and yes
 
@ThePhD The old FMA was god awful
Well.. except for the beginning.
The beginning of the old FMA was really really good.
 
Yeah, I watched it like
.... Mqan, it's been like 9 years
Holy shit am I getting old. :c
 
Xeo
@Borgleader Panzer General Online
 
Yeah grandpa.
 
6:25 PM
Back when I scraped IRC channels for episodes
 
@Rapptz My first anime was Trigun, and ever since, I compare everything to that. Which is still my favorite anime.
probably shouldn't have watched it so soon.
 
@Chemistpp It was one of my first as well. Along with Cowboy Bebop, Evangelion and Ah! My goddess.
 
Xeo
Kara no Kyoukai~
 
@Xeo I liked that.
 
Xeo
Katanagatari~
 
6:27 PM
@StackedCrooked my second was bebop! haha, awesome. I love those two series. My third anime (second favorite) is samurai champloo
 
@Xeo I loved that.
 
@StackedCrooked Me too.
 
Xeo
It was awesome
 
My first anime was Dragon Ball
 
Xeo
Especially the end
 
6:28 PM
@Chemistpp I started watching anime in 2000 for a couple of months. Then I stopped watching it until 2007. Koi koi 7 brought me back. (A lousy anime apparently, but I liked it.)
 
I'm goign to re-watch Scryed
I'm also being forced to watch Narutaru.
 
Naruto was decent
 
Narutaru looks ridiculous.
 
It had potential to be good
 
@Xeo It was surprising, but positively.
 
6:28 PM
@Rapptz That's not encouraging.
 
but it didn't live up to that potential IMO, just like Bleach.
 
I recently saw Martian Successor Nadesico and really loved it.
 
They slowed it down too much
 
@ThePhD I guess Shonen anime for this generation suck. I heard One Piece was good but I don't personally like it.
 
@Rapptz I loved the story but it drags
 
6:29 PM
OH
The other Anime I NEEEED to watch
 
@Rapptz Hunter x Hunter is quite good though!
 
is "Monster"
 
@ThePhD I saw that. It's very good.
My favorite character is the cop.
 
Xeo
@ThePhD The manga is cool
 
For me, Inspector Lunge is one of the most memorable characters in anime ever.
 
6:31 PM
@ThePhD Hmm..
 
PS4 ships 15 nov (NA), 29 nov (EU)
 
Can't say I'm excited or care :v
 
Just spend 15 seconds trying to rewind the live ps4 stream to get back to that comment about cheaper games
then realized it's live.
 
lol, there will prob be vods
 
video games suck
consoles suck
 
6:35 PM
@Rapptz no.
 
Tetris is good.
 
Xeo
1
Q: What is the performance penalty of using std::vector in C++?

atmaereTypically, I'm interested in knowing if the the standard template library incurs performance/speed overheads in codes for numerical/scientific computing. For eg. Is declaring an array as double 2dmatrix [10][10] going to give me more performance than std::vector<std::vector<double> > 2dmatri...

 
3 pointers on the stack, dynamic allocation
 
@Rapptz they have their place. Consoles are nice for chillin and playing. I gotta be all upright at my desk and shit to use my computer to play vids. I'm trying to relax :)
 
Xeo
Are apples or oranges bluer?
 
6:36 PM
Yesterday I was discussing how I think reviewers suck
and then yesterday I found out about a shitty 47 second game that got a 90 on metacritic
 
47 seconds? wut?
 
@StackedCrooked I'm reading your response, 1 line at a time.
 
@Xeo Ugh this question's going to spawn shit answers isn't it
It's already starting
 
@Chemistpp I use std::endl and flush early.
 
@StackedCrooked 3 pointers?
Not just 1?
 
6:40 PM
hah
 
I commented but then I remembered I don't want to discuss with :stackoverflow: users.
 
@Mysticial begin, end, reserved
 
@Mysticial I don't know what the other two are..
 
I always thought of std::vector as just a glorified array. TIL that it has cherries on top.
 
If you know the bounds ahead of time, and they are not going to change, then yes, an array is going to be much more performant than std::vector. Vector is a container that is used for dynamic arrays. It uses a resize policy that sacrifices memory in order to save memory allocations by allocating increasingly large chunks as the vector grows. — crush 4 mins ago
Aahahahahah look at that fukken logic.
 
6:41 PM
> C can often be faster than C++, however sometimes templates in C++ can be used to generate code at compile time, which would otherwise have to be done at runtime.
 
If you know the size, and it's not going to change, C array will be faster, because vector's size changes as it grows!!111
 
@Mysticial I'll check the standard, I don't know what 3 pointers there are :v. I can think of one (iterators are implemented as data and data + len for std::vector AFAIK)
 
Heh - I gotta have a go at this new 'generate code at compile time' thingy.
 
Xeo
@Rapptz first, last, end
as in, beginning of data/memory, end of initialized data, and end of allocated memory.
 
@CatPlusPlus I guess if we were just talking about the function overhead, it's possible it gets inlined. Most likely the function does a little more than 2dmatrix[x][y], but even if it did see StackedCrookeds answer. — Justin Meiners 2 mins ago
MOST LIKELY
 
6:43 PM
The syntax is similar int n[3]; vs std::vector<int> n(3);
 
What's the Wikipedia bracket thingy for weasel words
 
WP:Weasel?
 
room topic changed to Lounge<XYZ>: A Z class movie. [no-questions] [x++] [y++11] [z++-faq]
 
Xeo
@Rapptz Yes :(
The premise of the question is already flawed.
 
@CatPlusPlus It seems your comment was deleted?
 
6:45 PM
faster than 2dmatrix[x][y] ? — Justin Meiners 9 secs ago
 
Xeo
4 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
I commented but then I remembered I don't want to discuss with :stackoverflow: users.
 
AAhahahahaha oh god
He really believes hard in that 2D array
 
C programmer?
 
This argument is silly.
Its been had too many times.
Just ignore and move on
 
6:46 PM
The only overhead in vector's case is one indirection.
 
Can't be much overhead then
 
Ooh! A new boy band name: 'One Indirection' :)
 
And tbh I'm not really sure if that's true.
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus inb4 "Two, there's indirection through this!"
 
Oh, yes.
 
6:48 PM
I wanted to downvote it but I wanted to keep my evenly divisible by 10 rep
 
(Let's disregard that you can pull the buffer out if you really need ~indirectionlessperformancesupercrazywooo~~
 
Is it farfetched to close as a dupe of this?
85
Q: std::vector is so much slower than plain arrays?

kizzx2I've always thought it's the general wisdom that std::vector is "implemented as an array," blah blah blah. Today I went down and tested it, seems to be not so: Here's some test results: UseArray completed in 2.619 seconds UseVector completed in 9.284 seconds UseVectorPushBack completed in 14.66...

 
'Pull the buffer if you really want' - first single by One Indirection.
 
Xeo
> and dynamically allocated data that on average does 1 reallocation per element on a linear growth scenario (because the resizing expands the capacity more than proportionally, a factor of 1.5 to 2).
 
@StackedCrooked I think you deserve a cookie for using stack overflow, in a legitimate context on SO. There should at least be a badge for that.
2
 
Xeo
6:49 PM
wait, what? /cc @TemplateRex
 
I like how everyone concentrates so hard on this fucking indirection overhead, and nobody mentioned that you should just use optimised matrix data type that uses SSE and shit.
 
@Rapptz decisions decisions...
 
Because processing will be your stupid bottleneck.
 
@CatPlusPlus I almost inb4'd that, but I was having too much fun making up silly band names.
 
Xeo
@ThePhD: Btw, I hope you wrote down the anime I listed.
 
6:51 PM
I don't think vector<vector<T>> is a very good choice. The data is still scattered in memory. I would probably go for vector<T>(width * height);
 
Dunno. Do matriceseses.. often change in size/shape?
 
Xeo
I'd go for matrix<T, 2>
@StackedCrooked: Obtw, did you watch Needless yet?
 
@StackedCrooked I'd make a thin wrapper around std::vector<T> to handle indices 2d -> 1d. and then make a matrix class with that.
could also be done with array if matrix doesnt change size (which it usually doesn't)
 
So, I can understand the vector vs. array thing but a normal C++ array vs std::array... No idea
 
user1804599
Use MATLAB.
 
6:54 PM
Don't make a fucking matrix class.
 
@Chemistpp exactly the same with -O1 or -O2.
 
There are libraries for this shit for a reason.
 
Xeo
@Chemistpp std::array is the properly encapsulated version of a C-style array.
 
std::array is unfucked array.
Which sounds really funny for some reason.
 
Xeo
Does that "funny" have to do with STDs and fucking?
 
6:56 PM
@Xeo hrmm. Okay. I should go read about it I guess then because I've never looked into it.
 
Upboat my comment or something.
 
@Xeo Never heard of it. Checking it out...
 
@Xeo Its because std::vector can get pregnant.
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked Ahaha, the cover. :D
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus Still fucked.
 
6:58 PM
I'm sleep deprived, that might be it.
 
user1804599
[] doesn't require bounds checking.
 
I've never needed bounds checking
 

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