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6:00 PM
@TonyTheLion Awwww
 
I can't see these pictures, since i.imgur.com is blocked...
but i.stack.imgur.com isn't... :P
 
Ell
"gl/glu.h no such file or directory" :(
 
user142019
@ShotgunNinja lol
 
user142019
6:03 PM
@Ell case-sensitivity?
 
user142019
Also install GLU before you try to use it.
 
Ell
yeah I had to install glu :P
turns out I don't know the difference between libglu and libglw
yeah I had to install glu :P
 
@MooingDuck Woa.
 
my wife got me flowers for valendines :/
 
GLU is an actual library?
 
6:05 PM
@ThePhD yes
 
@MooingDuck Aww, how nice!
 
@ThePhD keep up
 
Wait why is there a sadface at the end of that? D:
 
@ThePhD I'm a dude, what do I do with flowers?
cats eat them, I could try that...
 
Lol
Don't feed them to a cat. She'll probably get upset.
You should put them by your desk.
See how long you can keep them alive.
Make it a competition.
 
6:06 PM
@ThePhD yeah, she insisted I bring them to work
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck Wear them as a hat!
 
Wait, you are married and are asking for relationship advice here?
5
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes He didn't really ask. I just offered. :D
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes good point
 
We're probably the worst people to give you advice
 
Xeo
6:08 PM
@TonyTheLion I'd wager 4chan is worse.
 
I agree
 
Ell
Yeah
 
my work blocks reddit but not 4chan? Strange.
 
Lol
 
user142019
6:09 PM
At school they don’t block anything.
 
@ThePhD GL -> GLU -> GLUT
 
my work blocks nothing
 
@ShotgunNinja Yeah, I figured it out.
 
@MooingDuck I'm not sure if I want to test that here...
 
Clearly, by any sysadmin standards, 4chan is more safe than reddit. :3c
 
6:10 PM
@ShotgunNinja I almost provided a sfw 4chan page to test with, but then realized you have no reason to trust me. carry on.
 
Xeo
1
Q: Confusion about implementation error within shared_ptr destructor

qbleI have just seen Herb Sutter's talk: C++ and Beyond 2012: Herb Sutter - atomic<> Weapons, 2 of 2 He shows bug in implementation of std::shared_ptr destrictor: if( control_block_ptr->refs.fetch_sub(1, memory_order_relaxed ) == 0 ) delete control_block_ptr; He says, that due to memory...

Interesting
 
@ShotgunNinja one step too far
 
Although they probably don't block 4chan because either (A) no one who has a job goes on 4chan at work, and (B) anyone who would go on 4chan at work is probably a tech/g/uy, and would benefit from the knowledge.
 
4chan can give helpful knowledge?
 
@ThePhD sysadmins obviously like cock
 
6:11 PM
@Xeo I don't know anything about the topic, but that reordering makes me think he misinterpreted Herb.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "Wait, you are asking for relationship advice here?" FTFY
 
Ell
what is GLU?
 
@ThePhD Only on /g/.
 
@TonyTheLion I know when I did it for a year, I couldn't get enough
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck Yeah. I don't think delete could ever be called before fetch, since it depends on the result of that.
 
6:12 PM
@Ell it's a standard utility library for OpenGL
 
oh gawd :|
 
Underneath all of the "favorite Linux flavor" flamewars and desktop ricing threads.
 
@Ell GL Utilities. Ships with most versions of OpenGL, except trimmed packages like OpenGL ES.
 
@ThePhD bleh ES
 
@thecoshman is it actually standardized? I don't think it is.
 
6:12 PM
GL ES is blah
 
@MooingDuck It isn't, I don't think, but it's one of those "usually it's there" type dealies.
 
What do you need from GLU
 
@MooingDuck not sure... close enough to though
 
@Xeo You are assuming the machine will run what you wrote.
 
It's mostly 1.1 stuff
 
6:13 PM
@CatPlusPlus short cuts AFAIK
 
@Xeo can the compiler reorder if statements?
it's a branch, what's inside couldn't possibly go before it all of a sudden
 
@TonyTheLion That's what branch prediction is about, actually.
 
@thecoshman It's all deprecated crap
 
@CatPlusPlus Transformation of object coordinates into device coordinates and vice versa and Rendering of disk, cylinder, and sphere primitives look handy, but I have virtually no experience with opengl
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, branch prediction. That could be bad.
 
6:14 PM
@MooingDuck glm can do that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, but it wouldn't execute the body of the thing before executing the actual statement, no?
 
@CatPlusPlus one more reason why I am glad to be (trying) to start over :P
 
Xeo
@TonyTheLion That's what branch prediction does, and if it was wrong, it rolls back and goes the other way.
 
@MooingDuck Fairly.
 
Yeah, there's not one function in GLU that would work in a core context
 
user142019
6:14 PM
Cacti are painful.
 
@Zoidberg in what way?
 
Matrix stacks are out, so all the projection functions are useless
Immediate mode is out, so all the primitive rendering is useless
 
Xeo
Although, wouldn't that make even single-threaded if(m == 0) delete stuff; dangerous?
 
user142019
@thecoshman If you touch them and they sting you.
 
@Xeo hmmmm
 
6:15 PM
@Xeo No
 
@Xeo if it couldn't check m ==0 it would go execute delete stuff? Seems awkward
 
Ell
smooth_opengl3.c:105:25: error: conflicting types for PFNGLSHADERSOURCEPROC
 
If branch prediction committed side-effects before concretely deciding on a branch, it'd be useless
 
user142019
 
user142019
lol that first scene
 
6:17 PM
@CatPlusPlus good point
 
oh ffs. Source Control is full. AGAIN.
 
@Zoidberg not all cacti
 
@MooingDuck Sigh.
 
@MooingDuck what? how does that even make sense?
 
@MooingDuck Ahahaha what
 
6:18 PM
@CatPlusPlus I haven't looked at them in detail to be sure they actually work, but it seems like the mipmap generators and tessellation stuff would still make sense.
 
@MooingDuck wat
 
@Ell what you working on?
 
@JerryCoffin Mipmap generation is in core now, IIRC.
 
Tessellation is in 4.0
 
And tessellation is now a programmable part of the pipeline.
 
Ell
6:18 PM
@thecoshman trying to compile freeglut
on linux
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes _ thought it was part of GL for ages... or is that basic support for it?
@Ell oh, at least you are using freeglut and not crap GLUT
 
@Ell <package-manager> <install-command> libfreeglut-dev ?
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, but then I don't understand the problem with the atomic<> version.
 
@ShotgunNinja that will not install built files though
 
@Xeo Memory barriers flush cache
 
6:21 PM
I suppose...
 
Or something to that effect
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus So... ? That still wouldn't cause delete to be possibly executed before fetch, right?
 
okey, adding elements works
 
@Ell wait... why are you trying to compile freeglut... surely that is just an intermediate step? for what purpose?
 
@thecoshman everyone points fingers elsewhere, but the servers that hold the source control keeps running out of harddrive space.
 
6:22 PM
Dunno vOv
 
@MooingDuck Would you hate me if I laughed at that?
 
Xeo
Crap. I should've gone home just now. Now I probably won't get around to go shopping anymore. :s
 
user142019
vield Of vision?
 
@Zoidberg 'v' s are hands
 
Last I heard we were somehow putting about 20GB of data on it each day.
 
6:23 PM
@Xeo I think that is possible because relaxed orderings solves any dependencies between different variables and as "refs" and the ptr are two different variables, the fetch could load an old value of the ref which has "kinda" the same effect as deleting before the if.
 
@Zoidberg That works if you read the first word in German.
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz oh what a surprise.
 
Oh god the comment thread here stackoverflow.com/q/14825543/16102
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it'd be completely understandable
 
@MooingDuck if that was aptly face-palmed, we would have a suicide case on our hands
 
Xeo
6:24 PM
@bamboon If any old loaded value was equal to 0, the pointer should be dead anyways.
That should rather cause delete not to be called.
 
"Load your module in ghci!" "But it's not in Prelude" "But it'll be in scope when you load module" "But OP didn't load the module" ARGH DIE DIE DIE
 
Ell
@thecoshman why shouldn't I be compiling it? o.O
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus lulz
 
@Xeo No, because there's no freaking order. You keep assuming the machine will run what you asked to.
 
user142019
\\ is funny at end of line if you have CPP extension enabled.
 
6:25 PM
One of the things Herb tries to convey at the beginning is that the compiler and the CPU don't want to run your piece of crap program and will instead try to run a better one.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I probably should have used different wording than "make sense". All I meant was that they didn't (at least obviously) depend on anything that wasn't available in a core context (not that it made sense to write new code using them).
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm just downloading the vid btw.
 
@Ell I was more wondering if that is your end goal, to have compiled it. Or is it, as I suspect, that you want use it for something else, which is?
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Okay, so branch prediction will preemptively execute delete stuff; or what?
 
No idea.
I haven't finished watching part 2.
 
Xeo
6:27 PM
Then what are you trying to tell me. :(
 
@Xeo delete stuff will typically involve a lot more instructions than will be executed speculatively.
 
@Xeo That you are reasoning with too many assumptions.
 
@Xeo that setting it to relaxed makes it up to compiler to decide what happens and what your program does
 
user142019
I want to sleep on a bed of nails.
 
Ell
@thecoshman yeah it is, I used package manager now :
 
Xeo
6:29 PM
Gawd, why is that video 1.3gig large.
 
So you can see things in it?
 
@Ell so you are compiling freeGlut for the sake of compiling freeGlut?
 
Don't use GLUT
(freeglut isn't any better)
 
user142019
GLUT is terrible.
 
Oh hey 100MB Steam update
 
6:31 PM
@CatPlusPlus oh, small
 
@Xeo Download a lo-res version?
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus a hundred million bytes wasted.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's what I should have done, but it's kinda too late now.
 
user142019
I thought you didn’t have an Internet connection.
 
Xeo
Work
 
6:32 PM
Gettin' paid to poop
 
user142019
It’s 19:30 lawl.
 
user142019
:P
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus that’s why the toilet is the best place at work.
 
Xeo
@Zoidberg And I'm here for the internet.
Also, I did basically no work on the project today because of Patch Day™, and instead wrote some Haskell.
 
Ell
@thecoshman haha it seems I was. I don't trust the package manager sometimes :L
 
6:33 PM
Linux releases sale on Steam
 
user142019
@Ell Package manager is better at managing packages than you are.
 
Xeo
I think I'll go and get some stuff at the supermarket and come back here, so I can finish the download. Brb.
 
@CatPlusPlus What's that? Your choice of Linux releases, half price, today only? Wow, what a deal! :-)
 
Ell
@Zoidberg I know, but it's when I'm compiling older versions of stuff I don't know how to use it properly
 
user142019
6:34 PM
Downloading at work. Bad Xeo!
 
It's a Big Thing (TM)
 
user142019
As is my dick.
 
I wonder if Ubuntu will ship with Steam
 
user142019
Ewwwbuntu
 
@sehe Received a solicitation today from the cable monopoly for business internet: 10down, 2up for $114/month.
 
6:38 PM
In other words, Happy Valentine's Day from Valve Software, Linux-lovers! You can get your box (or boxen, if you know how to juggle) a wonderful gift, for which they'll show their appreciation!
 
@BrianWebster Wow! That's a great deal (for them!)
 
@BrianWebster Ahaahaha that's so crappy
I get 60/6 for 20€
 
@BrianWebster For "business-class" internet, that's kind of a bad deal. Even by me, in the middle of a moderately-sized U.S. midwest city.
 
Yea, made me laugh. They're advertising in an area covered by fiber for 60/10 @ $150 (which is what I use now). Still expensive but obv much better than cable
 
my wallet can't handle a steam sale right now. it just can't
 
user142019
6:40 PM
@EindacorDS wrong.
 
user142019
It can handle Steam, but not food and water.
 
@Zoidberg i like where your head's at
 
Ell
ooooOooohhbuntu
 
damn, Uplink for cheaps
 
Man, if you're in the mood for a joke, check this one out: webcosmoforums.com/web-development-programming-coding/…
 
6:41 PM
not that I don't already own Uplink
 
hmm
FTL for £3.50? I heard such good things about this game
 
@DeadMG yeah, I'm tempted too
 
@DeadMG It's a great game.
 
@DeadMG same, trying to decide between that and anomaly
 
6:43 PM
You should get it if you like roguelikes.
Ouch, Aliens: Colonial Marines has a metascore of 42...
 
@StackedCrooked Make sure the order of operations in your operator++ is correct.
 
I've never played any Roguelikes.
 
Them ternary operators look like risky business to me.
 
the closest I ever came was Diablo.
 
@ShotgunNinja Surely they are doing that sarcastically
 
user142019
6:44 PM
@StackedCrooked -1 not enough recursion.
 
@DeadMG Well, it's a game where everything is randomly generated and you die a lot.
Everything can go swimmingly for a while and then, suddenly, you get screwed over by a random event.
So you die. And start over because it's addictive as fuck.
 
The roguelike is a sub-genre of role-playing video games, characterized by level randomization, permanent death, and turn-based movement. Most roguelikes feature ASCII graphics, with newer games increasingly offering tile-based graphics. Games are typically dungeon crawls, with many monsters, items, and environmental features. Computer roguelikes usually employ the majority of the keyboard to facilitate interaction with items and the environment. The name of the genre comes from the 1980 game Rogue. Origin The roguelike genre takes its name from Rogue, a role-playing video game based ...
 
@Zoidberg Added some on line 38
 
What was the roguelike that just came out? With all the Christian religious symbology?
 
constexpr EtherType operator+(EtherType eth, unsigned n)
{
    return n == 0 ? eth : (++eth + (n - 1));
}
 
6:46 PM
Really popular, from the guys who made Super Meat Boy...
 
Now ain't that nifty? :D
 
@DeadMG Play ToME4
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, it didn't look like a great game when I saw it. It also had no gameplay trailers up on STEAM, just cinematic nonsense (not too proud of your own work, gearbox?)
 
@StackedCrooked Because your increment operator is totally broken.
you never modify the argument...
so how can ++i change i? it doesn't.
 
I see!
 
6:47 PM
@ShotgunNinja Binding of Isaac or whatever
 
@ThePhD yeah, that's it.
technically, it qualifies as a roguelike, but only if you suck at it.
 
@ThePhD From what I've heard, the game spent 6 years of development and parts of it were handed to other developers. Looks like another case of "it's lucky to even be released".
 
BoI is not that great of a roguelike
Also "just came out" what
 
@StackedCrooked Which also means that it can't be constexpr as it has to take it's argument by mutable reference.
 
Indeed :(
 
6:49 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Damn, that's a lot of development manhours to squander.
 
when I said "the" increment operator, I'm pretty sure my comments apply to both of them.
 
I guess Legend of Zelda was supposed to be an episodic roguelike, where they just published new sequels with new randomly-generated dungeons... silly Nintendo.
 
hmm, deleting a file from a 1GB zip takes a while
 
isaac is on my pile of owned & unplayed games. getting pretty tired of this whole 24-hour day bs
 
posted on February 14, 2013 by Jennifer Leaf [MSFT]

Last year, I decided I finally wanted to take the plunge into DirectX development. I'd done a little bit of OpenGL programming several years ago, but no graphics development since then. I bought a few DirectX books, worked through several online tutorials, and tried out the Visual Studio project templates and graphics asset tools, but wasn't sure how to put all this information together to writ

 
6:50 PM
The problem at first was that they couldn't get everything to randomly generate for the world on a NES. So they decided to generate worlds on their own, and just plop them into the NES cartridges.
 
@MooingDuck Doesn't it have to unpack, delete, and then repack?
 
Then they realized that they had to ensure the worlds were winnable, so they spent some time making the first one into a fixed campaign, and eventually abandoned the concept of it being a roguelike.
 
I don't know if any compression formats support in-place deletion.
 
@ThePhD Main reason why games suck: when developers try to build an engine first and then hope the gameplay mechanics will "emerge" naturally.
It never works.
 
potentially interesting fluid dynamics
 
6:52 PM
while(!inFile.eof()) twice in two different questions. grrrhhhhh
 
Other possibility: when the designers don't really know what they want.
 
I'm pretty sure the designers had no idea what they were doing. :D
 
@DeadMG It seems adding a non-constexpr overload won't help much either...
 
@StackedCrooked Can't overload on constexpr-ness.
 
In both of those cases, it means the development won't go fast enough, so they'll need to rush it.
 
6:53 PM
@ThePhD seems to
 
@MooingDuck Well, good luck with that. @__@
 
If they decide to cut the features that are unfinished, you get a game with little content. If they let them in, you get a buggy game.
In both cases, it's usually the designers' fault.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Screwed if you do, screwed if you don't.
All because oh little-to-no-planning...
 
It's easy to make a game that looks good, or sounds good, or runs fast, or has impressive tech. Make a game that's fun? That's the hard part.
Put a bunch of artists in a room, and what'll come out of there will look good. Do the same with designers, and what comes out of there might not be fun...
 
That's why I develop the way I do now. I start by identifying key mechanics I want to see in the game, and then build those. After that, if you have a story, you ask "how can we use the current setup to tell a story?"
 
6:55 PM
the problem is that they have a non-incremental approach.
 
huh... it seems my screen has frozen but I can still interact with 'stuff'...
 
What items/npcs/events/ can be used to tell hte story?
 
crap
 
at least, that's my Armchair Designer perspective
 
@ThePhD You've been watching lots of Extra Credits, hmmM?
 
6:55 PM
@thecoshman oh, nice
 
@StackedCrooked Nice trick.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Actually, I've only ever peripherally heard of it on theescapist. I've never actualy... watched any Extra Credits
 
@DeadMG Actually, games are better developed with a "benevolent dictator" approach.
 
you could also have taken enum& or enum by vale.
@EtiennedeMartel Those two things are orthogonal.
 
6:56 PM
You need someone, or a bunch of people, who have a clear idea of what the game will be about, and what will be the key mechanics.
You need that right at the start of the project.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I think collaboration is good, but at some point someone has to say "this is the best/the way we'll be doing it."
 
Sure, you can increment as much as you want later on to hammer on the little details
 
I mean they don't start with the least thing that could possibly work.
they come up with every possible thing that could possibly work.
 
But the core has to be planned at the start.
 

 Game Development

Game development and other polite discussion. Game development...
 
6:57 PM
@ShotgunNinja That room is terribly boring.
 
@ThePhD it is.
 
At least, from my limited exposure to it.
 
@ThePhD Yes. A game project is like a roadtrip: passengers can suggest things, but ultimately only one person is driving.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Indeed.
I prefer theme-based development.
 
I intended to develop my game the way I write my code- the simplest thing that could possibly work, and then expand it from there if it doesn't work.
 
6:58 PM
Anyway, games should be about gameplay, not about the tech, or the peripherals, or whatever.
 
Speaking of games...
ARRGH RENDERING
Y u no love me Model? ;~;
 
harhar :P
@EtiennedeMartel I agree.
 
The funny thing is, obj's and others are rendering perfectly fine
Beautifully, in fact
I think my Cel Shader is biting the crap...
It's the goddamn FBX's
 
@BartekBanachewicz what's it like? worth reading through?
 
A project I'm working on has this guy who decided to do some rendering. He showed me what he was up to, and my god, I saw some quite sexy lighting and shadows.
 

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