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12:00 PM
Anyway, for a bit of literature, one of the language-agnostic meaning of 'interface' is indeed in use. See the "std::string has a bloated interface" (paraphrasing here) GotW and/or associated book.
So, context.
 
I vaguely thought of the GoTW on "the interface principle" when I was contemplating asking it
I coming to the conclusion that "interface" is horrendously overloaded
 
Meh, not that bad. There's the language/"paradigm" agnostic meaning present in 'API', 'user interface' and so on; and the inheritance-style OOP meaning of the term. The two are in common currency in C++ and can be disambiguated from context imo.
If it helps, C++ has used ABC for 'abstract base class' too. Can't remember where this is from, perhaps something Smalltalk-y. I've seen it in literature but not so much in recent discussions.
 
Where is @R.Martinho these days? , anyone? . didn't see him for long time
 
Ell
how do i get a strong typedef in c++? or is there no such thing?
hmm maybe boost has something
 
Boost has something indeed.
 
Ell
12:15 PM
I can't find it on the website though :S
found it (boost.org/doc/libs/1_48_0/libs/serialization/doc/index.html) although not sure why it's in serialization
eugh I don't like the look of BOOST_STRONG_TYPEDEF
I think I'll just write my own class
 
@MrAnubis true
2 days ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Damn, Boost.Operators won't give me constexpr operators.
^^ last we've seen him
@R.MartinhoFernandes are you still alive? You are being missed
 
You're calling a member that is less cv-qualified than where it's being called from.
 
Ell
12:34 PM
thank you :)
but I wasn't calling a member :S i was doing an assignment
but i didn't make the cast operator const so
but now, why cant I do both 'operator= (const int other)` and operator= (int other)? Do I not need one if I have the other?
 
Top-level const are stripped in function declarations, such that those two declarations are identical.
 
Ell
oh okay - which declaration should I prefer?
 
There are some that advocate that the (public) declarations should never have const in them, but that in the definitions it's ideal to use const.
I.e. void foo(int i);
 
@LucDanton Why shouldn't the declarations have const?
 
but then the definition should be void foo(const int i ) { /* ... */ }
Which buys you that if in the definition someone cannot use e.g. ++i in the misguided idea that it modifies the caller's arguments.
 
Ell
12:39 PM
@LucDanton Its a class template, so should I leave the const out?
 
@Ell That doesn't affect the reasoning.
FWIW I believe (but have no proof obviously) that most of the community simply don't care about top-level const in declarations.
 
@LucDanton +1
@LucDanton +1
 
Ell
@LucDanton well I mean because the definitions & declarations are in the same place, aka definition is in the header file
 
I never use const there myself and when reading someone else's code I won't mind finding const there.
@Ell That's not specific to templates.
struct foo { void bar() {} }; is valid C++ code in a header.
 
Ell
@LucDanton I'm aware that it is valid c++ code, but you said that declarations should never have const in them but its ideal in definitions, in the example you gave, for the bar() function, where is the definition and where is the declaration?
 
12:43 PM
The definition is in the class. Note that a definition always count as a declaration.
So the previous advice should really be "at those declarations-that-are-not-also-definitions", but it's not as catchy.
 
Is it possible to make a template that can have itself be an argument?
Like foo<foo>
 
I don't remember how class name injection works but it might be possible, yes.
 
Ell
@Pubby I thought so? See CRTP edit: nevermind I'm being a noob
 
However for template<typename T> struct foo { foo<foo> f; }, if allowed, that would mean foo<foo<T>> f;.
If you mean to ask if it's possible to truly have a kind of recursion here then no it's not possible (without indirection) as template parameters are separated in 'kinds' between template template parameter and template (type) parameters.
 
But T isn't correct type
Yeah, I guess not
I'm trying to do row polymorphism with templates
 
12:47 PM
The problem is similar to declaring a function type where the return type is the function type itself btw.
In any case I recommend staying away from template template parameters and to use polymorphic functors.
(I'm assuming you don't need state for your functors.)
 
What do you mean?
 
Just a guess, but I'd encode in the template parameters the functors that the template is composed with.
So plus<> would be the usual polymorphic plus taking two arguments.
plus<times<>> would be times plus in concatenative form.
Though you'd get trees, e.g. plus<times<plus<>>, plus<>> which shouldn't be allowed.
 
Actually, it probably is with that currying thing I did
 
Eh there's more than one way to fix all of this.
 
Yeah, it just is a pain figuring out x_x
 
12:54 PM
plus<times<unary_minus<>>> => unary_minus times plus
 
Just great, now I'm ICE'ing
 
@sehe The "Exceptional C++" book looks strange, is it a translation or something?
 
all you long time professional developers... does it ever get less painful?
 
21 hours ago, by sehe
Oh and by horrendous mistake "Exceptional C++" is in German translation :) LOL. It was ok after 30-50 pages.
That should be apparent form the fact that the cover is oriented from bottom to top instead of the other books
@sehe Oh, nevermind.
@thecoshman Life is always full of pain. You just need to deal with it.
 
@FredOverflow life was cosy until I 'settled' into this cesspit
 
1:12 PM
@FredOverflow haha. I reckon you found that (chat.stackoverflow.com/…) Edit ah you did and even quoted it. I should read on before responding
@thecoshman life was cosy that's just the memory fallacy - notice how old people always tend to say 'back when .... life was good'
 
@sehe hey, don't question my judgement. I know for a fact I was a lot happier before I had to start dealing with all this shit
Why do we need to document changes to documentation about changes to proposed changes to updates to fixes to code?
Why does it have to takes weeks to find out anything about anything
 
@thecoshman constructing trees has been solved e.g. by using boost recursive variants. It's not that hard to replicate the idea yourself (although I'd need several backs-of-napkins to sketch anything 'working')
 
because the process is more important than the result?
 
and why do we have to spend so much time wader-ling around like a bloated corpse of a whale whilst claiming to be 'agile
 
@thecoshman see e.g. this answer for a very simple example:
1
A: Parsing Text to Make a Tree Data Structure

seheSpoiling the fun with an answer you can't use anyway if it's homework: A minimal implementation with Boost Spirit Qi: #include <boost/spirit/include/qi.hpp> namespace qi = boost::spirit::qi; typedef boost::make_recursive_variant< std::vector<boost::recursive_variant_>, ...

 
1:18 PM
I miss your point?
 
@thecoshman mkfifo ./vent.archive; (cat >> vent.archive& cat >> /dev/null < vent.archive&)
 
@thecoshman are you on your first job :p?
 
(much nicer than just cat >> /dev/null)
 
does it show? @Kill
 
@thecoshman ☆ " mama ♫ mia, here we go again, ♮ ♩ ... mama ♫ mia, does it show again ♪ "
 
1:26 PM
@sehe I think you've had a bit too much sun :P
 
@thecoshman Well, not all companies/departments work like that :). I have very little overhead actually
 
@thecoshman that would be more likely in your zip code area
 
@sehe I don't have zip codes... or post codes of any sort
 
2:28 PM
 
Hey @Ell, what programming languages do you know?
 
Sympathique.
 
Just finished painting over my old awful tagline on my poster for my pc repair company
It was "Fixing your computer on the cheap" :|
 
@KianMayne what's the new tagline? "Now with 50% more debt collection"?
 
@Potatoswatter Lol it's "The most affordable PC Repair company in the bay!"
 
2:34 PM
How about, "We're competent!"
 
In the bay? Operating from a boat isn't usually cheap.
But I suppose then you would have few competitors to the claim…
 
@Potatoswatter Water-cooled PCs?
 
@Potatoswatter :L You're actually the second person who's made that joke, but I live in Torbay
 
"The most affordable PC repair in the English Riviera!"
 
morning
 
2:40 PM
'Lo.
 
why do I make myself suffer so much :(
 
@DeadMG If you've got a job to do, you've got to do it well… you gotta give the other fella hell! (Or yourself.)
 
every time my father comes online he asks me about how my education is going
 
What do you say?
 
eh
not an awful lot, actually
only tell him what he already knows
 
2:44 PM
I didn't fail..... ignore the letters.
 
HEH
they don't send out letters
 
@thecoshman asperger's? don't take everything literally :)
 
Yeah, that stops at high school.
Only have those problems at college/university if parent works there.
 
Well… at some point the tuition check gets returned…
dunno if that qualifies as a letter
 
@Potatoswatter live or let die. That's a problem solving strategy
 
2:49 PM
@sehe I have that.... I think... or not.... but I act like I have it. Maybe apply duck typing and assume? Assumptions usually come back to bite me. I hope my dog stops chewing things. Back yard is a mess. I need to get out more, getting lazy. Need a new chair too. Damn.... too much to think about. Heh, I could spend some time working on my working WPF skills. I wonder if there's a license like CPA for programmers, I know Microsoft has it's cert. At least Windows 7 is a bit better.
Yeah, I probably have asperger's.
 
Hehe. Don't sweat it
 
I noticed I can focus better while buzzed, but I think slower because it's a depressant. Should I look into ADD? Maybe I have that. Oh look, a bird!?!
asperger + ADD. Deadly combination.
 
@Xaade ifconfig xaade -promisc
 
@sehe What's the flag do?
 
Promiscuous?
 
2:56 PM
@Xaade google it
 
I doubt being lost in thought forever, following by an obsession for patterns (I'm compulsive to chew the same exact amount of food on either side of my mouth, while alternating sides for each bite), having social skill deficits, having language processing deficits. And talking about totally unrelated topics during a discussion have anything to do with promiscuity. However, it can lend itself to funny situations that can imply that.
@sehe I don't ask unless my googling hits a dead end.
A day in the life of Aspergers is like getting stuck talking about the intricacies of lace on lingerie in a intimacy store, while your wife is demoing different articles of clothing for your birthday.
 
lol
 
@Xaade Let me guess. You took it ... literally? Try google ifconfig promisc or even ifconfig +"-promisc" :)
 
@sehe I'm gonna back him up on this, no idea what the joke is
 
I noticed I can focus better while buzzed, but I think slower because it's a depressant. Should I look into ADD? Maybe I have that. Oh look, a bird!?!
^^ that reminded me of running tcpdump on a network interface in promiscuous mode.
In computer networking, promiscuous mode or promisc mode is a mode for a network interface controller (NIC) that causes the NIC to pass all traffic it receives to the central processing unit (CPU) rather than just passing frames the NIC is intended to receive. This mode is normally used for packet sniffing and bridged networking for hardware virtualization. In IEEE 802 networks such as Ethernet, token ring, and Wi-Fi, and in FDDI, each frame includes a destination Media Access Control address (MAC address). In non-promiscuous mode, when a NIC receives a frame, it normally drops it unles...
Unsurpisingly, the command ifconfig xaade -promisc would serve to disable promiscuous mode on the @Xaade interface.
(the fact that -promisc tells google to exclude all matches with that keyword, probably put the lot of you on a dead end searching for it. Respell that `+"-promisc" for maximum benefit)
 
3:11 PM
But most of the things he mentioned are internal stimuli.
 
@Potatoswatter Only one word seems out of place there: "But"
 
@Xaade I think you problem is more ADHD
 
Should commit messages be present-tense ("Fixes issue 123"), past-tense ("Fixed issue 123") or imperative ("Fix issue 123")?
 
present or past is OK
imperative definitely isn't
but I personally would go for past tense
whoever's gonna read that message is sure gonna be in the future, compared t you, so it's always going to be in the past for them
 
@Maxpm I always use past, because I see it as you've written the code that fixes it and that's what the commit is
 
3:21 PM
Okay. Thanks.
 
Ell
hey guys
 
Heya.
 
Ell
@Maxpm c++ & ruby
 
@Maxpm "Fix issue 123" is first-person present tense. It's ambiguous anyway, go for brevity.
 
Ell
well - sort of, although I have been programming for about 3 years, I still can't seem to do it lols
 
3:22 PM
Although, helpful to give some hint about what issue 123 is, of course.
 
@Potatoswatter It can be either. "I fix issues." "Go fix issues."
 
nah, 123 is probably a reference to a bug database, for example
so I think that "Issue 123" is probably a fine description
 
Google Code can close issues via commit messages, which is nice. So that's why I reference the issue number.
 
@DeadMG Obviously. But you don't want to make someone do a lookup for every log entry they read.
 
Well, for example, here's a previous commit message:
 
3:24 PM
they're not going to read every entry looking for a description of a problem and not know it's issue number
 
> Added module documentation. (Fixed issue 11.)
 
And the effect of fixing the bug often says nothing about the change itself.
@DeadMG If they're starting from the bug ticket, then there's no point in mentioning it in the change since they already have the number. If they're starting from the log itself, then the list of numbers is totally unhelpful without a lot of mostly useless background research.
 
why would you ever start from the log? that's just a dumb way of looking for the fix of a given issue
 
The entry should offer what was changed and a one-sentence summary of how. "When jiggering(), do the foo() before the bar()."
@DeadMG Ah, because there's only one way that programmers ever approach code or problem-solving. I see.
 
search bug database: O(1)
 
3:29 PM
So, what use is the log at all? It only has back-edges to the bug reports that led you there in the first place.
 
view every log entry: O(n)
oh, I'm not saying that it's not silly just to list that as the commit message
merely that not knowing the issue number you're looking for is silly
 
Often you browse code independently of any bugs/issues that might have numbers. Or you're looking for the change(s) relating to a particular line of code, to find the issues that happened before.
 
18 hours ago, by sbi
Is anyone here from London and interested to meet? I'll be in London for a few days beginning of March, and I will have three days there to spend on my own.
I've seen a similar message once before in my life, at a site I don't want to mention.
 
lol
 
_meet_ shouldn't really be italicised and emboldened.
 
3:33 PM
@IntermediateHacker or would that be meat and don't want to spend on my own?
 
lol.
damn, bye everyone. I have to go study. :'(
 
@IntermediateHacker Heh, you and your discipline. Enjoy your success )v[
 
Don't know whether my demo screenshots would advertise for for against my demo code snippet here:
1
Q: Tool to show assembly dependencies

SvenGI begun work in a new project with lots of assemblies in a single solution. I am not familiar yet with the assembly dependencies and having a hard time figuring out which assembly depends on another. Do you know any tools that are capable to show a dependency list or better a visual graph of it?...

 
Anyone know why this doesn't work?
 
@StackedCrooked print<int> see my answer earlier today: (link)
4
A: Using boost string algorithm predicate with a bind

sehe no matching function for call to ‘bind(<unresolved overloaded function type>, boost::arg<1>&, const char [2])’ So,... resolve <unresolved overloaded function type>: remove_copy_if(test.begin(), test.end(), out_it, boost::bind( boost::algorithm::starts_with<s...

 
3:45 PM
Alright.
 
Or, from a similar question just today, []( int i ){ print( i ); }
 
@Potatoswatter I think that is the same linked question :) I list a number of approaches to this theme
 
What are the benefits of being a member of Usenet, @Potatoswatter ?
 
@DzekTrek Do negative benefits count? Usenet is a huge pain in the ass.
 
Why is that so?
I mean, why would you join in something that gives you nothing but troubles?
 
3:48 PM
@sehe another one:
1
A: How to use std::log as a functional?

sellibitzeLike Xeo explained, it is possible to get it to work even when the function is overloaded using an explicit cast. However, since you're using std::function already (which is a C++11 feature), you might as well just use a lambda expression as initializer: function<double(double)> fLog = [](...

@DzekTrek Because comp.std.c++ has or had a kind of official status.
 
@Potatoswatter Amazing. It must be international let's-bind-to-function-template-instantiations day (or actually overloaded functions)
 
Everyone is brushing up on their binding to give higher-order functions to their valentines.
 
@sehe That day "Templates in c++ day" is for 2 days, not today.
 
Serial downvoter at it, 7 downvotes at the same time roughly:
 
@AlfPSteinbach Very organized criminal SO gang.
 
3:53 PM
so... subshells are nice
 
Also, SomeOne flagged me for rudeness when I told them not to close answerable questions, so I got a rudeness warning from the moderators. A guy named Will, who I think was the one shutting me out for one week for writing "cheers & hth."
I got that mod (creepy) on my neck, it seems.
Just reporting...
 
@AlfPSteinbach Just report it to the BigBrother, they will handle with him/it on their own way. ;)
 
meh
write it on meta
bwah, meta police :(
 
@AlfPSteinbach well, no one said mods were guaranteed to be competent
they're the meta police, they know about rep and how to get it. Actual experience with SO is an optional extra
 
the system for choosing mods is not proof against stupid mods
 
3:56 PM
@AlfPSteinbach wow. What was it you said? (lol)
 
How should we check and balance against rep whores? Oh, I know, a popularity contest!
 
@AlfPSteinbach was it that beautiful "rtfm. cheers & hth"?)
 
@TonyTheLion on the contrary. It's a nice feedback loop, whereby those who hang out on meta trying to become moderators (and/or be employed by SE) get to decide, and thus it selects specifically for that kind of stupidity
 
@jalf meh, the suckage of SO
 
3:59 PM
@Abyx meh. "cheers & hth" ~= "rtfm. cheers & hth", no difference
 
@sehe I can't see it in activity, I think it must have been deleted. But it was like, closing a question as unanswerable when it is manifestly answerable, are you demented or incompetent, and in latter case, please don't vote to close questions. I also named each of the close-voters.
 

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